So I took a short trip down to Duluth, MN and got a ticket on the way there.

While driving through Canada, I always set my cruise control at 110 km/hr (66mph). I do this because the speed limit is 90 km/hr, and I don't want a ticket for going anything 20+km/hr over the limit.

Anyways, I crossed the border, and kept my cruise control at this speed (the limit here is 55mph). I see a cop in front of me, so I slow down a bit, and sure enough he spins around and pulls me over.

The conversation goes like this:

Cop: Where you goin in such a hurry?
Me: Uhh..nowhere really..just headed to a wedding in Duluth
Cop: Do you know how fast you were going?
Me; Well..110km/hr..so about 65mph.
Cop: Nope, 72mph.
Me: Uhh...no, that's like 120km/hr..I was NOT going 120 km/hr.
Cop: Maybe not after you slammed on your brakes.
Me: I never slammed on my brakes, and I wasn't going 120 km/hr. Do you have that on your radar back there?
Cop: No. But I'm not going to stand here and argue.
Me: I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you my speed.
*Takes my license* Wait here.
Cop comes back after...
Cop: I've written you a ticket for 72mph.
Me: Are you sure you don't have that recorded somewhere I can see back there?
Cop: Oh, I've got it all recorded, but for my safety and yours, you can't see it. (Note the change of story after saying he never had it).
Me: I've never heard that before.
Cop: Well, that's what I'm telling you.

And the rest was just babble. Soooo...I'm 99% sure I was NOT doing 120 km/hr (72mph)..it was 110 km/hr (66mph). I'm more than happy to pay a fine for 66mph...

How do I go about fighting this? In Canada I'm pretty sure if you ask a cop to see the radar he is supposed to show you (I could be wrong). He also lied to me about having the speed recorded in the first place, and most importantly, he's pulling my speed of 72 mph out of his ass. To fight the ticket requires a 3 hour drive for me there and back (6 hours) which is a day off work. I could just go to work which would make me the money to pay for the ticket ($147), or I could go fight it. But the principle of the whole thing is telling me to fight it - that is, if I have any chance at all..what do you guys think?

So I took a short trip down to Duluth, MN and got a ticket on the way there.

While driving through Canada, I always set my cruise control at 110 km/hr (66mph). I do this because the speed limit is 90 km/hr, and I don't want a ticket for going anything 20+km/hr over the limit.

Anyways, I crossed the border, and kept my cruise control at this speed (the limit here is 55mph). I see a cop in front of me, so I slow down a bit, and sure enough he spins around and pulls me over.

The conversation goes like this:

Cop: Where you goin in such a hurry?
Me: Uhh..nowhere really..just headed to a wedding in Duluth
Cop: Do you know how fast you were going?
Me; Well..110km/hr..so about 65mph.
Cop: Nope, 72mph.
Me: Uhh...no, that's like 120km/hr..I was NOT going 120 km/hr.
Cop: Maybe not after you slammed on your brakes.
Me: I never slammed on my brakes, and I wasn't going 120 km/hr. Do you have that on your radar back there?
Cop: No. But I'm not going to stand here and argue.
Me: I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you my speed.
*Takes my license* Wait here.
Cop comes back after...
Cop: I've written you a ticket for 72mph.
Me: Are you sure you don't have that recorded somewhere I can see back there?
Cop: Oh, I've got it all recorded, but for my safety and yours, you can't see it. (Note the change of story after saying he never had it).
Me: I've never heard that before.
Cop: Well, that's what I'm telling you.

And the rest was just babble. Soooo...I'm 99% sure I was NOT doing 120 km/hr (72mph)..it was 110 km/hr (66mph). I'm more than happy to pay a fine for 66mph...

How do I go about fighting this? In Canada I'm pretty sure if you ask a cop to see the radar he is supposed to show you (I could be wrong). He also lied to me about having the speed recorded in the first place, and most importantly, he's pulling my speed of 72 mph out of his ass. To fight the ticket requires a 3 hour drive for me there and back (6 hours) which is a day off work. I could just go to work which would make me the money to pay for the ticket ($147), or I could go fight it. But the principle of the whole thing is telling me to fight it - that is, if I have any chance at all..what do you guys think?

Line from a song, "I fought the Law and the Law won!"

Haha, I've found that out in the past once when I fought a ticket....I just hate the thought of paying a ticket for something I didn't do! Grrr...

Haha, I've found that out in the past once when I fought a ticket....I just hate the thought of paying a ticket for something I didn't do! Grrr...

Yeah, it sucks. It's happened to me too. The judge always leans to the arresting officer.:rant2:

Interesting find...according to Minnesoate State Law:

"Records of tests made of such devices and kept in the
regular course of operations of any law enforcement agency are
admissible in evidence without further foundation as to the
results of the tests. The records shall be available to a
defendant upon demand. Nothing in this subdivision shall be
construed to preclude or interfere with cross examination or
impeachment of evidence of the rate of speed as indicated on the
radar or speed-measuring device. "


The line "The records shall be available to a defendant upon demand. " Does this not mean that if I asked to see the device, he should have let me? Or is it saying that I can make a written request afterwards?

Nevermind. I think they're talking about records about the maintanence of the radar detector.

Ok, I'm obsessed with this now...I found something even better, as per Minnesota State Law:
169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine.

(a) The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty to the violation
upon issuance of the citation

He never gave me this option. Done deal?

I dont think its a done deal at this point, because on the ticket you have the option to plead guilty and mail in the fine.....So, I believe its the same thing, he just didnt tell ya.....sorry......I always want to fight the tickets too, and usually win, but your right its a wasted day......ever think about writing a letter to his boss??

Never thought about writing a letter to the boss...I am going to write one asking for the records regarding the calibration of his radar gun.

I mean, he's a cop, I would hope that he's just not blatantly lying, but I do think his radar gun must have been miscalibrated. I figure if this is true AND he didn't properly follow procedures, the judge should rule in my favour...I hope...

Never thought about writing a letter to the boss...I am going to write one asking for the records regarding the calibration of his radar gun.

I mean, he's a cop, I would hope that he's just not blatantly lying, but I do think his radar gun must have been miscalibrated. I figure if this is true AND he didn't properly follow procedures, the judge should rule in my favour...I hope...

I wish you the best of luck but I'll bet you a Happy Meal the citation doesn't get reversed..maybe not even brought to court. I know it sucks.:mad:

Throw the ticket in the garbage. They won't extradite and they'll probably let you back in the U. S. in about twenty years.

Throw the ticket in the garbage. They won't extradite and they'll probably let you back in the U. S. in about twenty years.

Bah, who says I want to come back.:p

So does anyone know if the following means the officer was supposed to offer me credit card payment as part of the procedure? By my interpretation, that is exactly what it is saying:

169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine.

(a) The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty to the violation
upon issuance of the citation and to pay the fine to the issuing
officer with a credit card.

(b) The commissioner of public safety shall adopt rules to
implement this section, including specifying the types of credit
cards that may be used.

Fighting tickets is complicated, but possible to do. The best way to get a ticket dismissed is by figuring out some kind of loop hole that will get it dismissed.

For example, here in WA state, the officer has to file the ticket with the court within two days of issuance. If he files it in three days, the judge will dismiss the case (but the defendant has to make a motion for this first).

Every state has different laws, though (I know, very confusing for someone from Canada!). Your best option would be to hire an attorney, who is from the area in which you got the ticket, and have them look at your infraction. Here in WA, attorneys will do this for like 2-300 bucks or so. Not cheap, but still pretty cheap for an attorney. I know one attorney here that only does this. He gets like 90% of his tickets dismissed on technicalities.

So, it will still cost you time and money to fight it, but if you're willing to fight it, you *might* win (and there are never any guarantees). Again, an attorney could look at your individual case and tell you your odds.

Good luck.

(a) The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty to the violation
upon issuance of the citation and to pay the fine to the issuing
officer with a credit card.


I wish cops took credit cards. Do you know what kind of bribes i would get away with!!!:alchi:

Haha, too traceable. Use cash :P

That sucks.

Technically, in a perfect world you could probably get out of it. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world. The judge will probably side with the police officer.

That's what stinks about the police and such. It's relying on the integrity of people. So like people, there are good and honest cops and lying jerks that like to throw their weight around.

Looks like you ran into one of the latter.

Try Xcopper.com

There's a free consult form here:
http://cs.xcopper.com/form.php?country=USA

So does anyone know if the following means the officer was supposed to offer me credit card payment as part of the procedure? By my interpretation, that is exactly what it is saying:

169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine.

(a) The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty to the violation
upon issuance of the citation and to pay the fine to the issuing
officer with a credit card.

(b) The commissioner of public safety shall adopt rules to
implement this section, including specifying the types of credit
cards that may be used.
This is out of my general practice area, but check the ticket and see if there is some kind of declaration from the issuing officer stating that he offered you the option of pleading guilty and paying the fine. Reading the section 169.983 you have some issues on your side. So here is a free breakdown and interpretation of the MN law for ya... - it's what us lawyers do for a living

1)"The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty" ....He has to give you that option. Because of the word shall, it basically requires him to do so. He has no option. Sometimes statutes will say "may". IN this instance it requires him to give you that option.

2) "to the violation upon issuance of the citation" - Here it says upon issuance. It didn't say upon receipt or anything else. It said upon issuance which technically means that at the time he wrote that citation you should have gotten the option to plead guilty....

3) "and to pay the fine to the issuing officer with a credit card" The word "and" is key here. Not only was he supposed to give you the option but he also had to give you the option to pay with a credit card. It is not either or. You must have been presented with BOTH options (plead guilty and pay with credit card) AT THE TIME OF ISSUANCE. No mailing, no appearance at court, then and there, right there on the spot.....Additionally, you are to pay the issuing officer...How else are you to pay him unless the payment was taken right there on the spot. It's not like he left you a billing address...

My only two questions are...1) On the citation did he state that you violated section 169.14
2) Does it state anywhere under Minnesota law that failure to follow "169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine." requires a dismissal. If it does, you are good to go.

My opinion, fight it! Whenever there is a defect in a citation, missing information, inaacurate information etc., those tickets are usually dismissed. I would also make the argument that the cop violated your due process rights which are protected under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution .........ahhhhhhh..O.K. maybe the due process argument may be a bit much, but you get what I'm saying'? lol

I don't pay out of province or out of state tickets...ever. I really don't know anyone who does. The only time I had to pay was in Montanna, when I got pulled over I had to pay on the spot. Records aren't shared from province to province or from provinces to the states, so there is no reason to pay.

This is out of my general practice area, but check the ticket and see if there is some kind of declaration from the issuing officer stating that he offered you the option of pleading guilty and paying the fine. Reading the section 169.983 you have some issues on your side. So here is a free breakdown and interpretation of the MN law for ya... - it's what us lawyers do for a living

1)"The officer who issues a citation for a violation by a
person who does not reside in Minnesota of section 169.14 shall
give the defendant the option to plead guilty" ....He has to give you that option. Because of the word shall, it basically requires him to do so. He has no option. Sometimes statutes will say "may". IN this instance it requires him to give you that option.

2) "to the violation upon issuance of the citation" - Here it says upon issuance. It didn't say upon receipt or anything else. It said upon issuance which technically means that at the time he wrote that citation you should have gotten the option to plead guilty....

3) "and to pay the fine to the issuing officer with a credit card" The word "and" is key here. Not only was he supposed to give you the option but he also had to give you the option to pay with a credit card. It is not either or. You must have been presented with BOTH options (plead guilty and pay with credit card) AT THE TIME OF ISSUANCE. No mailing, no appearance at court, then and there, right there on the spot.....Additionally, you are to pay the issuing officer...How else are you to pay him unless the payment was taken right there on the spot. It's not like he left you a billing address...

My only two questions are...1) On the citation did he state that you violated section 169.14
2) Does it state anywhere under Minnesota law that failure to follow "169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine." requires a dismissal. If it does, you are good to go.

My opinion, fight it! Whenever there is a defect in a citation, missing information, inaacurate information etc., those tickets are usually dismissed. I would also make the argument that the cop violated your due process rights which are protected under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution .........ahhhhhhh..O.K. maybe the due process argument may be a bit much, but you get what I'm saying'? lol

Some good stuff pjohnesq.... wow, now we know who to call on when we're in some deep waters!!! :thumbsup:

pjohnesq was standing on the gallows with his client. His client says, "I thought you told me I was going to be tried by a higher power." pjohn says, "Just keep your shirt on Ace".

No kidding, thanks so much pjohnsq! I'm stuck at work at the moment, but as soon as I get home I'll check the ticket for the things you mentioned!

I'll fill you in when I get the details!

The ticket does indeed have 169.14 written on it as the offense...

Now I have to find as you said, if "under Minnesota law that failure to follow 169.983 Speeding violation; credit card payment of fine requires a dismissal. If it does, you are good to go."

Hmmmm...

This is all I can find :(

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/169/983.html

Just noticed something else on the ticket...he did NOT fill in the colour of my car....that surely helps me as well, no?

You were going to fast for him to get the color. :bouncy: Call or check on line and make sure the police agency abides by that section and doesn't have some type of exemption.

Haha, I was NOT speeding! :P

I'm having difficulty finding stuff specific to Minnesota traffic law online...Grrr...

There's an old comic routine where the lawyer is encouraging his client to keep fighting his traffic ticket and as the case moves up through the courts and the bills mount the client keeps asking, "Why don't we just pay the $2.00?" It ends with the client sitting in the electric chair with the executioners hand on the switch and the client asking, "Why don't we just pay the $2.00?" Be careful you don't piss somebody off and wind up with unintended consequences.

A word of advice: don't get obsessed; it's a sure way to lose. Don't try to argue with a cop over how fast you were going; if you do, you lose. Don't try Mickey Mouse legal shenanigans like demanding to see the radar calibration; if you do you lose. Do you have a clean record? If so, try to show up early for court and speak NICELY with the officer. Tell him you have a clean record and you would certainly like to keep it that way; that you had your cruise control set on whatever in Canada and didn't realize you were going that fast. If you get a sympathetic officer and judge, you may get off with a warning or traffic school. Bottom line, don't make an ass out of yourself by going to into court trying to show up the officer -- especially as someone from out of the state. If you do, I can guarantee you will regret it. Good luck.

? for you...how do YOU know your speedo is calibrated correctly? I always get different readings from those "check your speed" automatic speed signs on the side of the road. he said you were 6 mph over what you say right?

I have been told by cops they usually give 5mph allowances b/c of that...so almost puts you in range.

I hate cops, i have been pulled over 22 times. i'm 26 years old. 23 of those times were from when i was 16 - 21. i only actually received 4 citations. 16 year old with a 350 hp z28....and a yamaha r6.

The ticket most likely won't hit your insurance. Will not be on your driving record since its out of state. Pay it and walk away, or see if you can take defensive driving or whatever they have there, or DEFERRED JUDIFICATION.

its a hassle to fight it. I have had friends that use one of the guys who advertise on billboards "taffic tickets?" they take a pile of tickets to the judge at once, the judge says i'm not trying all those, dismissed. You pay the lawyer 75 bucks. done.

now...Personally...I would write a letter to
1. police chief
2. Public Information Officer

file a formal complaint, admit off the top you were speeding due to your CC set at 66 mph. This officer might have lots of complaints on his belt...find out..so you can use this in court.

2nd...i did this and it worked..i wrote a letter to the judge telling him i was stupid, straight A student, clean record good kid. I was way over the limit to take defensive driving and he allowed me to take it without ever having to go to court...its an idea.

again...i'd just pay it and file a complaint. regardless of the complaints if an officer is getting lots of complaints...there is a reason for it.

I live in PLANO, TX...drive 45 in a 40...bam ticket.

GET A VALENTINE ONE...and a BLINDER (laser scrambler) my V1 tells me FAR AWAY as long as they are hitting other cars.

i'm done rambling, and i know my advice is definately NOT THE BEST...BUT I FELT LIKE WRITING A RESPONSE.

How the hell can you get pulled over 22 times unless you're catatonic when you're driving? Don't you pay any attention to anything around you? When I was a kid the object of the game was to not get caught driving like an idiot. It's a hell of a lot easier than having to weasel your way out of it.

? for you...how do YOU know your speedo is calibrated correctly? I always get different readings from those "check your speed" automatic speed signs on the side of the road. he said you were 6 mph over what you say right?

I have been told by cops they usually give 5mph allowances b/c of that...so almost puts you in range.

I hate cops, i have been pulled over 22 times. i'm 26 years old. 23 of those times were from when i was 16 - 21. i only actually received 4 citations. 16 year old with a 350 hp z28....and a yamaha r6.

The ticket most likely won't hit your insurance. Will not be on your driving record since its out of state. Pay it and walk away, or see if you can take defensive driving or whatever they have there, or DEFERRED JUDIFICATION.

its a hassle to fight it. I have had friends that use one of the guys who advertise on billboards "taffic tickets?" they take a pile of tickets to the judge at once, the judge says i'm not trying all those, dismissed. You pay the lawyer 75 bucks. done.

now...Personally...I would write a letter to
1. police chief
2. Public Information Officer

file a formal complaint, admit off the top you were speeding due to your CC set at 66 mph. This officer might have lots of complaints on his belt...find out..so you can use this in court.

2nd...i did this and it worked..i wrote a letter to the judge telling him i was stupid, straight A student, clean record good kid. I was way over the limit to take defensive driving and he allowed me to take it without ever having to go to court...its an idea.

again...i'd just pay it and file a complaint. regardless of the complaints if an officer is getting lots of complaints...there is a reason for it.

I live in PLANO, TX...drive 45 in a 40...bam ticket.

GET A VALENTINE ONE...and a BLINDER (laser scrambler) my V1 tells me FAR AWAY as long as they are hitting other cars.

i'm done rambling, and i know my advice is definately NOT THE BEST...BUT I FELT LIKE WRITING A RESPONSE.

In Ohio you would have lost your license and your insurance rates would be through the roof or cancelled with 22 offenses. Points here count for 7 years.