: My CTS 3.2 Engine is on the way!



Rixskg
04-16-06, 06:05 PM
Well , as u all may have read in earlier posts, my catera for no reason blowed up (Its a 97 btw) I have been reading and i asked some mechanics and the Cts 3.2 will work in our cateras , plus we will gain 20 Hp, You do have to use the old oil pan though.. the engine will be here in a couple days and i will let you guys know how installation goes.. Shouldnt be to bad of a job, the old motor came out pretty easy.

CadillacSTS42005
04-16-06, 06:42 PM
pics pics pics a MUST!!!

Rixskg
04-16-06, 09:22 PM
Will try my best :)

wamanning
04-17-06, 06:49 PM
it'll be interesting to see how it drives...i wonder if the engine's mapping/power-curve is similar enough to the original that the transmission shift-programming still works OK.

with $3/gallon of petrol now the norm here in the US, if someone had an idea for a drop-in tranny replacement w/ a 5th gear OD ratio then we'd really have something!


Will try my best :)

Rixskg
04-17-06, 10:04 PM
It will drive the same because i am using my intake plenium and original computer, they told me thats how it has to be or it wont work.. Also, that tranny idea is good, now i wonder if i can get a 5 speed auto from a cts to fit the Catera? :)

Kcryan
04-18-06, 07:36 PM
if somone puts a manual in one of these things ill be back driving the catera:) :) :)

Vesicant
04-18-06, 07:49 PM
I bet its all possible... just dont ask me about the how part :D :coffee:

+1

Rixskg
04-20-06, 01:29 AM
Well, so far heres how its going. The new engine Does not even use spark plug wires it has uhh i forget what u call it, coil something.. anyways now i have to use my coil pack , whatever they call it.. Also the oil pan, and i dont mean just the cover, has to be switched to the new engine.. The Ac compressor is diff also, am going to use mine, and also the alternator has to be changed out too, really no problem since you have all that stuff on your old engine Anywayz.
Oh and one more thing.. The intake plenium deff has to be changed as it uses the electronic throttling.. If i have time will post pics.

Thats all for now :)

Kcryan
04-20-06, 02:00 PM
Coil over plug or coil over cylinder is prob what you mean, IE you have 6 coils and 0 wires, good system if you can get it working, my Infinitis have it and its nice not to have to buy wires

wamanning
04-26-06, 11:46 AM
If i have time will post pics.

please take lots of pics and notes...i will gladly host the images for you!

walter

Rixskg
04-26-06, 02:04 PM
Sorry, didnt have time to take pics, but the engine is in and running Great smooth and powerfull.. you also have to take the long oil cartirdge type filter off and screw the reg oil filter thing on it cuz it wont fit in the car with that on there it hits something...

Tombo47
05-05-06, 07:01 PM
are you bullshitting us?

gixxer_751
05-08-06, 05:03 PM
+1................seeing is believing

Tombo47
05-11-06, 02:49 PM
notice how we dotn see anything

gixxer_751
05-12-06, 11:16 AM
was it a troll? Rixskg prove yourself!

wamanning
05-15-06, 01:59 PM
i spent some time w/ a GM engineer over the weekend and told him about this claim.

he was hightly doubtful about this being true. and that's putting it lightly. it's more like he thought it was a load of BS.

even if the various attached physical bits could be made to allow the CTS 3.2 to fit into a Catera and mate w/ the tranny, the degree of integration with the engine management is so high as to make such a claim ludicrous. engine mapping, transmission mapping, EPA compliance, gear ratios, vehicle weight, the list goes on and on.

the integration of the engine into the car is just too great to make such an engine swap possible w/o re-engineering so much of the catera that this is, again, simply ludicrous.

gixxer_751
05-15-06, 03:26 PM
good followup.........i new i smelled something

MyOpel
05-17-06, 10:55 PM
the integration of the engine into the car is just too great to make such an engine swap possible w/o re-engineering so much of the catera that this is, again, simply ludicrous.
What on the Catera would need to be re-engineered? If you use the stock ecu I wouldn't suspect the added .2L would cause problems, after all people have modified the 3L with stock ecu to produce hp gains in excess of 20hp.
Also are you forgetting the 2001 Opel Omega was available with the 3.2L

wamanning
05-18-06, 07:03 AM
What on the Catera would need to be re-engineered? If you use the stock ecu I wouldn't suspect the added .2L would cause problems, after all people have modified the 3L with stock ecu to produce hp gains in excess of 20hp.
Also are you forgetting the 2001 Opel Omega was available with the 3.2L

go ahead...take the plunge! I DARE YOU!

Tombo47
05-18-06, 10:06 AM
****in clowns

Kcryan
05-18-06, 04:36 PM
What on the Catera would need to be re-engineered? If you use the stock ecu I wouldn't suspect the added .2L would cause problems, after all people have modified the 3L with stock ecu to produce hp gains in excess of 20hp.
Also are you forgetting the 2001 Opel Omega was available with the 3.2L

the .2L is a tiny problem that can be fixed without too much trouble, the fact that that is by far not the only difference is the problem

MyOpel
05-19-06, 04:05 AM
the .2L is a tiny problem that can be fixed without too much trouble, the fact that that is by far not the only difference is the problem
Here are the differences that I know of, if there are any others please enlighten me.

CTS oil pan is one piece and will not fit over the x-member and steering linkages. Solution: use the Catera two piece oil pan and oil pump pickup.

CTS accessories are different/will not fit. Solution: use Catera accessories.

CTS oil filter boss would be interfering with steering box. Although I have not looked at this area in great detail I did notice that my oil filter canister is aluminum and the block is cast iron, I suspect that the aluminum canister would be removable from the Cat and installed on the CTS motor. If this is not possible one could simply custom fab a remote oil filter.

CTS has better flowing exhaust manifolds that unfortunately would not fit. Solution: use the Catera manifolds. Because the CTS got rid off the EGR system directly from each port I would grind down the humps inside each port of the Catera manifold. Or custom headers.

CTS electronics and speed density injection system. Solution: Just use the Catera electronics and mass air flow injection.

CTS intake and electronic throttle valve are the same as my 2001 so there is no concern here.

There are several people over in Europe that have already done this engine swap in their Calibras and vectras. It is my understanding that the C25SE, X25XE, Y26SE, X30XE(L81 Catera motor), Y32SE, Z32SE are all part of the same 54deg V6 family.

Fortunately my Catera 3.0L motor is still running strong so an engine swap will not be in the near future. When the time comes the 3.2L motor will not be my first consideration for the conversion, Id much rather have the LS2, LS1 with T56. That said, if I were to come across a low mileage CTS motor for less then 500 I would do this conversion.

wamanning
05-19-06, 09:58 AM
Fortunately my Catera 3.0L motor is still running strong so an engine swap will not be in the near future. When the time comes the 3.2L motor will not be my first consideration for the conversion, I’d much rather have the LS2, LS1 with T56. That said, if I were to come across a low mileage CTS motor for less then 500 I would do this conversion.


my sense is that this is not a simple drop-in installation that some random grease monkey @ autozone would be able to accomplish.

my contention is not that this is not possible, but that it's not a simple swap and is not for the faint of heart. it would take alot of experience, know-how, and work to pull off successfully.

Warez
05-20-06, 05:17 AM
go ahead...take the plunge! I DARE YOU!

What do you simply not comprehend about the fact that the 3.2 IS VIRTUALLY THE SAME ENGINE as our stock 3.0:thepan:



spent some time w/ a GM engineer over the weekend and told him about this claim.

he was hightly doubtful about this being true. and that's putting it lightly. it's more like he thought it was a load of BS.

even if the various attached physical bits could be made to allow the CTS 3.2 to fit into a Catera and mate w/ the tranny, the degree of integration with the engine management (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) is so high as to make such a claim ludicrous. engine mapping, transmission mapping, EPA compliance, gear ratios, vehicle weight, the list goes on and on.

the integration of the engine into the car is just too great to make such an engine swap possible w/o re-engineering so much of the catera that this is, again, simply ludicrous.

I highly doubt this individual was actually an engineer and if he was, he was obviosuly mistakenly thinking of the later CTS 2.8/3.6L global V6's which are completely different from the Opel 3.0/3.2 V6's the latter of which was in the early CTS.

Warez
05-20-06, 05:25 AM
my sense is that this is not a simple drop-in installation that some random grease monkey @ autozone would be able to accomplish.

my contention is not that this is not possible, but that it's not a simple swap and is not for the faint of heart. it would take alot of experience, know-how, and work to pull off successfully.

I have also looked into this swap as I have come across a very cheap CTS 3.2L

To make it work in the Catera is a VERY simple task and well within the reach of even a moderately skilled mechanic at autozone.

MyOpel explained all of the necessary changes very accurately, only a very few parts have to be swapped from the 3.0 to the 3.2, very rudimentary.

wamanning
05-20-06, 07:52 AM
I have also looked into this swap as I have come across a very cheap CTS 3.2L

To make it work in the Catera is a VERY simple task and well within the reach of even a moderately skilled mechanic at autozone.

MyOpel explained all of the necessary changes very accurately, only a very few parts have to be swapped from the 3.0 to the 3.2, very rudimentary.

:bigroll::yawn::alchi:

ok...go ahead...do the swap...right there in your driveway...with your craftsman tools...take pictures and document the work...let me know how simple it was! :thehand:

MyOpel
05-20-06, 09:56 AM
If someone is willing to supply the motor I'd be glad to do a complete write-up of the process and include many photos. Even though I have access to a full shop and Snap-On tools I'd be willing to do this swap in my driveway with a set of MasterCrap tools over a weekend, just to show that the average weekend warrior could do this (and so i can drink my Beer :thumbsup: ).

Warez
05-20-06, 05:52 PM
:bigroll::yawn::alchi:

ok...go ahead...do the swap...right there in your driveway...with your craftsman tools...take pictures and document the work...let me know how simple it was! :thehand:

You make it quite obvious that your technical knowledge is very limited at best and for you simply changing the oil would be a day long ordeal let alone pulling an engine.

Brosepe
05-20-06, 07:47 PM
From what I have researched this swap is easy to do. I spoke to a GM rep in the service department of my local dealership and he said the displacement difference is accomplished by stroking the 3.0 to 3.2. He told me otherwise it has the engines have the same bore. Maybe he would have to swap the accessories from the CTS engine to the Catera. I would assume having someone tune the ecu wouldn't hurt but it should run. I used to have a Mercury Cougar 4.6 V8 and a popular swap was to put in the 5.4 V8 from a truck or a van. The stock computer was the worked on both displacements since it would calibrate itself. I believe fuel and air intake would be his biggest worries aside from the choked off exhaust. If he used the CTS injectors I think the fuel part would be taken care of. Maybe there is a way to use the CTS injectors and internals to make a stroker kit for the Catera?

wamanning
05-20-06, 08:43 PM
From what I have researched this swap is easy to do. I spoke to a GM rep in the service department of my local dealership and he said the displacement difference is accomplished by stroking the 3.0 to 3.2. He told me otherwise it has the engines have the same bore. Maybe he would have to swap the accessories from the CTS engine to the Catera. I would assume having someone tune the ecu wouldn't hurt but it should run. I used to have a Mercury Cougar 4.6 V8 and a popular swap was to put in the 5.4 V8 from a truck or a van. The stock computer was the worked on both displacements since it would calibrate itself. I believe fuel and air intake would be his biggest worries aside from the choked off exhaust. If he used the CTS injectors I think the fuel part would be taken care of. Maybe there is a way to use the CTS injectors and internals to make a stroker kit for the Catera?

now here's a guy bringing some FACTS to the table. nice!

MyOpel
05-20-06, 09:31 PM
now here's a guy bringing some FACTS to the table. nice!
All the accurate facts have been on the table for some time now.
The 3.2 is a bored and stroked 3.0
3.0L Bore: 86mm Stroke: 85mm
3.2L Bore: 87.5mm Stroke: 88mm

Warez
05-20-06, 10:25 PM
now here's a guy bringing some FACTS to the table. nice!

WTF are are you talking about, are you dyslexic?? All of that has already be stated in this thread.

wamanning
05-21-06, 09:43 AM
you ladies are getting a little too worked up over this. go out for a drive w/ the windows down and sunroof open and enjoy your cateras/omegas today!

:)

MyOpel
05-21-06, 01:17 PM
I bring facts and useful information to this thread, where as you bring fictitious engineers and I Dare you comments. Who is the real Lady? :rolleyes:

http://media.putfile.com/Catera-170-to-200 (http://media.putfile.com/Catera-170-to-200)

wamanning
05-21-06, 01:48 PM
http://media.putfile.com/Catera-170-to-200 (http://media.putfile.com/Catera-170-to-200)

whoa, that's FAST...you're a real STUD! kinda like this little guy:

http://www.bradmesser.com/images2005a/squirrel_nuts.jpg

Vesicant
05-23-06, 07:35 PM
Think I've had enough of the bickering in this...

Want to actually discuss the variables (in a dignified manner) on doing a swap like this... start a new thread everyone.