: Is it possible to go from 4.1 to Northstar?



BryanPaw
01-26-04, 09:44 PM
Hi everyone,

I have an 85 biarritz that i just love. But calling it gutless is still being generous. I would love to put the whole Northstar drivetrain into it but electronics and computer stuff still baffles me a bit. Is there a way to do it without losing things like mileage calculator, and climate control. Or do i have to make all the Northstar goodies fit into my interior. I'm also curious if anybody's ever turbocharged a Northstar. I'm sure that theres enough room but is it a good idea?

Thanks,
BryanPaw

ChiMick
01-27-04, 08:51 PM
With the understanding that I am not an expert in engine swapping, but had helped a buddy of mine that had his own shop do quite a few swaps in the pre-computer days....

I am thinking that you can do this swap if you want to spend the money to have an expert do it for you. I suspect it will not be cheap. :shocked2:

I'd suggest 2 alternatives:

1> How about having a local rod shop look at your '85 and see what can be done to improve the performance? It might be as simple as swapping out an engine control chip. Also visit http://www.gmperformancetuning.com for possible upgrades to this engine.

2> If that's a no go, is there a contemporary Northstar equipped vehicle that has most of the best features of your current vehicle? I would not doubt that you could get a second car for what this swap will likely cost.

In any case I hope you get the performance improvement that you are seeking.

CADDYBLACK99
01-28-04, 10:34 AM
Welcome!
I'm not an a DIY'er so I cannot offer any ideas. Good luck on your project. Post some pictures when yopu get a chance.

elwesso
01-28-04, 07:09 PM
Moved to the Northstar tech.... :)

As far as turbo applications, it can be done, and it has been done.... more popular forced induction is a supercharger.....

I personally wouldnt do that to a northstar unless it was beefed up a bit.... It doesnt have a problem breaking on its own, it doesnt need anything else to accelerate it... Pun intended!! :histeric:

BeelzeBob
01-28-04, 10:00 PM
Moved to the Northstar tech.... :)

I personally wouldnt do that to a northstar unless it was beefed up a bit.... It doesnt have a problem breaking on its own, it doesnt need anything else to accelerate it... Pun intended!! :histeric:

I'm sure the guys at www.chrfab.com (http://www.chrfab.com) would love to hear this from you...!!! They are pulling 700 and 800 HP out of turbo's and supercharged Northstars with basically stock bottom ends...and they live in sand cars which is not the easiest life for a high output engine. The only real problem they have with them is starving the bearings for oil....when they climb steep dunes at 7500 RPM. Between the 45 degree angle and the acceleration a dry sump is about the only way to get around this.

BeelzeBob
01-28-04, 10:06 PM
Hi everyone,

I have an 85 biarritz that i just love. But calling it gutless is still being generous. I would love to put the whole Northstar drivetrain into it but electronics and computer stuff still baffles me a bit. Is there a way to do it without losing things like mileage calculator, and climate control. Or do i have to make all the Northstar goodies fit into my interior. I'm also curious if anybody's ever turbocharged a Northstar. I'm sure that theres enough room but is it a good idea?

Thanks,
BryanPaw

Anything is possible....how much $$$$$$$ do you have.?? This swap would get very expensive before it would be over and you would never get all the electronics to work....they won't communicate totally with the Northstar serial data link.

Mechanically it is possible...I have seen it done...but by shops with access to the GM technical resources to make the electronics work. When finished you could have bought a brand new Northstar Cadillac cheaper.

I would recommend against it. It will be very very expensive. It will not just bolt in. You will have to have a lot of custom machining done. Even things like drive axles will have to be custom made. And....there is always the electronics.

Save the money towards a Cadillac built with a Northstar and you will be much further ahead. MUCH further ahead.


If you REALLY have to do it...find a 93 Allante and use the cradle and such. Since the Allante was built off the Eldo/Seville structure a lot of the cradle and engine compartment will be close....but you would have to cut up a 93 Allante to get it all. sinful. Keep the Allante and forget the Eldo.

CadillacJack76
01-30-04, 08:40 PM
Hey I just looked at that web page, and man, its outta this world, but there is some great info in there, and I build street rods, so I guess you can tell what I am going to use to power my next one, a northstar and a 700r4

Jack

DaveSmed
01-30-04, 10:36 PM
Next month Hot Rod magazine is supposed to have an article on the N* too. Might want to keep an eye out for it.

CadillacJack76
01-30-04, 11:44 PM
Jack

BeelzeBob
01-31-04, 10:14 PM
I definietly have to pick up that issue, I think its great that they are hot rodding those engines, heck if NASCAR and Indy cars use them than why not, right?


Jack

???????????????????????

What do you mean by this...??

NASCAR stock cars do not use anything resembling a Northstar engine... NASCAR engines are pushrod, cam inblock engines..resembling a small block chevy in the case of the GM teams.

The Aurora engine that Olds supplied to the IRL cars for a number of years (in the past) was an application specific racing engine... It "resembled" the Northstar/Aurora production engine in that it was aluminum, had 4 valves per cylinder, had overhead cams, etc...but...the general architecture similarities are about all. There are no stock parts on the racing engines and none of the racing engine parts would remotely bolt on to a production engine. The racing Indy engines are basically completely different, specific racing engines designed just for that purpose for the IRL.

CadillacJack76
01-31-04, 10:28 PM
First of all, you need to learn how to use "tact." If someone screws up a post and writes something that is wrong which I did :) (my bad) You don't make them look like a fool. There are other ways of letting someone know they are mistaken. I doubt that you know everything, and if the tables had been turned I am sure that I would have let you know in a way other than making you feel totally ridiculous. If you want to treat people like that and play " know it all" than please go find somewhere else to do it. I really enjoy this forum and think its a teriffic resource for Cadillac owners, and I enjoy chatting with the people involved. You know what I'm saying?

Jack

BeelzeBob
02-01-04, 01:11 AM
First of all, you need to learn how to use "tact." If someone screws up a post and writes something that is wrong which I did :) (my bad) You don't make them look like a fool. There are other ways of letting someone know they are mistaken. I doubt that you know everything, and if the tables had been turned I am sure that I would have let you know in a way other than making you feel totally ridiculous. If you want to treat people like that and play " know it all" than please go find somewhere else to do it. I really enjoy this forum and think its a teriffic resource for Cadillac owners, and I enjoy chatting with the people involved. You know what I'm saying?

Jack

Sorry that I offended you. I just tried to succinctly explain what the differences were between the different engines. I guess I could have done it more tactfully but really didn't think I was being rude. Sorry again that I offended you. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

elwesso
02-01-04, 11:10 AM
:grouphug:

Lets all get along.... :D :littlewes