: N* Supercharger and Turbo Systems!?!



HITMONEY
05-24-06, 11:50 AM
Anyone have any information on these people?

http://www.mechtech-ms.com/northstarSupercharger.php


I've sent an email but have not heard back as of yet. I wanted to know if their system would work on OBDII cars.

This would make for one helluva bad ass DTS! :sneaky:

danbuc
05-24-06, 12:54 PM
Those setups are real nice, if there going into a sandrail or hotrod. They would never work with the stock computer, you would have to modify it via a piggy back system like Mark99STS did. Such a task would cost thousands of dollars and in the long run probably not work. Also, it would never fit under the stock hood either, and would require modifcations in order to fit. CHRFab does the exact same thing as these people and none of there stuff will work in a street car. These kits are designed to work with an engine using an stand alone computer that's NOT in a stock vehicle.

annie
05-24-06, 06:32 PM
Alot of high end rice uses stand alone systems in their souped up 4 and 6 cilinders. As far as hood clearence goes you can always use a centrifical supercharger or just pipe a turbo to wereit will fit. I beleave since the N*'s bottom end can handle up to 600 bhp, as I have heard in place on this forum,
it deserves to be modded. The N* can not be any more expensive to mod than a turbo supra or a G35 coupe. If all these ricers that we make fun of can spend all this money to make their front drive 4 banggers pump out 300-400 bhp,imagine if us caddy fans would drop that kind of cash to make the sts, dts , and eldo faster.

danbuc
05-24-06, 10:31 PM
The problem is most of those Honda's only need a few thousand dollars to turbocharge, since the computers are all easily modified and part readily available. There a big difference when trying to modify a car with NO aftermarket. Everything is custom, which means that few thousand dollars becomes tens of thousands of dollars. For the money it would cost to add a turbo or supercharger to one of these cars, you could just go out and buy a faster, more easliy modified car instead and have both.

auroradude
05-25-06, 12:03 AM
I would buy a Jag XJR or supercharged mustang cobra before ever modifying one of these cars, end of story

acklac7
05-25-06, 12:18 AM
The problem is most of those Honda's only need a few thousand dollars to turbocharge, since the computers are all easily modified and part readily available. There a big difference when trying to modify a car with NO aftermarket. Everything is custom, which means that few thousand dollars becomes tens of thousands of dollars. For the money it would cost to add a turbo or supercharger to one of these cars, you could just go out and buy a faster, more easliy modified car instead and have both.

A variant of this quote should be a sticky labeld "So you want to modify your N*?"

In addition we also need a sticky that reads

"There is no easy way to modify a N* (air filters don't do jack)"

davesdeville
05-29-06, 04:18 AM
For the money it would cost to add a turbo or supercharger to one of these cars, you could just go out and buy a faster, more easliy modified car instead and have both.

None of that matters. If you hold to that theory, there's no reason you should ever modify anything except a fox Mustang.

I think a turbo northstar could be done for no more than $4k, assuming one has tuning knowlege and will do all the work themselves. If I didn't have my Lincoln I very well might try it myself.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-29-06, 02:09 PM
A turbo Northstar would be badass, but could you tune it for mostly low end power?

weister42
05-29-06, 03:16 PM
For low-end boost you can use a smaller turbo that spools up faster. The raason why no one really do anything to their N* is due to the almost unhackable engine PCM. Mark99STS on this forum have a turbo STS but he spent close to $12,000:eek: His ride is badass though...

Here's a link to his project...

http://www.markonemtg.com/marks99sts/id3.html

danbuc
05-29-06, 03:24 PM
None of that matters. If you hold to that theory, there's no reason you should ever modify anything except a fox Mustang.

I think a turbo northstar could be done for no more than $4k, assuming one has tuning knowlege and will do all the work themselves. If I didn't have my Lincoln I very well might try it myself.

I'm sure someone could turbo charge the northstar for around $4K, but they would have to be damn good at what they do. The average owner (well, let's say 95%) don't have the knowledge or experience required to build a setup that would work, and work reliably for $4K. It's not the kind of thing that the average "shade tree mechanic" is capable of. Even mark didn't mess with the computer that much, he left that to someone who had experience with such things and could get it to work properly. That's what costs money. Actually building and assembling the physical structure itself is the easy part. It's finding someone who can get it to work with the engine and computer without blowing itself up that's the hard part. Your average Joe Shmoe isn't gonna have a clue how to properly adjust fuel flow depending on RPM, boost pressures,..ect. The likely scenario would be that "Joe" set's it all up, tunes it how he think it should be tuen, blows it up, and then spend another $10k on a replacement engine and a proper job. It happens all the time. People build a supercharger, or turbocharger system for their car and tune it according to how they think it should be done, and then they end up destroying the engine, and spending more money than they would have if they had just had a proffessional do it.

This bring up the other issue. Even if you decide to build a system yourself and have it tuned by a proffesional, finding someone who will go anywhere near a Northstar with a Turbocharger on it will be hard. Mark got lucky knowing someone who was willing to work with him. Thye hiring the services of someone good enough to know what they are doing when it comes to this engine is not cheap. If one were lucky enough to get their hands on the programming Mark is using on his piggy back system, it would make things a hell of alot easier. Starting form scratch costs alot...Just ask Mark. He spent what, $15k getting that whole setup to work properly?

In the end, what I said still hold's true. For the amount of money it would cost to build a reliable supercharger/turbocharger setup for the Northstar (in a stock vehicle), you could just buy another, faster car. It's not like a Civic, where you could buy a $4k dollar torbo kit that comes with all the added bits, like computer tuning, larger injectors,..ect to get it to work, and can be easily installed in a day. With this engine, EVERYTHING has to bo custom build and engineered from scratch. There are no parts designed to work with this engine. Anything you use must be adapted for use on this engine. That's what makes it so damn expensive.

91TexasSeville
05-29-06, 03:49 PM
I'm sure someone could turbo charge the northstar for around $4K, but they would have to be damn good at what they do. The average owner (well, let's say 95%) don't have the knowledge or experience required to build a setup that would work, and work reliably for $4K. It's not the kind of thing that the average "shade tree mechanic" is capable of. Even mark didn't mess with the computer that much, he left that to someone who had experience with such things and could get it to work properly. That's what costs money. Actually building and assembling the physical structure itself is the easy part. It's finding someone who can get it to work with the engine and computer without blowing itself up that's the hard part. Your average Joe Shmoe isn't gonna have a clue how to properly adjust fuel flow depending on RPM, boost pressures,..ect. The likely scenario would be that "Joe" set's it all up, tunes it how he think it should be tuen, blows it up, and then spend another $10k on a replacement engine and a proper job. It happens all the time. People build a supercharger, or turbocharger system for their car and tune it according to how they think it should be done, and then they end up destroying the engine, and spending more money than they would have if they had just had a proffessional do it.

This bring up the other issue. Even if you decide to build a system yourself and have it tuned by a proffesional, finding someone who will go anywhere near a Northstar with a Turbocharger on it will be hard. Mark got lucky knowing someone who was willing to work with him. Thye hiring the services of someone good enough to know what they are doing when it comes to this engine is not cheap. If one were lucky enough to get their hands on the programming Mark is using on his piggy back system, it would make things a hell of alot easier. Starting form scratch costs alot...Just ask Mark. He spent what, $15k getting that whole setup to work properly?

In the end, what I said still hold's true. For the amount of money it would cost to build a reliable supercharger/turbocharger setup for the Northstar (in a stock vehicle), you could just buy another, faster car. It's not like a Civic, where you could buy a $4k dollar torbo kit that comes with all the added bits, like computer tuning, larger injectors,..ect to get it to work, and can be easily installed in a day. With this engine, EVERYTHING has to bo custom build and engineered from scratch. There are no parts designed to work with this engine. Anything you use must be adapted for use on this engine. That's what makes it so damn expensive.

I really have to agree Danbuc....
I have spent tens of thousands over the years on racing and performance parts, mostly for Fords. The bottom line is, no aftermarket support makes for a costly conversion. The Clevor was a good example because Cleveland engines had no real aftermarket while the Windsors did in the late 70's and early 80's. Yes, times have changed and there is now support for those old Cleveland engines. The newer Ford PCM's can be chipped or piggy-backed easily, while the Cadillac PCM is still virgin territory. Cadillac does build a performance car for those who want one bad enough to pay in excess of 100K for one.

davesdeville
05-30-06, 04:54 AM
The bottom line IMO is this. Turbo/supercharging a northstar is no different from turbo/supercharging a multitude of other engines.

There's no need for a huge aftermarket since the stock parts will work fine as long as you don't go overboard on the boost. Sure if you want to make big naturally aspirated power, you'll need aftermarket hardware to do it. But simply adding forced induction does not.

Using a piggyback computer/PFC on this motor is no different from using one on another motor. Tuning is no different either, if you know how to work with whatever PFC you go with and a wideband, you can tune a northstar. I'm sure whoever tuned Mark's northstar didn't have any experiance with tuning a northstar, and look how it came out.

The only thing that really makes it more difficult than a lot of other cars is that space is limited due to it being a FWD V8. Other than that complication... It's not some super complex nuclear reactor under our hoods, it's an engine.

Dooman
05-30-06, 08:21 AM
What you do need to remember is there is already a supercharged computer in the STS-V. That might be a place to start.

MARK99STS
05-30-06, 09:07 AM
For the amount of money it would cost to build a reliable supercharger/turbocharger setup for the Northstar (in a stock vehicle), you could just buy another, faster car.



Yes you could do that, but you would have just another fast car like everybody else. I wanted something unique and something that had not been done before. It's not the money either. Most people don't want to do something like this to a "CADILLAC" but would easily spend $10,000+ on their Corvette or Cobra or other "High Performance" car but wouldn't think about putting that kind of money in their luxury car.

danbuc
05-30-06, 09:22 AM
The bottom line IMO is this. Turbo/supercharging a northstar is no different from turbo/supercharging a multitude of other engines.

There's no need for a huge aftermarket since the stock parts will work fine as long as you don't go overboard on the boost. Sure if you want to make big naturally aspirated power, you'll need aftermarket hardware to do it. But simply adding forced induction does not.

Using a piggyback computer/PFC on this motor is no different from using one on another motor. Tuning is no different either, if you know how to work with whatever PFC you go with and a wideband, you can tune a northstar. I'm sure whoever tuned Mark's northstar didn't have any experiance with tuning a northstar, and look how it came out.

The only thing that really makes it more difficult than a lot of other cars is that space is limited due to it being a FWD V8. Other than that complication... It's not some super complex nuclear reactor under our hoods, it's an engine.


If this is true, why do we only know one person who has sucessfully pulled it off. If it was as easy as supercharging a Corvette, I have to believe more people would have done it by now.

Mark, I would much rather supercharge my STS that any other "regular vehicle" like a Camaro, COrvette, T/A,...ect. The reason I said what I did, is that for most poeple, it would be cost prohibitive to do so, and therefor a different more easily modified car would be a more viable solution.

What do you think Mark, could all the work you went through to turbocharge your car be done for around $4k? If anyone would know how hard this is to do, it would be you.

Tommy Deville
05-30-06, 09:03 PM
I would be happy to get a cool turbo "Knigh rider" sound from my caddy, any ideas how to do that? the engine is too quiet

MARK99STS
06-01-06, 09:46 AM
Mark, I would much rather supercharge my STS that any other "regular vehicle" like a Camaro, COrvette, T/A,...ect. The reason I said what I did, is that for most poeple, it would be cost prohibitive to do so, and therefor a different more easily modified car would be a more viable solution.

What do you think Mark, could all the work you went through to turbocharge your car be done for around $4k? If anyone would know how hard this is to do, it would be you.

Yeah, I did spend a lot of money that the average person would not spend.

Strictly from a parts standpoint, you could probably do it for about $4,000-$5,000. BUT, unless you are a great mechanic with welding skills and knowledge of turbo or supercharger tunning, you would be screwed. Unfortunately one other factor that would have to be considered is that the heads would have to be timeserted if they had not already been done as mine had, otherwise your asking for trouble. So we are talking about pulling the engine and tranny. Like most things, it's not the parts cost, but the labor and knowledge.


FYI I am currently working on making a manual shift controller for the tranny with the guy who did the traction control workaround. I'll keep you posted.

danbuc
06-01-06, 05:23 PM
Sounds pretty good to me. Are you gonna run a set of padles behind the wheel or something to control the shift solenoids individually? That might look pretty cool.

auroradude
06-01-06, 10:46 PM
I like Mark's engine and everything, but if your gonna have that kind of power IMHO, you need (1) Tremec manual transmission. 2, a car that is designed for that kind of power (suspension, sway bars etc), and REAR WHEEL DRIVE. In the end, its still a front wheel drive V8. You cant have any fun fishtailing around corners, doing donuts etc. Thats what matters to me, but not to Mark obviously. That car is a hell of a sleeper and if he has fun with it on the highway there's goign to be a LOT of people out there that get pOOned.

What I would be pissed about though is that transmission. With a 400hp car, I like to hold the accelerator pinned from a stop all the way to 150mph every now and then. With that car, he has to back off the gas to what, 20% throttle so it can shift without fragging the clutch packs and bands. Thats no fun. Then he has to spend another $5000+ for a bulletproof trans. It's almost $20k in the end. I'm like Dave, I would simply go out and buy an 03 cobra and kenne bell the MF.

denscor
06-01-06, 11:39 PM
If this is true, why do we only know one person who has sucessfully pulled it off. If it was as easy as supercharging a Corvette, I have to believe more people would have done it by now.

Mark, I would much rather supercharge my STS that any other "regular vehicle" like a Camaro, COrvette, T/A,...ect. The reason I said what I did, is that for most poeple, it would be cost prohibitive to do so, and therefor a different more easily modified car would be a more viable solution.

What do you think Mark, could all the work you went through to turbocharge your car be done for around $4k? If anyone would know how hard this is to do, it would be you.

I really would not consider a Corvette as a regular vehicle,I have a pro-charged Corvette and by no means was it cheap to built or maintain. I have around 10 grand in my system .so 4000 is a cheap price to pay. So things people overlook, Computer system(Programming). rear-end, clutch or transmission,Intake,exhaust headers ect,cooling system (they tend to overheat with the extra power,head studs to take the extra boost,metal head gaskets for the boost, But I love my Vette with all the power, if I had to do it again, I would in a heartbeat!!! :thumbsup:

MARK99STS
06-02-06, 10:10 AM
Sounds pretty good to me. Are you gonna run a set of padles behind the wheel or something to control the shift solenoids individually? That might look pretty cool.

Actually we are planning to use the fan or temp button on the steering wheel. If we can pull that off, that would really be trick.

danbuc
06-02-06, 02:41 PM
Damn straight it would be.

GreenMachine
06-02-06, 06:10 PM
my dream is to find an old beat-up cadillac from the 30's or 40's and chop it into a hot-rod/street-rod and have it powered by a Northstar. Big dream that once I'm threw college I might start on.

AlBundy
06-02-06, 07:35 PM
my dream is to find an old beat-up cadillac from the 30's or 40's and chop it into a hot-rod/street-rod and have it powered by a Northstar. Big dream that once I'm threw college I might start on.


I have a buddy down the street who has been working on a 40 or 50s chevy truck and he's putting a Trans Am engine in it. Maybe you two might drag each other in the future. :thumbsup:

94CaddyConcours
06-02-06, 09:37 PM
And my dream is to have a aRWD N* in my Concours. And everything else come second.