: Oil change



fleetwoodman12
05-23-06, 06:50 PM
About to do my first oil change anyone suggest any oils or oilfilters :thumbsup:

johndfw
05-23-06, 09:31 PM
Hey
I like Wix filters, and Valvoline oil.

N0DIH
05-23-06, 09:42 PM
Loaded question on here! :)

Honestly, 15W40 oil that meets CI-4 Specification is best in my book. I have only found 1 10W30 CI-4 oil (Amsoil 30W, and it meets the 10W30 spec). The added ZDDP antiwear additives is cruicial on parts that are in higher pressure contact areas such as lifters/cams, and distributor gears (nearly ever single car in the world with a underhead cam has it).

AC filters only. GM spec'd it, that is good enough for me. Having unknown spec'd filters from companies that make mass market filters is suspect at best. GM maintains the proper filtration level and flow capacity of the filter. AC Delco manufactures the filter to that specification.

So, Amsoil (10W)30 weight oil, Rotella T 5W40 synthetics if you feel you need it (don't worry, you don't), or Rotella T/Delo 400 /Delvac 1300 15W40 are you absolute best choices.

AVOID oils that meet SM specification. Get SL or older, do not use SM. (my not always so humble opinion!)

Johnny Bravo
05-23-06, 09:56 PM
Actually, the SM grade oils are low on ZDDP additives as well, the SL grade even more so. Anyway, the point may be moot because most oils on the shelves these days are SM/SL grade, unless you find some old stock.
However, your engine should have a roller cam so it's not crucial as with a flat tappet engine.

I'd still use the diesel oil as mentioned. Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo are good, and reasonably priced. Use 15w-40 summer, 10w-30 in the winter, (if you can find it).

Night Wolf
05-23-06, 11:22 PM
AC Delco oil filters.

I personally like Mobil oil, be it their dino, synthetic or Delvac....

N0DIH
05-23-06, 11:23 PM
Exactly, which is why I said avoid SM oils. The SL has nearly 2x ZDDP than SM spec oils.

I honestly can't see how a SM oil can be said to be able to meet SL spec, I don't think it is possible. SL required having a specified amount of ZDDP, which SM oils do NOT have.

Agreed, rollers are supposedly less of an issue, but honestly, there is just as much force on camshaft, even if it has a wheel on it vs a flat tappet. It is still gonna wear at a faster rate than with CI-4 or SL oils.

Racing oils are also typically good at having ZDDP in good levels, but they aren't particularly good at regular street driving protection dealing with higher amounts of acids and other contaminants.

So for me, as long as I can get it, CI-4 only. When CI-5 comes out, I'm stocking up on 5 gallon buckets of CI-4. Amsoil will sell you a 55 gal drum, as I am sure some other larger oil companies will do if you look hard enough.

Grab a copy of the latest Car Craft (or is it Hot Rod) they have a good article on oils and ZDDP. And also read up on many threads on this website on oils. I would recommend a search looking for "LOL synthetic ZDDP" lol lol....


Actually, the SM grade oils are low on ZDDP additives as well, the SL grade even more so. Anyway, the point may be moot because most oils on the shelves these days are SM/SL grade, unless you find some old stock.
However, your engine should have a roller cam so it's not crucial as with a flat tappet engine.

I'd still use the diesel oil as mentioned. Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo are good, and reasonably priced. Use 15w-40 summer, 10w-30 in the winter, (if you can find it).

Night Wolf
05-23-06, 11:28 PM
heh, funny ya'll mention that...

for the last 2 days my job at work was the oil... lot more involved then you'd think.. but, anyway, I like it alot... I found some really old stuff on the shelf (this building is 30+ years old) I realized we carry Shell Aeroshell..... aviation oil (thats cool) also... Shell 30ND.... thats stright weight, and ND = non detergient.. I was reading the quart, it said its made with minimal amount of protection and to not use it in cars made after 1963... kinda weird, I was surprised, it was the first I ever saw of it.

N0DIH
05-23-06, 11:46 PM
I remember that, always thought that would be good in my car, glad I never ran it! It is a low ash oil. Amsoil used to sell it, but the liability insurance is pricey and the sales weren't worth it.

Johnny Bravo
05-23-06, 11:59 PM
Exactly, which is why I said avoid SM oils. The SL has nearly 2x ZDDP than SM spec oils.
...
Just a typing error on my part. Naturally, SM being the latest grade would have lower levels of ZDDP.
Also, the SM grade would be backward compatible to meet SL specs, but not vice versa, as has always been the case when newer grades are introduced. Unfortunately, newer is not necessarily better with regard to motor oil these days.

By the way, you may not have to stock up on the CI-4 diesel oil just yet. It's should be plentiful through 2007, and beyond, according to one article I read.

Night Wolf
05-24-06, 12:21 AM
I remember that, always thought that would be good in my car, glad I never ran it! It is a low ash oil. Amsoil used to sell it, but the liability insurance is pricey and the sales weren't worth it.

Whats the deal wih low ash oil?

The Aeroshell is ashless....

N0DIH
05-24-06, 07:33 AM
I think it is better at preventing ring sticking, but that is it. It should be a good thing, but, I honestly don't know enough about it to run it.


Whats the deal wih low ash oil?

The Aeroshell is ashless....

Rick186
06-10-06, 10:19 PM
I Guess this is the WORD FROM ON HIGH.

I took my new prize posession over to see our friends, (Our veterinarian who is married to the chief lubricants engineer for a world-wide corporation) and Jesse and I babbled a while as our spouses did likewise. In the meantime, Jesse was also putting a mountain bike together for his kid. A good thing that Jesse was employed in a bike shop when he went to engineering school. I have never seen so many odd bits of chain, sprockets and crap in my life!

This was immediately after I had purchased - in Jesse's earlier recommendation:

DELVAC 1300, 15W-40
for the Cadillac.

As y'all know from this thread, it has been recommended all the way thru by lotsa folks who have studied the LT-1. So, with Jesse's sledgehammer kiss upon that particular lube, I'm a convert.

The stuff is NOT A SYNTHETIC. Jesse says a petroleum base carries the additives better. However an extremely fine petroleum base lubricant can almost match a synthetic at high temps if the blend of additives is doing its job. And when the additives are important, such as the ones fighting condensation (cold starts, short runs, etc) and that kind of stuff, the petroleum based lubes simply can't be beat.

But don't knock the synthetics like Mobil 1, either. They can take a whale of a beating at high temps and protect your motor wonderfully. However their ability to carry the additives is limited in comparison to the "dino" oils.

I got the complete workings of ZDDP and its doings inside a motor and how it related to the earlier doings of molybdenum which was thought to be the be-all-and-end-all some years ago as far as plating out and soothing the innards of motors when it came to one piece of a motor rubbing against another.

The ZDDP is far more subtle as an Extreme Pressure goodie (Jesse whizzed thru this so fast he left my head spinning) but far, far better than the old liqui-moly of the past. And DELVAC, being a commercial grade oil, is not necessarily subject to the EPA's bureaucrats who will nip it for having too much ZDDP.

Thus, the stuff has to be in it to protect half-million dollar pieces of construction equipment which must be up and running to make money for the outfits building whatever, and/or under the hoods of those Kenworths or Peterbilts and Macks expected to run a Million miles between overhauls. Luberfiners notwithstanding.

So I figure the LT-1 under the hood of my Cadillac will benefit, greatly, from the DELVAC 1300, 15W-40. I may lose one to 3 miles per gallon . . .BUT ONLY MAYBE (!) yet in return gain 50k miles in longevity on the motor.

That's a damn good tradeoff in my book.

And at AutoZone the stuff is only $8.00, minus a penny, per gallon. That's dirt cheap as far as I'm concerned for the payback.

The other facet of this is using AC filters. Like was said on this thread; if GM starts out with these things on the cars, Jesse believes Keep it. Likewise with Mobil 1 in Porsches and Corvettes from the factory. It's not nice fool with Mother Nature nor those engineering nerds at the factory.

Johnny Bravo
06-10-06, 11:17 PM
So I figure the LT-1 under the hood of my Cadillac will benefit, greatly, from the DELVAC 1300, 15W-40. I may lose one to 3 miles per gallon . . .BUT ONLY MAYBE (!) yet in return gain 50k miles in longevity on the motor.
That's a damn good tradeoff in my book.
.
According to the Mobil oil web site they offer the Delvac in 10w-30, but I've not found it in any stores in my area.
Maybe I need to contact them to find a retailer.

Rick186
06-11-06, 05:52 AM
A most valid point for a younger Cadillac than mine. But I don't see why your "friendly," local Mobil station couldn't order the lighter weight for you.:confused:
My baby has 91k miles on the clock, so hot summer driving calls for the 15-40.

Also, as I noted (and cried in my beer :alchi: ) my DW has talked me into getting a PopUp RV and having the Caddy tow it to parts unknown. That will put still more stress on the LT-1.


BTW, for what is probably the best research on oil filters, see:

allpar.com

where a guy went thru lots of oil filters. He cut them apart, one by one and examined them for all sorts of items like sealing, internal valving, etc.

It's probably the best report you'll find ANYWHERE that is not biased and is not paid for by a company but was done by an individual who just wanted to see what a really good filter was made of.

N0DIH
06-12-06, 10:51 AM
I have done extensive testing on 5W40 vs 15W40 and show NO appreciable difference in mpg. Now I am working on doing 30 weight (not 10W30, not 5W30, just plain Rotella T 30 weight, if it isn't spec'd for diesels, I don't want it...) and hopefully in a few months will have some valid conclusions. No, you WON'T lose 3 mpg. MAYBE 0.25 mpg at worst. Do not worry at all. Likely no change.

I ran 15W40 year round this year with NO ill effects in Wisconsin cold starting with temps as low as -10F. No rattles, no death knocks, no valvetrain clatter. Runs like any other oil that I have ever run, just a little thicker cold, and that goes away very quickly.

Rick186
06-12-06, 09:19 PM
Tom, Thanks for the gas mileage clarification.

Jesse gave me the worst possible scenario and his was based - likely - on a mindset of a far smaller displacement engine than a Chevrolet 350 C. I. LT-1 with far more internal mass.

As for winters in WI, I well recall a few when Gini and Ii lived in Milwaukee (Shorewood) and the wind shifted from Lake Michigan (after it froze) and the thermometer outside our back door showed a nippy minus 22 degrees. Yet the Mercedes, parked outside in the driveway, started after three or so revs and I imagined all sorts of grinding of its not-yet-lubricated innards.:eek:

BTW - - Is the cruise control and throttle assembly cylinder thingy (I'm still waiting for my factory manual) actually a fly-by-wire setup?)

BluEyes
06-14-06, 11:29 AM
No, you shouldn't see an appreciable MPG difference between 5W-40 and 15W-40 because they both act as the same weight oil once the motor is warmed up. In exclusively short-trip driving in cooler weather you might see more of a difference where the 15W-40 is spending more time in its thicker stage.

I'm interested in hearing the results between 5W-40 and 30 weight oil, that's where you might see the difference.

I'd still never reccomend a 15W-40 or 20W-50 oil anytime but in the summer. GM didn't reccomend anything that thick during cool/cold weather either.

N0DIH
06-14-06, 11:49 AM
I didn't expect to see much, if any between them, but being I switched to 15W40 in January, there was potential to see it. My driving is start up cold, drive 30-35 mph for 1-2 miles tops, and go to 55-65, possible 75 depending on my trip, and keep those speeds up for around 1 hour, then slow to 30-50 for 10-20 min and stop and sit for 8-10 hours and then repeat in reverse.

So far, if there is any difference in 30 weight vs 15W40, it is small, nothing standing out yet. But I haven't actually analyzed the data yet either. Just off the top of my head looking at the numbers.

The 15W40 was fine in the winter. In a newer engine that it tighter tolerance, possible more of an issue, but mine just rolled 191K, so I am sure I have a bit more room in there to push oil through when cold.

I'll probably switch to Amsoil 5W30 Series 3000 by the winter, mainly for it is 30 weight oil that is CI-4 spec'd and is 5w when cold. I would like to hope it will help mileage....

Patrick7997
06-18-06, 12:29 PM
I can verify.... ZERO loss of mileage in a Northstar, switching from Mobil 1 10w30 to Delvac 15w40....

Also... ZERO luck finding Delvac 10w30, or Rotella 10w30.

Rick186
06-18-06, 03:43 PM
Patrick - - -

Pewaukee just ain't that far from "SW Wisconsin" where N10DH is.
(I was a road warrior living in the Milwaukee area <2000 block of E. Marion, Shorewood> for a while so I'm reasonably familiar with the territory)

So how does he come by DELVAC? :confused:
Surely there's an outlet somewhere. Exxon/Mobil?

If push comes to shove, I'd be glad to ship the stuff since it's $7.99 per gallon at the local AutoZone here in Hartford, CT. :)

Patrick7997
06-19-06, 06:26 PM
Rick-

No, it's not too far.

Delvac 15w40 is at my Wal-Mart, $8 a gallon.... Farm & Fleet also has a decent selection of Rotella.... no 10w30, but lots of 15w40...

Straight 30 weight, as he referred to, is also available....

I haven't found 10w30 Rotella or Delvac, is what I was saying. When I re-read NODIH's posts, I think he is also using 15w40, and as he states, it worked in the winter, which suprised me....

I personally (and others in other related threads) was looking for 10w30 Rotella or Delvac. According to their websites, such a thing exists, but I haven't found any yet.... And according to Chevelle, the 15w40 may be ideal anyway.

My previous post may not have been real clear, sorry about that. It doesn't matter that much for the Caddy, because I generally park it in winter, but I was thinking of switching my truck, but since I have to drive it in winter, I was kind of thinking 10w30 would be better... but according to NODIH, maybe it wouldn't matter....

Rick186
06-21-06, 06:49 AM
Patrick,

I just happened to remember that my 1960 Mercedes 220Sb was using straight 30 weight oil (recommended by Mercedes-Benz at the time allegedly to give top cylinder and valve lubing from oil vapors) when we lived in Shorewood. It was backed into an outside, non-heated garage with no usable door (we rented the place). I used a company car so the Merc wasn't driven for about a month. Come Thanksgiving day, we were going to drive up to friends in Brown Deer for dinner with them and take Wolfie (all our cars have been named). The weather was beautiful but clear and zero degrees as it had been for the previous two weeks.

I got into the car, pulled out the choke until the green light came on, turned the key and the engine turned no more than 3 revs before it fired. And that's with points/plugs ignition and not the newer stuff. So I wouldn't worry about your newer vehicles if you keep them shipshape.

BluEyes
06-22-06, 08:15 AM
Starting quickly and good lubrication are not the same thing though. A properly tuned carb and ignition system will start quickly, but the oil still has to get pumped through the engine.

FWIW, my MB reccomends straight 30 weight as well, or "applicable multi-grade oil" so long as it is a diesel formulation (because it is a diesel). Oil has come a long way since 1971 though and it only gets 5W-40 oil now.
Since my Wal-Mart has stopped carrying Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W-40 (same as Delvac 5W-40) I use Shell Rotella now.

Just a note for anyone wanting to put straight 30 weight oil in their Caddy. Unless yours is truly a vintage car (like 1920's or something) make sure you are not picking up the non-detergent 30 weight.

Rick186
06-22-06, 08:36 AM
BluEyes -

Right on! When the Mercedes started so quickly, I could picture raw metal scraping and grinding before it had a chance to be lubricated as the engine wound up. :eek: