: Sticky-Noisy Valve Lifters, What to Do?



Elmer Fudd
07-08-06, 05:57 PM
I just bought a 99 Deville Concours (forgive my spelling). It has an intermittent clicking near the firewall. I bought it from an independant dealer, and naturally it did not do this when I test drove it. It has 110K on it.

The previous owner was meticulous, to say the least, about maintenance. The local dealer had maintenance records for this car from day one. Oil every 3000 K (Mobile 1) filters, lubes, etc. She had complained about the ticking at 105 K and the report from the service dept back then basically said it was a sticky lifter and it was not worth tearing into the motor since they would probably not be able to tell what to replace anyway. The service manager told her to "drive it until it stops", it was not a problem to worry about.

I called one of the service reps at the dealer I have known for years and she told me the same thing....probably some dirt trapped in there, especially since it is intermittent (clicks about 70% of the time).

It is not real loud, but I am fussy about cars and it is driving me NUTS ! I am trying some Chevron Fuel system cleaner but after 1/2 tank still no change. The oil level is good and clean (recently changed at dealer).

I am reluctant to use any of the "cleaners" that you add to oil.

Any suggestions please????????

Ranger
07-08-06, 10:00 PM
Marvel Mytery Oil has always been known to cure sticky lifters. Another old trick is to add a qt. of trans fluid inplace of motor oil next time you top it off. Trans fluid is very high detergent.

Elmer Fudd
07-08-06, 11:21 PM
Marvel Mytery Oil has always been known to cure sticky lifters. Another old trick is to add a qt. of trans fluid inplace of motor oil next time you top it off. Trans fluid is very high detergent.

Should I only run it with the MMO for a few hundred miles, then change the oil out???

Ranger
07-09-06, 11:31 AM
Haven't used that stuff in eons. Follow the instruction on the can.

Elmer Fudd
07-09-06, 12:16 PM
Haven't used that stuff in eons. Follow the instruction on the can.

Thanks for the advice.......:thumbsup:

OnDaSlab
07-09-06, 08:06 PM
i just added a quart of MMO yesterday since i did my oil change.
I also tried auto-rx, worked a little better but noise came back after months of not using it.
but as long as i use it , haven't heard anything.

Elmer Fudd
07-10-06, 11:07 PM
i just added a quart of MMO yesterday since i did my oil change.
I also tried auto-rx, worked a little better but noise came back after months of not using it.
but as long as i use it , haven't heard anything.

thanks for input. I have tried CD2. Been about 100 miles and it is improving. Not as noticable and now the noise occurs less than half the time instead of most of the time. I hope it continues to improve. I don't want to add any thing else to this batch of oil. In a couple K miles when it is due to change I MAY try Gunk Valve Medic for a brief while prior to the change. I have seen a lot of people comment on its effectiveness....:stirpot:

unruley247
07-14-06, 07:45 AM
I had a sticky lifter and my mech recommended seafoam work great within a day tapping was gone forever.

Elmer Fudd
07-14-06, 05:30 PM
I had a sticky lifter and my mech recommended seafoam work great within a day tapping was gone forever.


No kidding?? I will have to look that stuff up.

It has been almost 400 miles and the CD2 has helped, but it is not eliminated....

unruley247
07-14-06, 05:56 PM
I don't know where u live but check carquest for this product

mtflight
07-17-06, 04:38 PM
There are many products on ther market. Berryman B12 (can get it an Autozone, Walmart, Pep Boys, O'Reilly, etc) has been recommended to clean lifters too. you pour it in the crankcase, idle for a few mins then change your oil (it has two sets of directions--one for fuel tank other for crankcase).

The thought of all these solvents in the engine makes me a little worried. I use it in the fuel system (never used it in the crankcase) about 3 x per year or less.

Keep us updated as to if any of these solutions work for you. Cheers.

Elmer Fudd
07-17-06, 05:15 PM
The CD2 seemed to help, but after 400 mi. it was still noticable, just less frequent. Sooooo....hearing such good things about sea foam I put in 2/3 can (as per directions) in the crankcase on top of the CD2. I wasn't too worried about this because the CD2 is simply oil with detergent, and all this is going into 7.5 quarts of Mobile 1 10-w30. I let it idle for 30 min, then drove GENTLY for 20 mile......no change. I drained the oil, changed filter, added 6.5 quarts of Mobile 1 and 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, as suggested earlier. It has helped a lot, somewhat quieter and less frequent but still there. But it has only been about 50 miles. I don't know how long I will leave the MMO in, no one (including the bottle) suggested you had to dump it back out after a short while and it has been in use for eons in America.

I may have a semi-bad lifter. This engine is really clean even at 110K. the previous owner was meticulous about maintenance.....19 pages of records from the dealer....always Moble 1 at 3000k..... the sea foam caused the oil to darken a little but not much. After 80 miles with MMO, it is still very very clean on white paper napkin. It runs great and the dealer tech said that even if it collapses "you will not know the difference"...I guess that is due to having 4 valves per cylinder.

It is not very loud at all in the inside. With the AC blowing you can''t hear it, and it comes and goes. Right now it ticks i would guess only 30% of the time, but for me that is 29% too much.....:thepan:

The dealer says to ignore it, but it bugs the hell out of me......

How big a deal is it to replace lifers on this engine (99 N*)?? (should it come to that....)

clarkz71
07-17-06, 06:00 PM
Well, you need to drop the front of the sub frame down a bit to get the rear cam cover off. Then you'll need a special tool to keep the secondary chain tensioner in, because you don't want to pull the front cover:tisk: . Then you zip tie the cam chain to the sprockets. Mark them as well, and remove the sprocket bolts. Last, unbolt the cam caps evenly, remove the cams and then the lifters. A magnet or valve grinding suction cup works to remove them.Remember, mark everything. If your going to do this kind of work I would get a Factory Service Manual. The Haynes or Chilton are not what you want for these cars.E-bay has them all the time.

Elmer Fudd
07-17-06, 10:32 PM
Thanks for all the info Clarkz71, but NO way am I enough of a mechanic to do something like this. I meant how big of a deal ($$$) at the Caddy garage:golden:

unruley247
07-18-06, 02:09 AM
:) You should have left the seafoam in at least 500 miles to allow it to clean engine.:crybaby: I was having a similar tapping that sounded like the lifter was slapping itself i even changed the oil pump thinking that i was getting oil to the top of the engine but after adding sf my engine stop tapping and now u can't hear her run

clarkz71
07-18-06, 06:13 AM
Thanks for all the info Clarkz71, but NO way am I enough of a mechanic to do something like this. I meant how big of a deal ($$$) at the Caddy garage:golden:

It's not going to be cheap, the lifters at the dealer are $57.78 each X 16 = $942.48, then add labor which will be 7 to 10 hrs........ So I would say $1500 to $2000. I would call around for estimates.
Now you can get those lifters from GM parts Direct for $480. If you know a good independent shop you could get away for around $1000. Good luck.

Elmer Fudd
07-18-06, 10:16 AM
:) You should have left the seafoam in at least 500 miles to allow it to clean engine.:crybaby: I was having a similar tapping that sounded like the lifter was slapping itself i even changed the oil pump thinking that i was getting oil to the top of the engine but after adding sf my engine stop tapping and now u can't hear her run

Ya...I just got paraniod, that stuff is supposed to be pretty strong. I'm going to leave the MMO (which I think is similar, ....oil, alcohol, and naptha) for a good while.

One thing you DON'T want on these engines is to create an oil seal leak....:crybaby:

Thanks for your input:)

unruley247
07-18-06, 12:27 PM
I respect that don't want another problem

chazglenn3
07-27-06, 03:41 AM
Yeah...I used Seafoam for a clicking lifter, and it cleaned all of the deposits out of my crankcase allowing the car to leak oil BIG TIME. But the lifter has gotten much quieter...

catzcnfly
08-18-06, 09:31 PM
Just a brief comment from a guy who researched a similar problem day and night for about 2 months before I finally cured a valve type knocking noise in my '90 Eldorado. Couldn't figure out why this mint Pearl White beauty with only 40,000 mi had that noise so early in life. Finally a GM Tech here in Toronto came up with an answer when he asked me if the car was stored for any length of time. I told him I had just bought it from an elderly couple that flew to Florida for 6 months every winter. So he guessed that the problem might be compressed lifter springs... replaced them... quiet as a caddy.

Elmer Fudd
08-18-06, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the input catz. I am certian that something like that is my problem.
1) this car has had oil changes almost every 3000 mi. since it was born. I have the dealer records.....mobile 1 too.
2) I have tried a couple of the cleaners with no success. When I drain the oil after running them......still clean.

Comnpressed spring, broken spring, solid debris in a oil port.....something like that. I am trying to find a Caddy dealer will to open the thing up and look for THE problem, rather that simply saying "Replace all lifters - 3000 - 4000 $ !!!":rant2:

Mattlanta
08-31-06, 05:14 PM
Funny cause I have the same problem too.

I have a 95 STS and it never used to make any engine noise. before the Cadillac extended warranty expired I started to measure oil consumption becuase I knew that was a complaint with the N* after mileage got higher and my warranty was only about 3k miles from expiration.

Sure enough it was consuming oil at what is typically considered an excessive rate. There was no noises or problems, the motor ran amazing, but would consume some oil.

After the repair (repalced rings), the motor would make the noise you are all describing. Sounds like a lifter, the average person would say it sounds like a diesel or tractor. Not what you want out of your Caddy right?!!??!

It really got to me too. I was going crazy and refused to keep it. The dealer told me to take it because it was probably just from beign rebuilt and should sort itself out. I drove it going crazy for a few weeks and if it didn't change by then it was never going to. I tried to return it and kept getting the run around. Basically they were telling me the same thing that you guys were told...it's not a problem and just something little. Kepp driving it and it will not affect durability. Well, I did, but I also stopped going to that dealer (the largest one in Toronto, where I used to live (Roy Foss Cadillac/Hummer, etc.).

The noise never stopped, but nothing ever broke or performed poorly either. So, be prepared to deal with the noise, but be reassured it will probably not get worse and probably never cause a failure. Mine still pulls hard and runs like a champ, just sounds like a tractor when it's idling.

Hearing that you have had some luck with these oil additives, I just might try one. I have also used Mobil 1 every 3k since I owned mine (which was at about 20k miles). The lady that had the car before me did the same, but didn't use synthetic (had the dealer use the generic GM stuff).

Great forum, and thanks for all the info. It's nice to know I'm not the only one out there experiencing this stuff!

Matt.

Elmer Fudd
08-31-06, 09:43 PM
Thanks Matt....and yes, it is still "ticking along", I have had it 3000 miles, and according to the mait. records it started about 4000 miles before I bought it.

Stll comes and goes.....some days it is completly gone :thumbsup: then the next morning...TICK TICK TICK.....:rant2: I'm an engineer and I have tried to figure what cionditons are contributary...you know, temperature, how long it sat cold, miles since cold start, etc......just doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it. And like you, otherwise, it performs like a new engine.......:thumbsup:

Seems better with the hi milage oil and some Lucas. Think next I will try that Rotella 15W-40....without the Lucas at first, then add the Lucas if it is worse.

Only sure cure.....when it ticks, I turn the radio on.......LOL........

Keep in touch.....Elmer

chazglenn3
09-01-06, 01:52 AM
Same plan here...except for the Lucas. I just plan to change the oil and filter and fill the crankcase with Rotella T 15W40.

Elmer Fudd
09-01-06, 05:32 PM
Same plan here...except for the Lucas. I just plan to change the oil and filter and fill the crankcase with Rotella T 15W40.


Let us know if you try it first........:grouphug: