: Northstar Stalls On Restart



El Dobro
02-06-04, 03:45 PM
My 98 Seville stalls on restarts. Lets say that when I would pull into a gas station to fill up there's usually a 5 to 10 minute waiting period before I would start the car to leave. When I start it, it stalls right out without really catching. To keep it going, I would have to hold the gas pedal down for just a few seconds and it would idle fine after that. It doesn't matter whether it Summer or Winter and it happens after the drivetrain is totally warmed up. To top it off, it does it sporadically.There are no codes at all. I'm thinking maybe a lazy idle air control valve.

elwesso
02-06-04, 03:55 PM
Im thinking maybe a leaky injector?? The pressure bleeds down on one or more cylinders and floods the engine... on more extended startups, the gas can drain down past the ring......

El Dobro
02-06-04, 06:25 PM
Nope. I already checked everything with a fuel pressure gauge. Naturally nothing happens when the dealer had the car either. That's why I'm checking to see if anyone else has experienced the same thing and came up with the solution. This way I can point the dealer in the right direction and not get the "yea, right" look.

El Dobro
02-20-04, 06:36 PM
Stalled again today when I had it filled up. Suggestions?

BeelzeBob
02-20-04, 07:12 PM
Stalled again today when I had it filled up. Suggestions?

Have you tried cleaning the throttle body bore to eliminate any deposits that may have built up that could reduce the airflow around the edge of the throttle blade and reduce the idle air control authority? That is the first thing that I would check.

Check the fuel pressure regulator by pulling the vacuum line off while the engine is idling and watch the vacuum nipple for any sign of fuel.

Does the idle speed seem OK otherwise? Any stalling at any other time? Does the idle speed elevate to a slightly higher level when the engine is cold? Does it stall on a cold start?

The other thing to do is to clean the idle air control port to make sure that the bypass air is not restricted. Cleaning the IAC valve might help and/or replacing it..... Usually if it works it works and if it is broke it stops working...no inbetween.

kevinK
02-20-04, 08:50 PM
Do what Bbob said, but I am not sure about the cleaning IAC valve part. According to Alldatadiy, the IAC valve can not be cleaned or adjusted.

Good luck.

El Dobro
02-20-04, 10:50 PM
The engine only stalls when it's at the normal operating temperature and has been off between approx. 5 to 10 minutes. It does not stall when started sooner or later than that period. No stumbling, no cold start stalling and has a normal cold start higher idle. There's even no guarantee that it will stall. It's that intermittant. There aren't any codes either.
It was stalling when I purchased the car from the dealer last year. At the time, I cleaned the throttle body with spray and a toothbrush. I also checked the pressure regulator for leaks. When the dealer had the car, they cleaned the throttle body, too. They also changed the pressure regulator. Personally, I don't think there was anything wrong with it, but they paid for it.
If I get a chance tomorrow, I'm going to pull the IAC valve and spray the ports. I'll check the condition of the valve, too. Maybe it's gunked up. You gotta love it!

El Dobro
02-21-04, 03:31 PM
Ok, had a chance to pull everything apart and spray the throttle body again. I removed the IAC valve and the thing was dirty, so I carefully cleaned the plunger and also sprayed the seat 'til everything was nice and shiny. I'll post my findings either way.

Vesicant
02-21-04, 06:40 PM
My Catera is having a VERY simmular problem and im about ready to do that same thing as you have done, El Dobro.

Lets both hope it will/has fixed the problem!

maydog
02-21-04, 07:17 PM
Could the EGR get stuck open without throwing any codes. I had starting problems on another car caused by a sticking EGR valve.

El Dobro
02-24-04, 07:44 PM
No stalls yet. It's come close twice where it would idle a little slow for a split second upon restart but jumped right up to a normal idle. With this happening after cleaning the IAC valve, I guess that means the thing is working a hair slower than it should.

El Dobro
02-27-04, 04:49 PM
Stalled when I had the car filled up today. You gotta love it.

BeelzeBob
02-27-04, 10:34 PM
Stalled when I had the car filled up today. You gotta love it.
Crank sensors would be the next guess then. Everything else seems to work too well and be too repeatable for there to be a problem. It may just be heat/age/miles causing one of the crank sensors to start to get weak and the engine stalls before the code for a crank sensor can set and default to one or the other.

El Dobro
02-28-04, 02:09 PM
Yep, bbob, that'll be my next move. By the way, are there any other symptoms that old crank sensors give you?

BeelzeBob
02-28-04, 07:59 PM
Yep, bbob, that'll be my next move. By the way, are there any other symptoms that old crank sensors give you?
The stall on a hot restart is the most likely place for them to show up...or just stalls in general. The gap between the sensor and the crank reluctor wheel is fixed by the block dimensions and the crank diameter and so forth. It is a net build so you get what you get. If yours (theorizing here) are maybe at the high end of the gap so the signal is on the lower end anyway it was fine all these years and then as the performance of the crank sensor starts to drop off it might start to show up in a stressed situation...such as rapidly decreasing RPM when the engine is particularily unstabile...like just after a hot restart and the idle flares and dropss.... If you are ambitious you could pull the sensors and grind a little plastic off the land that they seat on so they seat a little deeper and try that to see if it has an effect.....just an idea.

El Dobro
03-02-04, 07:26 PM
As long as I'm under the car, I may just change both crank sensors. They don't cost me much and it's easier just doing it once.

joeveto
03-03-04, 11:01 PM
As long as I'm under the car, I may just change both crank sensors. They don't cost me much and it's easier just doing it once.
My Eldo did the SAME thing this week. I stopped to fill up. I checked the oil. I went to start the car. It turned over, caught, then nothing. I tried again, and the same thing. I fired off an angry phone call, which took a few minutes. Then, the car started right up. No issue. I've not had it happen since.

In my case, I thought that the rain soaked hood may have dumped a ton of moisture on something critical, when I popped it open to check the oil. My other thought was a leaky injector. But the car really doesn't have enough miles on it for that to be the case.

So if you find your answer, or if I find mine, let's compare notes.

I half want to go and fill up again, just to see if it happens again.

olaf_sc
03-04-04, 04:42 PM
Hm, have a hard time thinking this is the cranks sensors, if one of them fails the engine will keep going. A bit rough but it's going just fine and you will get a error code. Even if it's a fairly rapid fail/stall the engine will still turn around at least a once. This should be sufficient for getting the "crank sensor fail" error codes (don't remember the codes in my head) unless I'm totaly off (please correct me if I'm wrong). Have there been actual cases of crank sensor failing in this kind of way? I mean they are extermly simple devices basically just a coil generating a puls as the sensor wheel is passing. Unless the get a short in the coil (don't try to messure the resistance it's very low) they should in theory work until the car is junk.

Cheers



The stall on a hot restart is the most likely place for them to show up...or just stalls in general. The gap between the sensor and the crank reluctor wheel is fixed by the block dimensions and the crank diameter and so forth. It is a net build so you get what you get. If yours (theorizing here) are maybe at the high end of the gap so the signal is on the lower end anyway it was fine all these years and then as the performance of the crank sensor starts to drop off it might start to show up in a stressed situation...such as rapidly decreasing RPM when the engine is particularily unstabile...like just after a hot restart and the idle flares and dropss.... If you are ambitious you could pull the sensors and grind a little plastic off the land that they seat on so they seat a little deeper and try that to see if it has an effect.....just an idea.

BeelzeBob
03-05-04, 11:46 AM
Hm, have a hard time thinking this is the cranks sensors, if one of them fails the engine will keep going. A bit rough but it's going just fine and you will get a error code. Even if it's a fairly rapid fail/stall the engine will still turn around at least a once. This should be sufficient for getting the "crank sensor fail" error codes (don't remember the codes in my head) unless I'm totaly off (please correct me if I'm wrong). Have there been actual cases of crank sensor failing in this kind of way? I mean they are extermly simple devices basically just a coil generating a puls as the sensor wheel is passing. Unless the get a short in the coil (don't try to messure the resistance it's very low) they should in theory work until the car is junk.

Cheers

Well....this is true to a point. The system needs both crank sensors to work correctly. The logic in the soft ware is looking for both crank sensors to input data to fire the ignition correctly and to send the correct reference signal to the computer from the coil pack. The system has onboard diagnostic software that looks at each sensor and determines it's state of health on a continuous basis. Obviously, there is some logic in that soft ware that determines if the signal that is coming in is "good" or not. So...the sensor has to be "bad" and send either non-existent or "bad" data to the ICM in the coil pack so that the system can determine that it is "bad" and revert to the backup mode of operation using only one crank sensor. That usually happens without a glitch...but...if a sensor is just on the edge of getting weak and happens to miss just one pulse from the reluctor wheel notches it could send erroneous info to the ICM at the coil pack and not be detected as "bad" since the engine stalled as a result of that "one" bad data bit before the diaqnostic software could detect the erroneous data. Then the next time the engine turns over the sensor sends good info and every thing is fine. If a sensor is just a tiny bit too far from the reluctor wheel due to build tolerances and the signal starts to get just a little bit weak then then this "could" happen. It is hard to envision and recreate but it "could" happen and not set a crank sensor code and not revert to "single sensor backup mode" quick enough to catch the engine and prevent a stall. The engine is really so unstable on a hot restart in park when the RPM flares and then settles down to idle that any small misfire or missing/erroneous crank sensor input could cause a stall before the system has a chance to catch the error or revert to the backup mode.

The other possiblitly here is that there is a secondary ignition wire (high voltage spark plug wire) that is too near the low voltage wires of the coil pack that carry the crank sensor signals that is inducing some noise on one of the wires....I would rearrange the secondary ignition leads/low voltage wires connecting to the coil pack to make sure that this is not an issue before I would replace the crank sensors I guess.

TrboVan
03-05-04, 04:36 PM
Any word if that was the problem?

El Dobro
03-06-04, 12:51 PM
I'm going to try and get to the sensors on Tuesday. The only problem is that the stalling is so unpredictable. Since I've cleaned the IAC valve, it's stalled once and tried to stall twice, but there was a period of time before I cleaned it that it didn't stall at all and there was a period that it stalled all the time.

BeelzeBob
03-06-04, 11:20 PM
That is the hard part about intermittant problems like that....just have to replace them and look at the situation over the long haul....

El Dobro
03-09-04, 06:04 PM
Ok, who wrote the factory shop manual, Chilton? Raise car, unplug sensor and remove, insert new sensor and plug, lower car. Yea, right. The things are buried. It looks like I may be able to get my hand in there if I remove the oil filter adapter. Has anyone ever changed the crank sensors on a 98+ Seville?

JimD
03-09-04, 06:45 PM
Ok, who wrote the factory shop manual, Chilton? Raise car, unplug sensor and remove, insert new sensor and plug, lower car. Yea, right. The things are buried. It looks like I may be able to get my hand in there if I remove the oil filter adapter. Has anyone ever changed the crank sensors on a 98+ Seville?

I have not "replaced" the crank position sensors, but I have torqued on the mounting bolts while chasing an oil seep problem. And yes, I did drop the oil filter adapter as a first step (during an oil and filter change ) to reach the crank sensors.

If your Service Manual is like mine, with a disclaimer stating "The information cutoff date is 05/06/97.", beware of procedural differences from 1997 platform to 1998 platform that the tech writers were not aware of. My book set is wrong in several (too many) places.

El Dobro
03-10-04, 08:48 PM
Ok, I went through the shop manuals for Sevilles and I got up to 2001 before they tell you that you access the crank sensors by removing the oil filter adapter. In that manual, it also says that you have to conform the new sensors to the vehicle with a Tech 2 scanner. Is that a necessary step? bbob, are you still following this thread?

BeelzeBob
03-10-04, 10:49 PM
Ok, I went through the shop manuals for Sevilles and I got up to 2001 before they tell you that you access the crank sensors by removing the oil filter adapter. In that manual, it also says that you have to conform the new sensors to the vehicle with a Tech 2 scanner. Is that a necessary step? bbob, are you still following this thread?


Take the plastic splash panel off that goes between the radiator cradle and the engine cradle...with the splash panel loose you can reach over the top of the engine cradle and get to the sensors easier. Even from straight below you can get to the sensors by removing the bolts in the filter adapter and moving it to one side. The sensors are pretty easy to get out as just the bolt needs to be removed and the sensor pulls out of the block. I don't think that the sensor needs to be verified with a Tech tool.... That is part of the instructional iron cladding to make sure that someone makes sure the car runs after the repair....LOL If you change the sensors and the engine runs it is fine...there is no characterization of the sensors or any specs to set or anything....

CadiJeff
03-11-04, 01:38 AM
Have you checked the Idle speed Control Motor? My mom's deville had a similar problem and the code for the ISC didn't set until it was almost completely dead!

El Dobro
03-11-04, 03:13 PM
I tried every way around to get to the sensors. They're right behind the front mount, so it looks like the manual is actually right on the way to get to them. I'll wait 'til it gets warmer and because I just changed the oil. In the mean time, I'll see if it stalls again.

El Dobro
03-17-04, 02:03 PM
On my way in to work, I was rolling along at about 30mph in a traffic jam when the engine shut down. Luckily, there was room to pull over. I started the car back up and went on my way. This time, I have a code in history and it's P1599. Maybe that'll help figuring the problem out.

cobraz1
03-17-04, 02:45 PM
Has anyone had the problem where the gas pedal pulls away from the foot and the stalling and rough idle are all involded, I start the car drive to work fifteen minutes wait about 30 min start the car it starts but idles crazy and theres a clicking sound along with the gas pedal being suck down. the car will not run unless you brake and gas same time, shut it off and wait about five minutes and walla everything is much better, I have also had some of the other problem like cruising along and have it just quite. scary as hell. wife won't drive anymore

El Dobro
03-17-04, 03:29 PM
Sounds like it could be the ISC motor. What do you have?

BeelzeBob
03-17-04, 04:04 PM
Has anyone had the problem where the gas pedal pulls away from the foot and the stalling and rough idle are all involded, I start the car drive to work fifteen minutes wait about 30 min start the car it starts but idles crazy and theres a clicking sound along with the gas pedal being suck down. the car will not run unless you brake and gas same time, shut it off and wait about five minutes and walla everything is much better, I have also had some of the other problem like cruising along and have it just quite. scary as hell. wife won't drive anymore


Sounds like the idle speed control motor is failing....that is what is causing the clicking...the idle speed control motor is racheting. If it is really "scary as hell" why don't you simply take it to a Cadillac dealer where they can easily diagnose and fix the problem...it really sounds like a simple problem...or maybe you don't want your wife driving the car....????? LOL

El Dobro
03-17-04, 08:22 PM
Hey bbob, does P1599 give you an idea of what may be going on with my 98? This is the first time it stalled while I was moving.

BeelzeBob
03-17-04, 09:54 PM
Hey bbob, does P1599 give you an idea of what may be going on with my 98? This is the first time it stalled while I was moving.


No, unfortunately, the P1599 just confirms what you already knew...that the engine stalled.....that is all the code means...engine stall detected.

El Dobro
03-17-04, 11:31 PM
Back to the drawing board.

El Dobro
03-20-04, 02:23 PM
Hopefully, I'll be changing the sensors this week. Does anyone if the oil filter adapter bolts have to be loctited or anything?

BeelzeBob
03-21-04, 12:54 AM
Hopefully, I'll be changing the sensors this week. Does anyone if the oil filter adapter bolts have to be loctited or anything?

No, but it won't hurt to use a low grade of loctite on them. You really should replace the large o-rings that seal the oil filter adapter to the block when it is off.

El Dobro
03-21-04, 08:12 AM
Yep, I picked up the adapter o-rings along with the sensors.
Here's another question. The upper sensor is A and the lower sensor is B. Since the sensors themselves are the same, so the connectors should be able to be swapped, what would happen if the connectors were plugged into the opposite ones? I looked up the wire colors to make sure they go where they're suppose to, but I'm just curious. Thanks again.

BeelzeBob
03-21-04, 10:08 PM
Yep, I picked up the adapter o-rings along with the sensors.
Here's another question. The upper sensor is A and the lower sensor is B. Since the sensors themselves are the same, so the connectors should be able to be swapped, what would happen if the connectors were plugged into the opposite ones? I looked up the wire colors to make sure they go where they're suppose to, but I'm just curious. Thanks again.

I believe you will set several codes and the system will revert to the single sensor mode of operation......haven't tried that in a long time...LOL...so I really don't specifically remember...

lowscola
03-24-04, 05:35 PM
Unfortunatley I may be visiting this thread from now on. Wife said my DHS cut off at a light the other day and today after being parked for a few hours took two tries to crank up...and I just went over 50k last weekend!

joeveto
03-24-04, 10:58 PM
How much do crank sensors cost?

El Dobro
03-24-04, 11:25 PM
They're about $42-44 each.

BeelzeBob
03-25-04, 02:22 PM
Unfortunatley I may be visiting this thread from now on. Wife said my DHS cut off at a light the other day and today after being parked for a few hours took two tries to crank up...and I just went over 50k last weekend!

By DHS I assume it is a 2000 or later....???....the mileage shouldn't matter...if your Cadillac dealer is worth anything they should warranty the crank sensors with all the retrofits and superceding of crank sensors that has gone on with the 2000 and later style sensors. I would talk to them first and if they are uncooperative call the Cadillac customer service number.

lowscola
03-25-04, 03:10 PM
Yeah bbobynski it's a 2001 DHS. The thing is I didn't actually by the car from the cadilac dealer, I just took it there to get it checked out. I'm unfamiliar with this thing about crank sensors. Is it a common/reccuring problem?

BeelzeBob
03-25-04, 03:34 PM
Yeah bbobynski it's a 2001 DHS. The thing is I didn't actually by the car from the cadilac dealer, I just took it there to get it checked out. I'm unfamiliar with this thing about crank sensors. Is it a common/reccuring problem?

The crank sensors on the 2000 and later Northstars were a bit problematic....

Playdrv4me
03-25-04, 03:35 PM
Yeah bbobynski it's a 2001 DHS. The thing is I didn't actually by the car from the cadilac dealer, I just took it there to get it checked out. I'm unfamiliar with this thing about crank sensors. Is it a common/reccuring problem?

I am almost certain that BOTH your problem and El Dobro's (after he posted that his did cut off right in the middle of traffic) are Crank Position Sensors now after reading through all of this.

Lowscola, the CPS is a VERY common problem with the NS motor in these years, so common in fact, that on my 2001 STS they had been already replaced once BEFORE i got the car, and then had to be replaced AGAIN after I bought it. Your dealer should service the car no matter where you bought it, if its within mileage theres no reason you shouldnt be able to point this out to the dealer, most competent dealers will know this problem immediately upon mentioning the symptoms. Thing is it DID throw a code in mine, and its unusual that it hasnt for El Dobro, but the symptoms are just very similar to CPS failure.

El Dobro
03-25-04, 06:50 PM
Yep, the only time there was a code was when it stalled in traffic, and all the code said was "you stalled".

BeelzeBob
03-26-04, 10:49 AM
Once again....the crank position sensor design/function/architecture changed completely from the 1993-1999 design and the 2000 and later design. Comparing problems/symptoms/codes/lack of codes/likelyhood of failure/etc. between those two different families of engines/sensors will lead to false conclusions and errors....

The crank sensors and ignition system for the 1993-1999 was pretty bulletproof and over the course of manufacturing about a million engines there are very few problems with that system and those crank sensors. Not to say that there aren't some failing and/or getting weak about now due to miles and temp and such...but....just normal business.

There were issues with the 2000 and later design that relate to the quality control of the manufacturing process at the supplier...or the lack there-of... There were situations where the crank sensors would fail and not set crank sensor codes. On a 2000 and later with random stalls and no starts the crank sensors are a good guess. Just, you can't necessarily apply this logic to the 1993-1999 engines....nor do the problems with the 2000 and later sensors apply to the 1993-1999 system. They are completely different in design/location/function/etc.... Totally different ignition systems.

tdyguy2k
03-27-04, 12:34 PM
The more that I read of this thread, the more that I think I might have a similar problem. The car has stalled a few times for no apparent reason. And after a couple of "non-starts" (car didn't start on first try), the SES light would come on and the code would be for crank position circuit malfunction. :banghead: How involved is it to fix this problem myself? Thanks for any help.

Playdrv4me
03-27-04, 01:08 PM
Once again....the crank position sensor design/function/architecture changed completely from the 1993-1999 design and the 2000 and later design. Comparing problems/symptoms/codes/lack of codes/likelyhood of failure/etc. between those two different families of engines/sensors will lead to false conclusions and errors....

The crank sensors and ignition system for the 1993-1999 was pretty bulletproof and over the course of manufacturing about a million engines there are very few problems with that system and those crank sensors. Not to say that there aren't some failing and/or getting weak about now due to miles and temp and such...but....just normal business.

There were issues with the 2000 and later design that relate to the quality control of the manufacturing process at the supplier...or the lack there-of... There were situations where the crank sensors would fail and not set crank sensor codes. On a 2000 and later with random stalls and no starts the crank sensors are a good guess. Just, you can't necessarily apply this logic to the 1993-1999 engines....nor do the problems with the 2000 and later sensors apply to the 1993-1999 system. They are completely different in design/location/function/etc.... Totally different ignition systems.

I agree, however, I was simply pointing out (as was earlier in this thread) that this sounds almost like a textbook case of CPS failure from the LATER engines, but as I mentioned before, the fact that a specific CPS code has not been thrown is unusual.

BeelzeBob
03-27-04, 09:20 PM
The more that I read of this thread, the more that I think I might have a similar problem. The car has stalled a few times for no apparent reason. And after a couple of "non-starts" (car didn't start on first try), the SES light would come on and the code would be for crank position circuit malfunction. :banghead: How involved is it to fix this problem myself? Thanks for any help.


You think...???....based on the symptoms and the code I would say it is a near certainty. LOL Changing the crank sensors is pretty straight forward. Just get them (two...A and B) from GM, R&R the sensors and you're done. Nothing to adjust or set. Just remove the old ones and install the new ones. They are on the side of the block above the oil filter adapter...on the left/front side of the engine accessible from underneath. It is easier to access the crank sensors if you remove the plastic blockour panel between the rad support and the engine cradle...tough to get to them otherwise. One bolt holds each in...just remove the bolt, pull the old one out and plug the new one in and reinstall the bolt.

tdyguy2k
03-28-04, 03:19 AM
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.:D :coolgleam

El Dobro
03-28-04, 06:58 PM
I finally had a chance to change the crank sensors today. I don't know about the other years, but you do have to remove the oil filter adapter to get to them on the 98+ Sevilles. Glad I have an SLS so I didn't have to screw around with engine oil cooler lines. Now it's just wait and see.

Hey bbob. The lower sensor was loaded with the red Loctite gasket maker. I had to clean it up to make sure the o-ring seated against the block. Just wondering if that would have made a difference with the sensor picking up the crank. Oh, and you can't mix the connectors up. The upper one is white and has a big lip on it so you can only plug it into the top sensor.

El Dobro
04-08-04, 06:33 PM
I had to move my car at work today. It sat for about 7 minutes before I went out to move it. I cranked it over and it stalled. Tried it again and it stalled again. On the third try, I held the gas pedal down slightly and it caught.

The car is going to the dealer Monday because the suspension makes noise and the trans clunks, so I'm adding the stalling to the list. We'll see what happens.

lowscola
04-12-04, 02:34 PM
You guys were right on the money. I finally pulled the codes from my DeVille and one indeed did reference the "Cam Position Sensor". Dealer is replacing now. They also said that the map sensor had threw a code but I'm pretty much getting a 2-for-1 fix with this cam position sensor replacement. It's a $180 job.

I had so much happen at one time. My Service Engine Soon Light was on for about a week until I burned through all of my 89 octane and then filled up with 93. After a while the light went off. Don't know if the gas had anything to do with it or what. Maybee it was a combination of the map and cam position sensors acting up.

The thing that is hurting me with this repair visit is that I'm also getting my drivers side window fixed. About a week and a half ago, i did a quick down and back up with my window, and on the way up a heard a crunch/crackle like the glass had broken. I could still roll it down but it wouldn't go up. After manually lifting the glass I was surprised to see it wasn't broken. I figured it must have fractured something towards the bottom. I started to take it to the average glass/windsheild replacement outfit but figured that if there was something wrong with the motor I would wind up at the dealer anyway. The dealer told me that the noise I heard was the belt being chewed up and my glass was still OK. The motor and such is costing $490! $329 for the parts alone. That must be a big a$$ window motor...

Can't wait to pick it up...I'm driving the wifes expedition now and missed my caddy on the drive to work.

lowscola
04-12-04, 02:44 PM
I forgot to metion this nice web page I found that helped me decode my OBD II codes. It is a pretty comprehensive reference. It's kind of reasuring when you know what the codes are before you go in for service. When the dealer told me today about the cam position sensor it wasn't the first time I had heard of such a thing as is normally the case.

Dont act as if you havn't been on the other end of a conversation that went: "Yeah Mr. [you name here], you need a flux relay voltage deployment sensor for your left SPI-data transistor". Anyway the site:

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/resources-cad.html

It has a lot of usefull stuff. I might use some of it whenever I get around to doing my page.

El Dobro
04-14-04, 10:49 AM
The car was at the dealer the last two days and they found no problem nor could they duplicate it. Well, when I got to work and parked the car for a few minutes and then moved it, it stalled. Must be me.