: Northstar dimensions



Generalmotorsfan
02-12-04, 05:35 PM
Hey I am new to the board and am looking for some help. I know you guys may think this is crazy, especially since 99% of you are probably caddy faithfuls, but I have been thinking about putting a Northstar engine into my 99' Grand Prix GT. Actually I know it can be done, because there's been Northstars put into them mid 80's fiero's. Now that's crazy!! HA!! I'd love to see one in person.

SO, I have two questions, besides obvious necessary adjustments like exhaust system, transmission, engine mounts, engine (duh), engine craddle, and engine computer, can you think of anything I'd need to deal with to make it work.

I read on Ward's that in 2002 the Northstar layout was "heavily revised to fit longitudinally and drive the rear wheels or all wheels in two '04 Cadillacs, the XLR roadster and SRX" so is that just for RWD's? If it's not then...

my question, I went to the car dealer and measured a 2004 Seville Northstar so i know i have plenty of room to drop that in, but im wondering if you guys could give me the 3 dimensions of the engine for 2000 or 2001.

growe3
02-12-04, 05:58 PM
Due to the complexity of the newer Northstar and their highly integrated electronic system it would be very difficult to impossible to transplant on of these engines in another vehicle, much a non-Cadillac.

If you were to try a 93-94 engine there are a few people that have been successful doing that.

Try asking the people at the link below.

http://www.chrfab.com/

-George

Generalmotorsfan
02-12-04, 07:55 PM
Well actually i have connections, so I am unconcerned with everything at this point except whether the engine would fit in the engine compartment or not. If i had to i could put in a much smaller washer fluid tank and re wire the batter so that it's in the trunk. It's really not that hard, nor expensive to translate all the computers and electric systems from a caddy to anything you want to put it in.

Fiero STS
02-12-04, 08:29 PM
I have two sitting out in the shop I will try and get the demensions for you. Keep in mind there is more to a N* swap than just fitting the engine in the bay. thats the easy part. If you are using a stand alone engine management system it will make things much easier. A S10 transmission will bolt up with some mods for starter clearence and one bolt hole. See the thread on manual trans for flywheel info if using a manual trans.

The new mods for the N* for rear wheel drive are only on the rear wheel drive engines. Basicly they moved the waterpump and crossover to the pelly end of the engine. Most of the parts are not interchangable from what I have read.

Fiero STS
02-12-04, 08:33 PM
[QUOTE=Generalmotorsfan]. Actually I know it can be done, because there's been Northstars put into them mid 80's fiero's. Now that's crazy!! HA!! I'd love to see one in person.

QUOTE]

Where are you at? If your close I could give you a ride.

BeelzeBob
02-13-04, 03:30 PM
Well actually i have connections, so I am unconcerned with everything at this point except whether the engine would fit in the engine compartment or not. If i had to i could put in a much smaller washer fluid tank and re wire the batter so that it's in the trunk. It's really not that hard, nor expensive to translate all the computers and electric systems from a caddy to anything you want to put it in.

If you plan to try and get a 2000 or later Northstar running in a 99 GrandPrix then I hope you have EXCELLENT CONNECTIONS because I know guys that do developement work on those daily that wouldn't try it....LOL

Getting a 2000 or later Northstar engine to run outside of a Cadillac that it came in is exceedingly difficult. You have no idea what sort of electronic problems that you will have to resolve to make it run. Very very difficult to impossible. The aftermarket guys are still trying to hack into the cal just to change the cal much less make the engine run as a standalone item. Good luck.

Realize that the 2000 and later northstars had a completely new electronics architecture and control system. They are coil at plug ignition that requires the PCM to control the coils and ignition as well as the fuel injection. The PCM is a seimens unit that is unlike any of the previous Delphi controllers. It is a "locked" box and can easily be left "brain dead" by the wrong connections and tampering.

The 93-99 systems are much easier to work with as the systems can be made to work standalone in a fashion and there is some info/chips available. The easiest to work on are the 93-95 control systems that are speed density and do not require the MAF sensor. Additionally, on the 93-99 engines the ignition system is a self contained unit with the crank sensors feeding signal to the coil pack/ICM and the ignition will operate independently if feed 12 volts. Plus, many of the aftermarket PCM's such as DFI, Holley, etc. use the Northstar coil pack/ignition system so they are easily adaptable the engine.

The 93-99 Northstar engines and the 2000 and later engines are very different as the cylinder heads and many external parts changed design. In addition, the reluctor wheel on the crankshaft changed substantially along with the crank sensor design and location. Which is to say that the only thing that will run a 2000 and later engine is the factory controller...which is next to impossible to make work outside the car it came in....you cannot put the 93-99 controller or the aftermarket systems on the 2000 and later engines within reason.

BeelzeBob
02-13-04, 03:32 PM
Hey I am new to the board and am looking for some help. I know you guys may think this is crazy, especially since 99% of you are probably caddy faithfuls, but I have been thinking about putting a Northstar engine into my 99' Grand Prix GT. Actually I know it can be done, because there's been Northstars put into them mid 80's fiero's. Now that's crazy!! HA!! I'd love to see one in person.

SO, I have two questions, besides obvious necessary adjustments like exhaust system, transmission, engine mounts, engine (duh), engine craddle, and engine computer, can you think of anything I'd need to deal with to make it work.

I read on Ward's that in 2002 the Northstar layout was "heavily revised to fit longitudinally and drive the rear wheels or all wheels in two '04 Cadillacs, the XLR roadster and SRX" so is that just for RWD's? If it's not then...

my question, I went to the car dealer and measured a 2004 Seville Northstar so i know i have plenty of room to drop that in, but im wondering if you guys could give me the 3 dimensions of the engine for 2000 or 2001.


BTW.....I have a much better idea for you.....

Go buy a 2004 Bonneville GXP. It has a Northstar engine, it is set up and running correctly, it is about the same size as your GP and it will be FAR easier and FAR less expensive to just buy the new GXP with the Northstar than to try and make the 99 GP work with a NOrthstar.....LOL

JohnnyLfromCT
02-13-04, 03:36 PM
*bows to the master of the Northstar engine* :worship:

If I were a female, or gay, I'd ask Bbobynski to marry me... :D

customGTP
02-15-04, 10:21 PM
ANY QUESTIONS?
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337703_163_full.jpg

and...

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337703_173_full.jpg

customGTP
02-15-04, 10:38 PM
the second vehicle is an Intrigue OSV :)
The only structural change you will need to do is widen the ID dimention of the engine craddle. Very simple. Also USE THE OLDER MOTORS AND ECM's!!!!

BeelzeBob
02-16-04, 03:35 PM
ANY QUESTIONS?
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337703_163_full.jpg

and...

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337703_173_full.jpg


Nice cut and past job on the pictures....LOL

customGTP
02-16-04, 04:19 PM
thanx, thats my site....

NoCaddy
02-18-04, 04:24 PM
Hey I am new to the board and am looking for some help. I know you guys may think this is crazy, especially since 99% of you are probably caddy faithfuls, but I have been thinking about putting a Northstar engine into my 99' Grand Prix GT. Actually I know it can be done, because there's been Northstars put into them mid 80's fiero's. Now that's crazy!! HA!! I'd love to see one in person.


They are impressive. So are Fieros with...

SBC's of all sorts, including LTx and LSx.
3800's of all sorts
Quad4's
Turbocharged/supercharged V6's
Oh, and Cadillac 4.9L's. I've driven two -- one automatic, one 5-speed. What a blast! :bouncy:

Since I own about a half dozen of those cars, I can say with a fair bit of confidence that the Fiero's engine bay probably has nearly as much room as the Grand Prix. The track on the car is the same as the X-car (Citation) and is deceptively wide.