Ford. At least Ford got one thing right in the last week. Even though the plant in Michigan where it has been built will close, Ford announced that they were not discontinuing production of the Lincoln Town Car but instead would move production to a plant in St. Thomas, Ontario - the same facility where the Ford Crown Victoria police car is built. The last living link (albeit a shaky one) to what the Lincoln brand once represented at its peak will continue on a while longer it seems - and so will the profits. All together now - Halle-frickin-luja!

--Autoextremist.com

Yay! Ford hasn't (totally) sold out to the "Japanese Trend"!

I just hope they continue to differentiate between the Crown Vic/Marquis and the Town Car.

The TC should always be a LWB luxury sedan with extra sound-deadening.

My buddy at the Ford dealership said he only sells a handfull of Crown Vics every year, and it's to really OLD people who trade in their OLD Crown Vics with 30,000 miles on a new one. Each one is a special order. He refuses to stock Crown Vics and he tried to sell each of them a 500 instead. No takers.

I just hope they continue to differentiate between the Crown Vic/Marquis and the Town Car.

Me too. That's the biggest problem with the Town Cars and Fleetwoods. They never felt that much different or better than the Caprices or Crown Vics.


My buddy at the Ford dealership said he only sells a handfull of Crown Vics every year, and it's to really OLD people who trade in their OLD Crown Vics with 30,000 miles on a new one. Each one is a special order. He refuses to stock Crown Vics and he tried to sell each of them a 500 instead. No takers.

That sounds about right. I don't think I've ever seen a brand new Crown Vic at any of the local Ford dealers, but I see loads of brand new Grand Marquises at the LM dealer I drive by to work each day.

Great news! But I agree that I hope they differentiate enough... I love the Town Car...

The Town Car needs a refreshing exterior redesign. Nothing too radical, just something new.

I agree. Something more along the lines of the 90-97 model. I never liked the 98+ style. Too round and bulbussy for me. Town Cars need to be square, low and loooong!

I agree. Something more along the lines of the 90-97 model. I never liked the 98+ style. Too round and bulbussy for me. Town Cars need to be square, low and loooong!

Exactly what I was thinking, too. Sharper lines. I think if they went retro to the 60's Continentals they'd find a lot of buyers. They don't have to do suicide doors, but something along the lines of that grille and taillights.

I'd almost be more inclined to buy a somewhat retro-looking Towncar than I would a Fleetwood.....oh wait, we don't have a Fleetwood anymore. Towncar it is!

I want a Town Car "Sport" with a stealth package. No changes to the body, but offer a stiffer suspension, sportier seats, big brakes, and forced induction. Offer it only in black. Sleeper!

They're only going to be making them there. It's not like they're going to change anything about it at the same time that will make it like a Grand Marquis. I like the new Town Cars better then the 1990-1997 ones. Those ones just look old. The new ones look a lot more classier and they still look like a new car when you see them driving around.

They're only going to be making them there. It's not like they're going to change anything about it at the same time that will make it like a Grand Marquis. I like the new Town Cars better then the 1990-1997 ones. Those ones just look old. The new ones look a lot more classier and they still look like a new car when you see them driving around.

:yeah: the newer body style is very classy looking. and if you guys havent noticed, they did square it off a little in the last two models. one of the most beautiful cars i have seen as of late.

If they make it look like that Continental Concept of '02, it will sell millions.

Regardless, I think they should make a Town Car Sport, and make it like a Marauder or Crown Vic Sport. Base engine should be atleast 270hp, sport model should have 300hp+ 5.4 SOHC V8 in it. It needs to be body on frame and rear wheel drive, length should be over 210". Should have four, five and six seater configurations. Should be mushy or firm, depending on configuration. I've got more ideas too...

Now, from an owner.

My 2003 T.C. Limited is equipped with every option the factory offered.

Likes: The absolute smoothest, quietest ride made. Zero wind noise,zero squeeks zero rattles. Very comfortable seats, but very little "contour" to the fronts, thereby offering little "Sport" feel, nor lateral support. You sit ON THEM, rather than IN THEM.

Silky smooooth transmission (4-Speed Auto), feeling it shift only when you "Get on it". After 3 years & 12,000 miles, it has not caused me to take it back for anything that needs adjustment, much less fiixing! Everthing works silently and perfect.
The braking is terrific. No fade, no squeeking, no protesting.

The radio has loads of unique features, and a cassette player AND a 6-Disc CD Changer. The steering wheel controls are redundant to the radio/cd/cassette and you never really HAVE to touch the dash unit.

Nifty feature. The hood. You pull the under dash release and lift the hood 6 inches and it then raises itself ! The trunk is power opening AND power closing from a fully opened position via the key fob. You can never be locked out or lock your keys inside, as it has the key pad on the door.

There is intrusion radar on the car's ceiling, near the R.V. Mirror, tha scans the interior, If I leave her parked with windows down, & door locked, and someone reaches INTO the car, the radar is broken & the car alarm goes off !!

The exterior mirrors are heated, power and have nightime dimming feature, as does the interior R.V. mirror. EVERYTHING is tied into a central memory and when you press MEM everything goes back to the original settings for 2 people.

The headlights not only offer infinate settings for delay, after you leave the car, you can ALSO leave on one Cornering Lamp !

It's a really enjoyable car.

What it lacks:

P--O--W--E--R !! !! !! At 4,200 pounds, the 239 H.P. V-8 moves it out fine, and there's no problem from a ZERO start, BUT there is simply a very very weak passing gear or kickdown. You never fell that kick in the butt of raw power. It's a leisurely car for a "proper" ride, with hoards on creature comforts.
It does, however, corner exceptionally great since the addition of a new rear suspension system in 2003. It's cornering defies its mass.
(and most importantly, if not THE most important thing of all......
the doors sound GRrreat when they close) !

Very comfortable seats, but very little "contour" to the fronts, thereby offering little "Sport" feel, nor lateral support. You sit ON THEM, rather than IN THEM.

You can never be locked out or lock your keys inside, as it has the key pad on the door.


(and most importantly, if not THE most important thing of all......
the doors sound GRrreat when they close) !

1) Why did they quit making comfortable seats like that? Everybody wants tight buckets today, which makes no sense. The size of the average American ass is growing at an alarming rate.

2) I know a guy who locked himself out of his Explorer. He intentionally locked everything inside when he went running at a track. He left the headlights on and the battery ran down. The keypad didn't work when he got back.

3) Something like that closes the deal for me. You can tell a lot about a car just by slamming the door.

(and most importantly, if not THE most important thing of all......
the doors sound GRrreat when they close) !

I hate the way the rear doors sound when you close them on my '92...tinny and rattely.

I want a Town Car "Sport" with a stealth package. No changes to the body, but offer a stiffer suspension, sportier seats, big brakes, and forced induction. Offer it only in black. Sleeper!
Unfortunately, Ford tried to make a rip snorting version of the Grand Marquis called the Marauder. Equipped with a quad cam 4.6 (300hp), bucket seats, firm(er) suspension, and stainless dual exhuast, the car hardly made an impact. So it is unlikely that we will ever see a 'sport' Town Car.

They may have gone for "rip snorting" but low 15s in 2003-2004 isn't anywhere close to what it needed to be for anyone to take notice.

I for one am thrilled that the Town Car isn't dying as I am a partner in a Limo company. The sad reality is, these cars only survive because of fleet sales. Very few actual private buyers buy them anymore. The Fleetwood Brougham was a far better car than the Town Car and died off for a reason.. nobody bought them anymore. It's a shame the broughams are way too old for us to use, they were better cars.

I will say that the TCs are, transmissions aside, very durable and reliable cars, and as long as Ford has been making them they ought to be. Sandy's right.. they are amazingly underpowered and, IMO, the brakes are a total joke. The sad reality is, the market for them just continues to shrink.. more are sold these days to fleets or for commercial use than anything else. Here in the NY City area you see TONS of them being used as Limos and Gypsy cabs. It's uncommon to see them with standard plates on them.

I want a Town Car "Sport" with a stealth package. No changes to the body, but offer a stiffer suspension, sportier seats, big brakes, and forced induction. Offer it only in black. Sleeper!
Yeah like thats gonna happen. What are you smokin man?. Can I have some? Town Car is a piece of crap, always has and always will. I owned several Fords in the past and vowed to never own one again!. GM, Germany, or nothing!.

You are wrong, and do not know what-of you speak.
Town Cars are so far from "crap" it's laughable.
How could a brand (Town Car) survive from 1979 thru 2007
if it were "crap" ?

In NYC (or any major metro area) it's an everyday occurance to see examples with 200,000 + miles on them, with original engine. Rust? You'll seldom if ever see rust on them. Wiseguy2; how can you say the brakes on them are bad? The brakes on my '03 are the best brakes, with the surest feeling of any car I've ever owned.

Regarding a "Sport" version. It will never happen. Recall the 1992/1993 DeVille Touring Sedan ? It sold 1,100 copies, when the deVille(s) of those years sold 150,000 examples. Allthough there is a loyal following of devoted owners to the Marauder, in sales #s it pooped.

If ya want a really rare car...
2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX with the Sport Handling & Performance Package, and you'll have a 2007 Marauder ! All Black, Buckets & console, black out grille mouldings, a luxury police car.
Percieved production? 2% of all 2007 Crown Vics !

Town Car is a piece of crap, always has and always will. I owned several Fords in the past and vowed to never own one again!. GM, Germany, or nothing!.

Yah dude, ya can't really say it's a POS unless you've owned one, or known somebody whos had one that was a total POS.

The Marauder died because it was underpowered. Had it been $4k more and been Supercharged, it would have been a hit.

Sandy.. lemme know when you want me to throw you the keys to the M5.. the Town Cars have atrocious brakes (As well as steering that has the feel of Jell-O Pudding, and a suspension that makes me feel as secure as standing in the middle of Lagos with $100 bills taped to me).

I took one home one night and had to run into Closter for cigarettes. I took it for a fast run down Closter Dock Road and the brakes were fading badly. They are also woefully inadequate to stop a car of that weight.

I'm also used to driving sports cars. For what it is, a big luxury Sedan, the Town Car's fine. Compared to any other modern luxury car, it's a joke IMO.

I'm also used to driving sports cars. For what it is, a big luxury Sedan, the Town Car's fine. Compared to any other modern luxury car, it's a joke IMO.

Well that's pretty much true, ya can't really compare a full sized 6 passenger luxury sedan to a modern luxury sedan. The Town Car is the last of a style, alone in the current automotive world. Nothing else compares to it anymore..

I dunno.. I mean, my STS is a big car and it handles and stops very well, ditto my 740iL. I think Ford can do a hell of a lot better.

Yes, but the STS and 740iL are european style luxury sedans. They're meant to go fast easily, stop and handle very well. The Town Car is your typical american luxo cruiser, softly sprung, under dampened. Two totally different types of luxury cars.

Lincoln's answer to the BMW's was the LS. If you drove one of those, you might be impressed.

In NYC (or any major metro area) it's an everyday occurance to see examples with 200,000 + miles on them, with original engine. Rust? You'll seldom if ever see rust on them. Wiseguy2; how can you say the brakes on them are bad? The brakes on my '03 are the best brakes, with the surest feeling of any car I've ever owned.

I have seen many Town Cars with a s**tload of miles on them myself. Those cars do hold up pretty well.

Its amazing to see all the 200-300k retired livery cars on eBay. I want one of them.

Yah dude, ya can't really say it's a POS unless you've owned one, or known somebody whos had one that was a total POS.I never did own a Town car or had the desire to but I do have a neighbor with a cherry '96 model with 70k or so miles on it and has had a lot of electrical and transmission problems. Calling it POS was wrong, whenever I post at night I'm usually drinking and I tend to be more honest about the way I feel but also more willing to offend others. I dont like them more for what they represent and the people that drive them (seniors). In Florida they are just about everywhere usually with some real short old woman that needs pillow cushions on the seat to see over the dashboard. I suppose my feelings about them are more emotional than about the car itself. Its like a guy buying a VW cabrio, it may be practical, dependable, etc.........but will always be seen as a gay mans car. I drive a Fleetwood, perhaps I should just shut up.

I never did own a Town car or had the desire to but I do have a neighbor with a cherry '96 model with 70k or so miles on it and has had a lot of electrical and transmission problems. Calling it POS was wrong, whenever I post at night I'm usually drinking and I tend to be more honest about the way I feel but also more willing to offend others. I dont like them more for what they represent and the people that drive them (seniors).

Well that's pretty much the same image I have of the 1990-97 Town Cars. Those cars are the quintessential granny car to me, the kind of cars an older couple would drive down to FL for winter, then back up to Connecticut to their summer home in the mountains.


I suppose my feelings about them are more emotional than about the car itself. Its like a guy buying a VW cabrio, it may be practical, dependable, etc.........but will always be seen as a gay mans car.
Well yeah, that's the image associated with VW Cabrios, I don't know how that started, but it's pretty hard to shake an image like that.

I'm thrilled. The Town Car is an awesome vehicle for what it was built to do. I owned a '79 Town Coupe and it was an excellent car, I wish I still had it. I have never had bad luck with Ford products. It all depends on how you take care of it, how you drive it, and sure, the car's "genetics" have something to do with it, I suppose. I've never had issues though.

JRau in central Iowa

Junk? Hrrm. Before Lincoln released these new Volvo/Mazda derived models, it came in THIRD in JD Power's 2005 Vehicle Dependability Survey with TWO AMERICAN designs (Town Car/Navigator), and one derived from a Jaguar (LS). Lincoln came in THIRD behind Lexus, who has been the leader for 12 straight years, and Porsche, one of the all time paradigms of precision engineering. It came in 9th in 2000, Cadillac 11th. Lincoln was 4th in 2001, Cadillac 8th. Lincoln was 11th in 2002, Cadillac 8th. 2003 their survey only included whole companies, not individual makes. 2004 - Same. 2006 - Lincoln slips to 11th, while Cadillac moves up to 4th. On a side note: Porsche slipped from 2nd in 2005 to 22nd in 2K6! So, for most years, Lincoln has beaten Cadillac, and as far as those 'fancy germans' such as BMW and Mercedes, they usually rank mid pack or lower. The only two makes who actually rank reliably are Lexus, who has been 1st place 12 years running, and Buick, who always seems to rank 3rd or 4th. For all the VDS results http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/awards/industry/search.asp?CatID=1

For what it's worth......

How many of you guys can recall your Grandparents? Perhaps 1 or 2 may have been senile or in a nursing home, but I'm fairly sure you can recall perhaps 1 or 2 others.
Well, I have no freakin idea what a grandparent represents, nor how & why one would have whatever feelings towards such people that they might have. This is because, I never had any Grandparents, because the Nazis gas'd them in germany along with the other 6 mil. My folks were teens and escaped under piles & piles & piles of garbage, naked, on a truck headed out ..... but, it was a "fake" truck, with young teens, buried under piles of trash, and smuggled them out of germany. They made their way to Italy, where they became citizens and lived there until they each made their way to America, where they eventually met.
I would walk, take a bus and/or drive a Ford Pinto, Chevy Vega or the like,
before I'd ever set foot into a Nazi car, such as a BMw or a Miserable Bendz. or a Porch, or a WeeFolksVaggon. They can keep 'em and I'll keep my Lincoln, and Caddy, thank you. Everytime I see that 3 point "star" I vividly recall seeing it ALSO on the trucks that cleared out the dead from the gas chambers to remove the dead bodies to make room for more.
I saw photos in text books, in movies and in old old movies from the late 1930s, NOT in Motor Trend.
Sure they are good, maybe great cars.....but I'm keeping my $$$ right here in America & not sending it off to an off shore corporation, who today employees the offspring of those that were masterminds of the Halocaust. The apple doesn't fall from the tree, in most cases.

Its amazing to see all the 200-300k retired livery cars on eBay. I want one of them.

Eww! You don't know whos :vomit: in there after all those years...could have even been me!

For what it's worth......

How many of you guys can recall your Grandparents? Perhaps 1 or 2 may have been senile or in a nursing home, but I'm fairly sure you can recall perhaps 1 or 2 others.
Well, I have no freakin idea what a grandparent represents, nor how & why one would have whatever feelings towards such people that they might have. This is because, I never had any Grandparents, because the Nazis gas'd them in germany along with the other 6 mil. My folks were teens and escaped under piles & piles & piles of garbage, naked, on a truck headed out ..... but, it was a "fake" truck, with young teens, buried under piles of trash, and smuggled them out of germany. They made their way to Italy, where they became citizens and lived there until they each made their way to America, where they eventually met.
I would walk, take a bus and/or drive a Ford Pinto, Chevy Vega or the like,
before I'd ever set foot into a Nazi car, such as a BMw or a Miserable Bendz. or a Porch, or a WeeFolksVaggon. They can keep 'em and I'll keep my Lincoln, and Caddy, thank you. Everytime I see that 3 point "star" I vividly recall seeing it ALSO on the trucks that cleared out the dead from the gas chambers to remove the dead bodies to make room for more.
I saw photos in text books, in movies and in old old movies from the late 1930s, NOT in Motor Trend.
Sure they are good, maybe great cars.....but I'm keeping my $$$ right here in America & not sending it off to an off shore corporation, who today employees the offspring of those that were masterminds of the Halocaust. The apple doesn't fall from the tree, in most cases.


Sandy, that's a very powerful story, and I can surely understand why you would never want to own any german car. And if I was of jewish backround, I'd be right there with ya! I did a project/report on Mercedes Benz for my 9th grade German class, and I remember showing pics of the late '30s Benzes that all of the high ranking Nazi's had, so I do know how they relate to that part of German history.

As for me, I won't buy Japanese cars (especially Mitsubishi) because of what they did to us in WWII, among other reasons. It would be a stab in the back of millions of WWII veterans and POW's and war fatalities if I went out and bought a car made by a company who made the airplanes that bombed pearl harbor and gave them such hard opposition in the war in the pacific.

For what it's worth......

How many of you guys can recall your Grandparents? Perhaps 1 or 2 may have been senile or in a nursing home, but I'm fairly sure you can recall perhaps 1 or 2 others.
Well, I have no freakin idea what a grandparent represents, nor how & why one would have whatever feelings towards such people that they might have. This is because, I never had any Grandparents, because the Nazis gas'd them in germany along with the other 6 mil. My folks were teens and escaped under piles & piles & piles of garbage, naked, on a truck headed out ..... but, it was a "fake" truck, with young teens, buried under piles of trash, and smuggled them out of germany. They made their way to Italy, where they became citizens and lived there until they each made their way to America, where they eventually met.
I would walk, take a bus and/or drive a Ford Pinto, Chevy Vega or the like,
before I'd ever set foot into a Nazi car, such as a BMw or a Miserable Bendz. or a Porch, or a WeeFolksVaggon. They can keep 'em and I'll keep my Lincoln, and Caddy, thank you. Everytime I see that 3 point "star" I vividly recall seeing it ALSO on the trucks that cleared out the dead from the gas chambers to remove the dead bodies to make room for more.
I saw photos in text books, in movies and in old old movies from the late 1930s, NOT in Motor Trend.
Sure they are good, maybe great cars.....but I'm keeping my $$$ right here in America & not sending it off to an off shore corporation, who today employees the offspring of those that were masterminds of the Halocaust. The apple doesn't fall from the tree, in most cases.
Well well seems the emotion thing bears to you as well. I see "seniors" when I see or think Town Car and you see Nazi's when you see or hear Mercedes or other German cars. Its all good (or bad?). Keep in mind though, Hitler isn't building German cars cause he's dead. He was directly responsible for VW however. I do have many Jewish friends driving German cars. Weird.

As far as the Town Car goes...

Ford could easily give it more power, which, IMO it badly needs. Doesn't the Mustang use a 4.6L? Hmm?

Brakes are easy to fix, The car needs larger calipers and discs.. it will help tremendously.

Remember, Ford amortized the development costs of the Town car eons ago, these cars cost comparatively peanuts for them to make.

I'm also Jewish and I am well aware of the horrors of the Holocaust.. but the Nazis also used an awful lot of Opel and Blitz trucks (GM) and, well, Henry Ford was a serious Nazi sympathizer.

I agree. The T/C needs more power. The SOHC 4.6L it uses is fine by 1995 standards, but a lot has changed in the last 11 years and it's time to go for the DOHC 4.6 or maybe the SOHC 5.4 (if not the DOHC 5.4!) :thumbsup:

Read my post here http://www.lincolnforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1835
for the future of the Town Car. They plan to build/sell it in its current form until sales are no more. After that, Lincoln will be virtually indistuinguishable from Mazda/Volvo. Hard to believe from a company that built itselves to be something for Cadillac to fear from cars like this:
26022
Or this:
26021
I said it before, but I'll say it again, My, how the mighty have fallen :helpless:

I like the Mark III a lot more than the Mark II you pictured. Something about those extravagant lines....

I know I work in the retirement home industry, so I'm probably climbing on a soap box here, but it always amazes me how many young people look down on "seniors." These people, now in their 80's and 90's are the greatest generation in American history. They have accomplished so much, made every one of our lives more comfortable (through all the inventions they came up with), not to mention being able to enjoy the freedoms we now think are "owed us." They lived through 2 world wars, the great Depression, the Dust Bowl, and many other hardships. Now they are the brunt of "ol' geezer" jokes and we stereotype them as to what they drive, how slow they are, what happens to their physical bodies, etc.

I'm 45 years old, and I love large American luxury cars--the land yachts. I definately don't consider myself "old." It's never right to stereotype people. I have many residents on my retirement campus with brand new little sports cars, plain jane mid-size sedans, and yes, some have the large American luxury cars. While there may be a correlation between large luxury car preference for older adults, it is unfair to stereotype them.

We all need to be more thankful for what that generation did for this country, and watch our sarcasm simply because they are doing what all of us are doing every day--aging! Trust me, we ALL will be there one day.

Something to think about......

JRau in central Iowa

1. Seniors kick ass.

2. The DOHC 4.6 would be a horrible choice for the Town Car unless you had 3.73s or better in the back and a 6spd auto. Anything with a lazy, flat powerband like a 5.4 or even better 3v 6.8L V10 would be a better choice.

I know I work in the retirement home industry, so I'm probably climbing on a soap box here, but it always amazes me how many young people look down on "seniors." These people, now in their 80's and 90's are the greatest generation in American history. They have accomplished so much, made every one of our lives more comfortable (through all the inventions they came up with), not to mention being able to enjoy the freedoms we now think are "owed us." They lived through 2 world wars, the great Depression, the Dust Bowl, and many other hardships. Now they are the brunt of "ol' geezer" jokes and we stereotype them as to what they drive, how slow they are, what happens to their physical bodies, etc.

I'm 45 years old, and I love large American luxury cars--the land yachts. I definately don't consider myself "old." It's never right to stereotype people. I have many residents on my retirement campus with brand new little sports cars, plain jane mid-size sedans, and yes, some have the large American luxury cars. While there may be a correlation between large luxury car preference for older adults, it is unfair to stereotype them.

We all need to be more thankful for what that generation did for this country, and watch our sarcasm simply because they are doing what all of us are doing every day--aging! Trust me, we ALL will be there one day.

Something to think about......

JRau in central IowaSome accomplished a lot but not a hell of a lot of them. How can you go praising a whole generation?. Besides all that though, many become real grumpy and downright nasty when they get old and some are humble and nice. Like any other generation there were good ones and bad ones. The one common factor between all of them is that they are a hazard on the road.

To: I Luv Cddies.
I agree 110% on Japanese Vehicles. I didn't wanna go there, but....my Mom had a brother. He escaped Poland under the Nazis with (like Mom, a totaoo'd # on his arm) Somehow, he got the H outta Germany first via Mexico (I think) and got to America and became a citizen and join the Navy. He was saving his $$ to become a dentist, his goal. Shipped out to sea, he lost it all at Pearl Harbor. My Mom would never ride in a Japanese/German car. If a friend had one & they were going out together, Mom drove her Caddy. I hear ya, I.L.C.

Destroyer, you have Jewish friends who drive those cars, because the "percieved" status of the marque in their sync, outweighs the
memories of those that were shot in the streets & burned to death.
It's all about the generation that you & I wallow around in together,
the ME, MYSELF, and I generation.

JRau: Amen. You express yourself better than I do. :worship:

WiseGuy2; I do agree to a degree.
The T.C. SHOULD be given the Mustang V-8 at the least as standard equipment. The "power" sucks. Maybe they changed the brakes for 2003, as mine are terrific. The new head of Ford of America is Mark Fields. He hails from 1 town away from me. He is Jewish.
The 1st such to ever head an American Car Company (other than Avanti).

Right now, I am pissy-faced as our 22 y.o. son with great job has bought his 1st car. (Well, Grandmas & Grandpas bought #1 The Jeep, but now he wants his own. What does he buy ?? A Japanese car. UUuuugh:crybaby: :want: :(
A Mazola Oops, A MazdaSpeed3. Navagation/Moonroof/HID lites.
What? No gunsights, :stirpot:

1. Seniors kick ass.

The ones I know are worse than me! I love them! Funny as hell but so smart about everything. One guy I has been around forever but can still build a better house than most workers I know. Smokes like a chimmney too!

To: I Luv Cddies.
I agree 110% on Japanese Vehicles. I didn't wanna go there, but....my Mom had a brother. He escaped Poland under the Nazis with (like Mom, a totaoo'd # on his arm) Somehow, he got the H outta Germany first via Mexico (I think) and got to America and became a citizen and join the Navy. He was saving his $$ to become a dentist, his goal. Shipped out to sea, he lost it all at Pearl Harbor. My Mom would never ride in a Japanese/German car. If a friend had one & they were going out together, Mom drove her Caddy. I hear ya, I.L.C.

Destroyer, you have Jewish friends who drive those cars, because the "percieved" status of the marque in their sync, outweighs the
memories of those that were shot in the streets & burned to death.
It's all about the generation that you & I wallow around in together,
the ME, MYSELF, and I generation.

JRau: Amen. You express yourself better than I do. :worship:

WiseGuy2; I do agree to a degree.
The T.C. SHOULD be given the Mustang V-8 at the least as standard equipment. The "power" sucks. Maybe they changed the brakes for 2003, as mine are terrific. The new head of Ford of America is Mark Fields. He hails from 1 town away from me. He is Jewish.
The 1st such to ever head an American Car Company (other than Avanti).

Right now, I am pissy-faced as our 22 y.o. son with great job has bought his 1st car. (Well, Grandmas & Grandpas bought #1 The Jeep, but now he wants his own. What does he buy ?? A Japanese car. UUuuugh:crybaby: :want: :(
A Mazola Oops, A MazdaSpeed3. Navagation/Moonroof/HID lites.
What? No gunsights, :stirpot:
Maybe my friends let it go rather than hating on everything and everyone and hiding behind a wall of faith like you do. You are a racist Sandy whether you admit it or not. To some extent we all are. Ford makes a lot of German cars Sandy and like someone already said Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer. Your old school way of thinking just cant be rationalized. You know of someone killed in Pearl Harbor so you wont buy Japanese, you know of the Holocaust and are Jewish so you wont buy German. In the end Sandy, you lose and have spent a lifetime limiting yourself to things you can or cant do based on who you hate. The Jewish are/were not the only race to suffer hardships. Most of the people that suffered these hardships are dead and most of the people that inflicted the hardships are dead. The slate is clean.

I am certainly NOT a racist, that's for sure. Why do you feel that I should not be "free" (as you are) to make my own purchasing decessions? If I am happy in a Caddy, Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Ford, Mercury or Lincoln (any models thereof) why would such so bother you?

Do you recall - like maybe 4-6 years ago, when Black People working at Mitsubishi sued Mitsu because they claimed that Mitsu did not promote entitled Blacks to higher posistions, even when an individual's work performance & ethic were equal to or better? They sued in court, in NYC (I think) and they proved their case. Few stayed to "collect" a new better job. It was all over the news, at least here in the North East.
Did you see what happened to Mitsu, after that? Saleswise it was
Toyota Honda Nissan Mitsu. Well Mitsu fell way way down. Why? African Americans shunned the brand. Today..Look on the roads, daily. See how many late model (under 4 years old) Mitsus you see being driven by black people. Very Very Very few. A friend sells in a VW / Mitsu dealer, and he says don't waste your time even showing a Mitsu to a Black Shopper.
Now....
note, that they did not kill 6-mil, they just did not pronote, yet they will not buy.
Since, I take it that you are not Jewish, you really have no business telling me how/what or the way, I should feel nor whom or what companies I should spend my money at or with, as long as I do not restrict you.
I sincerely doubt that my buying my 1993 Cadillac or my 2003 Lincoln has hurt any mainstream German car builder.
Back to your thoughts, Maybe your friends are far younger & got to have, know & enjoy grandparents, just maybe!
Now what "Wall of Faith" am I hiding behind? I think I am very upfront, honest & open in my feelings. I never said anyone should feel as do I ~ I only expressed how & why I feel as I do. Have I not that right?

How do I lose? (You say that in the end, I lose) Car-wise I take it....
I have 3 ascMcLarens, 1 Cadillac, 1 Lincoln, 1 Jeep Cherokee LTD, and have had (I think) about 33 cars prior. 2 Caddies, 2 Buicks, 2 Pontiacs, 6 Imperials, 4 Dodges and 33 Demos = 55. I lost ?
(I do like German Black Forest Cake and have several friends of German backgouinds.). They are Americans.

I am certainly NOT a racist, that's for sure. Why do you feel that I should not be "free" (as you are) to make my own purchasing decessions? If I am happy in a Caddy, Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Ford, Mercury or Lincoln (any models thereof) why would such so bother you?

Do you recall - like maybe 4-6 years ago, when Black People working at Mitsubishi sued Mitsu because they claimed that Mitsu did not promote entitled Blacks to higher posistions, even when an individual's work performance & ethic were equal to or better? They sued in court, in NYC (I think) and they proved their case. Few stayed to "collect" a new better job. It was all over the news, at least here in the North East.
Did you see what happened to Mitsu, after that? Saleswise it was
Toyota Honda Nissan Mitsu. Well Mitsu fell way way down. Why? African Americans shunned the brand. Today..Look on the roads, daily. See how many late model (under 4 years old) Mitsus you see being driven by black people. Very Very Very few. A friend sells in a VW / Mitsu dealer, and he says don't waste your time even showing a Mitsu to a Black Shopper.
Now....
note, that they did not kill 6-mil, they just did not pronote, yet they will not buy.
Since, I take it that you are not Jewish, you really have no business telling me how/what or the way, I should feel nor whom or what companies I should spend my money at or with, as long as I do not restrict you.
I sincerely doubt that my buying my 1993 Cadillac or my 2003 Lincoln has hurt any mainstream German car builder.
Back to your thoughts, Maybe your friends are far younger & got to have, know & enjoy grandparents, just maybe!
Now what "Wall of Faith" am I hiding behind? I think I am very upfront, honest & open in my feelings. I never said anyone should feel as do I ~ I only expressed how & why I feel as I do. Have I not that right?

How do I lose? (You say that in the end, I lose) Car-wise I take it....
I have 3 ascMcLarens, 1 Cadillac, 1 Lincoln, 1 Jeep Cherokee LTD, and have had (I think) about 33 cars prior. 2 Caddies, 2 Buicks, 2 Pontiacs, 6 Imperials, 4 Dodges and 33 Demos = 55. I lost ?
(I do like German Black Forest Cake and have several friends of German backgouinds.). They are Americans.
Sandy I dont care what car you buy. I'm not an advocate for German or Japanese cars and have no stock in either. I'm referring to your constant remarks about the Holocaust and then how Brand X or Y should be stayed away from because of it. You are inadvertently bringing religion into this forum. I said you lose because you are close minded and wont let things go. You sound offended but have you even concidered that there may be German or Japanese people here that you are offending?.

Destroyer:

You and I are not old enough to know what Sandy and his family suffered in WWII. We cannot even imagine the horror. Sure we can read books (The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom, for instance) about what happened, we can talk to those who lived it, but we weren't there. 6 million Jews killed in some of the most merciless ways ever known to mankind.

Regardless of our feelings and opinions, we owe this man (Sandy) due respect given the horror he personally witnessed many years ago. I can only begin to imagine how those images are forever etched in his mind. I don't believe for a second that Sandy is a racist. Every person has a certain threshold for forgiveness... Perhaps Sandy hasn't forgiven those from the past to the degree you might expect, but that is not ours to harp on him about that.

Sandy: Tell your story. Young people today need to hear it from those who lived it out every day. They need to realize the horrors that mankind can stoop to so that perhaps we can keep it from happening again.

I fear that present day historians, in their attempt to make everything politically correct, will conveniently rewrite history. Sadly, it is already happening in some other countries where they are saying the holocaust was a lie.

JRau in central Iowa

Some accomplished a lot but not a hell of a lot of them. How can you go praising a whole generation?. Besides all that though, many become real grumpy and downright nasty when they get old and some are humble and nice. Like any other generation there were good ones and bad ones. The one common factor between all of them is that they are a hazard on the road.

You need to get out and talk to these older adults. Time after time as I talk with them and listen to them, I am so thankful for what they did to make America a better place. No other generation had to suffer the hardships to the extent that these have. I know I would have a very hard time living like they did back in the '30's and 40's. I like showering daily, I like the variety of food I can eat, I like going to the city whenever I want. They couldn't do this. Many of them bathed once a week in the same bath water, many ate very very simply, and many were able to "come to town" once a week because they couldn't afford the gasoline. We've never had it that bad, and much of it is due to that generation. While I understand that a certain amount of people in this generation may have been lazier than others, the work ethic was much better than current generations, imo. It wasn't about their comfort, it was survival--and that builds the character that translates into a better work ethic.

Generally speaking, people who are grumpy in younger years remain grumpy throughout life. People with happy dispositions remain happy, no matter what life throws at them. Trust me, I see all types everyday at work. Finally, Alzheimer's and dementia related illnesses can affect older adults and change their personalities. It is a horrible disease. Those affected know that something terrible is happening in their heads but they are powerless to stop it. They don't like what's happening to them.

I certainly don't intend to beat you up on this issue, but as you can tell, I am very passionate about serving older adults. It's my way of saying "thanks for all you've done for me."

Peace to you, (Really--no hard feelings, just vigorous debate...:)

JRau in central Iowa

I have nothing more to add.

So yeah... that Town Car is a pretty nice ride. :)

^^ Really. Let's be civil. "Debates" like that are banworthy in my eyes. Would hate to lose any good forum member.

So any ideas what the next T/C will look like?

So any ideas what the next T/C will look like?


http://www.lincolnforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1835
There isn't going to be a next T/C. After the current model's sales whither away, the car fades into obscurity.

You need to get out and talk to these older adults. Time after time as I talk with them and listen to them, I am so thankful for what they did to make America a better place. No other generation had to suffer the hardships to the extent that these have. I know I would have a very hard time living like they did back in the '30's and 40's. I like showering daily, I like the variety of food I can eat, I like going to the city whenever I want. They couldn't do this. Many of them bathed once a week in the same bath water, many ate very very simply, and many were able to "come to town" once a week because they couldn't afford the gasoline. We've never had it that bad, and much of it is due to that generation. While I understand that a certain amount of people in this generation may have been lazier than others, the work ethic was much better than current generations, imo. It wasn't about their comfort, it was survival--and that builds the character that translates into a better work ethic.

Generally speaking, people who are grumpy in younger years remain grumpy throughout life. People with happy dispositions remain happy, no matter what life throws at them. Trust me, I see all types everyday at work. Finally, Alzheimer's and dementia related illnesses can affect older adults and change their personalities. It is a horrible disease. Those affected know that something terrible is happening in their heads but they are powerless to stop it. They don't like what's happening to them.

I certainly don't intend to beat you up on this issue, but as you can tell, I am very passionate about serving older adults. It's my way of saying "thanks for all you've done for me."

Peace to you, (Really--no hard feelings, just vigorous debate...:)

JRau in central Iowa
All the things you described were witnessed by a minority of the seniors alive today and even then, did they have a choice?. They did what they needed to survive and were products of their environment. Do they deserve respect? Maybe but respect is something you earn not something that comes along just cause you are old. Do they deserve drivers licenses when they are a hazard on the road? Absolutely not. When I get older will people say that hey this guy was around when the Vietnam War, Gulf War or the Iraq war was going on, lets give him respect. I dont think so and truthfully I dont deserve any cause it was just crap going on during my stay on this earth.

MachX - R-U sure that there is No 2008Town Car ?? I had heard that the end of it was not definate, but would take place when annual sales (both retail & fleet) wound down to under 50,000 a year. Did you actually hear that 2007 was the last call ??

So lemme get this straight, before this thread is closed. Destroyer, you're basically saying that Sandy is being close minded about German cars because his grandparents were murdered in the holocaust? You say that isn't ample justification for him not to buy a german car? If that is the truth (and I hope it's not), that is quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've heard in a long time. What if your parents were killed in the holocaust (god forbid), would you go and buy a car that was driven by the Nazi elite? I know I wouldn't!

Now Destroyer, I don't mean any of this as offensive, you and I get along quite well and I intend on keeping it that way, but if Sandy doesn't wanna buy a german car because of what the Nazi's did to his family 60 years ago, I don't blame him one bit.

#1 The Town Car isn't dead just yet. It's still being produced for a bit longer. I wouldn't expect anymore major style changes, however..

#2 This thread is bearly a discussion about the Town Car anymore.. The subject is closed.