: 91 Brougham 5.7 - what would you offer?



mharker
05-08-06, 10:52 AM
Now that I've been investigating a cheap Brougham winter-beater/toy, I've of course done some research and now I'm checking out more expensive broughams. Came across this. I've seen the car but haven't opened it or driven it. Just got off the phone with the owner.

CAR
-1991 Brougham 5.7L, champagne
-wire caps, leather, no sunroof
-odo burnt out long ago, but speedo still working. Owner says he got it 5 yrs ago when it was claimed to be 155km, and that he put 20km in 5 yrs. (I should get serial # and mooch a car fax from the board)

OTHER DETAILS
-body and paint looks very good and original. No dents or damage.
-undercoated but bit of rust showing through on lower front doors
-engine and trans believed to be original
-recently passed emissions, owner not safetying but says it should pass
-claims recent brakes incl rotors, exhaust, alternator, tires, back shocks, fuel pump
-AC perhaps not blowing cold, but converted to new refrigerant at cost of $700

NEEDS
-vinyl top is awful, even for a winter beater. Says quote was $700
-leather in front has wear spots, definitely not mint cond. Needs re-dye?
-back bumper rusted. Says wrecking yard replacement is $50. Sounds optimistic.
-Radio not working. Says it's a fuse. Again sounds optimistic.

ASKING
-$5000 (cdn) or best offer.
-claims he's had lots of people look and rejected a phone offer of $3500
-says he'll keep the car before selling it too cheap
-appears to be for sale on a roadside (unadvertised) for couple weeks now


What would you offer? I'm thinking it's worth $3K or so to me. But not sure he'd part with it for that price. Also I can probably pick up a nice condition 307 for under $1K so maybe I shouldn't get carried away.

Destroyer
05-08-06, 11:24 AM
Whoa!. I dont know what to tell you here. I bought mine for $1200 or$1300 (I forget)and it was in showroom new condition inside and out but had a smoking motor. Car prices are very different geographically, here in FL. its easy to get a real nice elderly original owned car for cheap. Offer what you feel comfortable paying. To me even $3k sounds like too much for a car that needs that much work.

92cadbro
05-08-06, 01:16 PM
DO NOT BUY THIS CAR!! too expensive.......5000??? I live in Montreal, and I paid 4500$ for my 92, everything working...u name it....with 150000kms....1 owner......amazing clean body and frame, interior leather....etc............

From what you are saying, I wouldnt pay more than 1300-1500$ canadian for it.....and thats only cuz It has a 350....Since the leather is ****ed, along with the vinyl and the back bumper......and the odometer.......and rust is showing........


Just my opinion since u asked

Take care

ShadowLvr400
05-08-06, 02:18 PM
3k is too much. Heck, even Kelly Blue Book retail is 3700-4400. If this one has that many issues, and a non working odo is shady IMO, walk away. They're easy as heck to find here in FL. Hell, hit auto-trader, and use 32839 (Orlando) as a zip, with a 75 mile radius, come across one that looks promising, and have a local member on here check it out for you. I'm in Melbourne 32940 these days, and I could look if you need it.

brougham_geezer
05-08-06, 03:47 PM
$5000.00 sounds like too much to me. It may be the 5.7L, but I wouldn't pay nearly that much. My '89 may have the 307, but it is in fabulous condition. Picked it up for only $2400.00 and that's Canadian. The car your talking about needs some work, and if it's only a beater, then you shouldn't spend that much money on it. Also, the KM's are not good. The car I bought only had 80,000 km's, and yours can't even verify 155,000. Keep your eye open for a better deal, and a seller with better character.

Keep in mind, this is only my opinion though! :)

brougham
05-08-06, 03:49 PM
It sounds like it's worth the $3,000 that you think it is. It's normal for the back bumper to rust on them and it's pretty normal for the odometer to not work too. You said the rest is in good condition. It's normal for a 15 year old car to have some rust and leather shows wear. If you want a car with leather seats that look new buy a new car.

mharker
05-08-06, 07:26 PM
Thanks guys. I tend to agree with you all. Too expensive starting price. If I can get it for 2K it's a consideration, but better to find a seller who has a clue.

Drove by it again today and it sure looks nice except for those few flaws. Bumper rust actually extends to one of the chrome parts on drivers side fin. Leather is not too terrible, mostly dirty on driver's side but no rips. But that top... ugh!

Posted a couple notes to see if someone can carfax it. (1G6DW5173MR723645 if anyone's got it). Might shed some light on the true mileage.

But like they say... you always find a better one!

Benzilla
05-08-06, 09:20 PM
That guy is f*cking crazy! I paid $6500 for my '90 in mint condition with a 350, moonroof, and CD player, so $5000 for that thing seems a little steep...

I would say $2500 MAX, if the top is bad, and the rockers have rust, then forget about it, on these cars, once you can see the rust, its too late, your talking cutting and welding in sheetmetal, or you will soon have no doors. not worth it. then again, if I see pics I might think differantly.

ShadowLvr400
05-09-06, 03:21 AM
$7500 for my 96 Fleetwood, base model, 84k miles, no issues when I bought it. Still none really that I havent brought on myself. 5k is too much for that 91 with problems.

mharker
05-09-06, 09:04 AM
Yeah I suppose with a closer look I can check the insides of the doors for rust, plus give her a run. Might be a waste of time anyway if they guy thinks it's worth big bucks.

Or I can just keep an eye out and see if it's still there in a few weeks.

N0DIH
05-09-06, 03:37 PM
I paid $3800 US for a 94 Fleetwood Brougham LT1 1 year ago in pretty good shape.

Talk him waaaaay down or find a much better one....

Benzilla
05-09-06, 04:50 PM
Yeah I suppose with a closer look I can check the insides of the doors for rust, plus give her a run. Might be a waste of time anyway if they guy thinks it's worth big bucks.

Or I can just keep an eye out and see if it's still there in a few weeks.
At that price, trust me it will be. If its not, then just accept that some other poor bastard bought it, and left you to find what you want :)

N0DIH
05-09-06, 05:05 PM
what is going price on the 307 powered Broughams?? I a friend of mine has a 86 or 87 Brougham that hasn't run in almost 2 years (his dad died, it just sits outside).

I am going to help get it going (can't let the old Cad be towed!).

It is in SE WI, in the 53115 area if anyone is interested. Good to restore or make a winter beater. Body is decent, but paint has had better days....

brougham
05-09-06, 05:38 PM
So far from what you've said the only problems it has is really just the roof the back bumper and the digital dash. That doesn't sound like much when you said the rest of the car has good paint and no dents or rust. Like I said before it's probably worth around the $3,000 you thought it is unless it's worse then you said. Unless you get really lucky anything that costs less then that in Ontario is going to be junk with super high mileage or that looks like crap and needs a lot of work. It's definately not worth the $5,000 he wants for it tho.

mharker
05-10-06, 12:59 AM
Yeah Brougham I tend to agree with you. Seems like with these cars you got pristine models at high prices, and super-high mileage cars that are worth almost nothing, but not much in between. I think this is an in-between car, suitable for a winter runner. As long as major mechanicals check out.

Only problem is price. And if seller gets no bites maybe mid-summer he'll take a lower, reasonable offer.

But talk (and threads) is cheap anyway. Gotta check out this thing and see what it's all about. Don't think I'll find time til after mother's day though.

BTW I searched autotrader.com like suggested on this thread. In Florida and states near Ontario nobody's givin' away 5.7s. Same deal... $5K for real nices ones and lots of cheap undesirable ones (repaints, high mileage, rebuilts, etc.). Not much in between.

mharker
05-10-06, 09:00 AM
Here's the carfax. (courtesy 94Roadmaster on Impala SS board) Looks like the 2nd owner thing checks out, but mileage all over the place. Fraudulent or just guesswork once the odo burnt out? What's with the miles vs. kms reporting? Thoughts?



1991 CADILLAC BROUGHAM
1G6DW5173MR723645
SEDAN 4 DR
5.7L V8 TBI OHV 16V / REAR WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Options
CARFAX Safety & Reliability Report
CARFAX Vehicle History - At A Glance
4 billion vehicle history events checked from public and private sources
Qualifies - CARFAX Buyback Guarantee
Last reported mileage - 111,225 miles


A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. Other information about this vehicle, including problems, may not have been reported to CARFAX. Use this report as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car.


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GUARANTEED - None of these major title problems were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). If you find that any of these title problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back.
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Not all accidents or other issues are reported to CARFAX
Frame Damage Check

No frame damage reported to CARFAX. No Issues Reported
Airbag Deployment Check

No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
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No indication of an odometer rollback.
No Issues Indicated
Accident Check

No accidents reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
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Check with an authorized Cadillac dealer for any open recalls.
No Recalls Reported

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No data reported to CARFAX.

No Data Reported

Tell us what you know about this vehicle

A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. CARFAX checked over 4 billion vehicle history events and found 8 record(s) for this 1991 CADILLAC BROUGHAM (1G6DW5173MR723645).

Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
06/26/1991 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gold
01/14/2002 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Central Ontario Registration issued or renewed
New owner reported
01/14/2004 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Central Ontario Registration issued or renewed
01/28/2004 108,739 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Keswick, ON Registration issued or renewed
Registered as
personal vehicle
Odometer reported as 175,000 kilometers
01/14/2005 110,604 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation Odometer reading reported for title
or registration
Odometer reported as 178,000 kilometers
01/15/2005 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Keswick, ON Registration issued or renewed
Registered as
personal vehicle
01/10/2006 111,225 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation Odometer reading reported for title
or registration
Odometer reported as 179,000 kilometers
01/15/2006 Ontario
Ministry of Transportation
Keswick, ON Registration issued or renewed
Registered as
personal vehicle


Tell us what you know about this vehicle


Have Questions? Please visit our Help Center at www.carfax.com. (http://www.carfax.com./)


New Owner Reported
When a vehicle is sold to a new owner, the Title must be transferred to the new owner(s) at a Department of Motor Vehicles.

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CARFAX defines an owner as an individual or business that possesses and uses a vehicle. Not all title transactions represent changes in ownership. To provide estimated number of owners, CARFAX proprietary technology analyzes all the events in a vehicle history. Estimated ownership is available for vehicles manufactured after 1994 and titled solely in the US including Puerto Rico. Dealers sometimes opt to take ownership of a vehicle and are required to in the following states: Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma and South Dakota. Please consider this as you review a vehicle's estimated ownership history.

92cadbro
05-10-06, 09:22 AM
Dear mharker,

Is it a possibility that I can also get a carfax report from you for my 92 Brougham???

Thanks

mharker
05-10-06, 12:03 PM
Sorry I don't have a subscription. Try posting on the "lounge" or similar sections on other auto boards. Some people have 30-day unlimited subscriptions and many will oblige.

Got this particular one by posting on impalassforum.com under misc.

90Brougham350
05-10-06, 02:33 PM
http://www.bandbhobbies.com/jwebb/vin_test.asp

This one is free!

mharker
05-14-06, 09:27 PM
Hey everyone. Just following up...

Took a drive by today and had another look with better light and sounder mind. Owner wasn't there... so still didn't open her up.

Price now said $5K "or BO", indicating seller realizes he's dreaming on that price.

Upon closer inspection I noticed there was some bubbling here and there, which made me wonder about the otherwise good-looking paint. Also the bottoms of all the doors were showing some rust, behind the trim pieces. Started thinking repaint? Then noticed some paint on a couple trim pieces from imperfect masking. Remember the bad vinyl top? Painted! No wonder it split so bad. Even what I assume should be chrome trim surrounding the vinyl top looked like it was painted. Horrible.

So definitely a pass on this one. Rusty car repainted and gonna rust again. Anyway good learning experience and still looking!