: 2007 Sts=too Much Too Little Too Late



PAULSTSMAN1
06-23-06, 11:56 PM
Well it seems like we have to dust off that old favorite by Johnny Mathis and Denise Williams. In some recently attained photos the raps are off the 2007 Cadillac STS, and I might add I am somewhat disappointed. With all the post this last year about the approval rating on the STS Cadillac's response is send out a revised niminalist luxury car! The BLS has been a marketing disaster in Europe, and the STS will take a bath over here!:want:

I am attaching some photos "gleaned" from another website which shows some interior enhancements, the new grill and tailights. I can't believe GM is producing this little to compete against an all new LS460, and M6. Don't get me wrong the STS is an improvement over the current basic fare STS 2006, but compared to the stellar upcoming market competition, what are the stylists and marketing types drinking in their coffee? Valium or Crack? It seems that manufacturing is being independantly done without market analysis, have you see the interior pictures of the LS460?

The Photos are the 2007 STS rear, the interior (prototype), 2007 LS460 neutral leather, 2 pics of the charcoal leather without and with the leg rests extended. I'll sooth my disappointment with the Cadillac interior with a Vodka and Cranberry cocktail. I did not show the exterior of the LS460 because it wouldn't be fair it's all new.

PAULSTSMAN1
06-24-06, 12:21 AM
Here are some more photos of the 2007 CADILLAC STS PROTOTYPE. I am just beginning to use the photo resizer so pardon the lame attempt.

Lord Cadillac
06-29-06, 08:39 AM
Lexus aims for the people who want Mercedes S-Class type quiet and comfort inside.. Cadillac aims for people who want BMW M5 type performance.. They're both too different to compare anymore.. The Cadillac of the 70s would compete much better with Lexus if if they existed back then. Cadillac has gone after a completely different market.. Luckily, the DTS and Escalade are very comfortable vehicles.. Every other Cadillac is too small, cold and uncomfortable (as far as I'm concerned).

Baldtop
06-29-06, 09:47 AM
The prototype pictures on the internet are of an export model. If you look at the pictures on the GM 2007 Order Guide, you see that there are no visible changes on the 2007 STS. The grill and taillights are exactly the same as 2006. Packaging and colors are different, and the 8 cylinder gets a new 6 speed tranny. Also, the KBB webste has 2007 prices and they are up $800-1,000 depending on options. I'm going to try to find a 2006 with the rebates attached. Same car except for the VIN stampings.

justgreat
06-29-06, 02:36 PM
i'll throw my .02 cents in...looks are totally subjective. some will like it and some won't...it's really that simple. now, when it comes to interior design...that's another story. that's where you spend your time; behind the wheel and THAT is definitely important. the minimal approach of less buttons and knobs is a god-send. it's what really sets the caddy apart from the maddening herd. technology must be integrated into a seamless operation; make it as intuitive as possible with the least amount of distraction from the road: that's the way i like it.

as far as keeping up with the pack, it's what's under the skin that counts; let's see 6 and 7 speed transmissions..let's see the direct injection version of the 6 and the 8, with the 6 making almost 300 hp. now, that's important. it will take time for caddy to develop a following...it's been years since they had a luxury sedan that would even be considered by the euro crowd. having said that, i give gm credit...they went out on a limb styling wise and hit a homerun in my book.

jackg
06 sts6
the only real criticuism i have is the packaging of the options, it might drive up the price somewhat, but let us choose what we want on our caddys....like i said; my 02 cents

megeebee
06-29-06, 02:43 PM
REPOST





http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-forum-2005-beyond/78568-more-2008-sts-spy-shots.html

ARTSBEST
06-30-06, 08:33 AM
NOT selling in 06' what do they think is going to sell the SAME model in 07'?

megeebee
06-30-06, 07:07 PM
NOT selling in 06' what do they think is going to sell the SAME model in 07'?


Apparently so. To add to this, there are a few left over 2005 models around the country someplace. I read somewhere that Mr. Lutz admitted that the current STS was one of his "mistakes". I agree. He tried to apply is preference for plain, smooth, and restrained designs over what was probably something more akin to the CTS. He hated the CTS when he first came to GM but it was too late to change or stop anything. He delayed the STS program 6 months to effect his changes (the current model was supposed to be the '04, but the delay made it an '05.) Now, it's a car that few want. It's just too compromised.

justgreat
06-30-06, 09:48 PM
i wouldn't put much stock in lutz's ability to "read the market"....his delay of the sts compromised the headroom...he chose form over funtion...not a smart move. having said that, to my eyes, the return of the fender look with the stacked headlights and the vertical tail lights with the kamm rear end treatment is simply beautiful. it's doesn't look anything like german hardware and that's a good thing, in my book.

it's not the looks that are dropping the sales numbers it's the pricing and the option groups. gm needs to take a page from audi and bite the bullet for a few years on their price structure for the sts. they need to build a base, just like audi did and then start to jack up the price. the competition is too fierce to support the prices they are asking for the content of the cars.

but as far as the looks go, the m infinit or the 5 series? the caddy has them hands down in the looks department...if there's any criticism, from me anyway, it's what's underneath.....

jackg
06 sts6

cmicasa
06-30-06, 10:21 PM
NOT selling in 06' what do they think is going to sell the SAME model in 07'?


Quick point to make on this tho...The STS is selling decently when compared to the M, GS, and RL...

As of may STS sales have been 9,884 vs the Infiniti M @ 11,116, the GS @ 9,578 (V6) and 1,724 (V8)= 11,302 , the RL @4,680 and the A6 @ 7,636.

I mean seriously the whole Luxo market in this class has been hit with every one of these cars named above suffering from a drop in sales under last year...
(Could it be them all requiring PREMIUM gas may have something to do with it)

Not making excuses, just saying that I don't understand why the STS is supposed to be a failure, yet the Audi A6 and RL are considered HITS...(well maybe not the RL)..

Also doesn't the STS normally sell more V8s as well as cost slightly more than most of it's competition...

malatu
06-30-06, 11:00 PM
I've owned my current vehicle for 13 years. I've sat in the back seat only once (I'm not sure why I did this!). I'm more concerned with what I experience when I'm behind the wheel than whatthe folks sitting behind me are experiencing. Who cares a rear seat passenger may put their legs up!

PAULSTSMAN1
07-02-06, 10:36 AM
Well is too bad Bob Lutz regrets the late launch of the STS. The fact that sales are less than stellar, shouldn't have been that much of a surprise. Move on to 2006, what has he ordered done about it? I refuse to believe that the Vice Chairman of GM can't get something done about it!

Market share lost is business diverted away from future purchases. In a previous post I mentioned the lack of quality Mercedes high end models have been suffering the last 6 or so years. A close friend who owned a CLK, last week bought a Toyota Solara Convertible, he said that he'd never look at another Mercedes ever! He told me he understands why Lexus is getting so many S-Class trade in's, it's a quality issue!

Mercedes has the liquidity to work on changing it's image, it's World Wide sales are still ok. Cadillac has the CTS, DTS, and Escalade bringing in the money, the SRX will get a new interior and may be revived. The STS gets a new grill, and a warmed over interior? It should have been continued as a 2006 Model, and then replaced in January with a noteable interior and exterior redo, or a fantasic performance enchancement, perhaps with a 8 speed automatic, direct injection, E85, and perhaps a V12 option. This would have accomplished 2 goals, it would give the Market Place a glimpse of where Cadillac is headed, and a taste of American power and technology, in other words...Road Appeal.

megeebee
07-02-06, 12:34 PM
Well is too bad Bob Lutz regrets the late launch of the STS. The fact that sales are less than stellar, shouldn't have been that much of a surprise. Move on to 2006, what has he ordered done about it? I refuse to believe that the Vice Chairman of GM can't get something done about it!

Mr Lutz was not regretting the delay, but the design changes he ordered themselves that caused the delay. So, I would think that the "less than stellar" sales are a VERY big suprise to him. He hated all the Art & Science Cadillacs when he first got to GM. He even ordered changes to the XLR, but there was only time to change the bumper facias. This is my problem with Mr.Lutz. He's been a boon for GM and a tireless advocate for design, yes. So I don't want to be seen as bashing. BUT, his job should be to free-up the designers, not dictate design.

I was under the impression that a facelift was due for '08, but unless there are some sheetmetal changes and not just grilles, lights, and facias I don't see the situation improving much.

And as for the photos of this thread, maybe they're just testing and adjusting the new 6 speed transmission? The interior shots show wires and such coming out near the shifter.

PAULSTSMAN1
07-02-06, 01:05 PM
I don't want to seem as if I am bashing Mr Lutz, either. I just remember reading " To whom much is given, much is expected." I also know by extrapolation of what has already been lost (that auto experts have quoted)about how long before the loss of market share will make any improvement a "moot point."

I am pushing for prompt action, only.

megeebee
07-02-06, 06:17 PM
I don't want to seem as if I am bashing Mr Lutz, either. I just remember reading " To whom much is given, much is expected." I also know by extrapolation of what has already been lost (that auto experts have quoted)about how long before the loss of market share will make any improvement a "moot point."

I am pushing for prompt action, only.

I agree on all points.

Vrocks
07-03-06, 11:56 AM
I'm not simply trying to bash Bob Lutz but I have a few opinions on some of GM's recent vehicles.

- I heard the HHR was selling well, is that true? If it was I'd guess the niche market will be filled soon because that truck, car, van, ???, is one ugly waste of resources. How much money did it cost to get that thing to the dealers? To be fair, the Toyota Prius is hideous and the new small SUV they came out with looks like it's made by Tyco and runs on rechargables (oh.. it probably does, lol)... I guess some people will buy anything.

- SSR, no comment.

- H3

- Please kill Saab... and Saturn (give buick the skye)

I'm sure I missed a few but those really stick out.

I do think that all of the new Cadillac's are excellent vehicles, especially the V series. Chevrolet has excellent cars and trucks (GMC) and the truck platform is getting another upgrade in the near future.

It's just strange when you see certain products rolling into production. Instead of spending billions on impractical akward niche markets why don't they spend more on R&D and put "cool" technologies into their vehicles? Like Lexus using LED's for the headlights or a NAV system that can be updated in real time using XM? I'm not talking about putting traffic blob information over the nav image, I'd like to see new roads added, old ones removed and maybe even pot hole warnings. If a severe pot hole or road ubstruction is reported the nav system could tell you "road obstruction in 1000ft", that would be cool and useful.

corvette00
07-04-06, 04:27 PM
Mr. Lutz should retire along with his GTO

Jesda
07-05-06, 06:29 AM
Lexus targets the soulless corporate douchebag who cant tell an engine from a chicken.