: Sad ending...



noahsdad
08-06-06, 10:29 PM
Spent the weekend in Lansing Aug 5-6. Lots of changes going on there. The Craft Center, where Oldsmobile built engines from the 50s through the 80s, and later the site where the Buick Reatta was built, is almost gone. This massive facility - almost 1.2 million square feet, is being demolished, melted down, and recycled.


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e152/mindstage/CraftCenterDemo-Small.jpg


Just down the street, the old Oldsmobile Administration building sits empty, as it has since 2004. It soon will be gone also.


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e152/mindstage/OldsBuilding-Small.jpg

Across ML King Blvd. from the Craft Center is the Metal Fab Division, formerly Fisher Body. That plant will be closed in '07 and demolished. Lansing still has Grand River (for the time being at least), which has won JD Power's award for best manufacturing plant for quality in North America three times, and the new Delta plant, which employs just over 400 people.

On the bright side, I had a chance to visit the R.E. Olds Transportation Museum today. Anyone who loves that brand, or is interested in GM in general needs to visit this place. It's small, and only has about 50 cars on display, but every one is just breathtaking: Anyone ever heard of the Darth Vader Cutlass of 1983? It's there and it's mind boggling. Also the Aerotech, the twin engine Olds 442 Hurst drag car, and the 1952 Nascar Champion Olds Rocket 88.

Stoneage_Caddy
08-06-06, 11:10 PM
Its really sad .....Id like to go see the museum sometime , the aerotech was a incredible peice of machinery



http://www.fe3x.com/
darth cutlass , neat car ....

codewize
08-06-06, 11:18 PM
That is sad. I hate to see things like that.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-06-06, 11:52 PM
That is so sad, yet that perfectly embodies what is going on in GM and detroit right now.

Sandy
08-07-06, 12:19 AM
Olds = dead
Lincoln Town Car = Dying soon
Mercury = Comatose
Ford = Ill
Chevy = Condition = Good
Pontiac = Guarded Condition
Buick = Guarded Condition
Cadillac = Improving, almost healthy

So, can we hear a rousing rendition of the Toyota theme song ?
C'mon....OH WHAT A FEELING
THAT should be the caption under that picture.

Damn Foreign Cars. I've never owned one, and never ever will, and I have NEVER owned a "lemon" ! Never!!

Long ago I propossed a plan for G.W. Bush, but many poo pooed it.

$3,000 tax penality to anyone who buys a new foreign car & a $3,000 tax cut to anyone who buys a new Domestic from Ford or GM.
That sure woulda kick started the domestics. But no.....
You can bet your honDUH that Japan woulda done it, if it was all reversed.

But, you see, there is no pride or loyality to anything AMERICAN any longer in the majority of Americans under age 50.

I forsee the day when less than 10% of EVERYTHING we sell is made in America. Depression awaits your children.

Caddy Man
08-07-06, 03:20 AM
Olds = dead
Lincoln Town Car = Dying soon
Mercury = Comatose
Ford = Ill
Chevy = Condition = Good
Pontiac = Guarded Condition
Buick = Guarded Condition
Cadillac = Improving, almost healthy

So, can we hear a rousing rendition of the Toyota theme song ?
C'mon....OH WHAT A FEELING
THAT should be the caption under that picture.

Damn Foreign Cars. I've never owned one, and never ever will, and I have NEVER owned a "lemon" ! Never!!

Long ago I propossed a plan for G.W. Bush, but many poo pooed it.

$3,000 tax penality to anyone who buys a new foreign car & a $3,000 tax cut to anyone who buys a new Domestic from Ford or GM.
That sure woulda kick started the domestics. But no.....
You can bet your honDUH that Japan woulda done it, if it was all reversed.

But, you see, there is no pride or loyality to anything AMERICAN any longer in the majority of Americans under age 50.

I forsee the day when less than 10% of EVERYTHING we sell is made in America. Depression awaits your children.

But sandy what about all the AMERICAN companies opening up places elsewhere...right now there are plenty of ''amercan models'' that are built in Mexico or Canada...and at the same time forign manufacturers bringing thier factories here. The whole built in America thing dosnt work anymore. Things are so globalized. The Camry, Accord as well as other models are built right here in America by American workers. Are you opposed to them brining jobs here...but then support American companies going to Mexico and Canada for work...just because they are ''American''?

DopeStar 156
08-07-06, 03:24 AM
Depression awaits your children.

Thanks.......

Spyder
08-07-06, 04:40 AM
But we've got lots of drugs to treat depression now... ... ... ... ...

:/

noahsdad
08-07-06, 06:36 AM
You can bet your honDUH that Japan woulda done it, if it was all reversed.


They already have Sandy. American made cars are subject to heavy tariffs in Japan and elsewhere in Asia, unless they are built there using only Asian labor.
Yet they are insulted when we suggest removing the tariffs, or if we attempt to impose them on their cars. This country has gone from superpower to superwuss in one generation.


The Camry, Accord as well as other models are built right here in America by American workers.

Yes, they are. Those workers are glad to have jobs, too, even though they make slightly more than a Walmart greeter, get almost zero benefits, and when they retire they get shown the door and a 'thanks, bye bye now."
And, where do you think the profits from the sale of those cars goes? Into the American economy? Guess again.

Destroyer
08-07-06, 10:23 AM
Olds = dead
Lincoln Town Car = Dying soon
Mercury = Comatose
Ford = Ill
Chevy = Condition = Good
Pontiac = Guarded Condition
Buick = Guarded Condition
Cadillac = Improving, almost healthy

So, can we hear a rousing rendition of the Toyota theme song ?
C'mon....OH WHAT A FEELING
THAT should be the caption under that picture.

Damn Foreign Cars. I've never owned one, and never ever will, and I have NEVER owned a "lemon" ! Never!!

Long ago I propossed a plan for G.W. Bush, but many poo pooed it.

$3,000 tax penality to anyone who buys a new foreign car & a $3,000 tax cut to anyone who buys a new Domestic from Ford or GM.
That sure woulda kick started the domestics. But no.....
You can bet your honDUH that Japan woulda done it, if it was all reversed.

But, you see, there is no pride or loyality to anything AMERICAN any longer in the majority of Americans under age 50.

I forsee the day when less than 10% of EVERYTHING we sell is made in America. Depression awaits your children.
How about we take a different approach and just build better cars?. If Ford and GM built higher quality cars than the rest of the world they would sell more cars. Japan had it all over us with quality since the 70's, why have we not caught up and surpassed?.

Elvis
08-07-06, 11:06 AM
why have we not caught up and surpassed?.

We lowered our standards, and organized labor handcuffed the manufacturers for many years. It was a 20-year decline that probably started in the early 70's. The first oil crisis accelerated the decline. We didn't get here overnight and we won't fix it overnight either.

I wouldn't be opposed to a tax break for people who buy American. Not sure I like the idea of an additional tax on import buyers, but we are far too lenient in the "free trade" department. I think a protective tariff like the good old days is in order here. Make Toyota pay for it and figure out how to pass it on to the consumer.

Toyota and Honda already reap higher profits per vehicle because they don't discount. They probably wouldn't feel a tariff that much.

And although nobody wanted to believe him in 1992, Ross Perot was dead-on when he fought against NAFTA. Everybody laughed when he talked about the "huge sucking sound" of jobs heading south of the border.

Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton & Gore all supported it.

NAFTA was also supposed to curb immigration problems. As Dr. Phil would say, "how's that working for you?"

noahsdad
08-07-06, 11:17 AM
How about we take a different approach and just build better cars?. If Ford and GM built higher quality cars than the rest of the world they would sell more cars. Japan had it all over us with quality since the 70's, why have we not caught up and surpassed?.


Respectfully disagree. What exactly is the standard of better? Better than the cars they are building now? Better than the cars the Japanese/Germans build? Better than they built in the 80s? Because the reality is that in terms of quality, Ford and GM are and have been building better cars than anyone since the mid 90s. Toyota, Honda, VW, BMW, Mercedes have all built their share of lemons; they just do a better job of getting the automotive press to look the other way when they do - and to trumpet loudly every failure of the big two.

Unfortunately, the lie has been drummed into our heads for so long many of us simply accept it.

Elvis
08-07-06, 01:43 PM
Because the reality is that in terms of quality, Ford and GM are and have been building better cars than anyone since the mid 90s.

Unfortunately, the lie has been drummed into our heads for so long many of us simply accept it.

Amen. They're building better quality today than at any time in American history.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-07-06, 02:57 PM
They already have Sandy. American made cars are subject to heavy tariffs in Japan and elsewhere in Asia, unless they are built there using only Asian labor.
Yet they are insulted when we suggest removing the tariffs, or if we attempt to impose them on their cars. This country has gone from superpower to superwuss in one generation.

What the hell?! They can't do that! I say put a tariff on all import cars. We have to protect our rights, not make every other country happy!

Blackout
08-07-06, 03:20 PM
The main reason why american car companies will not be able to compete against the likes of Toyota, Hyundai, etc. are the labor unions, plain and simple.

pimpin88
08-07-06, 03:24 PM
Spent the weekend in Lansing Aug 5-6. Lots of changes going on there. The Craft Center, where Oldsmobile built engines from the 50s through the 80s, and later the site where the Buick Reatta was built, is almost gone. This massive facility - almost 1.2 million square feet, is being demolished, melted down, and recycled.

Just down the street, the old Oldsmobile Administration building sits empty, as it has since 2004. It soon will be gone also.

Across ML King Blvd. from the Craft Center is the Metal Fab Division, formerly Fisher Body. That plant will be closed in '07 and demolished. Lansing still has Grand River (for the time being at least), which has won JD Power's award for best manufacturing plant for quality in North America three times, and the new Delta plant, which employs just over 400 people.


what the hell is gm thinking. why dont they keep one of the buildings and make a sweet huge museum out of it. or use it for another division of gm. do they have big plans for that land. because they sure didnt for the land that i can see out of my dorm room window (kettering university (gmi) flint, mi). a huge vacant land mass of concrete where there used to be a plant.



http://www.smugmug.com/photos/64084525-S.jpg

noahsdad
08-07-06, 04:13 PM
what the hell is gm thinking. why dont they keep one of the buildings and make a sweet huge museum out of it. or use it for another division of gm.

That's an interesting question. My brother in law is part of the shutdown team in Lansing, and he told me that they are tearing the plants down because scrap metal is valued really high right now. Ten years ago it would have cost GM 1-2 million to demolish the plant and haul away the refuse. Today, the company stands to make 3 million plus on each building.

BTW, they are making every effort to preserve as much memorabilia and historical stuff as they can. They just delivered a half dozen prototypes to the Olds museum this week.

EDBSO
08-07-06, 04:50 PM
Respectfully disagree. What exactly is the standard of better? Better than the cars they are building now? Better than the cars the Japanese/Germans build? Better than they built in the 80s? Because the reality is that in terms of quality, Ford and GM are and have been building better cars than anyone since the mid 90s. Toyota, Honda, VW, BMW, Mercedes have all built their share of lemons; they just do a better job of getting the automotive press to look the other way when they do - and to trumpet loudly every failure of the big two.

Unfortunately, the lie has been drummed into our heads for so long many of us simply accept it.

Humble submitted ... Lots of discussions on the Lexus SC400 and LS400 threads where their cars run to and over 500,000 miles on just gas and oil. The Mercedes also regularly run to over 500,000. I have lots of trouble finding any N* even hitting 200,000 heck even 125,000 miles OK even 80,000 meager miles without spending $$$$$

Frankly driving my 2001 Elsorado is not relaxing, I am constantly watching for signs of a toasted head gasket and $$$$$ down the drain. I have never felt this way about any other car I have owned. I am thinking that I will be selling it likely within the year, offers?

I put 4,000 miles on a Buick Reatta Ottawa to Key West and back and didn't think for a moment that the car with 175,000 miles on it wouldn't make it on gas and it used no oil. What would that be 5 extra quarts of oil for a N*. I am in constant fear of my 2001 Eldorado croaking just going to the corner store.

Happiest day of life was selling V12 BMW850CI Just sold 1989 Buick Reatta. Own 2001 Eldorado ESC. Just added a Cosworth Mercedes, Yahoo!!!
I spent most of my money on beer and women, the rest I just wasted!

UGOTIT
08-07-06, 05:36 PM
We use to street race back in the 80's by the Buick headquarters in Flint(I475 and Stewart Ave),we went thru there the other night it's all been demoed very sad.

UGOTIT
08-07-06, 05:40 PM
I wonder when GM will totally pull out of Flint?

Destroyer
08-07-06, 05:56 PM
Because the reality is that in terms of quality, Ford and GM are and have been building better cars than anyone since the mid 90s.That is a bold statement, where did you get that info from?......ohh wait, you made it up. You say the quality of American cars is better than that of the Japanese and German cars, based on what?. When you say quality are you meaning reliability?. Cause yeah, any car can make it to 100k or so miles. Hell an old Mopar with a slant six is probably more reliable than any new car or do you mean the materials a car is built with?. To me the new American cars feel cheap, the way the doors shut, the feel of the materials on the inside, etc.. If I compare my '91 Fleetwood Brougham to my wifes '98 Deville the Fleetwood is a much better and more solid car. The Deville feels cheap in and out, has a lot of cool luxury features and rides nice but the fit/finish and reliability is not that of a $40k luxury car, more like a well appointed but fast Malibu, still we like it for the price we paid used. I have seen nothing at the '06 new car exhibit to make me feel differently. Sit inside a Japanese car in the same price range and class range as an American car and you would notice the difference. I sat in an '06 Mustang and was truly dissapointed, the new Ford 500 felt like an early '90's Hyundai.

When I was looking at used luxury cars about a year and a half ago I went to the local Buick/GMC dealer where I had bought my conversion van to check out there used car inventory. I drove an '02 CTS and an '01 Lincoln LS and I could not believe how poorly they were screwed together (the CTS being worse). I pointed the center console and cheap plastics out to my wife and the salesman was in the backseat and he agreed and said it feels more like a Cavalier than a Cadillac. He even went on to say that he previewed a then new STS (new style) which was not available to the public yet and left feeling that it was rather cheapish in feel. So I checked out a few Buicks on the lot and didn't really care for them. Drove an '00 Towncar and an '00 Deville as well. I liked the Town car but I already had the Fleetwood so I wanted something a little less of an old guys car. He was giving me a sweetheart deal on the Deville but I wanted to look around some more. Ended up buying a '97 S320 Mercedes from the Lexus used car lot. So far my Mercedes has given me no problems and drives like no other. Real solid, real tight, an exceptional highway car.

Lexus has some pretty nice cars with a real quality feel to them, it can only be appreciated by actually sitting in them and comparing not by just looking at them cause they look kinda boring. German cars? I love them but they have taken a nose dive in regards to reliability compared to what they were, still they are of high quality but perhaps have gotten a little too over the top with the electronics which make them very complex and more prone to failure.

Elvis
08-07-06, 06:08 PM
That is a bold statement,.

I thought it was too, but you have to agree that the stuff OUR "big three" puts out today is the best quality they've ever built.

Competitively they've progressed slower than their overseas competition, but they have progressed.

EDBSO
08-07-06, 06:18 PM
Ended up buying a '97 S320 Mercedes from the Lexus used car lot. So far my Mercedes has given me no problems and drives like no other. Real solid, real tight, an exceptional highway car.

I hate you!!! Oh unless you want to sell it My new best friend!!
I have just started looking for a S320 long wheel base or a S500. Done the V12 thing (BMW850) and been "Killed" by it, OMG they are expensive to keep on the road!

A nice LS400 or LS430 would be great!! YAHOO!!

Happiest day of life was selling V12 BMW850CI Just sold 1989 Buick Reatta. Own 2001 Eldorado ESC. Just added a Cosworth Mercedes, Yahoo!!!
I spent most of my money on beer and women, the rest I just wasted!

pimpin88
08-07-06, 06:41 PM
Humble submitted ... Lots of discussions on the Lexus SC400 and LS400 threads where their cars run to and over 500,000 miles on just gas and oil. The Mercedes also regularly run to over 500,000. I have lots of trouble finding any N* even hitting 200,000 heck even 125,000 miles OK even 80,000 meager miles without spending $$$$$

Frankly driving my 2001 Elsorado is not relaxing, I am constantly watching for signs of a toasted head gasket and $$$$$ down the drain. I have never felt this way about any other car I have owned. I am thinking that I will be selling it likely within the year, offers?

I put 4,000 miles on a Buick Reatta Ottawa to Key West and back and didn't think for a moment that the car with 175,000 miles on it wouldn't make it on gas and it used no oil. What would that be 5 extra quarts of oil for a N*. I am in constant fear of my 2001 Eldorado croaking just going to the corner store.


hey, how much are you lookin for. lol :rolleyes:

UGOTIT
08-07-06, 07:03 PM
Pimpin88 how's GMI going?

pimpin88
08-07-06, 07:15 PM
Pimpin88 how's GMI going?


pretty good. i really love this place. its like a home to me, and since the school is 75%+ mechanical engineers, it is very easy to find help if you are having trouble with something.

in one of my classes we were in the foundry for the past two weeks, and for the next two weeks we are going to be doing welding. classes are pretty good, especially the hands on ones. and i start my co-op with MTD in sept. (MTD Products Landing Page (http://www.mtdproducts.com)). so hopefully i will be able to buy myself i nice car in the near future. :bouncy:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-07-06, 07:52 PM
I hate you!!! Oh unless you want to sell it My new best friend!!
I have just started looking for a S320 long wheel base or a S500. Done the V12 thing (BMW850) and been "Killed" by it, OMG they are expensive to keep on the road!

A nice LS400 or LS430 would be great!! YAHOO!!


I'd loooooooove a W140 M-B, preferably a S320 LWB or S500. Except the damn things are so expensive when compared to a deVille, Town Car or Mark VIII with similiar miles in comparable condition. You cannot get into a S320 for under $10,500 in MN, whereas $7500 buys you a damn nice, 70k mile '96 Town Car Signature Series, or $7500 can buy you a very nice 60k mile Lincoln Mark IV or Eldorado Biarritz. Plus typical maintenance (as I'm sure you both know) is much more on the German cars, as is insurance.

Destroyer
08-07-06, 07:59 PM
I thought it was too, but you have to agree that the stuff OUR "big three" puts out today is the best quality they've ever built.

Competitively they've progressed slower than their overseas competition, but they have progressed.
IMO if the companies would work on refinement American cars would be great. Seems Chrysler has made the biggest impact but its not an American car company any more. Just read a long term test in Road and Track on the CTS-V. At 50k miles they praised how fast it is but say it rattles like crazy on the inside, the rear end whines as does the gearbox, etc. They like it but just wish it was better built which reflects the feelings I have for my '98 Deville although that doesn't rattle too much.

Destroyer
08-07-06, 08:10 PM
I'd loooooooove a W140 M-B, preferably a S320 LWB or S500. Except the damn things are so expensive when compared to a deVille, Town Car or Mark VIII with similiar miles in comparable condition. You cannot get into a S320 for under $10,500 in MN, whereas $7500 buys you a damn nice, 70k mile '96 Town Car Signature Series, or $7500 can buy you a very nice 60k mile Lincoln Mark IV or Eldorado Biarritz. Plus typical maintenance (as I'm sure you both know) is much more on the German cars, as is insurance.Well yeah they cost more used but compare what they cost new. The Town Car, Mark VIII, and Devilles were roughly $40k whereas the W140 based at over $70k!. As far as insurance goes, I spend just as much on the S320 LWB as I do on my '91 Fleetwood......go figure. In my 10k miles of ownership all I've done to my S320 is change oil and replace the serpentine belt, it had no issues but I know when the time comes it'll cost a few extra bucks. Interestingly though, I'm betting the labor to fix this car will be less than a Northstar, the way they packaged those is awful!.

UGOTIT
08-07-06, 08:20 PM
I live close to you and have had alot of friends go to Kettering,they have all got great jobs after school good luck.

EDBSO
08-07-06, 08:38 PM
hey, how much are you lookin for. lol :rolleyes:

Make an offer.

http://www.carstickerpro.com/~dolphinauto/1B101485-32sm.jpg

Happiest day of life was selling V12 BMW850CI Just sold 1989 Buick Reatta. Own 2001 Eldorado ESC. Just added a Cosworth Mercedes, Yahoo!!!
I spent most of my money on beer and women, the rest I just wasted!

EDBSO
08-07-06, 08:40 PM
I'd loooooooove a W140 M-B, preferably a S320 LWB or S500. Except the damn things are so expensive when compared to a deVille, Town Car or Mark VIII with similiar miles in comparable condition. You cannot get into a S320 for under $10,500 in MN, whereas $7500 buys you a damn nice, 70k mile '96 Town Car Signature Series, or $7500 can buy you a very nice 60k mile Lincoln Mark IV or Eldorado Biarritz. Plus typical maintenance (as I'm sure you both know) is much more on the German cars, as is insurance.

And in 3 years the S320 is $8,000
Town Car and Eldo $2,800 only if you have done the headgasketon the Eldo and spent $3,000on the TC air suspension!

and ... you had all the fun or driving a MB

Happiest day of life was selling V12 BMW850CI Just sold 1989 Buick Reatta. Own 2001 Eldorado ESC.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/edbso/accesss.gif Just added a Cosworth Mercedes, Yahoo!!!

I spent most of my money on beer and women, the rest I just wasted!

Sandy
08-07-06, 08:41 PM
But sandy what about all the AMERICAN companies opening up places elsewhere...right now there are plenty of ''amercan models'' that are built in Mexico or Canada...and at the same time forign manufacturers bringing thier factories here. The whole built in America thing dosnt work anymore. Things are so globalized. The Camry, Accord as well as other models are built right here in America by American workers. Are you opposed to them brining jobs here...but then support American companies going to Mexico and Canada for work...just because they are ''American''?

Oh Boy, lets take it 1 by 1. Toyopet and the others have you right where they want you.

1.) While many foreign BRANDS are indeed assembled here in America, the PROFITS go back to the home country, i.e. Japan and do NOT stay in America. The profit go to strengthen a foreign corporation, at the detriment of an American corporation.

2.) American companies manufacturing in Mexico are doing so ONLY because they cannot compete with the flood of Japanese, Chinese and Korean CHEAP labor! If they don't source outside of America, they will close up.

3.) Yes, I support them, just because they are American, as am I.

4.) Jobs. I don't know for sure, But I have been told that the only Americans in the Toyota plant are at the entry level posistions. The managemnt and executives are all Japanese and most are here on extended Visa(s) to run things. Enjoying 6 figure incomes, while the Americans are working just above minimum wage, with very very few benefits.
Only the bakery has MORE turnovers !!

5.) I am NOT putting you down. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I am trying to open your eyes to the real facts of life. A booming & profitable domestic (Ford & GM) automobile manufacturing industry, primairly selling in the USA and Canada is imperative and directly linked to the health of our industrialized nation. We do not flourish on importing things, as our corporations fail, nor on allowing foreign corporations to come here to skirt importation taxes, shipping costs, and other high costs and flood our market with their products. This helps THEIR country.

Sorry for so many misspelled words I am typing this in absolute darkness, as it's in my son's bedroom and he's asleep, and I can find my reading glasses, so It's got alot of bo boos - I am sure. :)

Caddyshack100
08-07-06, 09:49 PM
I hereby nominate Sandy for President..... You are right on the mark,,, I would venture a guess and go deeper than the big 3. Go into a local Wal-Mart, and ask how much of their products are made in the USA, I would hazard a guess that less than 40 percent is made there, with the amount declining by the year. Wal-Mart does more business with China than some countries. Why? nobody has anymore loyalty to a country anymore, price, price, and price is all people will look at...and they get what they pay for...Chinese junk.....Singapore junk....Taiwan and Hong Kong...Better...Japan they are the same as us...they cannot afford the labor either and have to outsource to the other asian countries in the region. By all means, Tax the importation of cars. Just duck when the epitaths come flying. Quality is what people percieve and I leave it to them to decide what a good car is...

noahsdad
08-07-06, 10:17 PM
Perhaps Sandy and I are dinosaurs. Maybe even he thinks I go overboard with my enthusiasm. My opinion is mine, yours is yours. I'll stand by the quality of American cars based on my own experience, which has been favorable through over 30 years of driving. My only experience with imports was my son's Honda Accord that was nothing but trouble, and my wife's Subaru that went to the boneyard at 112K.

But I'm not alone. For some light reading, I'd suggest:

Consumer complaints about Lexus (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/lexus.html)

Consumer complaints about Volkswagen Beetle (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_beetle.html)

Consumer complaints about Honda (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/honda.html)

Safety Issues: Recalls Mercedes (http://www.safetyissues.com/magazine/2005/4/rcls_Mercedes.htm)

Toyota's profit up; so are its recalls - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.toyota05aug05,0,1630366.story?coll=bal-business-headlines)


Everybody builds good ones, everybody builds bad ones. I just hope that 10 years from now we at least have the choice to buy an American car.

pimpin88
08-07-06, 11:44 PM
Make an offer.

http://www.carstickerpro.com/~dolphinauto/1B101485-32sm.jpg

Happiest day of life was selling V12 BMW850CI Just sold 1989 Buick Reatta. Own 2001 Eldorado ESC. Just added a Cosworth Mercedes, Yahoo!!!
I spent most of my money on beer and women, the rest I just wasted!

haha. hey man, that is one beautiful car. have you had a lot of trouble with it. everyone i know has had great luck with the N*

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-08-06, 01:26 AM
And in 3 years the S320 is $8,000
Town Car and Eldo $2,800 only if you have done the headgasketon the Eldo and spent $3,000on the TC air suspension!

and ... you had all the fun or driving a MB


I've actually found some S320's for around 7-8k. They're all pre '95, and I like the 97-99's most, so I suppose I could wait, but as far as a car goes, a W140 really has no compromises as far as I'm concerned. They're one of the best looking cars ever IMO, they're modern, yet classicaly beautifiul, quick (even the S320 is decently quick), they're one of the best cars produced in their time. Not much was above an S Class on the automotive ladder. Everyone respects a M-B, especially the older ones. They're big, but not too big where it's very hard to park. Everything is of the highest quality, it's very smooth riding and yet it's a sharp handler (for a big sedan).

So yeah, If I was to pick one car to have as a daily driver, it would be an W140 S Class. The Eldo Biarritz/ Mark IV would be the fun cruiser.