Hey, whats the deal with the stage-1 GP from Hotchkis? Responses I get from emails (when i get them) just tell me shipping is getting pushed back, forum members are commenting on recieving old inferior pieces with out collars in the sways; we wern't expecting to recieve this model (yesterday an additional second person got these old bars). Whats good can we have some answers please.

We were told that we would be getting a redesigned model of the sway bars. This is the only reason I bought them at all. I was not interested in getting swaybars that needed some kind of a jury rigged fix (which I havent even been given anyway). I sent an email to your company and was told they would look into it. That was about 2 weeks ago.

Hello?

also, it would be good to make sure the company whose products you are offering actually have them in stock so that I dont have to wait this long for a product I paid for over a month ago without any feedback as to when my product is actually going to arrive

:yeah: I was thinking how the heck were they so comfortable about charging my credit card when they knew they didnt have them in stock, and didnt research how far they are backordered. Come on 90% of online vendors wont charge you until it is shipped. This could warrant a call to the better business beauro.
:mob:

When the group purchase first came about we contacted Hotchkis about this problem. We were told that the problem had been corrected and the sets that were sent out as part of the GP would be fine. We have since found out that what Hotchkis meant as "correcting" the problem was actually enclosing a set of aluminum rings to take care of it. They said they will not be manufacturing the bars with the rings welded on for about 6 months once their current stock is depleted. The current reason for the delay is that the bars have not been released from the coaters yet. They are still being coated. They expect them to be ready to ship by the end of this week or the first part of next week.

Sounds like some of you didn't read the guidelines that are in the Group Purchase section of our website -

IMPORTANT INFO: Most products to fill each GP are ordered at the end of the GP. They usually take 1-2 weeks to ship from here, but some items could take longer based on the size of the group purchase and availability with the manufacturer. Depending on the product and our available stock, some orders will be shipped from here shortly after the GP comes to a close. Remember, you need to place your order if you are interested in taking part in a GP. Be sure to check the status of the GP that you are part of on it's closing date to see if is going through.

MORE IMPORTANT INFO: All credit cards are processed a few days before the GP closes to insure everything will go through without a problem and to lock in the order. Orders canceled after your GP order has been processed will be subject to a 20% processing fee. Orders for products that are non-stock items (not normally kept in stock) can not be canceled so be sure that you would like to be part of the GP before you place your order.

WHEN SHOULD YOU PLACE YOUR ORDER?: We find that alot of people wait for the required number of orders to be placed before they get in on the GP. If everyone does this the GP minimum is never met. If you would definitely like to join one of the group purchases that are listed it will be best to place your order as soon as possible. Your credit card won't be charged until just before the GP comes to a close (as long as there are enough orders) and the minimum will be met much sooner. This will allow you and the other participants to take advantage of the savings.

We have no problem selling these at the regular retail prices. Doing a GP we say ok, we'll make less for each sale if there are "x" number of orders. Everything is then special ordered for the GP when it wraps up. That provides the customer with a very good discount but the product can take longer to ship. Ordering at the regular price will sometimes speed things up because they would just be taken from stock. This GP turned out to be pretty big (40-50 orders?) so we cleaned Hotchkis out of some part numbers. Those actually shipped sooner than they were supposed to.

Ok that is good news that they are working on the corrected front sway bar design. Will I then be sent that bar since this one was not suppose to be sent to me?

Thank you for your help in this matter. I wouldnt want this to taint my service with you. It was nice of you to offer us this GP.

Tbyrne, I appreciate your response to our concerns and bringing light to the situation. Being that we are valued customers how are you going to handle these problems. I hope that you would agree that having to wait over two months after making payment and subsequently incurring interest on this payment is an inconvienience. We put alot of trust in you to deliver a sound product, and it seems that in whatever manner Hotchiks repaired this problem is only a temporary fix as indicated in the V forums, and based off the CTS forum no one even recieved a fix. So now i stand and ask what now, where do you stand, how will you help us both in regards to the bars and in regards to this overly extended period of anticipation. Thanks

Sounds like some of you didn't read the guidelines that are in the Group Purchase section of our website

well, considering you told us we could place our orders over the phone, it wouldn't surprise me that some of us didn't read these "guidelines" that are on your website

They expect them to be ready to ship by the end of this week or the first part of next week.

You sure about this or is this the standard answer you give to any question involving the delivery of a product? I have been told this at least 3 times myself and every single time it has gotten pushed back AGAIN. Why do we have someone else from your company telling us that Hotchkis isn't even going to get you the parts until at least 8/25? Then you have to tack on another couple of weeks for shipping from you to the customer.

Those actually shipped sooner than they were supposed to.

Well ladi-freakin-da. Thanks for letting us know that you are only compitent (sp?) about half the time. Stop making the excuse that you shipped some parts to some people earlier than expected. I don't have my parts and I don't know when I will. This statement doesn't serve me at all, in fact it just makes me more mad.

We have no problem selling these at the regular retail prices.

sweet, next time I need a part for my car, the hell with calling the company that makes it and getting it from them...man, I'll just call you guys and get it 3 months later.

We have since found out that what Hotchkis meant as "correcting" the problem was actually enclosing a set of aluminum rings to take care of it. They said they will not be manufacturing the bars with the rings welded on for about 6 months once their current stock is depleted.

Sounds like someone didn't read the brochure before offering a GP and selling people a faulty product.

Originally Posted by tbyrne
We have since found out that what Hotchkis meant as "correcting" the problem was actually enclosing a set of aluminum rings to take care of it. They said they will not be manufacturing the bars with the rings welded on for about 6 months once their current stock is depleted.

I received my Stage1 kit yesterday. Unfortunately the bars did not come with the aluminum rings. Will you please get them for me?

Thanks.

well, considering you told us we could place our orders over the phone, it wouldn't surprise me that some of us didn't read these "guidelines" that are on your website

You sure about this or is this the standard answer you give to any question involving the delivery of a product? I have been told this at least 3 times myself and every single time it has gotten pushed back AGAIN. Why do we have someone else from your company telling us that Hotchkis isn't even going to get you the parts until at least 8/25? Then you have to tack on another couple of weeks for shipping from you to the customer.

Well ladi-freakin-da. Thanks for letting us know that you are only compitent(sp?) about half the time. Stop making the excuse that you shipped some parts to some people earlier than expected. I don't have my parts and I don't know when I will. This statement doesn't serve me at all, in fact it just makes me more mad.

sweet, next time I need a part for my car, the hell with calling the company that makes it and getting it from them...man, I'll just call you guys and get it 3 months later.

Sounds like someone didn't read the brochure before offering a GP and selling people a faulty product.

pmpott: I'll reply to you when you can provide a more mature response.

Talked to Hotchkis about the other bars. They consider the aluminum rings to be a product update (corrected version - retrofit kit). The other bars that were mentioned won't be available for about 6 months. Those will have the same rings but they will be welded on. If you guys don't want the bars with the rings now, those can be returned to Hotchkis. There wouldn't be any $ compensation for the current backorders. I agree that some of these are taking longer than planned. They were supposed to start shipping the week of 7/17 so we're now at about 3 weeks longer for the rest of them. I apologize for that. No control over their product or stock.

pmpott: I'll reply to you when you can provide a more mature response.

honestly, there was maybe one statement in that whole response that could be considered immature. The rest were factual statements based on your horrid customer service. Wake up and smell the flowers buddy

They were supposed to start shipping the week of 7/17 so we're now at about 3 weeks longer for the rest of them. I apologize for that.

nice attempt, and a step in the right direction, but you've got a long way to go. You can start by replying to the people who apparently are more mature than myself and let them know how they can get this "upgrade" you speak of that was not included with their original order (as was promised by you)

No control over their product or stock
you are correct, but you do have control over your customer service and reputation, and right now that ship is sinking. It doesn't matter if Hotchkis is screwing you in the ass, you shouldn't turn around and do the same to your own customers and you DEFINATELY shouldn't try to put the blame on us

Originally Posted by tbyrne

I received my Stage1 kit yesterday. Unfortunately the bars did not come with the aluminum rings. Will you please get them for me?

Thanks.

If i were you, and what I am most likely going to do is hold on to them and do not install them. When the proper sways are available, exchange them, these are what we were under the impression we were buying, these are what we were promised, and it is the duty of the seller to provide functioning parts especially when you are paying $400. I can not believe despite the calls and emails they have been receiving they continue to send these defective sways out.


Tbyrne,
Do you intend to exchange these shifty sway bars for something that will be stable and stabilize my car when they are released. I would like the sways Hotchkis is manufacturing correctly, not the part to correct the problem to be included seperately. Cadillacs are known for their whisper quiet rides, and this clunking caused by these bars is unacceptable. If the bars product description included shifts under load turns causing clunking noise do u believe this GP would have gone through. I believe you may have got these from Hotchkis dirt cheap and unloaded them on us and now u may be backpedaling trying to sort the mess out. because these vertical mounts are something new to the design and an obvious flaw.

Furthermore, I feel because of all the frustration i have had to deal with in these 2 months and counting I should be refunded my S&H money. In fact, when i made my purchase someone from your office offered me express shipping at like $80 what if i would have done this? Because there was a point and time where i was overly excited to get this on my car. Despite what problems exist with Hotchkis we have to deal with you just as you must deal with us. Refunding my and other members S&H is the least you can do as a vendor to regain customer support and take some type of responsibility. Or in my package which has not been shipped compensate me in another way throw in a MAF sensor. There are several things you the seller can do to appease your clients when the unexpected happens. You can not continue to dodge all types concerns and continue to pass the buck. As a seller your customers are the most valuable asset to your business, and frankly you are retailing to a high end market and we expect more, much more. Pretend u are Nemius Markus how would they rectify the situation???

Would it be possible if I could get a response? The only thing I want is the right part. You have no idea how aweful I feel that I got taken advantage of and even worse my car sounds horrible. Im not making more of it than it is. Its so embarassing. Im scared that you are going to ignore me and leave me do deal with this myself. I dont care how other people handle this situation but all I want is for my brand new car that I paid so much hard earned money for to ride quite. Please help.

Thank you

:yeah: That is some scencerity if i ever heard it!!! :yeah:

Originally Posted by tbyrne

We have since found out that what Hotchkis meant as "correcting" the problem was actually enclosing a set of aluminum rings to take care of it. They said they will not be manufacturing the bars with the rings welded on for about 6 months once their current stock is depleted.

I received my Stage1 kit yesterday. Unfortunately the bars did not come with the aluminum rings. Will you please get them for me?

Thanks.

We'll need your name to take care of this for you. Can you give us a call or e-mail with that info.



honestly, there was maybe one statement in that whole response that could be considered immature. The rest were factual statements based on your horrid customer service. Wake up and smell the flowers buddy

Actually, I counted 5 comments in that post that weren't required. The freshly cut grass and ocean smell pretty good over here today.


nice attempt, and a step in the right direction, but you've got a long way to go. You can start by replying to the people who apparently are more mature than myself and let them know how they can get this "upgrade" you speak of that was not included with their original order (as was promised by you)

You need to step off your box because I have no reason to accept suggestions from you. My replies here cover the questions that need answers.

you are correct, but you do have control over your customer service and reputation, and right now that ship is sinking. It doesn't matter if Hotchkis is screwing you in the ass, you shouldn't turn around and do the same to your own customers and you DEFINATELY shouldn't try to put the blame on us

We're not screwing our customers in the ass. That isn't a preferred location. We're also not putting the blame on them. I didn't say "hey, it's the customer's fault that the rest of the swaybars are at the coaters".


If i were you, and what I am most likely going to do is hold on to them and do not install them. When the proper sways are available, exchange them, these are what we were under the impression we were buying, these are what we were promised, and it is the duty of the seller to provide functioning parts especially when you are paying $400. I can not believe despite the calls and emails they have been receiving they continue to send these defective sways out.

Tbyrne,

Do you intend to exchange these shifty sway bars for something that will be stable and stabilize my car when they are released. I would like the sways Hotchkis is manufacturing correctly, not the part to correct the problem to be included seperately. Cadillacs are known for their whisper quiet rides, and this clunking caused by these bars is unacceptable. If the bars product description included shifts under load turns causing clunking noise do u believe this GP would have gone through. I believe you may have got these from Hotchkis dirt cheap and unloaded them on us and now u may be backpedaling trying to sort the mess out. because these vertical mounts are something new to the design and an obvious flaw.

Furthermore, I feel because of all the frustration i have had to deal with in these 2 months and counting I should be refunded my S&H money. In fact, when i made my purchase someone from your office offered me express shipping at like $80 what if i would have done this? Because there was a point and time where i was overly excited to get this on my car. Despite what problems exist with Hotchkis we have to deal with you just as you must deal with us. Refunding my and other members S&H is the least you can do as a vendor to regain customer support and take some type of responsibility. Or in my package which has not been shipped compensate me in another way throw in a MAF sensor. There are several things you the seller can do to appease your clients when the unexpected happens. You can not continue to dodge all types concerns and continue to pass the buck. As a seller your customers are the most valuable asset to your business, and frankly you are retailing to a high end market and we expect more, much more. Pretend u are Nemius Markus how would they rectify the situation???


Hotchkis considers the current bars with the rings to be fine. We as a vendor rely on what they tell us until we see different. The old issue with brought to our attention, so we checked with Hotchkis to see what was going on. They told us that had been corrected so there was no reason to think that it hadn't. The manufacturer and vendor wouldn't want to knowingly sell products that are going to cause a problem.

We are all getting frustrated with the delay and not the issue with the rings. Hotchkis is saying they are fine and some people are saying they aren't. I'll see what else they have to say today. As of yesterday, everything was supposed to be fine with these. Yes, the Cadillac is a high end market car and you expect much more.. You want Nemius Markus products for your high end vehicle but only want to pay K-Mart prices. That doesn't leave anything on the table to start throwing in free MAF sensors or other parts. Full retail for these through Hotchkis is $639.99.


Would it be possible if I could get a response? The only thing I want is the right part. You have no idea how aweful I feel that I got taken advantage of and even worse my car sounds horrible. Im not making more of it than it is. Its so embarassing. Im scared that you are going to ignore me and leave me do deal with this myself. I dont care how other people handle this situation but all I want is for my brand new car that I paid so much hard earned money for to ride quite. Please help.

Thank you

Sorry, I thought I covered your question in part of my reply from yesterday.

What we need here is for the mudslinging to stop and for some people to stop bashing the vendor (these aren't directed towards you 04 CTS Raven). What I need from the people that have their swaybars is for you to tell me how they are. Something like "Hi, I received the Hotchkis swaybars during the GP and they are doing this....". Some might be fine while others have said they don't sound good. I can then take that info to Hotchkis and show them the issues. Like I said before, I don't need bad bars going out because it becomes a headache for everyone.

So can you tell me the problem you are having with this? Did it start happening as soon as the bars were installed and it an issue that keeps happening? Thanks!

Tbyrne,

Thanks for your reply. I will send you an email with address, phone #, etc. right now.

I haven't installed the bars or springs yet. I just inventoried the parts and instructions and looked specifically for the aluminum collars... they are not there. I'm going to have the springs professionally installed and the car realigned. I intend to let the pro's install the bars then also. The guy handling the installation and alignment at Lindsay Cadillac is a V owner, has the Hotchkis bars and is intimately familiar with the clunk problem and the AL collar fix. I have an appointment for Wednesday 30 August to have this done. Consequently I would really appreciate getting the collars before then

Thanks.

Carol at tbyrne sent me the following.

---- Carol <carol@tbyrnemotorsports.com> wrote:
>> Ben-
>> I requested that those rings be shipped out today. You should see them
>> in
>> about 4 days. I apologize for all the problems with the communication on
>> this piece. I was just told something different from Hotchkis when we
>> opened the GP. I was told this had been corrected. Their idea of
>> correcting the problem was doing a retro fit kit for it. If you do not
>> see
>> those rings in 4 business days, please contact me.
>> Thank you,
>> Carol

Looks to me like they are working the problem as well as we can expect.

I was going to leave this subject alone because it is very apparent that tbyrne does not see the error in his/her shoddy business practices and terrible customer service. However, it has come to my attention that we were all mislead in the GP and sold a defective product.

This situation has been discussed to great lengths on this forum, but unlike the members of this forum, Hotchkis was apparently unaware of the problems with their sway bars on the CTS. During the GP, tbyrne made it clear that they had contacted Hotchkis and questioned them about the issues with their product on the CTS and then led everyone participating in their GP to believe they would be recieving a product that had been upgraded to deal with this problem. This was not the case because as stated before, Hotchkis was unaware of any problem. There was never an upgrade to the CTS sway bars.

*EDIT*: It would be different if the products were shipped by Tbyrne without any knowledge of the problem. But the fact that they stated there was an upgrade to the known issue and that it would be included in all purchases is a flat out lie

At this point Tbyrne, you are only "bashing" yourself.

PS- You can leave me all the negative feedback you want for not being "mature on a public forum." I got news for you, it is a public forum. I can express my opinion however I see fit. The only thing I have tried to do is get answers from you and really, the whole process is like pulling teeth. I really never expected it to go this far and I would have had no problem if I felt I was being treated fairly and honestly.

It's not like we thought "hey, these swaybars are going to be questionable but let's see if we can sneek them in under the radar". One thing that I noticed yesterday, Hotchkis upgraded the CTS-V swaybars. The CTS bars are supposed to be fine. Looking at this thread, only one person replied with the info that I asked for so there doesn't seem to be a problem like your making it out to be. He has been in contact with Hotchkis. They are working that out now.

I might have replied in a thread about the swaybar upgrade at one time. Looked around a few minutes ago but couldn't find it. Let me know if you come across that link.

As for the feedback, I was just returning the favor :)

Honestly, i dont know what to think about anything anymore, usally i am a clear headded organized guy, maybe u can tell by the way i post. I never try to offed i only seek answers, assistance, and try to help when it is needed. But Tbyrne has really got my head spinning. i dont even know what to expect in my shippment anymore. i dont know if i am getting sways with aluminum O rings or if there are no O rings for the non V CTS. I feel like my valid questions are being responded to with answers that have been falsifyed in order to silence me. Now when that happens it angers me.

I think what i said earlier is the most factual thing in this thread and it was an asumption that was vendicated by Tbyrne himself (it may be a combination from a few threads again my head is spinning from the circles TB is running): I hypothesized that TB got these at a super bargin basement price ane was looking to unload them without knowing what he secured. He replied something in the regards to paying k-mart prices and we expect superior service and products. Him selling us a $600 kit for $400 was our first sign he got this riddiculously cheap. and the fact that he nor carols answers stay consistant show us his information he is recieving is not reliable, so maybe his wholeseller is Kmart. And maybe TB doesnt regard us highly so we are just stuck at his mercy for whatever he may do.
i dont know why he doesnt feel waiting warrants a return in S&H (he must really need every dollar to keep his business running), i dont know why compensation with complementry parts is beyond his means (maybe he doesnt feel he is putting additional burden on the consumer). But the fact remains that parts are not working as designed and parts have not arived. never know if i got my sways and put them on it might work flawlessly and i could help some forum members adress the problem.

And here i sit in front of the computer in anticipation of what he will say next. PT barnum said it best "a sucker is born every minute." And my Investments teacher taught me a hell of a life lesson: "in every deal someone is getting screwed, if you cant tell you are screwing the other person it is probably u!"

Honestly, i dont know what to think about anything anymore, usally i am a clear headded organized guy, maybe u can tell by the way i post. I never try to offed i only seek answers, assistance, and try to help when it is needed. But Tbyrne has really got my head spinning. i dont even know what to expect in my shippment anymore. i dont know if i am getting sways with aluminum O rings or if there are no O rings for the non V CTS. I feel like my valid questions are being responded to with answers that have been falsifyed in order to silence me. Now when that happens it angers me.

I think what i said earlier is the most factual thing in this thread and it was an asumption that was vendicated by Tbyrne himself (it may be a combination from a few threads again my head is spinning from the circles TB is running): I hypothesized that TB got these at a super bargin basement price ane was looking to unload them without knowing what he secured. He replied something in the regards to paying k-mart prices and we expect superior service and products. Him selling us a $600 kit for $400 was our first sign he got this riddiculously cheap. and the fact that he nor carols answers stay consistant show us his information he is recieving is not reliable, so maybe his wholeseller is Kmart. And maybe TB doesnt regard us highly so we are just stuck at his mercy for whatever he may do.
i dont know why he doesnt feel waiting warrants a return in S&H (he must really need every dollar to keep his business running), i dont know why compensation with complementry parts is beyond his means (maybe he doesnt feel he is putting additional burden on the consumer). But the fact remains that parts are not working as designed and parts have not arived. never know if i got my sways and put them on it might work flawlessly and i could help some forum members adress the problem.

And here i sit in front of the computer in anticipation of what he will say next. PT barnum said it best "a sucker is born every minute." And my Investments teacher taught me a hell of a life lesson: "in every deal someone is getting screwed, if you cant tell you are screwing the other person it is probably u!"

Your investment teacher might have also taught you that a company has to make money to stay in business :) Vendors don't make much during a group purchase. So, out of that little bit payroll has to be met along with taxes, a building to pay for and all of the other costs associated with business. We're not just handed million dollar buildings stocked with inventory and then go from there. So there is no way that we've be tossing in other parts at no charge because of a delay. Kind of like when I ordered my C6. It wasn't made for about 10 months after I ordered. It would have been nice if the dealer tossed in a free H2 for my wait but they can't do that and production was out of their hands. They have no control over that.

Just so we are clear, the CTS-V swaybars come with O-rings. The V6 CTS bars do not. Somewhere along the line the conversation might have turned to the updated bars and for some reason (either my fault of the person that posted) it was said the V6 bars had been updated. That isn't the case. Hotchkis told us there is nothing wrong with those. The V6 bars are a different size than the V8.

As for the delay for the rest of the part numbers, again I am sorry about that. We have no control over how fast the coater finishes that batch.

Greetings, I am writing to be updated on the status of my stage-1 hotchkis purchased 6/06. Last i was told is that the parts are being painted and will be in your shop to be mailed to me on the 25th. Did the parts arrive, or have they been delayed further? Thankyou.

Greetings, I am writing to be updated on the status of my stage-1 hotchkis purchased 6/06. Last i was told is that the parts are being painted and will be in your shop to be mailed to me on the 25th. Did the parts arrive, or have they been delayed further? Thankyou.

We've been receiving products from Hotchkis over the last few weeks. Can you give us a call or e-mail tbyrne@tbyrne.com with your name so we can check on this for you.

Thanks!

We've been receiving products from Hotchkis over the last few weeks. Can you give us a call or e-mail tbyrne@tbyrne.com with your name so we can check on this for you.

Thanks!

i called and you are closed until monday. My name is Ryan Reedom email rreedom@gmail.com if someone could contact me it will be appreciated 404-387-3318.

Someone will be able to check on this for you on Monday.

Have a good weekend!

Have the Hotchkis parts arrived yet???

A bunch of them will be leaving here in about 20 minutes.

I got the tracking number :bouncy::D :yup: :halo: :canttalk:

Time to find a quality shop to do the install