Cadillac Owners Forum banner

Issue with shop and crank pin kit

5K views 30 replies 12 participants last post by  TimmyC 
#1 · (Edited)
My car is in getting work done, and they're attempting to pin the crank with the SLP part # 847-100250 "GM Crank Pin Kit for the LS motor" (http://www.jegs.com/i/SLP/847/100250/10002/-1 ) that I supplied them, per advice from another thread titled "Loose Harmonic Balancer" ( http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-v-series-forum/655258-loose-harmonic-balancer.html ). It appeared as though multiple people used this very same kit on here with ZERO Issues. My shop is saying that it doesn't fit - essentially that the drill guide's hole doesn't intersect both the outer circumference of the crankshaft and the inner circumference of the crankshaft pulley equally, to form the keyway (i.e. the hole will either be 100% in the crankshaft or 100% in the pulley, not 50% in each piece that I'm trying to join)! Also, they're stating that the bolt is 3" too long! That nothing lines up!

Can anyone confirm that this is the correct Part #!??!?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

So the story is that while the LS pin kit could've worked on the LC3, but since the pin kit is not designed for this exact application, the locator on the drill-guide has some play when properly positioned around the drill-guide-bolt after insertion into the crank threads. Therefore, they feel that the hole cannot be guaranteed to be drilled straight in line with the axis of the crankshaft. They are worried that if they drill it on any type of imperceptible angle (we're talking thousandths here), and thereafter pin it, the pulley could bind against the newly installed pin located between it and the crankshaft, and forever be unable to be removed. Not only that, but they also stated that the replacement bolt for the original they removed isn't the exact duplicate, further complicating matters. They are in the process of buttoning it all back up now, and were going to use the original bolt removed, with goo-gobs of red Loctite on it, to re-secure the pulley. I was worried that reusing this stretched bolt might cause the very same problem it was intended to prevent, the crankshaft pulley coming loose. So I had to rush around on the phone, and source for them a new replacement bolt from Cadillac near their shop, for them to pick up, as they are located 180 miles from my home. To top it all off, the dealer cannot take credit cards over the phone due to a new computer system, so my pissed off shop guy has to pay for it. And the Caddy parts department closes in 45 minutes...WHAT. A. SH!T. SHOW. Wish I had known this prior to stating this debacle... Everyone made it sound as if everything was straight and tight!
 
#3 ·
It doesn't have to be 100% centered between the crank and the balancer. Just drill a tiny bit to see where the bit lines up, take off the guide, see where the mark is and if all looks well then drill it in 3/8" or so. You don't have to make a super deep mark to see where it will line up. Just spin the bit for 1 second and take the guide off. Verify placement and put the jig back on and go to town. Like I said, if it's not 100% center that's ok. Just a little bit is all you need. Heck for peace of mind put another one in on the other side.
 
#4 ·
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!



My impression was that they are now saying they couldn't guarantee a straight shot INTO the crank/pulley surface as per my second post, not that the hole's diameter would be off center in the mating surfaces, as per the first post. I got a couple of reasons from them about why pinning with this kit wouldn't be prudent, which includes both of those we just stated, and the fact that the replacement bolt included in the LS kit to replace the LC3 original was different. They just got all frustrated that it wasn't designed to fit exactly as it should in this application, and determined that the risks of them pinning it outweighed the benefits, I guess. They're gonna SLAM me on shop time for it, I'm SURE. They stated it was a bitch to get apart...

Good news is I just bought 2 OEM crank bolts for around $13.00 - one for them to use now in reassembly, and the other for me to use later when I attempt again what they failed to do.
 
#6 ·
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

I am going to make a general comment here regarding the advice on this board. It is not directed at anyone, but an observation of mine. (from reading links and doing my own work) There are many armchair mechanics that post on here and do not do the work. It is best to check everything yourself before you start. This is from my direct experience. It is a great resource to get you started but do not believe everything you read.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

My guy, from the angle he could see it (because you cannot get a straight shot looking at the front of the pulley with the heat exchangers in the way), says that the jig looked like it was going to drill ONLY into the pulley, and not AT ALL into the crankshaft/pulley interface, and didn't want to chance it. I don't know why they didn't slightly test bore it and use a mirror to inspect it like Ninja-V suggested above, but they didn't. I think they got scared because the application wasn't made for the car, and as such the keyway looked like it would be cut too shallow. Plus, the replacement GM bolt in the kit didn't match whatsoever the original, so they were confused as to how to put it back together, as they KNOW not to use the old bolt. Worst part is, by the time they called and told me that they were having an issue, they put the OLD bolt back in, instead of using the NEW bolt I'd already secured them from the dealer literally 2 miles down the street. There's another 4 hours in labor I'm sure to remedy that mistake, because I'm NOT paying $8k in motor repairs because they resused an $8 part. I'm taking the 166 mi drive there today at 5:00pm in a sh!tbox rental car for pickup, and we will discuss more at that time when I can see firsthand what they're talking about. I'll be sure to post back. Everything else regarding the ported S/C and TB and 2.4" upper pulley went easy, it was just the pinning job that fouled them up.

----------

I am going to make a general comment here regarding the advice on this board. It is not directed at anyone, but an observation of mine. (from reading links and doing my own work) There are many armchair mechanics that post on here and do not do the work. It is best to check everything yourself before you start. This is from my direct experience. It is a great resource to get you started but do not believe everything you read.
----------

I typically perform my own work, and I was planning upon pinning the crank myself. I've never really had TREMENDOUS issues installing items while referencing the posts of others circulated here, but what typically happens is that the skillsets of those posting are BEYOND my scope, not below it, as would be in the case you mention of an armchair mechanic. I'm the armchair mechanic. Hell, I might just be the armchair, with access to a lift! I've done all my own work up to this point, with a lot of Q&A to TimmyC in the process! However, because of the date of my appointment for the ported S/C & TB & pulley install, I figured they could just do the work at the shop, and therefore only have to bleed the H/E & S/C coolant system once.

Well, you already know what they say about "best layed plans." My understanding from my tuner (who is not an employee of the shop) is that the shop performed all of the S/C work, buttoned it up, and bled it. THEN they realized that they forgot to pin it, removed the plumbing AGAIN, pulled out all the fans, failed to pin it, and then put it back together with the OLD stretched bolt, and bled it AGAIN. So today they are AGAIN pulling the plumbing and fans apart to put the NEW bolt in the crank, bleeding it, and reassembling it.

How I don't want to see the labor charge for THIS one! My tuner says that cars are stacked up around the block because I tied up one of the two lifts for an extra day (my tuner comes in for a week at a shot, once every 3-4 months, from his own performance shop in FL, to do GM tuning at his buddy's place in Gettysburg, and everybody waits for his arrival to do their less time consuming upgrades, and get a tune). I imagine we're going to have to do some wheelin' & dealin' on the labor, because both sides are culpable in this debacle. Me for not initially including a new LC3 crank bolt ALONG WITH with the LS pin kit to reassemble the crank, and them for forgetting to pin it when they had the S/C and plumbing apart, subsequently having to tear it apart again, and putting it back together with the old stretched bolt, when I sourced a new one for their use from the dealer literally two miles down the street, with just a single phone call.
 
#8 ·
I did mine myself I'm a tech at Chevy dealership kept walking my crankshAft pulley off was fairly simple to be honest. Bought the slp pin kit only snag I ran into was had to use stock crank bolt for the lc3 engine and cut the washer off it ran the jig up and there is some play I took a pick and u could feel the ridge between the crank and pulley also noted I removed cooling fans for room used angle drill and the bit supplied in the kit and it cut through it like butter pulled the jig little locktite on the pin new crankshaft bolt and it's been good ever since
 
#10 ·
#13 · (Edited)
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

Keith of Keith's Pit Stop in Gettysburg did the work. I failed to notify them that the kit was an LS going into the LC3, so that is not their fault. It's mine, and they thought it was wrong for the car. My tuner is Fasterproms out of Tampa- the owner himself, Jeremy Formato. Keith's tore the car down, and reinstalled the new crank bolt. Charged me 9 hours labor when they had 17 in it. No shop parts/pieces. Fair. Car started at 408RWHP with the prior mods (Spectre intake, headers, full Borla, tune), and ended 453RWHP with the addition of the new mods (TC intake, TC heat exchanger, Jabsco pump, TC 2.4" pulley, ported TC throttle body, TC 62# injectors, & Fasterproms ported S/C). It runs like a whole new animal, totally different. The torque is unreal compared to what it was. Very happy with it. Forget the torque #s off-hand, but will post the slip later. Total for the job was $2443: ported blower ($900), tune ($290), blower shipping ($50), and the 9 hours of labor/tax/other bullsh!t ($1243), which includes the pinning debacle. Jeremy gave me a deal on the porting as he charged $900, when typically the rate on the CTS-V is closer to $1500. Tip each $100 for he work, and pay each in a check.

I leave at near 10:00pm after watching the next couple cars dyno. Set the DIC to display the "Oil Pressure" reading to monitor the car, and be safe. Thank gosh I did! Oil pressure runs 59-62 at 2000 rpm, after warming up from 101 psi at cold startup. About 20 miles from the shop, I get on it after topping off at a desolate gas station, as the road was drying out in that spot from the day's rainstorms. What a freight train! But my excitement was extremely short-lived. The oil pressure reading hits 62, then 34, then 17psi in about five seconds, and I immediately shut it down and coasted into a business' gravel parking lot/driveway 500-600 yards from where I pulled out. She didn't trip a code or light on the dash, I caught it that fast. I got my flashlight out of the trunk, and popped the hood anticipating crank bolt failure. My once clean engine bay with only 19,500 on it is COATED with oil - on EVERYTHING. We're talking a car that'd seen inclement weather maybe four or five times in it's life previous. F@CK. Since there was oil on the fans, I figured it'd have to be an oil cooler line if it was that far forward. Connection must've popped out. This after it was dynoed, which is crazy b/c you'd figure with the stress of tuning, it'd have grenaded anything loose or questionable on the rollers.

I tell you this NOT to say that the work was shoddy. Oversight for sure, but shit happens when you tune. I tell you this to tell you the character of both these folks, Keith and Jeremy. So Keith came out with the tow truck, we dollied the rear, and he towed me back to his shop to assess the issue. He should do that, you say, as it is his screwup. True, fair enough. He then offers to put me in a hotel for the night, which isn't an option for me, as my son's baptism was scheduled for 9 am the next morning, 166 miles away. And I'd already returned the rental car to the after hours drop box, so it's either fix it, or a one-way taxicab ride for me. We put a couple more quarts in, raise her on the lift, pull off the belly cover, and turn it over to pressurize the system and find the bleed. Upon raising it, I find that oil is ALL OVER the entire underside of the car. Underside stickers were still mint, and now they're friggin' brown. Looks like SH!T. F@CK again. Turns out the lower oil cooler connection came loose, and Keith reconnected it. The 10mm bolt holding the bracket just before the connection was never re tightened, allowing the line the play necessary to vibrate itself apart. Keith feels terrible. He douches the underside of the car with brake cleaner, as well as the engine bay and plastic underpan, offering to get the car detailed. I say don't bother, I'll detail it.

I leave, getting home at 4 am, oil pressure good the whole way, running through as much standing water as possible in the rainstorm, with the underpan removed to douche the oil off the undercarriage. Upon my arrival, I see the whole $1243.00 labor check on the floorboard. I texted my tuner that the check must've been stuck to the bottom of his computer after he removed it off the desk and placed it into my car to read my OBD2 for any codes after the oil debacle. He says that Keith felt so bad for the oil that he gave the entire check BACK to me. Now, that is OVERLY generous, but just a glimpse into the character and care of Keith and Jeremy, who worked until 1:30am to get me out. He and I will work something out when I call him this week to discuss what he feels is a fair compromise, given the oil issue and associated cleanup I'll have to complete.

Just wanted to highlight this as such consideration is rare these days.
 
#16 ·
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

Glad to see customer service is still alive. That shop will probably reap the rewards of you spreading the good word to your friends and family to make up for giving you back that check. Still, I would deduct the amount for a good detailing and send them a check for the remainder of their labor charge.
 
#19 ·
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

Nice numbers. Now get to the track. This is why I use these guys for all my tuning and mods I cant do my self. Very stand up people do deal with. Sorry I missed getting up when you were there. But only 449 rwtq. I would take it back that's week. My v did all most 1000 rwtq


O sorry wrong v lol.
 
#22 ·
Re: Help!!!! Issue with shop and crank pin kit!!!

Very rare shop indeed. However you are a rare customer as well. Many people would not understand (shit does happen!) and just blow a gasket. A happy ending for all. I would just pay him. I am sure the good will from this site will help as well. We need to support the independents that do good work including the dealers.
 
#23 ·
Very rare shop indeed. However you are a rare customer as well. Many people would not understand (shit does happen!) and just blow a gasket. A happy ending for all. I would just pay him. I am sure the good will from this site will help as well. We need to support the independents that do good work including the dealers.
Over the years I have been reading on the forums. ..there aren't many dealers worth a crap...most are just about the money,piss on service or customers. ..

----------

We need a sticky with Dealers and shops to avoid. ..
And highly recommended customer shops......just a thought....
 
#24 ·
Keith and I spoke, and he STILL wanted me to keep the entire check. That's the kind of guy he is. A+. I like to think that I'm the same way, so we came to an arrangement in which we both were happy. His swift action to remedy the issue at midnight got me home in time for my son's baptism, and I didn't need to spend extra $ on a cab ride to get there, or on another rental car charge days later, to repeat a failed pickup.

It turns out running it home in the rain to douche the brake cleaner and oil off the bottom without the belly pan on that night grenaded the right front inner fender and the brake duct tubing inside it. Also, the felt/rubber air directors in front of the radiators are all torn up from the front fascia going on and off. Had to get some new plastic pins from GM too, as some are missing and/or destroyed. BTW, They're like $2 EACH for replacement pieces at the dealer. What a RIPOFF by GM! Spent as much on the inner fender and brake duct tubing as I did for the pins, though I'll be taking back those I don't use.

I spent all day Friday douching the engine bay and entire undercarriage on my buddy's lift, using a full 3 gallons of Crud Cutter Multipurpose in a weed sprayer, and power-washing it off every 5-10 minutes. Got it very clean, but WHAT A FRIGGIN' MESS in the process. Then I ran it through the really good local car wash...three times. Shit happens. Onto the next mod at Keith's!
 
#27 ·
It's a totally different car from what it was at 408/394, and light years past stock. Finally got it on the highway in the dry yesterday, and the torque is what is immediately noticeable. It really digs compared to what it used to, and it's crazy-easy now to break the tires loose, even though they've been upgraded to a 285 width and a softer compound.

It definitely pulls harder from 60-90, but how much faster is hard to quantify. It's friggin quick, though, for ANY car, much less a 4400lb sedan, and it sounds like a friggin screaming eagle doing it.

On a side note, I think I'm done modding this car. It's fast enough for me, while (theoretically) remaining within the reliability threshold of the powertrain. Besides, the last 45 RWHP to get to 495-500 costs too much to achieve, and would eat into its utility as a family weekend-car. There are cheaper cars out there to get 500+RWHP from.

These guys below got this car right to where I wanted it-PERFECT:

Thanks to Timmy Coeling of TC-Fab.com for all his performance parts such as the intake, headers, heat-exchanger, 2.4" upper pulley, ported throttle body, & injectors (and for answering the myriad of questions I've had during the mod process), Keith of Keith's Pit Stop for the S/C install work and dyno use (and his honesty, integrity, & generosity), and Jeremy Formato of Fasterproms for a simply badass tune and S/C porting.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top