: Anyone have a timesert bit they could measure for me?



mountain14er
09-13-06, 11:01 AM
Since 20 timeserts cost $55 and the kit costs over $300, I figured I'd just pick up the bit, countersink and tap seperately. Would someone be kind enough to measure the timesert drill bit lenghts for me? It wouldn't be hard to get the measurements from the current block but I want to be as precise as possible. Thanks.

chevelle
09-13-06, 01:11 PM
Since 20 timeserts cost $55 and the kit costs over $300, I figured I'd just pick up the bit, countersink and tap seperately. Would someone be kind enough to measure the timesert drill bit lenghts for me? It wouldn't be hard to get the measurements from the current block but I want to be as precise as possible. Thanks.


You REALLY want to use the specific timesert tap for that timesert. In addition, realize that the timeserts for the Northstar head bolt holes are application specific timesert inserts that are much longer than the normal inserts so as to provide the adequate engagement length. The drill and tap for the NORTHSTAR specific kit are sized specifically for those timeserts and are the ones to use. They are marked for depth to insure the correct countersink (built into the drill) depth so that the thread engagement of the timesert is correct. While the job could possibly be done with generic tooling I would recommend the application specific tooling in the kit. And absolutely positively use the application specific Northstar head bolt timesert inserts, not the generic ones for that size thread.

eldorado1
09-13-06, 01:16 PM
I think it comes with a guide plate too

mountain14er
09-13-06, 05:37 PM
I bought the exact N* timeserts from the manufacturer. Also, the documentation that came with them has the exact drill bit and tap needed. It's really just the depth I need to get, which I can get with a caliper from the block but it's always good to double check.

I can make a plate to ensure the drill and tap go in straight. And the site has directions on how deep to drill and countersink in case you don't have the stuff listed in

http://www.timesert.com/html/northstar.pdf

Tricky
09-14-06, 08:36 AM
Ive got a complete set coming to me at the end of Sept if you want to wait that long?

mountain14er
09-14-06, 10:56 AM
Ive got a complete set coming to me at the end of Sept if you want to wait that long?

Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know if I still need them by then.

wawuzat
09-14-06, 07:12 PM
I bought one of these kits...
eBay - northstar, north star, northstar engine - buy and sell on eBay Motors (http://motors.search.ebay.com/northstar_W0QQfromZR40QQfrtsZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1)

Some Caddy techs are raving about them being superior to Timerserts. Admittedly, I haven't installed mine yet. The N* engine/tranny is sittin' & waiting for me to install it in my GT40-bodied Fireo.

eldorado1
09-14-06, 08:56 PM
I think you mean this?

eBay Motors: NORTHSTAR ENGINE BLOCK HEAD BOLT THREADED INSERTS KIT (item 150033106799 end time Sep-19-06 13:45:09 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150033106799)

dkozloski
09-14-06, 09:25 PM
I think you mean this?

eBay Motors: NORTHSTAR ENGINE BLOCK HEAD BOLT THREADED INSERTS KIT (item 150033106799 end time Sep-19-06 13:45:09 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150033106799)

If you want first class oats you have to pay top dollar. If you're willing to send them through the horse once they're lots cheaper.

eldorado1
09-14-06, 09:30 PM
If you want first class oats you have to pay top dollar. If you're willing to send them through the horse once they're lots cheaper.

I have no idea what you're talking about... They're within $5 of each other

dkozloski
09-14-06, 10:44 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about... They're within $5 of each other

How about this one then? If you always buy second best, never in your entire lifetime will you ever own anything worth a damn.

mountain14er
09-15-06, 09:53 AM
All I know is that the timeserts cost $50 and timesert.com is charging $300 for a drill bit, tap, and plate. A call to mcmaster-carr will do that for about $25. There's no sacrifice in quality, just in time-sert's profit.

haymaker
09-15-06, 10:30 AM
Mountain14er, the complete kit from timesert is by far the best way to go. New, eBay, borrow from a friend or wherever you can find one, it takes the guesswork out of the job. If this is your first time installing the timeserts the kit will ease your mind plus take away the second guessing about drill depth, drill centering and last but not least did I just trash my block?

If after everything I just stated above you still plan to try the insert installation without the timesert kit then this picture of a model I built of the head bolt area of the N*. I originally built the pictured model about a year ago for another thread on this forum. See if these measurements are helpful (you did say you had the drill and tap sizes, if not a quick check of the new timesert should provide that information). I realize the photo is rotated 90 degrees but it was the best fit. The red colored area indicates the thread engagement (bolt to block) or timesert after the repair is completed.

BTW here is a portion of an email I received from Time fastener Company (Timesert) 09/2004 regarding special timeserts for the N* engine part #11155 and how many they had sold.

Hello,
The insert we use to repair the NorthStar is a M11x1.5x30mm Length.
This is not a special length we only make for the northstar. We sell it for hondas, acuras and other vehicles.
We have sold thousands of these inserts but our data records work in a way that it builds for each kit sold so the part number 11155
will only give an overall total. We get people ordering every day for this insert but it we don't know what applacation it might be used for.
Hope that clears things up a little more.
Best Regards


Here is the link to the picture in post #242.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/32287-high-oil-consumption-pulled-headbolts-blown-25.html

haymaker
09-15-06, 11:41 AM
I bought one of these kits...
eBay - northstar, north star, northstar engine - buy and sell on eBay Motors (http://motors.search.ebay.com/northstar_W0QQfromZR40QQfrtsZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1)

Some Caddy techs are raving about them being superior to Timerserts. Admittedly, I haven't installed mine yet. The N* engine/tranny is sittin' & waiting for me to install it in my GT40-bodied Fireo.

I just looked over that new insert kit you referred to on eBay. Of course I don’t have any experience with the new insert either but it looks like a better idea at least as to the overall strength of the final head bolt to cylinder block connection. It appears that his kits drill bit @17/32” removes the entire bottom threaded material of the head bolt socket in the block flush with the id. of the upper portion of the head bolt socket. Then the entire length top to blind bottom of the head bolt socket is tapped with the two 5/8”-11 taps (the last one being a bottoming tap because of the blind hole). This approach could solve the problems of not enough material being removed by the first repair timesert kits reamer to get into completely virgin material for the timesert and the potential problem of the block developing a crack(s) from the enlargement of the entire depth of the head bolt socket for the installation of the bigserts during the second repair when needed. I am sure the new kit needs to be proven in the field for a period of time but from what I am seeing this looks to be the better idea. The only problem I see is that if you have a failed bigserts and wanted to repair the problem using this new kit it couldn’t because the bigserts kits reamer would have already oversized the head bolt socket in the block to the point that the new kits inserts wouldn’t have any material to engage its threads.

IMHO this fix within itself probably won’t stop all head gasket problems on the N* but it should help in reducing the second time head gasket problems.

wawuzat
09-15-06, 04:08 PM
I think you mean this?

eBay Motors: NORTHSTAR ENGINE BLOCK HEAD BOLT THREADED INSERTS KIT (item 150033106799 end time Sep-19-06 13:45:09 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150033106799)


OOPS! You're right. I posted the wrong link.

wawuzat
09-15-06, 04:17 PM
IMHO this fix within itself probably won’t stop all head gasket problems on the N* but it should help in reducing the second time head gasket problems.

Agreed. Since some (not many) Timeserts have failed, I would prefer to do this job only once. Bear in mind that I heard of no head gasket problems with my motor from the previous owner, but since I'll be rebuilding the engine (149K miles), I want to install the inserts while the bolt holes are open.

Write the seller on eBay ... he's already got some history with a few Caddy Techs ... and he's always willing to talk/e-mail.

RATZLAFF
09-17-06, 08:59 PM
I just finished installing the insert kit purchased from Norm on ebay and it worked beautifully. I did the install in the car and while not the easiest head gasket job I have done it is not impossible at all! Drilling all of those 20 17/32 holes created more aluminum shavings than I want to see ever again near my engine however!