: Gonna Have to LIve with the Lifter Tick



Elmer Fudd
08-13-06, 03:05 PM
Well I have tried everything (well nearly so) and my 99 concours still ticks under the back valve cover. The dealer said it was a lifter and just drive it till it quits (7000 miles ago). I am pretty sure that is the coprrect diagnosis because it comes and goes...some days you cannot hear it at all. PLus with the hood up you can hear that classic rise and fall of the volume evey few seconds.

In the car 50% of the time you cannot notice it. At highway speeds you cannot notice it. With the radio on or even the AC blowing full, you can't hear it, so I'm just going to have to ignore it.

For the record, here is what I tried (along with occasional WOT runs):

CD2
Seafoam for about 30 miles (got paraniod about that much solvent)
(changed oil)

Marvel Mystery oil
(changed oil)

MOA (reccomended by local mechanic)
Gunk Quick Lifter Fix Solvent (about 20 miles)

Well got frustrated, drained out the MOA and the Gunk Solvent. Put in 6 quarts of Castrol 10w-30 hi milage and 1 1/2 quarts of Lucas. I figure if I cannot quiet it at least I will lub the heck out of it. After all that, if it was something that would dissolve, it would have by this time.

THe car runs great...accelerates like a rocket.THe tech at the dealer said good chance it will last another 100K with the noise. (as have other mechanics) I said , "how drastic an alternative would mechanical repair be?" She said 3 - 4K $ !! I answered "Ya, that is pretty drastic !":eek:

Why 3-4k for new lifters?? Do they have to take the engine out?:confused:

What would be a fair price from an independant shop?:bigroll:

Thanks

eldorado1
08-13-06, 04:04 PM
Lifters can get expensive, but you should be able to pinpoint it by wiggling the lifters. As I recall they're about $30 each.

Then all you need are the timing chain tensioner-holder-thingies, and swap 'em out. If it's the front bank, it'll be a cinch.

I figure maybe 8 hours of labor, + parts = $430

Have you tried using a thinner oil with more detergents? If it's just crud holding the checkball open, the detergents will get it with time. If it's an air bubble, the thinner oil will get it with time.

Elmer Fudd
08-13-06, 04:12 PM
The CD2 is a detergent, but I was useing 10w30 oil with it....lighter oil I have not tried.

And naturally it is on the back bank of cylinders...not the front:crybaby:

chazglenn3
08-14-06, 04:10 PM
Yeah, I have tried everything but actually changing the offending lifter on my car, too. Lucky for me, the lifter is on my front bank. However, of more concern to me right now is the massive oil leak caused by the solvents and detergents I used to try to free up the lifter by way of my half case seal. That major expense first, then the lifter later.

Elmer Fudd
08-14-06, 08:10 PM
Yeah, I have tried everything but actually changing the offending lifter on my car, too. Lucky for me, the lifter is on my front bank. However, of more concern to me right now is the massive oil leak caused by the solvents and detergents I used to try to free up the lifter by way of my half case seal. That major expense first, then the lifter later.


OUCH !!....sorry to hear that.....that is why I didn't leave the seafoam or gunk in for more than a couple dozen miles.

The Lucas seems to have "softened" it a bit. It used to sound like a pencil tapping on a wood desk. Now it sounds like a hollow tube tapping.....and at least I can be sure the Lucas won't cause a leak....

chazglenn3
08-14-06, 08:54 PM
I would be very careful with the Lucas also. See the following link from a previous thread:

What about Additives? (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm)

jss
08-14-06, 10:27 PM
Elmer,

They get 3-4k for replacing lifters? My guess is they won't do it without doing a valve job. When my dealer did my head gasket ($1800) they told me that to pull the back head required removing the engine. I wouldn't think that replacing the lifters would require pulling the engine. If you're that unhappy with the noise, it might pay to try another dealer?

Good luck, Jeff

Elmer Fudd
08-15-06, 02:53 PM
Thanks for input Jss. Good to know that their price was at least a bit high. Gonna wait a while now. The hi milage oil and the Lucas seems to have muffled it a significant amount. It is a little more apparent on cold starts (I guess due to the thicker lubricant) but it quickly quiets down pretty good now.

Crossing fingers........:rolleyes:

Ranger
08-16-06, 09:14 PM
Thanks for input Jss. Good to know that their price was at least a bit high. Gonna wait a while now. The hi milage oil and the Lucas seems to have muffled it a significant amount. It is a little more apparent on cold starts (I guess due to the thicker lubricant) but it quickly quiets down pretty good now.
Crossing fingers........:rolleyes:
Are you sure we are not dealing with "cold carbon rap"?

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 08:35 AM
Are you sure we are not dealing with "cold carbon rap"?

Well nothing is certain. Here is what the maint. history from the dealer says:

Miles: 105001
Complaint: Clicking noise under hood towards firewall, clicks more or faster with increased accerleration, hear it best with hood up
Cause: Internal engine noise. Sounds like lifter on back bank of cylinders. Need to drive car untill noise quits. This noise would not be found if tore into engine. Car may last like this.

Then:

Miles: 109641
Complaint: De-carbon engine for cold knock/oil consumption
Correction: De-carbon engine. Note 111 still has some noise at times
They also tuned the engine, lubed, tranny flush, etc. at this point.

Then she traded it in........

Now the noise I hear IS on the back bank of cylinders and is just as described in the first complaint. As for the carbon knock, perhaps they changed their minds at that point and tried the de-carboning.

The noise does not go away after the engine heats up. It comes abd goes at random it seems. However, I can almost always make it come under gentle acceleration, at about 2000 revs. (plus and minus) when it goes through 2nd and 3rd gears. You almost never hear it at higher speeds or uunder harder accelerations. Plus it has that classic rise and fall in volume at idle, about every 5 secs. It is not a really solid or heavy sound, more like a hollow pvc pipe tapping on a hard surface. I have never given it the full WOT treatment, only now and then in "normal" driving as is prudent. I did do the second gear thingy, but only 2 runs.

Perhaps another decarbon?? I dunno.......

chazglenn3
08-17-06, 01:33 PM
I would save the money and "decarbon" the engine myself on my favorite freeway on-ramp. I am quite sure :D that my car has no excess carbon, just a bad lifter that may or may not get addressed. Like the mechanic said of your car "it may last". I do have to get the half case seal leak and a power steering line leak fixed, however. Did you read the link about the Lucas? If so, what do you think?

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 02:41 PM
Did you read the link about the Lucas? If so, what do you think?

Yes, but you can get opinions and tests to go any way. The dealer said there is nothing wrong with trying Lucas and it definately made it quieter so I'm not worried. Next oil change I think I may try that Rotella 15w-40 people have talked about, without the lucas at first and see how that does.

chazglenn3
08-17-06, 03:31 PM
I have considered the Rotella also...that is the truck oil, right? I just finished reading through some threads about it, and plan to try that next. Thanks for reminding me about it!

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 04:00 PM
Yes, the tech at my dealership said they have put up to a 50W oil in higher milage cars, to boost oil pressure. I expected them to give me the party line from GM ...i.e. "no additives, only recommended oil." But they said a higher weight oil will be fine.

For what it is worth, I had a 84 olds Cutlass long ago, (305 V8) that developed a pretty significant rear main seal leak. It would leave a spot the size of my hand every night. The mechanic gave me an estimate (which was a bunch :crybaby: ) and he said, try a heavier oil...it should reduce it. So i did. The leak stopped completely, and stayed stopped for years until I sold the car.......:highfive:

Can't hurt to try.......

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 04:02 PM
I have considered the Rotella also...that is the truck oil, right? I just finished reading through some threads about it, and plan to try that next. Thanks for reminding me about it!

Oh, and yes, i saw the Rotella at Wal mart with the diesel stuff....:eek:

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 04:14 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/82258-89-deville-oil-questions.html

A short metion of the Rotella oil......by people that seem to know about these cars.

EDBSO
08-17-06, 08:02 PM
No personal knowledge but grom all I have read this works wonders. (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003792)

Elmer Fudd
08-17-06, 08:13 PM
No personal knowledge but grom all I have read this works wonders. (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003792)

Yes I have read about that stuff to....thanks...:)