: Finally Found PCM Programmer for 96-04 N* OBD-2!!!



CadillacSTS42005
07-28-06, 03:18 PM
Ok guys as everyone knows im one of the many people here who not only states they want more performance and whine about it but im one of the few people who actually gets off their ass emails and hacks and tries to find out if and how to do it!

Well guess what i finally found a company willing to do it!!!!!!!!!

Heres the email i sent them and they sent me right now im going to keep the company a secreat because they said that the 1st person who offers the car up will get a free reprogram and id like to be that person lol.

so heres a copy of the email between me and them...

Hello again,
here is what Lyndon wrote to me.

Subject: Re: Northstar PCM Mod


> If someone can provide a car for testing --they'll get a free
> reprogram...and we can get some development finished for the rest.
That's
> been the problem so far...getting a vehicle (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) here long enough for test
> reprogramming.
>
> Lyndon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "OrderStatus" <>
> To: "Programmer" <>
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:20 AM
> Subject: Fw: Northstar PCM Mod
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Zytnick
> To
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:38 PM
> Subject: Northstar PCM Mod
>
>
> I was referred to your sight through a forum I am part of
> (cadillacforums.com). Upon looking at your sight I noticed you
have
> PCM upgrades for obd-1 northstar 4.6 and upgrades for the obd-2
northstar
> 4.4 supercharged. However you do not offer one for the 96-04 4.6
obd-2
> northstar. I and MANY others have searched high and low for anyone
who has
> or would modify our pcms. Hypertech (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#), Superchips, Jet Chips, all of
them
> say
> there is no interest and therefore they wont make it. I can provide
> easiler
> over 50 people who would be interested in it. Your company is the
closest
> to
> actually creating a modded PCM for our caddys due to your involvement
with
> the 4.4 obd-2 and 4.6 obd-1. This is pretty much a last ditch attempt
to
> finally find a company and get them to actually make one. I'm not
kidding
> when I say I can provide at least 50 people who would be interested
and I
> could probably give you at LEAST 5-10 def people who would buy one,
others
> would prob follow after dynos and such showing how much of an
increase.
>
> Thank you very much for your time, I really appreciate it.
> Jason Zytnick

denscor
07-28-06, 03:59 PM
What is the website I would be interested in one for a 1995 ( I know its obd-1) Did not know anyone was making them!

CadillacSTS42005
07-28-06, 04:45 PM
the already have one for the obd-1 caddys they use a chip not a programmer

eldorado1
07-28-06, 07:12 PM
So you're going to ship your car to canada for a month or three?

I also think you're overestimating the number of people interested... Especially if it's $500, and requires you to use premium from then on.

One of the problems with OBDII computers, is you don't really know for sure that you got what you paid for. A great example is RSM racing. They were charging $500 for some OBDII reprogramming - and someone actually downloaded their binary, and low and behold, it was the same calibration as stock. Since then they've changed their name, and I think there's some lawsuit in the works. Buyer beware.

denscor
07-28-06, 08:14 PM
[quote=CadillacETC1997]the already have one for the obd-1 caddys they use a chip not a programmer[/quote
'
Some GM cars started flash programming in 94 while others were chipped! IE the 93 camaro was chipped in 94 (which was ODB I) were flashed!!! The corvette started flash programming in 1992 (still OBD I). OBD II officially started by Government regulations in 1996 all automobile manufacturers had to use OBD II !! The some of the reason for this was to make all codes the same for manufactures to follow!!!

codewize
07-28-06, 09:21 PM
Does this include me? If I send my car to Canada for a few days and spend $500 I can have a Z car ? Is that what you're saying?

CadillacSTS42005
07-28-06, 09:36 PM
this is for all etc dts and sts and they are in alberta right above idaho i need a definate and i will email them with more

caddys were chiped until 96 im sure of this

denscor
07-29-06, 12:02 AM
did some research and cadillac went to flash programming in1995 was first year. anyway will they make a programmer for 1995?

CadillacSTS42005
07-29-06, 09:56 AM
once again i found a company who will make it just no one seems to care enough to get off their ass and take their car to them no ones responded to the post in the sts and etc forum and very little hits here whats wrong guys!

eldorado1
07-29-06, 10:46 AM
Umm... didn't you just say...

"right now im going to keep the company a secreat because they said that the 1st person who offers the car up will get a free reprogram and id like to be that person lol. "

??

So go ahead. If it costs less than $500 to get the car there, you come out ahead!

denscor
07-29-06, 01:20 PM
i'll pass on the test car bad things can happen

99Classillac
07-29-06, 02:08 PM
Can this reprogramming get rid of my stupid 112mph limiter?

clarkz71
07-29-06, 05:59 PM
So you're going to ship your car to canada for a month or three?

I also think you're overestimating the number of people interested... Especially if it's $500, and requires you to use premium from then on.

One of the problems with OBDII computers, is you don't really know for sure that you got what you paid for. A great example is RSM racing. They were charging $500 for some OBDII reprogramming - and someone actually downloaded their binary, and low and behold, it was the same calibration as stock. Since then they've changed their name, and I think there's some lawsuit in the works. Buyer beware.

This is not like RSM, this is "Westers Tune", as soon as I saw Lyndons name I knew. They are one of the best, if not THE best in OBD II reprogramming. I read about them all the time on chevy truck forum.com. With them, I can say you will know what your getting!! And they also do OBD I chips. Not just the engine prom like Superchips used to have, but you also get the transmission prom, (called a dual mem-cal). Thats why it's $350. They are top shelf.

clarkz71
07-29-06, 06:00 PM
Can this reprogramming get rid of my stupid 112mph limiter?

Yes, it will

dkozloski
07-29-06, 06:12 PM
Most people realize that the chance that Cadillac engineers left much performance laying on the tab that Beavis and Butthead can safely find is pretty slim. You realize that you will be depending on margins of safety that no longer exist?

eldorado1
07-29-06, 07:19 PM
Where have you been Dkoz? Haven't seen you post in forever... Same with mcowden... where's he at?

dkozloski
07-29-06, 07:36 PM
I'm a victim of my wife watching the home renovation shows on TV. I've had my kitchen torn apart for two month and it looks like that much more before I have it finished. I've got more money tied up in my kitchen than I do in my car. I don't know what happened to Mike. I'm leary of trying to get more performance from reprogramming limits because the tradeoff is that you're shaving important safety margins that the experts have established with millions of dollars worth of labratory testing. I suppose it's okay as long as you get a guy to do it that is young enough that he still knows everything.

clarkz71
07-30-06, 06:38 PM
Most people realize that the chance that Cadillac engineers left much performance laying on the tab that Beavis and Butthead can safely find is pretty slim. You realize that you will be depending on margins of safety that no longer exist?

:lies: Beavis & Butthead have nothing to do with it. I think the N* can handle another 20 or so HP safely which is about what you'll gain from a PCM reflash. Modern technology. It's not like the "Old Days" where you had to change the intake, carb, install headers and recurve the distributor to gain that much HP.

eldorado1
07-30-06, 08:47 PM
Are you speaking from experience? Have you done back to back dyno pulls after a PCM swap?

You're not going to get 20hp from a reflash. Well, I shouldn't say that. You might, running 93 and 30 degrees advance at something dangerously lean like 13.5:1.

CadillacSTS42005
07-30-06, 09:02 PM
the company is in outside of calgery which is above idaho its out of my reach but anyone who is interested i will connect you with them. they are going to do this is isnt a dream anymore guys they hacked the 4.4 N* and they said its generally the same peramaters the only things preventing this is no one has commited a car to them long enough to test. 35 hours and 2K miles is way to far for me to reach

Shaggy
07-30-06, 11:38 PM
I live in Edmonton, Alberta. Let me know who this is, and I'll try to arrange something.

HITMONEY
07-31-06, 03:08 AM
I would be interested in it, but I would think twice about giving them my car to pound on for a couple months on a dyno. No thanks.... I'll spend the money on the program thank you.

Lemme know what year this will be available... and if I am still alive.. you can count on selling one to me.
:)

clarkz71
07-31-06, 05:03 AM
Are you speaking from experience? Have you done back to back dyno pulls after a PCM swap?

You're not going to get 20hp from a reflash. Well, I shouldn't say that. You might, running 93 and 30 degrees advance at something dangerously lean like 13.5:1.

No experience, no dyno pulls. Just going by what I was told in researching a new prom/mem-cal for my 95. Superchips advertised 18-21 HP gain with their chip. I actually don't care about the amount of HP increase, I just wanted to get rid of the speed limiter.

dp102288
07-31-06, 09:18 AM
Which company is doing this?

slk230mb
07-31-06, 11:23 AM
Is this Westers?

clarkz71
07-31-06, 11:25 AM
Which company is doing this?

http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/index2.htm

clarkz71
07-31-06, 11:39 AM
Are you speaking from experience? Have you done back to back dyno pulls after a PCM swap?

You're not going to get 20hp from a reflash. Well, I shouldn't say that. You might, running 93 and 30 degrees advance at something dangerously lean like 13.5:1.

Here's a tid bit from Westers web site with dyno pulls!!!



Real-world gains with Wester's tuning:

1997 GM 350 (187,000 miles) Wester's gains: 36.6 RWHP, 50 RWT
2003 Chevy 1500HD 6.0L (http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42943&hl) Wester's gains: 53.2 RWHP, 47.5 RWT (Before (http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/images/dyno_stock-2_14_04.gif)/after (http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/images/intake_shoot-out_dyno.gif) dyno


So I don't think 20HP is to far fetched for a N*.

eldorado1
07-31-06, 03:30 PM
Real-world gains with Wester's tuning:

1997 GM 350 (187,000 miles) Wester's gains: 36.6 RWHP, 50 RWT
2003 Chevy 1500HD 6.0L (http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42943&hl) Wester's gains: 53.2 RWHP, 47.5 RWT (Before (http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/images/dyno_stock-2_14_04.gif)/after (http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/images/intake_shoot-out_dyno.gif) dyno


Cool. Superchips quotes a gain of 150HP, 225TQ on a 2003 F350 6.0L...

clarkz71
07-31-06, 03:35 PM
Cool. Superchips quotes a gain of 150HP, 225TQ on a 2003 F350 6.0L...




Very easy gain for a turbo diesel, whats your point??

eldorado1
07-31-06, 05:15 PM
My point is, none of those engines really have anything in common with the northstar, besides being V8's.

It's much easier to gain horsepower on larger displacement engines that are putting out 50 (!!!!) hp/liter, than a small displacement engine that's already putting 100hp/liter.

clarkz71
07-31-06, 05:29 PM
I disagree with your displacement "theory". The motorcycle guys are getting OVER 500 hp from a 1.4 liter Suzuki turbo "Busa", with the stock engine. And if you remember, Chevy was getting 1 hp per cubic inch(61 hp per liter) in the late 50's. (283ci/283hp). And as far as 100hp per liter, I believe this thread is about vin Y and 9 N*'s, which make 60 & 65 hp per liter, not the supercharged N*. My point... is that there are big gains to be had with ANY modern electronically controlled engine. If you ever watch speed channel, shows like HotRod TV or Two Guys garage, they have all tested reprogrammers and dyno tested them with inpressive gains verifying the manufacture's claims.

eldorado1
07-31-06, 07:32 PM
oops, missed a decimal point. :eek:

The problem with chips/reprograms specifically is they don't work to get more air into or out of the engine. They have to make do with what's already there. That means optimizing the spark timing to gain the most torque applied to the crankshaft, for the longest amount of time. They also typically lean the engine out. These can and do make a difference to the power output, however the spark timing changes will require premium, and the leaner AFR has the potential to damage your engine on something like a high speed run (WOT for 30 seconds+)

Speaking of automotive shows, anybody remember the commercials for the Tornado? They had dyno runs showing 20hp gains.

When you guys get this all figured out, somebody needs to do a back to back comparison of the stock, and reprogrammed PCM. Preferrably on the same day. I'll happily eat my words if you guys show a 20hp gain

clarkz71
07-31-06, 07:53 PM
Speaking of automotive shows, anybody remember the commercials for the Tornado? They had dyno runs showing 20hp gains.



I remember those commercials, don't remember any dyno test. Are you comparing a tornado to a PCM reprogrammer??:jerkit: As an aside, have you dyno tested, back to back, any of your throttle body's?? How are those working out for you?

eldorado1
07-31-06, 09:24 PM
I remember those commercials, didn't remember any dyno test. Are you comparing a tornado to a PCM reprogrammer??:jerkit: As an aside, have you dyno tested, back to back, any of your throttle body's?? How are those working out for you?

Yes, I have. Same day, within an hour of each other. And unlike chip makers, I won't say "Up to 30+hp!!". I'll put the plot down and let it speak for itself. Yeah, it's 6 measly hp. But it's torque-integral that counts, and you'll see a good 12-15 ft lbs more than stock from 3000 up (lowest tested). The area under the curve has massive gains across the entire powerband. I was there for about 2 hours and made several pulls. This is the best before and the best after. Notice I didn't compare the worst before to the best after. I could have claimed 14hp that way.

http://i7.tinypic.com/21lrj9c.jpg

dkozloski
08-01-06, 01:27 AM
You get an extra 15HP if you polish the PCM with "duck butter". I am sure that any "dirt floor shop" mechanic that watches the car shows on TV knows way more than any factory developement engineer. There is no doubt that any yahoo can pull parameters out of a hat and reprogram an engine management unit to produce more power than GM ever dreamed of. The first BS artist doesn't have a chance!

CadillacSTS42005
08-01-06, 03:15 AM
I live in Edmonton, Alberta. Let me know who this is, and I'll try to arrange something.

pm sent!!!!

clarkz71
08-01-06, 05:02 AM
You get an extra 15HP if you polish the PCM with "duck butter". I am sure that any "dirt floor shop" mechanic that watches the car shows on TV knows way more than any factory developement engineer. There is no doubt that any yahoo can pull parameters out of a hat and reprogram an engine management unit to produce more power than GM ever dreamed of. The first BS artist doesn't have a chance!

None of the Mercedes Benz dealers I've worked at in my 25 years as a tech had "dirt shop floors". Back in your day they might have had them though. I could use some of your "Duck Butter" but I would need a copy of your dyno pull to verify that 15 HP you got.:jerkit:. By the way, dkoz.... are you saying that if you watch car tv shows you are a dirt floor mechanic?? Are concrete floor shop mechanics more skilled then dirt floor shop mechanics? I can see the benefits of a "dirt floor shop", you just pull the drain plug and the oil soaks into the dirt. No drain pan needed.

davesdeville
08-01-06, 06:17 AM
Well if on premium gas you're not seeing any spark retard then you're probably not taking full advantage of that fuel. There IS a gain to be had, the only questions are is it worth the money, what kind of risk of damage will be incurred, and how much of a gain. These can really only be answered with real world testing, which means doing the program in the first place.

clarkz71
08-01-06, 07:58 AM
But it's torque-integral that counts, and you'll see a good 12-15 ft lbs more than stock from 3000 up

That is an impressive gain. I wonder if the speed density system on my 95 N* would compensate for the increased air flow as well as a MAF system on 96 and up N*'s. If so I might start looking on E-Bay for a throttle body/spacer core to send you.

clarkz71
08-01-06, 10:12 AM
"duck butter" "dirt floor shop" mechanic yahoo BS artist


Isn't this troll lingo?? :stirpot:

dkozloski
08-01-06, 02:11 PM
Yes! But the real troll is the one fishing for pigeons.

CadillacSTS42005
08-01-06, 02:28 PM
can everyone please stop hijacking my thread thank you im trying to find someone whos close so mods for the N* can become a reality unlike trolls THANKS!!!!!

dkozloski
08-01-06, 02:41 PM
Be my guest! Good luck!

clarkz71
08-01-06, 03:12 PM
:yeah:

denscor
08-02-06, 06:15 AM
I would love to do it but they don't make one for 1995!!!

clarkz71
08-02-06, 10:45 AM
I would love to do it but they don't make one for 1995!!!

Westers does make chips for 93 to 95 N*'s.

From Westers web site:

Cadillac
32 Valve Northstar STS through early production 1993-1995 years only !
Custom Dual Memcal
$395.00

dp102288
08-02-06, 12:10 PM
Westers does make chips for 93 to 95 N*'s.

From Westers web site:

Cadillac
32 Valve Northstar STS through early production 1993-1995 years only !
Custom Dual Memcal
$395.00


What is the link to this? I can't find it.

clarkz71
08-02-06, 12:18 PM
Here's the link, next post.

clarkz71
08-02-06, 12:19 PM
What is the link to this? I can't find it.

http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/scprice.htm

dp102288
08-03-06, 08:28 AM
Thanks!!

Shaggy
08-05-06, 02:25 PM
pm sent!!!!

I need 50 posts to send a PM. Can you give me your e-mail add?

Shaggy
08-05-06, 02:32 PM
What would this do for a "W" rated car like mine? Air/fuel, shift points?

JimLucky
08-05-06, 02:44 PM
can everyone please stop hijacking my thread thank you im trying to find someone whos close so mods for the N* can become a reality unlike trolls THANKS!!!!!



I think if the company looking to do this would reimburse the person for traveling
expensese they have a better chance of getting a car.

dkozloski
08-05-06, 02:59 PM
Wester's Garage links are no worky. Probably a programming problem with their server. The mechanic's car and cobbler's kids syndrome.

CadillacSTS42005
08-05-06, 04:10 PM
they are providing a free tune which has a value of about $500 bucks. that in my opinion probably covers transportation fees so i dont see how you can say they should cover transportation


What would this do for a "W" rated car like mine? Air/fuel, shift points?

it would adjust timing and other things to, what ive herd from them, easily get another 15-20 hp at the wheels from our cars but i cant find anyone close enough to go.

not bad when you consider if you buy a tb and spacer from eldo1 it will set you back bout 300 i think and theres only a 6 hp gain there

dkozloski
08-05-06, 04:28 PM
The problem now is that they have apparently vaporized. This sometimes happens when you're conducting your business upstairs over a vacant lot.

eldorado1
08-05-06, 05:26 PM
not bad when you consider if you buy a tb and spacer from eldo1 it will set you back bout 300 i think and theres only a 6 hp gain there

$159 on ebay ;)

(for the throttle body anyways)

CadillacSTS42005
08-05-06, 06:31 PM
sorry i overpriced it eldo hahaha i kno you got a great product for the price and def worth it

davesdeville
08-06-06, 05:55 AM
The problem now is that they have apparently vaporized. This sometimes happens when you're conducting your business upstairs over a vacant lot.

Westers has been around for awhile. I don't know, but I doubt they just vanished. It's likely just some sort of server problem.

dkozloski
08-06-06, 01:45 PM
Wester's site has reappeared. Now's the time to go for it!

AlBundy
08-06-06, 02:11 PM
Wester's site has reappeared. Now's the time to go for it!

Good now lets keep this experiment going.:thumbsup:

parts68
08-06-06, 08:56 PM
Westers is not the only one doing the OBD1 N*
They are also not the only one doing OBD2 N*
(or saying they will attempt it).

The OBD1 has a memcal and is not "reflashed".
I for one would like to see the OBD1 and compare it to stock
just for giggles.

AlBundy
08-06-06, 09:55 PM
I don't understand the BS. If this company expects to make money off of the use of the programming, why don't they go to the junk yard and supply themselves with a N* engine. What the f_ck kind of company that will make money on this project extendes offers to a forum to send them a car so they can test. If they are a legit company spending $500 to $2500 isn't a expense compared to the profit they intend to make. Being a company that makes money on this type of thing makes me wonder about their company. They know there is interest but they tell us we need to supply them with a car, come on give me a break. They don't need a car all they need is an engine which they can supply themselves.

eldorado1
08-06-06, 09:58 PM
the "company" is just a one man operation. He likely couldn't afford it. He doesn't have the money superchips has (for example). I doubt he sells many chips/reprogramed pcms.

AlBundy
08-06-06, 10:13 PM
the "company" is just a one man operation. He likely couldn't afford it. He doesn't have the money superchips has (for example). I doubt he sells many chips/reprogramed pcms.

Well I guess your right. I need to do more research about the company before I start bashing them.:crybaby:

parts68
08-07-06, 09:00 PM
My son has a friend that works for superchips(its local to us).
They have offered many times to do a car for me(not a N*)
if I would supply it for a couple of days.
This is pretty much SOP.

CadillacSTS42005
08-07-06, 09:22 PM
well then how come you dont?

parts68
08-07-06, 09:36 PM
They arent interested in doing a N*.
We got all our probs sorted out with our 83
S10 Blazer 4x4 engine conversion without
reprogramming,HP tuners and DHP offer better solutions
for my Firebird,and my S10 is still under warranty.
That only leaves the cars with N* to play with.

CadillacSTS42005
08-07-06, 09:48 PM
y not?

parts68
08-09-06, 06:43 PM
I can count the N* owners that want to reprogram the PCM on both hands.
Doesnt make very good business sense.
Im also told that the code for N* is unlike any other GMs so its not easy busting the code.
I do have someone working on it tho.

CadillacSTS42005
08-09-06, 07:50 PM
i can name AT LEAST 10 people who want it...

parts68
08-09-06, 09:01 PM
OK maybe you can convince SuperChips that they will make money
doing this.
Keep in mind that the R&D is higher than any other GM and will be spread out
over just a few as compared to a zillion Chevy trucks.

CadillacSTS42005
08-09-06, 09:33 PM
ive spent hours apon hours emailing and contacting numerious people, to be quite honest ive about reached my limit.

99Classillac
08-20-06, 01:16 PM
I want my Deville programmed!!! I hate 112mph

dp102288
08-21-06, 09:11 AM
CadillacETC1997 was really the front-runner for this thing, but no one was close enough for this to be done. Many thanks to him, because many of us could have benefitted from this. However, I think until we can get a US location, it won't happen.

Hey, if it were in NJ, and they could use my 95 (OBDI) ESC, they could have it for 3 days. My dad has other cars I can use. Maybe I could ask him to lend his 00 SLS (OBDII instead). I hope others would be in a position to make this happen if it were near them.

CadillacSTS42005
08-22-06, 05:14 PM
hey i try, like many others on the board i want a way to push more power out of it(the only difference is where most have just tried found out it doesnt exisit and give up, im stubborn as hell and continue to email companies and try to get some attension drawn to it), i kno the N* is already pushing more than one hp per cube but look at the 02 sts lemaz pace car. it was same as a stock sts with upgraded programming and a body kit that bosted i think 350 hp! so it can be done its just the hassle in finding someone who is willing or someone who is close enough.,

STS 310
08-22-06, 09:58 PM
Hell if it wasnt so damn far from Cali I would let the guy keep it for a while. Im averaging about 40 miles a month on my STS over the last 3 months and plan to keep it that way (01-03 DTS coming soon). And most of those miles are to the car wash. Other than that, I have everything I need such as products and services within 2 to 3 miles of my house. Beat on the wifes new Toyota Siena.

I want to try and see how long I can stay under 100k on the clock. (I know I know. Why?)

eldorado1
08-24-06, 08:11 PM
i kno the N* is already pushing more than one hp per cube but look at the 02 sts lemaz pace car. it was same as a stock sts with upgraded programming and a body kit that bosted i think 350 hp!

What?


The Seville STSi is the official pace car for the 68th Le Mans 24-hour race. The vehicle features an enhanced version of the StabiliTrak chassis control system, night vision, improved lateral support seating with anti-- whiplash head restraint, and larger brakes with oversized rotors, pistons, and calipers. The power behind the STSi is the Northstar V8 engine. The powerplant boasts 320 hp, an increase over the 300-hp rating carried by the STS. The performance boost is a combination of reduced inlet restriction and lower exhaust back pressure.

CadillacSTS42005
08-24-06, 09:20 PM
dude so your tellin me the STSi has a corsa exhaust and a volant intake thats it common they had to do some programming and im sorry, i said "350 i think"

eldorado1
08-25-06, 08:31 AM
20hp is easy with just some exhaust rework.

dkozloski
08-25-06, 10:58 AM
Pull out the air filter and the resulting roar will convince nearly any dummer that he's got a 20HP increase.

CadillacSTS42005
08-25-06, 02:34 PM
well i did a custom exaust on my etc opened it up major so your tellin me i gained 20 hp? not trying to be an ass or anything im askin seriously

eldorado1
08-25-06, 02:40 PM
2.5" duals? freeflowing muffler and cats if any? Probably

CadillacSTS42005
08-25-06, 02:46 PM
i herd its impossible to fit duals on our cars...
i made a 3 inch from the cat back into a 2.5 y and 2 free flow mufflers into 2 chrome rectangle oval tips...

eldorado1
08-25-06, 03:47 PM
Nothing's impossible. On the f-bodies, they had to flatten one end of the pipes to butt them against each other so they'd fit in the tunnel.

2 x 2.5" = 9.8 in sq
1 x 3" = 7 in sq.

Nearly 40% more flow for duals.

CadillacSTS42005
08-25-06, 04:25 PM
damn huh looks like my custom exhaust will be modded again...
however you think i should run dual pipes from the headers or y it from behind the cat? like is there enough room for 2 cats and then what about the o2 senors?

djb25
09-06-06, 05:18 PM
There sure is a lot of back and forth in this thread, which is basically nothing more than trying beat a horse that doesn't even exist. Fact is, no one will know whether there is performance to be gained from remapping the ECU until someone tries it. I don't doubt that GM engineers know what they're doing when they programmed these cars, but every time a discussion like this starts, everyone seems to forget that GM didn't map these engines to squeeze every last bit of horsepower out of them. Sure, some engines are more highly tuned than others, and I think the N* is closer to the highly tuned camp, but the fact remains that the powertrain guys have a lot of other factors entering into their design. These are luxury cars, and cars that are expected to be driven daily in a very mundane fashion. They have to cope with occasional bouts of bad gasoline (and the occasional low octane fill-up for the pre-'00 models), less-than-perfect maintenance, operation not entirely consistent with the normal usage (think idling for a half hour in 100 degree weather, etc.) and so on. As such, we're not faced with a question of whether someone can "out-tune" Cadillac's engine development team; rather we're faced with the question as to whether the aftermarket tuners can take advantage of the concessions made by the developers and push them away from user-friendliness and closer to performance.

Point is, there's no way to really find out if there is a potential for extra power without getting in there and actually finding out.

- Damion

CadillacSTS42005
09-06-06, 05:20 PM
and in this thread i found some one who will do it so idk about how theres arguein back and forth.

danbuc
09-06-06, 06:07 PM
What's the point of running true dual exhaust pipe out the back if you can run one single middle pipe that flows as much as two smaller ones. One 4" pipe will flow plenty for these cars. There's no reason to run two 2.5" pipes out the back, especially if you have to bend them. I mean sure it's cool, but your also forgetting the fact that these cars only run 1 cat. You'd have to either run no cat, or figure out a way to stuff two smaller ones up in there, which would just be an even bigger restriction.

eldorado1
09-06-06, 06:17 PM
What's the point of running true dual exhaust pipe out the back if you can run one single middle pipe that flows as much as two smaller ones. One 4" pipe will flow plenty for these cars.

Sure, but you'd have to get a truck muffler... :D

btw, the "reason" for duals are strictly for sound.

eldorado1
09-06-06, 06:51 PM
everyone seems to forget that GM didn't map these engines to squeeze every last bit of horsepower out of them. Sure, some engines are more highly tuned than others, and I think the N* is closer to the highly tuned camp, but the fact remains that the powertrain guys have a lot of other factors entering into their design. These are luxury cars, and cars that are expected to be driven daily in a very mundane fashion. They have to cope with occasional bouts of bad gasoline (and the occasional low octane fill-up for the pre-'00 models), less-than-perfect maintenance, operation not entirely consistent with the normal usage (think idling for a half hour in 100 degree weather, etc.) and so on.

GM squeezed *almost* every last bit of horsepower out, as far as the calibration is concerned.

Now here's the thing. As much as they try to make all the engines exactly the same, there are differences. They missed a little bit of casting flash here, one valve is 0.0001” to the right compared to the others, etc.

So one engine might flow a bit better, one engine might tolerate more timing than another, etc. So they play it safe, and make it rich, and the most timing the “most intolerant” engine can take. A knock sensor takes care of the rest.

Now, there are only TWO parameters that you can change in the calibration that will directly affect horsepower. Fuel, and timing. According to Mark99STS, changing the fueling from very rich to very lean, he did not see much change in horsepower. As I recall, they were all within 5hp. That leaves timing.

Timing is very much engine dependant. One might run 32 degrees advance no problem, another might only be able to run 27 degrees without detonation. Those few degrees might be worth a few horsepower.

But here's the problem - if stock is 26 degrees, and you up the timing in the chip to 32, you're going to get detonation if your engine is one of the intolerant ones. So immediately your knock sensor picks that up and drops the timing to 20 degrees. Now you've got less power than stock.

If your knock sensor isn't working, you've got problems. If the chip programmer changed the knock retard to prevent the timing drop, you've got problems.

CadillacSTS42005
09-06-06, 07:25 PM
see the thing still is.
if the n* is THAT intolerant to pcm upgrades...
how come people with obd1 N*s who chipped them have true power gains....

AlBundy
09-06-06, 07:32 PM
see the thing still is.
if the n* is THAT intolerant to pcm upgrades...
how come people with obd1 N*s who chipped them have true power gains....


How much HP did they confess.

CadillacSTS42005
09-06-06, 07:35 PM
not confess dyno tested and it was something like 17 hp i believe i wish i could refind the site...

eldorado1
09-07-06, 01:28 PM
So how long is it going to take someone to do it already? I thought there were 5 people jumping up and down? The guy said he'd do it for free! Just pay the gas to drive there and back. :thepan:

I'd LOVE to see back to back runs with a wideband.

dkozloski
09-07-06, 02:47 PM
Stroker McGurk says, "You can't feel less than 10% in the seat of your pants." If it's less than 30HP it might as well be nothing.

eldorado1
09-07-06, 03:12 PM
this is true.

You won't feel it, but you can measure it. (by timing 1/4 mile, 0-60 times, etc)

I'd say most people can't feel back to back differences of 50+hp though. By the time you get into the car again, you've already forgotten what the first one felt like. ;)

Unless you have something that works at the flick of a switch, like nitrous.

CadillacSTS42005
09-07-06, 03:16 PM
idk itds done its ready to go just needs a car for testing
seem like everyone want power i hand it too them then they all turn their back when they have to do a lil fukin work to get it....

cozmo1
09-07-06, 03:37 PM
idk itds done its ready to go just needs a car for testing
seem like everyone want power i hand it too them then they all turn their back when they have to do a lil fukin work to get it....

Please turn the spell check on. You really need it :thumbsup:

CadillacSTS42005
09-07-06, 03:41 PM
this is a forum it is for typing and helping and im doing several things
i didnt realize i was in english class
my apologies miss profressor ma'am

cozmo1
09-07-06, 03:45 PM
my apologies miss profressor ma'am

See, there you go again. :tisk:

dkozloski
09-07-06, 03:57 PM
FWIW, In order to get your ideas across to the public and be taken seriously you must be able to communicate unambiguously. If your ramblings look like the output of an ignorant illiterate you don't have anybody but yourself to blame when your ideas are dismissed or misunderstood. A few moments of proof reading and correction can make all the difference.

cozmo1
09-07-06, 04:10 PM
FWIW, In order to get your ideas across to the public and be taken seriously you must be able to communicate unambiguously. If your ramblings look like the output of an ignorant illiterate you don't have anybody but yourself to blame when your ideas are dismissed or misunderstood. A few moments of proof reading and correction can make all the difference.

Agreed.

AlBundy
09-07-06, 04:24 PM
not confess dyno tested and it was something like 17 hp i believe i wish i could refind the site...

Even better.

CadillacSTS42005
09-07-06, 08:07 PM
if you both dont care to respond because you cant understand what im saying then how about you dont clog my thread and do just that keep it shut THANKS!

cozmo1
09-08-06, 10:25 AM
if you both dont care to respond because you cant understand what im saying then how about you dont clog my thread and do just that keep it shut THANKS!

Huh? :confused:

dkozloski
09-08-06, 11:23 AM
Hoax?

HITMONEY
09-09-06, 05:24 AM
if you both dont care to respond because you cant understand what im saying then how about you dont clog my thread and do just that keep it shut THANKS!

And you seriously wonder about the responses you get.

This is a Cadillac forum, not a Scion, Eclipse, or rice burner forum... there are no "Type R" stickers on our cars. Most of us are double your age, and have forgotten more than you know at 19, thats the reality of it.

Posts like the one above will only ostricize you further.

Posting is a very stripped down version of communication especially when compared to speaking. All that was asked of you was to take a little time and spell check a bit. And further, use some punctuation so we can understand your post a little more clearly without having to read it more than once.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/hitmoney/Humor/tmyk.gif

:thumbsup:

Boombotz
09-09-06, 06:38 AM
I am issuing a warning to all invoved that this thread will be locked if this continues. We are all adults and need to handle the situation as such. We all are here trying to help one another not attack or be attacked.

dp102288
09-09-06, 09:55 AM
^^ Thank you. It is dissappointing to see people act this way towads one another. You don't even know each other, calm down.

dkozloski
09-09-06, 04:17 PM
An important thing to remember when talking about reprogramming an ECU is what kind of interface do you use. Presently, the only way to program this OBD II ECU is by use of a TECH II with the programming add-ons for about $3000+. Just the pronouncement that you are going to use a laptop means nothing unless you have the electronics, cables, interface, and software to complete the connection. This is no simple matter that a trip to Radio Shack will take care of. We're a long, long way from that stage. At present it's about as likely as space travel to Mars with a much bleaker outlook of a worthwhile result.

AJxtcman
01-25-08, 10:44 PM
:histeric::lies:
I need to do more research on your 10,000 post STS. some of these are funny:D

CadillacSTS42005
01-25-08, 11:14 PM
what?
they said they were gonna do it
where did i lie lol?

clarkz71
01-26-08, 08:46 PM
:histeric::lies:
I need to do more research on your 10,000 post STS. some of these are funny:D


There are some good ones, that's for sure.:cookoo::yup:

1996Eldorado
04-18-08, 10:58 PM
I would buy one the day they come out I've been dying to beef up my eldorado as long it was even just a decent increase I'd buy one ASAP.

Submariner409
04-19-08, 09:45 AM
:sneaky: .......1996, Go back and read this entire forum, start to finish, look at the dates of posts, and don't hold your breath.