: Brake line suprise!!!



DaveBlk
05-07-06, 12:39 AM
Holy -rap ! Just installed my 4 stainless brake hoses from tire rack .com and installed 5.1 brake fluid through enyire system . SOLID pedal feel and better high speed repeat braking . Anyone with a similar result. I would definitely recomend this $175 upgrade!!!!:bouncy:

Junkman
05-07-06, 01:43 AM
I can understand your enthusiasm for the change over, but I can't understand why you believe that there is improved braking from just changing the lines to stainless steel and changing to DOT 5.1 brake fluid. Braking is a matter of the master cylinder pushing the fluid through the lines to the wheel cylinders or calipers where they exert pressure on the shoes or pads to cause friction between the shoes or pads on the rotor or brake drum. What am I missing that would have caused the improvement? Did you also change pads/shoes, or modify the diameter of the master cylinder bore to get additional pressure through the lines?
Also, curious where you purchased the DOT 5.1 fluid. I do a fluid change on all the vehicles every 2 years and have been considering upgrading to one of the synthetics. Here is the website (http://http://www.synlube.com/brake.htm) for the brand that I am considering. Thanks for you input to my questions........ Junk...

heavymetals
05-07-06, 01:45 AM
Stainless lines expand less from the hydraulic pressure.:thepan:

Ergo, better "feel".

They also "saw" through anything they touch, so ya gotta watch your install.

Junkman
05-07-06, 09:15 AM
Stainless lines expand less from the hydraulic pressure.:thepan:

Ergo, better "feel".

OK......... now I understand.:thumbsup: The steel lines that came with the car expand when you step on the brake and the stainless steel ones don't, or don't expand as much. I find this a remarkable engineering phenomena that has me speechless. You would think that since this must be a common occurrence, the factories would all use stainless steel brake lines. In fact, now that you have pointed this out, it is amazing that the Federal Government hasn't mandated stainless steel in all cars and forced the manufacturers to do a recall of all the vehicles that have the plain steel lines installed as original equipment. I am in total amazement...... I have just learned a important safety fact today. I wonder what the effect would be if you replaced the steel fuel line with a stainless steel one? Do you think that there is a good possibility that it will give you more power and miles per gallon??
Junk.. :bigroll:

2004ctsv
05-07-06, 10:14 AM
OK......... now I understand.:thumbsup: The steel lines that came with the car expand when you step on the brake and the stainless steel ones don't, or don't expand as much. I find this a remarkable engineering phenomena that has me speechless. You would think that since this must be a common occurrence, the factories would all use stainless steel brake lines. In fact, now that you have pointed this out, it is amazing that the Federal Government hasn't mandated stainless steel in all cars and forced the manufacturers to do a recall of all the vehicles that have the plain steel lines installed as original equipment. I am in total amazement...... I have just learned a important safety fact today. I wonder what the effect would be if you replaced the steel fuel line with a stainless steel one? Do you think that there is a good possibility that it will give you more power and miles per gallon??
Junk.. :bigroll:

The stainless braided hoses replace the rubber cord hoses at the wheels - not the entire brake line system.

Now you can be amazed:thepan:

T

Texan V
05-07-06, 10:30 AM
Is that sarcasm? :eek: Say it ain't so...:tisk:

Screw alluminum, I'm hoping to get a "stainless steel" engine block. It ought to be good for another 100 horses or so.

Junkman
05-07-06, 10:42 AM
Is that sarcasm? :eek: Say it ain't so...:tisk:

Nah....... never happen......:stirpot:


Screw alluminum, I'm hoping to get a "stainless steel" engine block. It ought to be good for another 100 horses or so.

I am more inclined to having one made of rubber. I always liked that squishy soft feeling of the accelerator pedal.:bigroll: :bigroll:

wildwhl
05-07-06, 01:30 PM
Junk -

He's talking about replacing the rubber flex lines with stainless braided lines. Though I've not done it on the V (I think the brakes are awesome as is) I have 9 pins and a plate in my left wrist and am missing half of my right knee as a testament to how much these can improve the "feel" of brakes on a sportbike. Don't ask. Just know they increase lever/pedal response.

I'm going for an expanded polypropolene block myself. Saves weight and can withstand a ton of abuse, as any model airplane "junky" would attest to.

WW

V-Max
05-07-06, 01:59 PM
Junk -

He's talking about replacing the rubber flex lines with stainless braided lines. Though I've not done it on the V (I think the brakes are awesome as is) I have 9 pins and a plate in my left wrist and am missing half of my right knee as a testament to how much these can improve the "feel" of brakes on a sportbike. Don't ask. Just know they increase lever/pedal response.

I'm going for an expanded polypropolene block myself. Saves weight and can withstand a ton of abuse, as any model airplane "junky" would attest to.

WW

I was thinking the same thing. The GTOs have a radius rod that leads from the strut(yeah, I know) forward to the lower radiator support. It is hydralic filled and flexes everytime you turn or put the brakes on. I figured it would eliminate the the right wheel ABS engagement over a dip that I hit under moderate braking daily. After installed solid poly bushing I went moderate brake pedal and both front tires ABS engaged before I got to the dip! D'oh!

I am sure ABS will be easier to engage after SS lines.

Norm - SS lines coming up!
http://www.beretta.net/board/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=261;st=255

heavymetals
05-07-06, 02:02 PM
Ya know, you try to be helpful, and sometimes you just get a bunch of KNOW NOTHING BS from some NON-SUPPORTING member.

That is why I am gonna quit trying to educate these idiots.:thepan:

Go check the lines that go to the caliper to the junction and they are high pressure rubber/hydraulic, not stainless or steel. moron.

51PHFTY
05-07-06, 04:31 PM
Junk -

He's talking about replacing the rubber flex lines with stainless braided lines. Though I've not done it on the V (I think the brakes are awesome as is) I have 9 pins and a plate in my left wrist and am missing half of my right knee as a testament to how much these can improve the "feel" of brakes on a sportbike. Don't ask. Just know they increase lever/pedal response.

I'm going for an expanded polypropolene block myself. Saves weight and can withstand a ton of abuse, as any model airplane "junky" would attest to.

WW

WW-

Exactly right. I put full SS braided on both my KTM's (Dual sport bikes) for the same reason.

Way back when, the first mod I used to do to my racing karts was the very same thing.

Marty

VELOSE
05-07-06, 11:52 PM
For some reason I really thought the V didn't need improvements with the brakes. Now......I'm wondering about it. Maybe some SS Lines and Motul brake fluid need to go on the list of mods too. Thanks DaveBlk for finding reasons for me to spend more money on the V.:thumbsup:

rand49er
05-08-06, 08:47 AM
... Thanks DaveBlk for finding reasons for me to spend more money on the V.:thumbsup::histeric:

What sarcasm? :rolleyes:

Ain't the truth, though.:yup:

DaveBlk
05-08-06, 09:03 AM
The brake fluid i used was MOTUL 5.1 not a synthetic! Do not use 5.0 it is synthetic and will ruin our system!!! 5.1 is similar to Dot 4 but with a different property to increase its wet and dry boiling point. AND yes you can feel the pedal difference in th VVVEEEEEEEEEE!!:highfive:

DaveBlk
05-08-06, 09:09 AM
Just another note for weight saving. I weighed the 5 factory lines after removing them total 3.5 pounds. The goodridge lines weigh only 1 pound do to the fact the don't have all the crapy rubber on them! AND they look cooler.:rolleyes:

BeagleBrains
05-08-06, 07:39 PM
Ya know, you try to be helpful, and sometimes you just get a bunch of KNOW NOTHING BS from some NON-SUPPORTING member.

That is why I am gonna quit trying to educate these idiots.:thepan:

Go check the lines that ...... are high pressure rubber/hydraulic, not stainless or steel. moron.

Pascal's law states that fluid pressure at any point within a closed container is applied equally at all points. That is why hydraulic brakes work so well. But, throw in a variable like the rubber line-to-wheel interconnect and you go outside the "law". Installing the stainless steel braided flex lines (that do not expand when pressure is applied) removes this variable. So, you get immediate improvement because all of the hydraulic pressure remains constant, acting to apply the brakes promptly. :bang2:
I am trying to quit these futile responses. :helpless:
NOTE that I believe in paying my own way.

Junkman
05-08-06, 08:22 PM
Pascal's law states that fluid pressure at any point within a closed container is applied equally at all points. That is why hydraulic brakes work so well. But, throw in a variable like the rubber line-to-wheel interconnect and you go outside the "law". Installing the stainless steel braided flex lines (that do not expand when pressure is applied) removes this variable. So, you get immediate improvement because all of the hydraulic pressure remains constant, acting to apply the brakes promptly. :bang2:
I am trying to quit these futile responses. :helpless:
NOTE that I believe in paying my own way.

Thanks for the explanation. Let me start off by saying that the original post didn't differantiate between the steel lines or the rubber ones. Being familiar with stainless steel replacement lines that are commonly used in restoration work, that is what I was thinking of. Now that you have pointed out the reasons, I can clearly understand where this is going and even though I haven't experianced it first hand, I stand corrected and have learned from others experiance. Having said all of that, possibly if I hadn't made my original comments, the thread might not have even gotten noticed. Junk...

Junkman
05-08-06, 08:40 PM
Stainless lines expand less from the hydraulic pressure.:thepan:

Had you originally said that these were replacement lines for the rubber lines, we might not have had to go through this exercise. Even though you believe that others know what you are referring to, doesn't always mean that it is so. That is why it is important to make your posts in such a way that everyone reading them understands what you are trying to convey to others.


Ya know, you try to be helpful, and sometimes you just get a bunch of KNOW NOTHING BS from some NON-SUPPORTING member.

That is why I am gonna quit trying to educate these idiots.:thepan:

Go check the lines that go to the caliper to the junction and they are high pressure rubber/hydraulic, not stainless or steel. moron.

I guess that this comment is referring to me. Do you think that being a SUPPORTING MEMBER makes you more intelligent or your input more valuable?? You won't advance the number of supporting members by calling those that are not supporting members "idiots".

While I might not have been of help to you, at least I have tried to be of help to others in need of a resolution to their problems, and in this one thread (http://http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1985-deville-fleetwood-1985/68379-mystery-horn.html)it was my help that resolved this other members problem. It has always been my intention to help and inform, and to also add a bit of humor whenever possible.

heavymetals
05-08-06, 08:47 PM
Had you originally said that these were replacement lines for the rubber lines, we might not have had to go through this exercise. Even though you believe that others know what you are referring to, doesn't always mean that it is so. That is why it is important to make your posts in such a way that everyone reading them understands what you are trying to convey to others.



I guess that this comment is referring to me. Do you think that being a SUPPORTING MEMBER makes you more intelligent or your input more valuable?? You won't advance the number of supporting members by calling those that are not supporting members "idiots".

While I might not have been of help to you, at least I have tried to be of help to others in need of a resolution to their problems, and in this one thread (http://http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1985-deville-fleetwood-1985/68379-mystery-horn.html)it was my help that resolved this other members problem. It has always been my intention to help and inform, and to also add a bit of humor whenever possible.

Gee how long did it take you to figure that one out?

Ya, it was directed at you!

By the way, your post would have been humorous if you had been right.:thepan:

DaveBlk
05-08-06, 10:20 PM
And i always thought this was a forum to help fellow owners and discuss the great V ??????:stirpot:

BadCad
05-09-06, 03:28 PM
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

BadCad
05-09-06, 03:29 PM
peace, brethren....
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

SwampFox
05-09-06, 03:59 PM
there is a certain amount of amusement factor sometimes. As long as it doesn't get out of hand...

BeagleBrains
05-09-06, 04:49 PM
I apologize for any ranting accusations. It seemed appropriate to explain the hydraulic line segments. You are soooooo correct. Most of the time, I learn from this forum because people are willing to share their experience. We all should strive to allow free open offerings with no threat a derision and abuse. Very likely, there will be something to learn. I am not just any idiot.
Taking a deep breath now. All of our experiences are different because life is a list of coincidences, at best.

DaveBlk
05-09-06, 11:15 PM
Did i mention removing a couple of the factory brake line hold down clips are a real beatch especially the rear passenger side ones!!

Dreamin
05-10-06, 01:11 AM
Too bad you did the fluid flush at the same time as brake line change. We cant tell where the improvement came from :(

I'd say 90% of the pedal improvement came from the fluid change, meaning flushing the system - getting old, used fluid out of the system, getting any air out of the system, etc; and 10% came from the SS lines.

1-2 year old rubber brake lines aren't deteriorated enough to noticably flex... change to SS when the car is 5-7 years old.

KILR CAD
05-10-06, 02:03 PM
I hate this site ! :thepan: Every time I read a new post or two I end up having to spend more $$$ :alchi:

BeastMaster
05-10-06, 02:29 PM
I'm going for a sound-proof rear end so i won't hear the WHINNNNNEEEEEEEE

Sorry - I couldn't resist.

thebigjimsho
05-11-06, 03:56 PM
Too bad you did the fluid flush at the same time as brake line change. We cant tell where the improvement came from :(

I'd say 90% of the pedal improvement came from the fluid change, meaning flushing the system - getting old, used fluid out of the system, getting any air out of the system, etc; and 10% came from the SS lines.

1-2 year old rubber brake lines aren't deteriorated enough to noticably flex... change to SS when the car is 5-7 years old.I agree. Rubber lines shouldn't give you a decreased level of feel for a few years in comparison to SS. Regular racers bleed their brakes regularly for optimal performance. While the SS lines won't degrade and getting them now doesn't hurt by any means, the better feel is most likely 90% due to fresh fluid. Engine oil, transmission fluid and differential oil aren't the only things that need to be changed for optimal performance.

And just think about it, compared to the other fluids mentioned, your brake system is EASILY subjected to the most brutal environment of all.