: a lil help please



molotovman5000
09-19-06, 01:42 AM
limps at start up and smokes 20 secs later stops limping and smoke goes away Please help what could be the problem :mad:
plugs, wires, coils??? the only code i get is the 0300 (misfire)
BTW 97 Deville 275 HP engine

thu
09-19-06, 02:05 AM
Misfire? Hmmm...I wonder if that's an indication of the problem you're seeing?

Kinda sounds like injector is leaking at shutdown, filling a cylinder with fuel. When you fire it up, it runs really rich until they extra fuel is all gone. Might be where that misfire code is coming from.

Ranger
09-19-06, 10:59 AM
Hard to tell from those pics, but the smoke appears to be black. Like Thu said, check the injectors as well as the FPR. Have you had the fuel rail recall done? How many miles on it? Are the plugs & wires original?

wydopnthrtl
09-19-06, 11:13 AM
It is hard to tell from the pics. But if the smoke is black or mostly black-ish blue? It's fuel related.

If it's pure white it's either water getting into the cylinder after shut down or possibly oil getting in there. What does the smoke smell like? Fuel, burnt oil, or burnt antifreeze?

The symptoms you describe sounds EXACTLY like a fliud leaking into the cylinder after shut down. Does it get worse the longer the motor is off?

Rich

molotovman5000
09-19-06, 08:08 PM
no if i leave the car off for an hour or a day it smokes the same, im positive its not antifrezee, i think it smells like fuel, i changed the plugs today with the AC delco ones and still smokes, not as much though, the wires are good.
the cars gots 91K miles. it gots the stock fuel rail, the car is a restored salvage so i think the recall is void

Ranger
09-19-06, 10:06 PM
If it looks like fuel and smells like fuel, it probably is. Since it only runs rough and smokes for a few seconds after start up, I'm with Thu. Sounds like an injector leaking fuel into the cylinder and burning off after start up. I don't know how much it would take, but if enough leaks in the cylinder and you crank it over, you stand the chance of hydrolocking the engine. Then you will have BIG problems. Get this taken care of quickly. If you pulled the old plugs and paid attention to them, the offending injector should be pretty obvious as that plug would be carbon fouled. In any case you will have to pull the fuel rail, so pull the rail with the injectors attached, then turn the key on (do not crank) to pressurize the fuel rail and see which, if any leak. This might be a good time to purchase a stainless steel fuel rail and install it. It may be expensive but it is cheaper than the alternative.
'98 Eldorado
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBucket/BarbequeTime.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/WBucket/Endgame.jpg

molotovman5000
09-19-06, 11:01 PM
^^^^ ouch that sucks, hope that dosent happen to mine :(

Ranger
09-19-06, 11:50 PM
^^^^ ouch that sucks, hope that dosent happen to mine :(
Have you had the fuel rail recall done?

zonie77
09-20-06, 12:28 AM
The fuel rail is a safety recall. I think it's honored even with a salvage title.

molotovman5000
09-20-06, 02:03 AM
so do i just go to the dealer, and tell them "im here for the fuel rail recall" lol

Ranger
09-20-06, 11:00 AM
Yup, it includes '95 - '97 Northstars.

molotovman5000
09-20-06, 11:30 AM
cool thanks

zonie77
09-20-06, 01:11 PM
I'd call them and give them the vin #. THey can verify if it qualify's and if they have the part in stock.

molotovman5000
09-20-06, 04:05 PM
UPDATE!!! Changed plugs (ac delco), wires, air filter, oil, oil filter, and the car stoped smoking, but this morning the dash read coolant level low, first think in my mind was F**K BHG!!, topped off the coolant, drove it for 60 miles, came back, and the coolant was still in the same place i toped it off, and there is no white smoke and the car was runing fine engine temps (206-217)
I think the previous owners had the fuel rail replaced does this look like the original?
yeah a lil dirty lol

eldorado1
09-20-06, 04:07 PM
That's the stainless steel rail

Ranger
09-20-06, 04:44 PM
Yup, your recall has been done.

When my '97 Deville gave me the check coolant message, I too almost had a heart attack as well. Sure enough it was low with no "apperant" reason. Upon further inspection I found the nipple on the surge tank that the purge line connects to had a hairline crack in it. It was not visible to the naked eye without the engine running and even then it was just a very, very slow seepage that would probably take weeks to bleed down enough to get the check coolant level message again (thank God & GM for that sensor). In hindsight, the telltale sign is that dried Dex-Cool leaves a whitish film. Inspect your tank & fittings closely.

thu
09-20-06, 05:56 PM
Let us know if the problem stays away!

jss
09-21-06, 12:54 PM
Underneath my intake cover, everything is covered with oil. I didn't realize that wasn't supposed to be the case until I looked at your pictures. Perhaps that's why I'm getting the code that tells me that there is a short in the fuel circuit?

eldorado1
09-21-06, 02:54 PM
Underneath my intake cover, everything is covered with oil. I didn't realize that wasn't supposed to be the case until I looked at your pictures. Perhaps that's why I'm getting the code that tells me that there is a short in the fuel circuit?

You have a 94, that's different from a 97. When he takes off his cover, you see the top of the manifold. When you take off your cover, you see the inside of the manifold. If you could see inside his manifold, you'd see a bunch of oil covering everything too.

Ranger
09-21-06, 06:01 PM
Yup, it's normal.

molotovman5000
09-22-06, 02:52 AM
grrrrr the car is still acting up, how do i check to see it the injectors are leaking??? im thinking of just replacing all 8 how much do they cost???

eldorado1
09-22-06, 07:05 AM
About $50-$100 each.

Remove the 4 bolts holding the rail down, and pull it off. Pressurize the rail by turning the key to run, and check for leaks.

molotovman5000
09-22-06, 03:37 PM
awesome THX will do that 2 morow

jss
09-22-06, 04:18 PM
You have a 94, that's different from a 97. When he takes off his cover, you see the top of the manifold. When you take off your cover, you see the inside of the manifold. If you could see inside his manifold, you'd see a bunch of oil covering everything too.

Ah. Thanks for the correction.

jss
09-22-06, 04:27 PM
molotovman5000,

As you're still experiencing the problem, I would urgently ditto Ranger's suggestion on fixing this problem quickly; for a reason other than the fire hazard. I don't know what a Northstar does in this scenario, but I have replaced bent connecting rods on two Honda bikes (79 CBX, 81 CB900) where the float needle on one cylinder leaked, letting that cylinder fill up with fuel. When the owner went to start her, the fuel wouldn't compress, so the connecting rod bent to accomodate the restricted stroke travel.

molotovman5000
09-23-06, 03:35 PM
ok i found out it is a BHG. the car DOSENT overheat, but the smoke is antifreeze, is there any thing i can put in the cooling system to make it stop smoking temporarily while i try to and sell it?

Ranger
09-23-06, 05:04 PM
Nope.

eldorado1
09-23-06, 06:40 PM
ok i found out it is a BHG. the car DOSENT overheat, but the smoke is antifreeze, is there any thing i can put in the cooling system to make it stop smoking temporarily while i try to and sell it?

Just remove the coolant. They won't need it. It doesn't "cool" anymore anyways, right? Problem solved.

:thepan:

molotovman5000
09-23-06, 07:21 PM
Just remove the coolant. They won't need it. It doesn't "cool" anymore anyways, right? Problem solved.

:thepan:
ummmm it does "NOT" overheat, just a lil smoke at start up, want to get rid of it before it becomes something big.
BTW i will sell it under KBB,