: Engine additives...safe for N*?



weister42
09-09-06, 01:03 AM
Seafoam is suppose to clean the engine and Restore is suppose to restore a high mileage engine's compression and such. There are other products, some are quite expensive, that does about the same thing or more. Restore actually guarantees their engine restorer, when used with a 100k+ engine, to restore engine response or your money back. Are these safe for a N* and why/why not?

dkozloski
09-09-06, 01:14 AM
Try duck butter or 'possum fat. It's all the same stuff. A lot of these products are reclaimed crankcase drainings. If you look around you can find a multitude of testimonial letters for these concoctions as well as for astrology and UFO's. Too bad they seem to all be written by the same people.

eldorado1
09-09-06, 10:08 AM
Seafoam does work... In the same way that a bad headgasket will steam clean the cylinders. They just add more ingredients to their water, like rubbing alcohol and naptha (lighter fluid) for flavor.

However, you can buy gallons of the stuff for a few cents. It's on the shelf as "distilled water". Add it into the center vacuum port (the PCV vacuum line) a little at a time. Maybe a half cup or so. Then just increase your idle speed to 2000rpm (NO MORE!) to let the engine take it in. This procedure is specifically for 95-99 northstars ONLY. The way the manifold is built, the water will puddle on the bottom of the manifold. Raising the idle to 2000 will start to suck the water up into the runners. Any higher than that will suck more water than you want and you might hydrolock.

Anyways, even better than distilled water, or Seafoam, is GM's Top Engine Cleaner. It has some gnarly acids that eat carbon. Still follow the directions above, and not those on the can. They're made for carbureted engines or something.

Restore is made of tiny metal particles held in suspension. The metal is forced into cracks by the regular scraping motion of the rings and other things. You can easily raise your compression this way, however I consider it to be a temporary condition, and I don't think there are any studies on how this metal suspension affects things like bearings or oil filters. I'd recommend it on a beater, but not a northstar.

Ranger
09-09-06, 10:15 AM
Safe? Probably so. Useless? Likewise. What makes you think that you need any of this snake oil? "Clean the engine" indicates that it is dirty. Regular oil changes prevent that. "Restoring compression" indicates a loss of compression. Compression loss comes from worn rings or burnt valves. Snake oil can't fix that.

eldorado1
09-09-06, 11:50 AM
Compression loss comes from worn rings or burnt valves. Snake oil can't fix that.

Well... I've actually done tests on the restore, and it does fix compression loss due to regular wear on the rings, as advertised.

But because it is basically bits of metal suspended in goop, I can't recommend it on anything newer than an 87 that needs a new engine anyways. ;)

chevelle
09-09-06, 12:15 PM
Well... I've actually done tests on the restore, and it does fix compression loss due to regular wear on the rings, as advertised.

;)


NONSENSE.

ALL RESTORE OR ANY OF THE OTHER SNAKE OILS ON THE MARKET WILL DO IS RELOCATE YOUR MONEY TO THE POCKETS OF THE MARKETERS OF THE CRAP.

OH....WAIT....LET ME GUESS....YOU ARE A RESTORE SALESMAN.....



One of the common tricks of products like Restore is to include some heavy end viscosity improvers in the product. Yes, they will help to seal up the rings and "restore" compression. Just like putting oil in the spark plug hole will restore compression. For a few minutes.

Interesting thing about those long chain viscosity improvers, though. As proven by the 10W40 oils of the late 70's and early 80's they will improve compression for awhile as they seal up the rings in the upper grooves. Then the stuff turns to tar and sticks the rings and compression goes to hell.

Restore is total crap. Forget putting it in anything. I wouldn't even use it on squeeky door hinges.

As far as any "tune up in a can" or "miracle head gasket sealer" or "replaces worn metal" , etc..... you would be better off continuing the search for that fountain of youth....or selling bridges maybe.


Seafoam is a solvent that can clean when introduced in concentrated doses...much like water can as mentioned. Seafoam is probably one of the more benign snake oils but it really doesn't do anything, either. Save your money.

The only "additives" that are scientifically proven to work in any fashion are GM EOS and the Barsleaks type of cooling system sealer. Both have chemical, scientific and physical basis for their operation. EOS has copious amounts of the anti-wear agent ZDP in it which does protect against wear and will allow an incipient scuff condition to burnish and heal to some extent preventing further wear. It has been proven for breakin and wear protection on things like distributor gears (that drive oil pumps) when the engine oil was contaminated with coolant, for example. ZDP is very expensive which is why that can of EOS costs so much and why you will not find ZDP in any of the aftermarket snake oil additives....which is also why they do not work. The BarsLeaks golden seal powder/GM coolant supplement pellets are simply ground up ginger root. The tiny ginger root fibers shrink when wet (in suspension in the cooling system) and clot in a leak area. They then dry when exposed to the air (on the other side of the leak) and expand, sealing the leak up. Excellent product and works well. None of other types of cooling system sealers will do this and is why the recommended sealant will not clog heater cores like the other types will.

That is the complete list of additives that "work". Forget the rest.

eldorado1
09-09-06, 12:35 PM
OH....WAIT....LET ME GUESS....YOU ARE A RESTORE SALESMAN.....


Yep, you caught me!

I must not be doing it right though, because I keep saying stuff like this:


I can't recommend it on anything newer than an 87 that needs a new engine anyways.

LOL!

dkozloski
09-09-06, 02:20 PM
To remove carbon using distilled water open the aircleaner to get to the intake, use an old spray bottle to apply the water, and have the idle at 1500RPM. Spray the water and watch the black smoke come out the tailpipe. I've been doing it for over fifty years. For you old timers, we used to use a "flit gun".

Ranger
09-09-06, 04:20 PM
Hehe, I can remember pouring a glass of water down the carb of a Mopar 383 at WOT.

JimHare
09-11-06, 10:41 AM
For you old timers, we used to use a "flit gun".

God, I haven't heard "flit gun" for years! What a hoot! Thanks, Koz

denscor
09-11-06, 11:59 AM
Seafoam was created by the navy. Its one of the best cleaner out there Guys on the other place use it instead of gm top engine cleaner.GM top engine cleaner is made by Seafoam (pretty sure) or mystery oil.I use it with great results. Putting water in intake is scarey to me too much could do alot of damage! Before you ask no I'm not a Seafoam Salesman! I fog the engine on my Vette and every used car I buy ( remember to change the oil after you do it).

eldorado1
09-11-06, 12:08 PM
Seafoam was created by the navy. Its one of the best cleaner out there Guys on the other place use it instead of gm top engine cleaner.GM top engine cleaner is made by Seafoam (pretty sure) or mystery oil.I use it with great results

What's "the other place"? And are they "special" there? <tongue firmly in cheek>

:alchi:

As posted in tech tips:

Seafoam doesn't contain 1/2 the ingredients TEC has.

Seafoam ingredients:

Isopropyl Alcohol (rubbing alcohol), pale oil, and naptha.

GM TEC ingredients:
2-BUTOXYETHANOL, naptha, 4-METHYL-2-PENTANOL, 9-OCTADECENDIC ACID.

This taken from their respective MSDS sheets. Anyone who tells you TEC is the
same as seafoam hasn't smelled TEC... pew! "So bad, it has to work!"

Just to follow up on the instructions given above, you want to pour the entire can in (slowly) the vacuum hose. One that feeds ALL of the cylinders (brake booster or PCV). Then you hop in the car, raise the idle to 2000rpm, and shut it down when you see the white smoke.

denscor
09-11-06, 12:16 PM
maybe thats why my camaro with ls1 had 250000 mile and throttle body never had to be taken off to get cleaned my 1998 vette had 90000 miles never had to take off throttle body to get cleaner, jeep has 150000 never had tb cleaner! This is just the throttle body the inside looks new!I use it on my 2001 vette every year.

eldorado1
09-11-06, 12:23 PM
I'm not entirely sure what a clean throttle body has to do with seafoam...

Seafoam is not a cleaner. It doesn't even remove grease. At best it mimicks the properties of water in the combustion chamber, which can't be seen without a borescope.

chevelle
09-11-06, 01:22 PM
maybe thats why my camaro with ls1 had 250000 mile and throttle body never had to be taken off to get cleaned my 1998 vette had 90000 miles never had to take off throttle body to get cleaner, jeep has 150000 never had tb cleaner! This is just the throttle body the inside looks new!I use it on my 2001 vette every year.


It certainly wasn't because you poured some sort of gas treatment or "seafoam" thru the fuel system.....LOL.

chevelle
09-11-06, 01:25 PM
Seafoam was created by the navy. Its one of the best cleaner out there Guys on the other place use it instead of gm top engine cleaner.GM top engine cleaner is made by Seafoam (pretty sure) or mystery oil.I use it with great results. Putting water in intake is scarey to me too much could do alot of damage! Before you ask no I'm not a Seafoam Salesman! I fog the engine on my Vette and every used car I buy ( remember to change the oil after you do it).


GREAT STORY. Too bad it is so far from the truth.

Seafoam is in no way related to , same as nor made by the same people as the GM Top Engine Cleaner.....nor "mystery oil."

If someone is using seafoam instead of TEC then they are not getting the same results they would have with TEC....i.e....they didn't need the TEC in the first place.

I've tried using seafoam as a parts cleaner one time out of curiosity and it was useless so what good it could do in an engine is beyond me....

white97deville
09-11-06, 06:51 PM
I've tried using seafoam as a parts cleaner one time out of curiosity and it was useless so what good it could do in an engine is beyond me....


Me too....on my NStar when I had the heads off to timesert the headbolts. Seafoam wouldn't clean the carbon off the pistons at all. Maybe it works much better with a hot engine. Don't know about that.

On another note....the two pistons that had coolant leaks into them were completely clean with no buildup of any kind. Maybe water works for carbon cleaning????

chevelle
09-11-06, 06:58 PM
Me too....on my NStar when I had the heads off to timesert the headbolts. Seafoam wouldn't clean the carbon off the pistons at all. Maybe it works much better with a hot engine. Don't know about that.

On another note....the two pistons that had coolant leaks into them were completely clean with no buildup of any kind. Maybe water works for carbon cleaning????


Uh...you must have missed the earlier posts in this thread. Water has been used for ages to clean carbon out of the combustion chamber.

dkozloski
09-11-06, 07:07 PM
Detonation also does a great job of decarbonising an engine. It gives a sandblasted appearance to the combustion chamber and piston head. Too bad it can also destroy an engine if overdone. That pinging and rattling noise you hear is important engine parts being distorted by extreme forces.

denscor
09-11-06, 08:21 PM
Look at this for seafoam
www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205615

I would not put water in my car to decarbon it water too much water could hydro-lock motor crack pistons water doesn't lubricate! Next time I tear down a motor that has been cleaned with Seafoam I will that pics of it! My son has a ford probe with 250000 miles and have used Seaform regularly,replace head gaskets it looked new inside,Friend of mine has a F 150 with 450000 miles with Seafoam used regularly looks new inside!

eldorado1
09-11-06, 09:17 PM
I would not put water in my car to decarbon it water too much water could hydro-lock motor crack pistons water doesn't lubricate!

???

Too much seafoam could hydrolock the motor and crack pistons.

Follow the directions for introducing ANY liquid to a northstar and you'll be fine.

denscor
09-11-06, 09:59 PM
???

Too much seafoam could hydrolock the motor and crack pistons.

Follow the directions for introducing ANY liquid to a northstar and you'll be fine.


seafoam is a petroleum base hydrolocking refers to water (like running into a water hole going into intake drowning motor) Seafoam or any petroleum base product will ignite.Wouldn't water be bad on rings gaskets bearings I would not use water!! Too many other products on the market! What is a motor worth if it hurts it!

eldorado1
09-11-06, 10:25 PM
Hydrolock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock)

and water turns into steam just as easily as seafoam ignites; perhaps easier.

For the record, a sticking injector can hydrolock an engine. (Even though fuel is flammable, as in your example)

white97deville
09-12-06, 12:20 AM
Uh...you must have missed the earlier posts in this thread. Water has been used for ages to clean carbon out of the combustion chamber.


I didn't miss any of the earlier posts....I am Expounding with a little sarcasm on the point that water (free) does a better job of cleaning the carbon than all of the snake oil ($$$$) that can ever be bottled.

denscor
09-12-06, 06:18 AM
this all I'm going to say about this because it pointless and I don't have the time or patience.

dkozloski
09-12-06, 11:11 AM
You can make a procedure foolproof but you can't make it damnfool proof. Spray the liquid into the motor from a spray bottle and you'll be fine. Pour it in out of a bucket and you're in trouble. I suppose somebody's going to drive their car into a lake to decarbonise it.

eldorado1
09-12-06, 01:20 PM
Spray the liquid into the motor from a spray bottle and you'll be fine. Pour it in out of a bucket and you're in trouble.

Exactly why I recommend the Aerosol Top Engine Cleaner...

You can't spray it fast enough to do any damage... Which for the average person is probably a good thing. ;)

chevelle
09-12-06, 03:10 PM
It doesn't matter if the liquid in question is "flammable" or not. Put too much in too fast and it can hydrostatically lock the engine. It really doesn't matter if it water or seafoam or TEC or whatever. Pour too much in too fast and the engine can be hydrostatically locked. Happens with stuck injectors as previously mentioned. There are lots of service cases of techs hydrostatically locking Northstar engines with TEC if it is not done correctly.

Doing a de-carb with water or TEC or both is very effective. IF it needs to be done. Very very few engines need it done so why bother? Only if the carbon has gotten so heavy that it is contacting the piston to the cylinder head (commonly known as the carbon rap problem) is it necessary to decarb the engine. Even then, pouring TEC thru the engine is not as effective as taking the car out and doing some WOT accells afterwards. An occasional dose of WOT to redline will keep the chanbers plenty clean.

Cleaning carbon out of the chambers is GREATLY overrated and there is really no need nor reason to do it unless it is causing the engine to make noise from very excessive build up. Otherwise, it will not hurt a thing. It can actually be beneficial to the extent that it increases the compression ratio and will improve thermodynamic efficiency of the engine.

chevelle
09-12-06, 03:12 PM
Look at this for seafoam
seafoam! - FULLSIZEforums - Chevy Truck (http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205615)

I would not put water in my car to decarbon it water too much water could hydro-lock motor crack pistons water doesn't lubricate! Next time I tear down a motor that has been cleaned with Seafoam I will that pics of it! My son has a ford probe with 250000 miles and have used Seaform regularly,replace head gaskets it looked new inside,Friend of mine has a F 150 with 450000 miles with Seafoam used regularly looks new inside!


So what? I have seen Northstars with 250K on them that were torn down and they looked clean and fine and NEVER had seafoam or anything else put thru them. If the engine was clean it was clean because of the way it was driven and maintained.....not because you poured seafoam thru it. Oh wait....you are a seafoam salesman....LOL LOL

denscor
09-12-06, 03:19 PM
So what? I have seen Northstars with 250K on them that were torn down and they looked clean and fine and NEVER had seafoam or anything else put thru them. If the engine was clean it was clean because of the way it was driven and maintained.....not because you poured seafoam thru it. Oh wait....you are a seafoam salesman....LOL LOL


No I'm not a Seafoam saleman I'm a certified mechanic and a engine builder who has Drag Raced for 24 Years! I don't care if you like Seafoam or not!! Just stating what I have saw!!

dkozloski
09-12-06, 04:10 PM
A coating of carbon on the inside of the combustion chamber saves the heat of combustion for pushing on the piston head rather than going out the radiator. "Every little bit helps.", said the old lady as she took a leak in the ocean.

krimson_cardnal
09-12-06, 08:38 PM
Here's a s imple question for you guys, each in turn now:

How does a driver identify "carbon rap". Does it show up at idle on a cold start - can it be heard at cruising speed - is it evedent under WOT load. Ya'll gotta help me hear.

It's an interesting thread, lot's of heat, and that's a good thing. I'm feeling that the subject is over stated, and the solution can be found in a variety of ways - that's what's nice about the collective experience of this forum.

But, for the average driver - what exactly are the symtoms?

Ranger
09-12-06, 08:55 PM
Cold carbon rap shows up at cold starts and sounds much like a collapsed lifter(s), but goes away as soon as the cylinder warms up (60 seconds or so).

chevelle
09-12-06, 09:10 PM
Carbon rap or cold carbon rap shows up as piston slap (a light, rythmic ticking) when the engine is cold and at idle or just off idle. It is caused by carbon building up on the squish area of the head where the piston comes up close to the deck surface of the head. When the carbon gets thick enough the piston actually touches it at TDC. This upsets the motion of the piston as it crosses TDC causing it to rock in the bore thus making the piston slap noise.

Pistons have the pin offset to one side to force the piston slightly against one side of the bore to prevent the piston from rocking (and causing noise...piston slap) as it crosses TDC. This planned motion is upset by the presence of the carbon hitting the piston which results in the slap.

It is absolutely harmless and will cause no damage or problems...it is just annoying.

The noise is heard primarily when the engine is cold and the pistons have not warmed up and expanded so that they are at their normal designed hot running clearance.

The easiest and quickest way to eliminate the problem is to give the engine a good dose of WOT acceleration frequently to clean the carbon out of the chambers and keep it clean from excessive buildup. Sedentary driving habits will exacerbate the natural tendency for carbon buildup and without doses of WOT to keep the carbon at bay it builds up until it touches the piston.

The NOrthstar is a little more sensitive to the carbon build up because of the tight squish clearances against the heat deck surface. This is desireable for the combustion chamber performance but bad for carbon buildup. Later model Northstars after 2000 have a bit more clearance in the squish areas which virtually eliminates the cold carbon rap issue.

Since it is hard to tell a customer to flog their engine occasionally to prevent the carbon rap noise there is a procedure to run TEC thru the engine, let it soak for awhile and then drive the car on the expressway...i.e..give it a good dose of WOT to accel up to speed. In more extreme cases, there is a procedure to take the plugs out, pump solvent into the chamber, allow it to sit to soften the carbon, pump the solvent out, change the oil and then drive the car on the expressway....to give it a good dose of WOT.

Several things contribute to carbon build up leading to carbon rap. The most prominent reason is driving style..i.e...never opening the throttle very far. Gasoline type can also exacerbate the problem as some fuel sources tend to build more carbon than others. Oil consumption can also speed up the carbon buildup. All are good reasons to rod it occasionally to keep it cleaned out.

chevelle
09-12-06, 09:13 PM
No I'm not a Seafoam saleman I'm a certified mechanic and a engine builder who has Drag Raced for 24 Years! I don't care if you like Seafoam or not!! Just stating what I have saw!!


I'm not doubting what you have seen....you are just ascribing the results to the wrong thing. Seafoam is virtually useless from the testing I have seen. In cases where it is poured thru the throttle body to loosen carbon water would have had the same effect at much less cost. Try using seafoam as a solvent yourself and see if it works that way. It doesn't. If it can't clean dirty parts then I do not understand how it can clean the inside of the engine or do anything useful. It is a marketers dream.....2 cents worth of product that sells for several dollars. The can it comes in is worth more than the product inside.....like most all of the snake oil additives on the market.

By the way.....I'll match your credentials and raise you with 10 more years of experience in the trade.

denscor
09-12-06, 11:24 PM
fastest car have built? i have right now a 9 secound street legal C5. had a 6 second big block nova.

krimson_cardnal
09-13-06, 02:01 AM
Thanks Ranger/chevelle,

In looking this thread over I do understand the additive issue, and doubt I would ever get involved with any of it. I'm understanding the carbon issue sort of like I understand the drilled/slotted rotor issue. Great for competition, but not really that practical for normal street performance.

I'll stick with ceramic pads on quality rotors and the occasional WOT!!!

chevelle
09-13-06, 12:43 PM
fastest car have built? i have right now a 9 secound street legal C5. had a 6 second big block nova.


Fastest I ran with any of my cars or bikes is high tens. But....I have two World Land Speed Records for endurance racing (10,000 kilometers and 25,000 kilometers).....LOL....and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express..!!!

dkozloski
09-13-06, 03:25 PM
Fastest I ran with any of my cars or bikes is high tens. But....I have two World Land Speed Records for endurance racing (10,000 kilometers and 25,000 kilometers).....LOL....and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express..!!!

Olds Aerotech V8?

chevelle
09-13-06, 11:51 PM
Olds Aerotech V8?


Yes.


Also, in drag racing, the team I helped with engine building and tuning held the NHRA National Record several different times for U/SA and T/SA and R/SA. That was done in a number of different FWD Cadillacs back in the late 80's and early 90's. The records were not that fast, low 13's and high 12's, but they were the first time a FWD car held NHRA National Records against RWD cars in the same class. The records eventually expired (after 2 years an NHRA class record expires) and NHRA had "legislated" the cars out of existence by refactoring the factory HP number several different times. Fun while it lasted, though.

dkozloski
09-14-06, 12:23 AM
I had the F/SA NHRA record for a couple of weekends in the early 60's set with a '59 Pontiac at the L.A. County Fairgrounds in Pomona, Ca. I was seriously cheating but never found out. The car had a very rare motor that looked like an economy 215HP but was in fact a 333HP 389 four barrel motor but with the biggest 2 barrel carb I ever saw. It was a factory deal but was the only one I ever heard of. Needless to say the guys doing classification at the strip had never seen one either.

Tricky
09-14-06, 08:53 AM
Hey, I thought this was a Cadillac Forum.
My wifes STS touched 174 on the road near here and still had a fair bit left.
Beat that!!

chevelle
09-14-06, 04:59 PM
Hey, I thought this was a Cadillac Forum.
My wifes STS touched 174 on the road near here and still had a fair bit left.
Beat that!!


Right..... Unless it was an STS-V that had the speed limiter removed I doubt it. Unless, of course, the road led off a cliff with a stiff tailwind....LOL.

dkozloski
09-14-06, 05:18 PM
Hey, I thought this was a Cadillac Forum.
My wifes STS touched 174 on the road near here and still had a fair bit left.
Beat that!!

Kilometers, MPH, or furlongs?

eldorado1
09-14-06, 05:41 PM
You mean furlongs per fortnight.

174 FPF = 0.064 MPH.

:thumbsup:

Submariner409
10-22-06, 11:00 AM
:confused: Back in the Dark Ages, in Jane's Aircraft, I read that some WW II and later aircraft reciprocating engines used a system of water injection in order to prevent WOT detonation and increase power, even though they were running 115/130 avgas. What's to prevent research into the same idea for a high performance automotive engine? Seems as if a one-time shot of snake oil could spell disaster due to the distinct possibility of hydraulic lock in one or more cylinders. (Hydraulic lock...water, oils, allee samee...liquids are incompressible) Once had a leaky head gasket problem on a 327/350 hp '65 Chevelle....the affected pair of cylinders and pistons were as clean as new, but the piston crowns looked as if mice had been chewing on them.....don't want to do that to my '02 N*!

dkozloski
10-22-06, 01:10 PM
:confused: Back in the Dark Ages, in Jane's Aircraft, I read that some WW II and later aircraft reciprocating engines used a system of water injection in order to prevent WOT detonation and increase power, even though they were running 115/130 avgas. What's to prevent research into the same idea for a high performance automotive engine? Seems as if a one-time shot of snake oil could spell disaster due to the distinct possibility of hydraulic lock in one or more cylinders. (Hydraulic lock...water, oils, allee samee...liquids are incompressible) Once had a leaky head gasket problem on a 327/350 hp '65 Chevelle....the affected pair of cylinders and pistons were as clean as new, but the piston crowns looked as if mice had been chewing on them.....don't want to do that to my '02 N*!
The water injection was called ADI and was a mixture of water and alcohol. The alcohol was to prevent high altitude freezeup. Turbocharged Oldsmobile F85's of the 1960's used the same setup with a Garrett turbo.

nigelb
10-22-06, 02:17 PM
getting back to the original subject, i've used restore successfully in the past to 'temporarily' increase compression and it has also helped quieten down a noisy engine, i was unsure where the knock was coming from but it definitely eased off after i used the product.
i have also used a product called 'krause bond' with the same results as above. krause bond is made from Molybdenite (Molybdenum Disulphide) and it was (allegedly) widely used by used car dealers in the UK on cars with turned back odometers in the past.

products like restore and krause bond only really claim to help ease a condition and they always say you need to use the correct amounts and add more product at a later date.
i've only used these products as a short term measure on older cars that weren't worth rebuilding.
i wouldn't like to say that they're going to do a modern hi tech, hi po engine like the N* any good other than when used by unscrupulous sellers to disguise a fault.
there is never any substitute for a proper mechanical repair

dkozloski
10-22-06, 05:57 PM
We used bananas in the transmission and sawdust to quiet a noisey rear end. A handfull of oatmeal takes care of cooling system leaks. A bar of laundry soap rubbed over rustouts in the gas tank seals those leaks. 300W steam cylinder oil added to the crankcase slows down the oil burning and quiets noisey bearings if not overdone. These are some of the reasons it is hard to think well of a man who sells used cars.

sjpi1954
11-03-06, 05:16 PM
Gentlemen,

I've been away for too long. Just finished reading this thread and almost forgotten where I've been since buying the SLS in January off of eBay. I just finished doing the 'Sea Foam Intake System Cleaning' and the ITB Cleaning procedure iaw with this Forum's guidelines. Am I a sucker for 'Snake Oil'? Have I used water in my Dad's HP 383 Dodge at WOT? I guess so to all the above, however, I have never used Restore and don't intend to.

I want to drop my 2 cents here on both procedures. With an '02 N* at 114K miles I immediately saw the carbon/deposit buildup when I pulled the intake hose off the ITB. It was thick. No doubt it had never been cleaned even though the paper trail showed 3 cleanings by the original owner. Reminded me of that Jiffy Lube scam they did in LA three months ago.

I opted for the Sea Foam treatment of the intake and decided to let the car sit overnight instead of the published 5 minutes before cranking the engine and slowly heading for the I-10 at Oh Dark Thirty to do a few WOTs. The IBT Cleaning was exactly as published here on the Forum.

I looked like the Mosquito Man going down the road 20 hours after treating the intake with Sea Foam only worse. Solid IFR Fog Bank behind me and after about 10 minutes of driving the exhaust signature cleared up and the engine ran fine.

I did have the SES light come on several times over a period of about 100 miles but I was never able to pull any codes. Clear All Codes cleared the error after every diagnostic. O2 Sensor? Cat Converters? Evap Canister? Hard to tell because of all the crap I blew out of the engine after the treatment.

200 miles later no codes and my MPGs are actually the same, 27mpg at 70mph, 33mpg at 55mph, but the engine runs smoother, sounds meaner, and I can tell my efforts were only beneficial. 8 ounces in the intake upstream of the ITB vacuumn sources and the remaining 8 ounces in the tank.

I did follow the advice to change the oil afterwards so even though my EOL indicator was at 13% after 12,700 miles, I went ahead and changed the oil after several WOTs.

I guess it really doesn't matter whether or not you use Sea Foam or Distilled Water or Snake Oil but what does matter is that you take the time to clean your intake every 30K along with regulary scheduled services to optimize the life of the N*. I plan on it. Engine Additives? If you get to that point you have other issues.

This is my first Cadillac and I have followed a whole lot of advice on this Forum and for all of the wisdom handed down I am grateful. I'm still not done dialing her in but with my own labor, good advice, a little patience and good tools I am getting there.

IF I ever figure out how to post a picture I'll do that.

Thanks,

JP