: 94 Eldorado surge in engine and 4 codes



huskyzzz
04-26-06, 12:24 PM
Okay, I have researched these problems to an extent and have an idea of what may be happening. I have found similar issues. Here is my problem, starting with the codes first:

P036, P071, P110, P132 and I022.

My problem. I have, in the last 2 weeks, noticed when I start my caddy it feels like the engine is rocking hard. The whole car shakes. Upon acceleration from a stop, it seems like it doesn't want to go but then gets up and finally goes. Hard start sometimes. I thought at first possibly tranny issue die to the rough start, like a slip in the gears. But then realized I was hearing a "knock" when I accelerate. When first going from a stop, cold or hot engine, I notice the first gear switch is at 4000 RPM's, 2nd gear at 3000-3500 and 3rd at 2000. This was not happening before. Always around 2000-2500. Secondly, since about a week ago, the "battery no charge" comes on upon starting, then as soon as I pull away, all is fine. Don't see it anymore and not all the time. Thirdly, I smell a strong fuel smell inside upon starting my car. I have replaced the spark plugs... all 8 with the Bosch Pure Platinum -2 and all the SP wires. Routed correctly. Fisrt test drive after that was done, car ran great. Just the gas smell. Drove around for 3 miles, all I could do with the schedule I was on, and when I started the car again later, approx. 4 hours later... car has since ran with the same problem. I am at wits end. Love my car and will not get rid of it. But, I am at a dead end. Alternator and battery are less than 6 months old. Battery is AC Delco. Alternator ordered from GM directly. I have checked everything ans asked everyone I know.

Gas smell upon start, rough (and I mean rough) idle, slow acceleration, knock sometimes when accelerating... is the engine going kaputz on me? I surely hope not. There is 157K miles on it. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated in this matter. I am no mechanic, but a sure fire hands on person. Knowledge is power, therefore... I want to be that "lethal" weapon!! :rant2:
Amanda in FL

eldorado1
04-26-06, 01:06 PM
Bosch plugs are crap. They literally fall apart. Do a search for more info and get them changed out ASAP.

Your likely problem comes from P071 - Intermittant MAP signal.

Enter diagnostics (someone else will have to tell you how) and check the barometer reading (PD02). Report back.

huskyzzz
04-26-06, 01:54 PM
Okay, I know how to enter the OBD's. I pulled PD02... the reading: 103. I will remove the Bosch SP's Probably tomorrow or Friday. Seems weird. I have researched alot on the codes, how to get them and what not. I appreciate the help, as this is the only means of transport. I have and being a single mom and luvin my caddy.. want to Git-R-Done!!! Thanks eldorado1

Amanda

P.S. What exactly is the "MAP signal"? Would MAP stand for "Manifold Absolute Pressure"? WOT... ?

blunted
04-26-06, 02:19 PM
Get some AC-Delco Plugs and Wires.. then check/clean your EGR. Also check your ignition coils, if you've never replaced one, then there's a good chance one is probably failing by now.. and those do cause alot of weird surging and crazy idles.

eldorado1
04-26-06, 02:32 PM
Okay, I know how to enter the OBD's. I pulled PD02... the reading: 103. I will remove the Bosch SP's Probably tomorrow or Friday. Seems weird. I have researched alot on the codes, how to get them and what not. I appreciate the help, as this is the only means of transport. I have and being a single mom and luvin my caddy.. want to Git-R-Done!!! Thanks eldorado1

Amanda

P.S. What exactly is the "MAP signal"? Would MAP stand for "Manifold Absolute Pressure"? WOT... ?

Hmm... well 103 is pretty normal. Do you know if it's a current or history code? Unfortunately, testing beyond this will require some specialized tools... Although, try starting it up, letting it idle for a bit and report back the same PD02 reading. Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll say 10 or 100 or something. "Normal" will be about 30ish.

MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure, correct. It's a sensor that measures intake vacuum. Basically, it measures engine load (vacuum), and sends that to the computer.

huskyzzz
04-26-06, 03:00 PM
Ok. Will do. I did replace one coil about a year ago also. Which was faulty. One thing I did forget to mention.. don't know why I did but I did. Coolant is gone through like crazy. No leaks to be found anywhere. Three people.. 2 mechanics and me have looked. Nothing. No in-house diag's have been done, just OBD's. EGR valve will be done this weekend. As for the plugs... tonight. I believe the wires are delco wires. We shall see. I shall do the PD02 reading again and see how it goes and report back. Thanks for the help. One step closer to getting it done. :thumbsup:

Amanda

eldorado1
04-26-06, 03:32 PM
Hmm.... you're not painting a good picture. Coolant consumption with no visible leaks plus a rough idle leads me to believe you might have a headgasket problem.

zonie77
04-26-06, 05:05 PM
Coolant loss with no leaks is not a good sign.

Check the surge tank while cranking the engine, see if there is obvious movement in the coolant. A cyl leakdown test is in order.

Ranger
04-26-06, 05:24 PM
Check the FPR for the gas smell. Tech tips section has a "How To". I agree, the coolant situation does not sound good. Follow Zoinies advice.

huskyzzz
04-27-06, 07:50 AM
Ok. Changed the plugs. PD02 reading after was 34 then 44 after a drive. Checked FPR, good. Visible oil clumps in coolant. Cylinder is a major possibility. Going to get the "Sniffer" test done tomorrow to see if it is a head gasket also. It's running better, but still has it's moments. Delco's did make a major difference in performance though. The forums "how to's" helped a lot. Got a lil greasy, but who cares. :) Gonna get it checked and then will post from there. Head gasket is fixible. Cylinder in the Northstar engines... wouldn't it just be better to get another engine? Not gonna be cheap, but other than that.. the car is in MINT condition.

Ranger
04-27-06, 09:19 PM
A boneyard engine is usually cheaper than fixing head gaskets, however you are trading the devil you know, for the devil you don't.

huskyzzz
04-28-06, 10:51 AM
Well, it is the head gasket. Everything else has checked out to be in good working order. I baby this car, but not the way I drive it. :bouncy: Ya gotta love the N*'s. Got the R134a in there yesterday. She's blowing cold again.. WOO HOO. Now, I know this car.. engine and every bounce and ping in it and all too well. Glad to say I have done a majority of the work myself, with the help of the forums and GREAT experts on here. THX everyone. Now I have to make the decision. Replace the gasket, both of them (might as well) or do a rebuild. Their is some mileage on her, but other than the gaskets, everything else checked out. The mechanics were shocked how well taken care of she is and how good of a job a female did with manicured nails....:bighead: Just a rant... I am leaning towards the replacement of the gaskets.. In anyone's experience, would that be a good choice for an engine with 157K miles on it already and nothing else wrong? Thx again for the advice.

Also, is there any advice on the "Low oil pressure STOP engine" syndrome? We cannot find anything that could be causing this and it comes and goes. Only snapshot and code I can get is P110 and I022. Cleared the codes and test drove her, I022 and P110 came back. I have checked the termianl wires, all snug and the alternator is less than a year old. Check and cleaned the battery terminals... I am stumped. Again, any help is greatly appreciated.

:worship:

Ranger
04-28-06, 11:16 AM
If you do some research, you'll find that the Northstars have been pulled down at 250K and still have the factory honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder walls. There is usually no need to rebuild them. Just be sure to Timesert all 20 head bolt holes before reassembly.

The low oil pressure is usually just a bad oil pressure switch.

huskyzzz
04-28-06, 11:19 AM
I think I answered my own question on the gasket vs. replacement engine. Repair of the gaskets now would lead to the bottom engine "out" i.e. bearings and what not. Guess I am gonna try my luck with droppin this one and puttin a new one in. Guess my choices are 96-00 4.6L N* from Devilles, Concours and another Eldorado. Would I be correct on this?

Missed the last post before I posted this one. Guess we were replying at the same time. Cheapest I can find on the backup plan is 2K. 96 Deville... 70K. I just want to make the best and right choice.

eldorado1
04-28-06, 11:50 AM
I think I answered my own question on the gasket vs. replacement engine. Repair of the gaskets now would lead to the bottom engine "out" i.e. bearings and what not. Guess I am gonna try my luck with droppin this one and puttin a new one in. Guess my choices are 96-00 4.6L N* from Devilles, Concours and another Eldorado. Would I be correct on this?

Nope.

93-94 N* engines only, the 8th digit of the VIN has to be a "9". (like your ETC, or STS, etc)

huskyzzz
04-28-06, 12:15 PM
I was told I would have to do a modification if I chose the other engines. Hmm... I am up against the wall. I just want to make the best decision and fast. I don't want to tear the engine up for sure with driving it like this. I average about 1K miles every 2 weeks. And this is the only means of transportation I have avail right now.

blunted
04-28-06, 01:41 PM
I was told I would have to do a modification if I chose the other engines. Hmm... I am up against the wall. I just want to make the best decision and fast. I don't want to tear the engine up for sure with driving it like this. I average about 1K miles every 2 weeks. And this is the only means of transportation I have avail right now.

If I were you, i'd stick to 93/94 N* engines.. when you do find the engine to do the swap with, i'd look around to see if you can get it time-serted before installing so you avoid any future issues. As far as driving it around the way it is.. i'd carry a couple gallons of coolant in the trunk and throw some Bars Leak's pellets in your radiator hose to buy you some time. Good luck!

eldorado1
04-28-06, 02:12 PM
I was told I would have to do a modification if I chose the other engines. Hmm... I am up against the wall. I just want to make the best decision and fast. I don't want to tear the engine up for sure with driving it like this. I average about 1K miles every 2 weeks. And this is the only means of transportation I have avail right now.

Using a later engine would effectively mean blocking off the EGR. It will work, but you'll get worse gas mileage, worse emissions, and you'll be modifying emissions components which is illegal.. and depending on your state you will not pass E-testing, if that's done.

The modifications necessary would be cutting 8 slots in the heads.

Loose screw
04-30-06, 01:23 AM
You mentioned: "Also, is there any advice on the "Low oil pressure STOP engine" syndrome? We cannot find anything that could be causing this and it comes and goes."
Coolant in your oil can thin it out and since the two don't stay mixed well you could start up the engine and be lubricating it with antifreez and/or water be for you start pumping oil again ( or visa versa)

I would recomend you repair with time-serts rather than swap out the engine. Your very likely to get a engine that has the same problem or will soon if the time-serts have not already be installed. Any engine you can find to fit in there will have both plenty of miles and years on it.

Where do you live, we may have some guys in your neighboorhood that have a weekend free to help you through it and may arleardy have the timesert kit.

Note: You must stop diving it if you can't trust the oil pressure, or you will have to do a full overhual.

Loose screw
05-01-06, 02:01 AM
One quick test method might show something - when the engine is cold remove the coolant cap (radiator tank cap) refill the tank and run the engine until it has fully warmed up and then let it sit over night still with the cap off. Start the engine in the morning and see if it still rocks and shakes as hard. You may have been trying to compress a liquid (the coolant that leaked into a cylinder) and it doesn't compress. With the cap off and no pressure in the cooling system, less coolant should leak into a cylinder and the engine should crank over smother than befor. If it makes a difference you can be pretty confident you have a coolant leak into a cylinder - head gasket - time to Time-sert

huskyzzz
05-10-06, 11:02 AM
Well, when you take the cap off of the radiator, cold or hot.. there is a lot and I mean alot of oil in there. I am in Tampa, FL but moving to Bartow, FL soon. I am getting married in the next week and have had a lot going on so was not around to read or post. I will do the overnight sit test and see how that goes. She's sitting pretty in Zephyrhills right now. Thanks for all the help.

eldorado1
05-10-06, 11:38 AM
Yep, your engine is screwed.

Ranger
05-10-06, 05:03 PM
Remember, the oil cooler is a coiled tube inside the side tank which acts like a heat exchanger as oil flows through. If that tube is leaking, oil pressure is greater than cooling system pressure, so there may be some oil being pumped into the cooling system. Just a thought.

eldorado1
05-10-06, 08:08 PM
check your dipstick, and pray it's not milk chocolate colored.

94CaddyConcours
05-12-06, 06:41 PM
I am getting married in the next week and have had a lot going on so was not around to read or post.

Your future husband must be a very lucky man. Rarely would we see a woman get down and dirty.
Good luck and Congrat.
I know this is off topic

Loose screw
05-14-06, 03:04 AM
Oil in the coolant MAY not be what it appears, some one could have put in a stop leak that had oil in it or what appears to be oil. If you drain and flush the cooling system completely including the tank (it's never complete, over a liter will still be stuck in the system) and refill the cooling system and see no oil but then run the engine and it then reappears and keeps increasing after your first full warm up and drive you would have to conclude oil is making its's way in to the cooling system and there is no solution except a tear down to fix it.



Note: when refilling a drained N* cooling system it helps to disconnect the upper hose from the engine and back fill the radiator through that hose and air will come out of the engine coolant port. Connect the hose and clamp and then fill the coolant tank. This helps to get a lot of air out of the system that you would have to otherwise wait for the thermostat to open to allow it to circulate out to the tank and then out. But mean while it can act like it is over heating. This does not work on all engine but it does on the N* because this by passes the thermostat, back fills the radiator and block and bleeds the air out the top of the head through the coolant cross over. It assure your head gaskets will stay cool and wet during the first warm up after a drain.