First post here and I'm glad to see there is actually a Cadillac forum dedicated to exchanging info about Caddies. Right now, I'm still in the gathering info stage. I think its important to have a definate POA before starting any project. I have seen many projects both here and back in the USA get abandoned, sidetracked, or wind up costing much more than expected due to poor planning.

The idea is to swap a Northstar engine into a Catera and use a Vette 6-speed mission. I know Holden Commodores utilize a 5.7 liter engine down in Australia, so I know the Northstar will fit. Of course, I would want to have the Northstar engine tweaked some before installation. I know the Vette engine can make more power, but I want to keep the Cadillac theme. Its the Catera that GM should have made for the US market from the beginning. But, I know expecting GM to do the logical thing from the start is asking too much.

So, does anyone know if this swap has been done? It seems like a natural especially with the new Monaro/GTO going to America. Thoughts?

the main problem your gonna have is that the Northstar is a fwd engine, so you are gonna have to fabricate just about everything. a vette six speed definitely wont work. the new rwd northstar that is in the SRX and XLR is 80% different from the current engine, so using those parts is out also. to me sounds like this swap would be a HUGE headache. putting in a LS1 would probably be a pain, but infinitely easier than putting in a North*

Actually, according to Commodore owners in Australia, installing an LS1 is a very easy swap as a version of the Commodore comes with the LS1 from the factory.

And, making the Northstar engine work in a RWD setup isn't that hard at all.* http://www.chrfab.com has made a business of selling Northstar engines setup for sandrunners or even hotrods. I've seen the Northstar in hotrods back at car shows in Tennessee. The owners never said it was a hard swap. Now, motormounts may be an issue, but I expected this to start with. But, I know the Catera (which is a Holden and Opel underneath after doing research) will accomodate the Northstar.

According to the above website, they use an S10 manual transmission but I was thinking that a Vette 6-speed would be stronger and better. GM people I have corresponded with online all have told me the Vette mission will bolt on. Even if they are mistaken, the S10 mission will work fine. You can find Northstar engines for sale on EBAY fairly cheap these days (often under $2500). A used 1997-98 Catera can be found for under $6000. I know shops back home that I can trust to do a good job, so for $10,000, I think a V8 powered Catera would make a damn fine car.

*Its been done here in Japan and seems to be getting more popular due to the weight savings. Swap an MR2 mid-engine configuration into a MarkIV Supra which is a RWD configuration. 500hp+ and a much much smaller engine that sits behind the front axle and is lighter than the standard MarkIV inline 6 engine.

I'm not saying a Northstar in the Catera will be a cakewalk, but in all my research, I see no reason why its either impossible or cost prohibitive either. Since the Northstar will fit into streetrods and work RWD, there is no reason to think it can't in a Catera. It will be awhile, but I can't wait to find out. I would love to see someone else do this swap even if I'm not the first.

Go for it...just make sure you keep us posted

Obviously you have done your research, and go for it!!! That would make a hell of a car!!!

Yeah, I have seen too many projects either die, cost too much, or have to be sold off due to poor planning. I want to get ALL the information FIRST before even turning a wrench. That way, all the parts can be bought at one time, take it to a shop, rip out the old stuff and then drop in the new. Should take less than a week to get it all installed and fine tuned.

I can't do this project right now, but its on my "To do list." I would like to be the first in the US with such a swap, but it won't break my heart if someone does it first. There is already a guy in New York swapping an RB20DET and a 5-speed into an Infiniti M30. I wanted to be the first, but now I just can't wait to see how it turns out. At least SOMEONE did it.:)

we're all rooting for you scourge...it's like the Monster Garage (discovery channel) good luck!

that would be really cool, i love cats and always thought they should have at least had a V8 option. either a N* or ls1 would be one hell of a car. Do it first so i can find out the bad stuff ahead of time:D

PS check out this site for some cool Cat stuff, but its a germany i think. http://www.pvdnet.co.uk/steinmetz/omega_bodystyling.asp

Originally posted by scourge

According to the above website, they use an S10 manual transmission but I was thinking that a Vette 6-speed would be stronger and better. GM people I have corresponded with online all have told me the Vette mission will bolt on. Even if they are mistaken, the S10 mission will work fine.

GM people should know that the Corvette tranny is mounted in the rear. You might want to think about using a Camaro 6speed tranny instead. In fact, it would be easier and cheaper to buy a Camaro/Trans Am drive train. Since the Catera was never made at a Cadillac factory anyway, you'd be keeping real buy using parts bin stuff just like GM did.

HA! Two threads here at one time. Its an explosion of new activity. :rose:

so any updates on this??

so any updates on this??


Yes, Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators told me that they can work the heads and get a new cam for a lot more power and a 5-speed will easily mate up for a RWD configuration. They did say the stock Catera drive shaft may/may not bolt right in. They didn't know the length of the drive shaft, so they couldn't say if it would work or if one would need a donor driveshaft from another car. I know a guy who can make custom aluminum drive shafts but why pay for custom work when a cheaper alternative will work just as well?

If anyone wants more info, you can email CHRFab at:


http://www.chrfab.com/


As for me doing this anytime soon, I can't. I am selling my Skyline becasue I am trying to move to the Japanese mainland. $1200USD just to ship the car to Osaka - not gonna pay that. And, if I do return to the USA this December to go to Graduate School, I'll get an Infiniti M30 and swap in an SR20 and 5 speed from over here - simply because its cheaper for me as I have access to the parts and people who can do the swap. Now, if I were staying long term in the USA and had the money, then I'd go with the Catera/Northstar.

I am so into this just got to run to work again

Getting bored working at Mercedes so much even doe AMG's are fun to drive trough the car wash. . .

I remember an article in gm hightech perf mag a while back about a catera with an ls6 swap done by Lingenfelter, complete with t56 trans. I have the mag at home, but couldn't find the link on its website. From what I remember, they said the motor and trans made it in fine, but the headers were a nightmare to fabricate, due to the fact that the US spec Cateras are about 2 inches narrower in the front than Aus Commodores. Later the ownder decided to upgrade the ls6 to 427 package, as if it weren't enough already :worship: They also menitoned that wiring was hell, as well as making all the gauges work properly and stuff. So I guess ls1/ls6 swap can be done, although with some inevitable headaches; I say contact Lingenfelter for more info.

Also, I'll bet Northstar swap will be more difficult, due to its DOHC heads (the narrow front body work may not accomodate the larger exterior dimension of the Northstar compared to ls1/ls6). Like others have said, the trans issue would remain, as well as motor mounts, etc. I say keep pushing for ls1/ls6 conversion.

Scan the article and post it here! CHRF has assured me that the swap isn't as difficult as an LS1 as they have expert knowledge with the Northstar and making trannies and the engine fit.

This will be interesting to watch..

For the person who talked about the Fieros... Well it is a rear wheel drive card with the motor mounted in the back! I am pretty sure they keep the transverse mount...

The only reason I would think the northstar swap to be harder is because the 4.6 DOHC is physically larger than the 5.7 LS1...

I emailed Lightenfelter a while back and they sad they done few conversions but they dont offer anymore at a time. Well I figure I have to wait wich I am ok with because I need to make all my money to make them a well enought offer while I do that i can mod my car and etc's and save money.

it's going to be long project but its one good way for that limit free HP and TORQUE. Thanks that we have V8's, but who sad V6's cant perform they well can in well tuned forms (example I got like 245HP and I can get up to 300HP) Those numbers keep me well happy. Imagine more V6's that easy can go into Catera like all new 255Hp CTS V6 I am thinking. Who knows that might be like direct fit also putting some mods on that and can be well making what NorthStart make's if not more for so much cheaper then putting Ls1. Just few ideas came up on my mind for those who want that extra HP against those Recaro design seat's in those fine Catera's.

Good luck you all and keep us posted on conversion. I know it's posible just takes about aprox 10.ooo$$$$$$ which I dont have being 19 and paying for my Catera in and out. Also taking re-desingn whole car making it total new German performing street max power Catera with nice rim's tire's, suspension, breaks and other etc's. I mind as well wait and save all my money for new CTS V thats going to come out which I cant wait to see. But for now I mind as well tune the most out of 6 cyl engine's.

Ls1 Catera Project.
tune to perfection

I just wanted to give some Tranny info for you. A C5 Vette trans deff will not work, but a C4 will. To save yourself time and money a 4th Gen Camaro's 6 speed is the same t-56. A S-10 5 speed is not the same T-5 as a Camaros, they have different input shaft splines and arn't interchangable without changing that Shaft. For the motor I agree the Northstar should be an easier swap, considering the electronics are the same. But if you deside to go with the LT1 or LS1 instead, Go with a Camaro's drivetrain and if you need info you can Email me Chevy91z@aol.com. I wish I could help you more with the swap but I might be at least be able to help you sort out electronics.

Thanks buddy

I am thinking is it posible to get automatic C4 tranny? For sure ha? I hope.... Well for engine I would sure get Ls1 over North or LT1. New CTS V should have LS6 so why should I put North or LT1? I think Ls1 should be very good swap with that C4 auto tranny with maybe some gear work and shift kit to get effect almost of manual tranny without having to convert to one.

Also one thing on my mind if swap at it's cheapest would be 10G's with engine and trany and labor at its cheapes doing work with friends and myself. Think this way investing some money into my engine. I alredy have some mods as intake, chip, custom exaust on my 3.0 V6 that is prob around 230HP at least not counting few other little things done to it. Custom headers can bring up to maybe extra 10-15HP which are like $1000 with installation. Improved fuel injectors not really reserch into another maybe 10HP. Getting some hight flow cats another 5 to 10HP. What about a bore to 3.2L if posible for maybe another G or 2. That can bring few extra maybe 25%. Also 2000 Catera sport torque converter can deliver some improvement. Griffit custom radiator can be also probably fit in. I am also not counting any custom ram air hood for intake induction. All those things are aprox to where 300HP mark is at. Spend maybe half of what V8 engine conversion would be and all the problems it might give.

I am not saying I am giving up on doing it it just seem more reolistic for me for now to save more and think more for later improvements for my car. Not sure what they are about to be.

Thanks for your info

any reaply would help.

Catera Project.

I see your point in wanting to just invest in the catera's stock engine - however...the biggest point of doing a swap in the first place would be to get an engine that's actually stable and reliable in that car.

The catera is such a great looking car - just not reliable. I know because I own one myself!

Eric

Thanks buddy

I am thinking is it posible to get automatic C4 tranny? For sure ha? I hope.... Well for engine I would sure get Ls1 over North or LT1. New CTS V should have LS6 so why should I put North or LT1? I think Ls1 should be very good swap with that C4 auto tranny with maybe some gear work and shift kit to get effect almost of manual tranny without having to convert to one.

Also one thing on my mind if swap at it's cheapest would be 10G's with engine and trany and labor at its cheapes doing work with friends and myself. Think this way investing some money into my engine. I alredy have some mods as intake, chip, custom exaust on my 3.0 V6 that is prob around 230HP at least not counting few other little things done to it. Custom headers can bring up to maybe extra 10-15HP which are like $1000 with installation. Improved fuel injectors not really reserch into another maybe 10HP. Getting some hight flow cats another 5 to 10HP. What about a bore to 3.2L if posible for maybe another G or 2. That can bring few extra maybe 25%. Also 2000 Catera sport torque converter can deliver some improvement. Griffit custom radiator can be also probably fit in. I am also not counting any custom ram air hood for intake induction. All those things are aprox to where 300HP mark is at. Spend maybe half of what V8 engine conversion would be and all the problems it might give.

I am not saying I am giving up on doing it it just seem more reolistic for me for now to save more and think more for later improvements for my car. Not sure what they are about to be.

Thanks for your info

any reaply would help.

Catera Project.

LS1, going with the Northstar keeps the Cadillac theme going. Sure, there may be a more powerful engine but is it smoother and in the end that much of a better choice? Thats all up to the individual, but I would prefer keeping everything Cadillac that I could. Someone will always be faster no matter what....but will they be better overall? Even if they could be, I prefer to go all Caddy and enjoy knowing I have what Caddy could have and should have made to start with.

Choosing something else isn't wrong or better/worse really. But, I would say having a fully powered Caddy would shock a hell of a lot of people. If I were in the US and could find the donor parts fast, I'd send the car to www.chrfab.com and let them do their magic. Maybe someone will do such a swap....someday.

I say forget the costly engine swap and just throw a 50-75 shot on there, as well as custom headers, 3000rpm stall torque converter and you will be set. You will have one strong V6 and probably the fastest Catera around...

An aftermarket torque converter really wakes up any auto car. This will increase your off the line quickness a lot. You can have a custom one made from http://www.protorque.com. It will probably cost around $600 but it is well worth it.

I just found out that the Catera has a 4L30E tranny which is kinda rare as far as I know. So this will have to be a truly custom job, which is still worth it imo...

http://www.hpsalvage.com/

If you look under project cars, they put a Northstar into a '94 Camaro. Maybe someone there can offer some info.

dohcpower, true, but some people prefer total performance over having a car thats just a one note wonder. This is why Caddy is going after BMW - handling. I would much prefer a Northstar with a 5-speed swap and coilovers that I know will be fast in a straight line anyway but also has the correct transmission and suspension to attack the corners. I know some people like drag racing but others want more and this is why simply adding nitrous isn't enough.

so can you give me any more info on these torque converters? Im not too sure what they are exactly, also what kind of performance gains would we be looking at with one and at what cost? thanks

EDIT: when i say "cost" i mean detrimental effect to the vehicle or its performance.

i am looking to get headers for my custom RWD configuration in my car.. anyone know of a place that does it/known to do it?

Thanx Soccrplayrgtp,

1994 Grand Prix GTP
93-97 Northstar Vin 9
Tremec 3650/3550/ T-56??
1987 Grand National 10 bolt 8.5" Posi

Sup all

Happy on coming Hollidays!

How you all doing? I been 100% working, going to colledge, tuning my car and just kicking it. I am so happy with my Catera so far. I hope it keeps on runing like a German build car as it had since I got it in end of 2002 I belive.

Again it's a 97 black with: Ice Man Cold Air Intake, 2.5 Super Singal Cat Back with Magna Flow dual shape box type exaust, Resistor Mod, aprox 60 pound weight reduction, CuZo 2000 fog lights with driving lamps (old lights removed where new once installed which lets more of that fresh air to the intake with heater hose pointed to K&N filter.), dark window tint on back and light tint on from 2 windals and few more things like darken out black Caddy logo and Catera name removal to get that clean looking rear end few other etc's

Good news are: I already recieved INTRAX lowering springs by mail. Its took me some time to save up. Finaly as I got those now I am thinking on getting new shocks. I am not sure if I am going for hight performance shocks? Maybe I might just get new upgraded sporty shocks found on 2000 and 2001 Catera. It would save me lots of money because I can get up to 20% off from local Caddy since I work for dellership myself. Once car will get profecianaly lowered I am thinking on getting OZ racing Super Legera light weight racing rims in black to match my car or just some good looking racing rims under 1G with tires if I could. Then break's come first with maybe new Sloted up rotors up front and plain new once from Brembro in the back with some nice break pads.

After that if I was about to get some more HP I would get 2 Random Technology cats and some hight performance spark plug wires. Torque convertor is very good investment I belive. Can some one answer my question please. Ok what if I put the 2000 Catera Sport Torque convertor in my 97 Catera?? I belive they sad it was hight speed toruque convertor which was as an upgrade in those years. It would be way cheaper then getting other upgraded one for me because as again I would get up to 20% off the tag.

I am hope I can get some pic's soon after I am done with lowering. As of now you can find my pic's in CTS VS CATERA all known short on point tred that was so long I dont know if they still have it. And if they do would a moderator please put some of those pics in Caddy section.

Well I would keep you all posted on my project and good luck to all!

how hard would it be to swap a northstar into a 85 fwd deville

The engine swap i'd be tempted to do would be the Buick V6 turbo into the catera...you know, the Buick T-type or Grand National engine.....might not be toooo much faster than a stock catera, but do you have any idea what the aftermarket is for those engines?
Plus, its a v6 which is lighter and smaller than the V8...
If your going to do a V8 i would go with the LS1/t56....theyre on eBay alll the time and you could get a decent one for 3,500-4,000 dollars probably....
Theyre small and lighter and more powerful than the northstar probably.
Only downside to the LS1 is the avalibilty of aftermarket parts, and the price. If you were to do an LT1 swap, your options as far as upgrades would be unlimited....the Chevy smallblock 350 is probably the most widely used V8, and people have been making aftermarket parts for them for decades. for probably a thousand bucks less than the LS1/T56 combo, you could get an LT1/T56. Then with the extra money, if you want power, save up for the LT4 converson kit......proven 425+ HP. I've also seen 383 stroker kits on eBay, that would bring STOCK hp up to 430 or so HP plus gobs of torque.....and on ebay they go for under 700 bucks. By doing both of those , you'd have a completly rebuilt motor, probably like 500 or more RWHP, and so many inexpensive aftermarket parts avalable should you ever decide to change anything. That would be a MONSTER.
If you have some $$ and just want some power, why not see about a custom supercharger or turbo setup?
You could pull the turbos off like a Saab or something for cheap, just get the exhaust made, some brackets and other hardware, and instantly have more HP and torque.

Have you given any thought to putting a 3.6 liter CTS engine/transmission into the CAT? I'm sure that the Auto recyclers have some on the racks. More power, and no rubber band timing belts.:burn:And you can get the computer modules too!