: Northstar performance Upgrades!!!



Cjk16
09-21-06, 10:32 PM
Hey! im new to CadillacForums, but i've had this idea that i cant get out of my head. I want to put a 4.6L Northstar into my 1967 Camaro (For Sale BTW), and couple it with a 6spd tranny to the rear. I have a couple questions first... Can this be done?!?! (with a reasonable budget)

Lets say it is possable, now i have a stock Northstar with 300hp tops. What can i do to get it 400-450HP????? i've looked around for a while but cant find ANY aftermarket cams or heads. What products could i get to throw my HP way up there???

danbuc
09-21-06, 10:48 PM
If by reasonable...you mean upwards of $5-7k than maybe. chrfab (http://www.chrfab.com) is to place to find the parts you'll need to make the power you want. With enough money anything's possible. For the money it'll cost you to procure an engine, build it up, find a trans and adapt the bellhousing to the block (one bolt is on the wrong spot, and I'll take it you'll be using a tremec), and sort out the rest of the stuff......you'd be better of just build up a nice 350, o rmaybe a 383 stroker. Hell, stuff a 502 in there for good measure. Granted they don't have the "Cool" factor that an all aluminum DOHC motor does, but they'd be checper to build as far as total project cost goes. As I said before...anything's possible with enough money. Good Luck!

Cjk16
09-21-06, 11:29 PM
How much do you think a nice set of cam's will increase the HP??

Also, what bolt on mods would be best for most HP increase...and how much?? (Headers and exharust, throttle body, free flow intake, etc.)

eldorado1
09-22-06, 06:06 AM
best hp would be cams, then headers and exhaust. That will get you your 400hp right there.

Cjk16
09-22-06, 09:25 AM
What kinds of mods would i have to make to the computer to let me run the engine like that in another car?? Or does someone make an aftermarket wiring harness??

eldorado1
09-22-06, 11:07 AM
You'd need a new computer that would work with the cams. I can supply one for $150. Just like a holley or electromotive, you would need to tune it yourself. However, I can refer you to someone who can do it for you for $50...

I'm working on getting a plug and play harness together, but it will be a while.

wydopnthrtl
09-22-06, 11:12 AM
I don't believe that any off the shelf controls are available. Some peolple have put northstars into dune buggys. Might want to find out what they have done.

IMO a northstar would only make sense in a 1st gen camaro **if** used in a road coarse type of car. It really comes alive in the upper rpms where the 4v heads can live up to thier potential.

In a street driven or drag type of car it would be like a fish out of water IMO.

If you like the high rpms.. best IMO would be a high revving 327 (big bore short stroke).

Rich

danbuc
09-22-06, 06:44 PM
I always wanted to throw a l37 motor into a 68 Z28 Camaro, and hook it up to a nice 6spd, and add some niceer handling suspension. With the manual, and the lighterweight of the vehicle, it would be a blast, even wiht a stock N*.

white97deville
09-22-06, 09:46 PM
It would definitely be a cool car with the Nstar in the old Camaro. You would love the upper rpm power especially if you added the aftermarket cams, etc. I think you would be very dissappointed in the torque dept.

Cjk16
09-23-06, 06:31 AM
im not looking for an untra high preformance car. a lot of it is the 'cool' factor. Think about it, a northstar in a '67 camaro!! now who wouldnt like that?!?!

codewize
09-24-06, 07:53 AM
I think we've all agreed that the Northstar comes out of the factory pretty well tweaked. Anything above and beyond is going to cost you substantial money, The two things that provide gains in a stock vehicle are exhaust and a GOOD CAI.

Other than that the Northstar is what it is unless you want to spend a good chunk of change.

I guess the 80mm TB works also but you can't really find them now. The fore mentioned chrfab (http://www.chrfab.com/) is the place to look. I agree with a nice 383 stroker.

Cjk16
09-24-06, 10:34 PM
I have stumbled across something that is called MegaSquirt... i guess its used to control engine computers (i think only fuel injectors and ignition). Would this work for a northstar or would i need a lot of other stuff??

danbuc
09-25-06, 06:35 AM
You could use the MegaSquirt to contorl the N*. I think CHRFab used the Holley Commander system on there engines. I believe they have either a complete system or software package you can by tailored to the N*. From what I've heard though, it still takes a little tweaking on your end to get it just right. At least you'd have a poitn to start form though, instead of beginning form scratch with a raw, unprogrammed computer.

eldorado1
09-25-06, 08:46 AM
From what I've heard though, it still takes a little tweaking on your end to get it just right.

Understatement of the year.

The file they give you is a piece of sh**. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a generic V8 cal. Mine wouldn't even stay running.

Holley commander, and megasquirt, I can not recommend. Aside from the point that you would be essentially tuning from scratch, they are very primitive in terms of EFI. Comparing a GM computer to a megasquirt or Holley is like comparing EFI to carb. I could rattle off a list of features that GM computers have that the others don't but I won't bore you with details...

Actually, I should give Holley some credit. They're the reason I threw their computer in the trash can (literally, until I came to my senses and sold it for $400), and started creating an alternative. If it wasn't for them, my car would still be stalling and I wouldn't have a better computer. LOL!

danbuc
09-25-06, 05:08 PM
Just curious...what are you running now since the holley didn't work out?

eldorado1
09-25-06, 05:25 PM
I reprogrammed a GM computer to work with the northstar. It doesn't have all the features the original N* computer has (like sequential injection, TCS, ABS, auto tranny, etc), but it's light years ahead of the holley and megasquirt. AND, I don't have to have a speedometer interface (like the dakota digital SGI-5), because that's taken care of by the computer.

As I've mentioned on other forums, specifically with the northstar engine, the computer drops the AFR to 10.5:1 after extended periods of WOT time to cool the pistons so they don't melt. Anybody who has tuned an engine before knows that is extremely rich. You do not want to be running at 10.5:1 all the time, which would be necessary on the holley and megasquirt, to keep those pistons safe. However, with my computer I set it up so that after 15 seconds of wide open throttle, it automatically drops the commanded AFR to 10.5:1.

GM engineered all of their computers to perform in all conditions. Holley, etc leave out a lot of little features to simplify it so a general wrench head can work it. Megasquirt was built by 2 hobbyists, so I would consider it to be one step below a Holley.

Cjk16
09-25-06, 09:55 PM
So how did you reprogram the computer?? Do you still do it and are they for sale?? (I may be a possable buyer in the near future... hint hint)

eldorado1
09-26-06, 08:27 AM
-Hard work and determination
-Yes

Cjk16
09-26-06, 09:31 PM
SO how well does your reprogramed computer work? Does it keep all the cool stuff the northstar was offered with? And will it let the engine work at 100% of its potential with some tuning??

eldorado1
09-26-06, 09:37 PM
SO how well does your reprogramed computer work? Does it keep all the cool stuff the northstar was offered with? And will it let the engine work at 100% of its potential with some tuning??

-My car's daily driven.

-What "cool stuff" are you referring to?

-Yes. And I did the tuning for you if you have a stock 300hp engine.

Cjk16
09-26-06, 11:03 PM
-My car's daily driven.

-What "cool stuff" are you referring to?

-Yes. And I did the tuning for you if you have a stock 300hp engine.

features such as the 'limp home' when the car shuts down cylenders if it over heats. I dunno, is there anything that the N* does that no other engines do??


Also, does the computer run all the gauges or would normal mechanical speedo's, tacks, oil pressure gauges, etc. work??

eldorado1
09-27-06, 08:53 AM
features such as the 'limp home' when the car shuts down cylenders if it over heats. I dunno, is there anything that the N* does that no other engines do??


Also, does the computer run all the gauges or would normal mechanical speedo's, tacks, oil pressure gauges, etc. work??

Limp home mode if a sensor goes out - yes, but it does not do the overheating shut down.

Computer has output signals for speedo and tach. You'd have to change the oil sender switch for a gauge sender if you want an oil pressure gauge that works.

Dooman
09-27-06, 09:13 AM
How about the computer controls that were used for the ski-boat applications? I remember seeing the Northstar in magazine ads. I be that is a simple set-up...

jpndave
03-04-07, 05:25 PM
Any updates on this? eldorado1, are you still doing the computers? The system won't allow me to email you yet.

eldorado1
03-04-07, 06:09 PM
sent you a PM

CadillacSTS42005
03-06-07, 01:29 PM
so eldo if you excuse my ignorance if youve dont all this why not make a step up and hack the obd2 N* pcm for performance in our cars and make some MAJOR bucks?

eldorado1
03-06-07, 02:13 PM
Because it can't be done or would take a team of programmers working round the clock for a year $$$.

On top of that, it wouldn't be worth anything. You might gain some horsepower by advancing the timing, requiring premium, and leaning it out a bit.... but you're talking 5-10hp. I tried selling that amount of hp for $200, and it didn't work out. Nobody here is interested in cams. Nobody here is interested in boost (because it obviously costs too much), and secondly there are plenty of ways around the PCM restrictions anyways.

CadillacSTS42005
03-06-07, 02:19 PM
imho you should of had a line up of buyers with a deposit before wasting time going into production of the TBs
For what its worth now you should do it because you have a line of buyers who want them, i need a new one, 99classilac asked about one, and i know of several others who asked before your TB thread got locked up

and i wouldnt say NOBODYS interested in upgrading shit, i spent a grand on my chip which modded shift points and with exhaust its supposed to gain 40 hp, of which if you watch my 0-60s and drags its obvious that it did work and knocked almost a full second off my 0-60s....

Raze
03-06-07, 08:01 PM
Eldo,

I was your last customer in the TB department and trust me I'm going to have fun w/my Eldo doing a full teardown w/experiments on anything I can think of. The cams, heads are first on the list, etc once I finish gradschool (May) and put my old Eldo back on the road (just needs suspension/brakes), I figure by the end of this year I'll have the heads off my N* and cams prolly from CHRfab in the mail, unless you can/know someone who can grind them cheaper.

I'm not someone who starts things and doesn't finish and I know how long this project will take and how much it's going to cost, I've rebuilt an 86 Merkur XR4Ti, engine, trans, stand alone Megasquirt, metal/body work, upgraded fuel system, suspension, brakes, etc, etc.

Don't give up on all of us

CadillacSTS42005
03-06-07, 11:38 PM
dang Raze you got his last tb
i shot mine, lemme buy it and you can buy another one seein as its gonna take you awhile to get your project movin hahha
seriously thought Eldo1 i think you need to make a comback tour with those TBS 10 ppl have been askin for them already, and im sure at least 3 of them me includes have the money waiting heck i burned 1k on 15 hp ill gladly spend 2 hun for 8 ahhahahah

Raze
03-07-07, 02:39 PM
ETC,

I'll sell you my TB when you get me the details of who you sold that jetchip to :)

CadillacSTS42005
03-07-07, 03:18 PM
i got the details in hand you wanna sell the 80 mm tb and well talk deal....

CadillacSTS42005
03-09-07, 06:20 PM
wonder where eldos been he hasnt chimed in yet or said how he wont make the tbs again :stirpot:
lol
sry