: Experts please help



2dedge
04-15-06, 10:17 PM
I am beating my head against the wall :want: :rant2: :alchi:

I have built a competion rock buggy around a 99 northstar and a 700r4 trans which has a v6 pattern so it will bolt up.

I cam to the realization that the 99 harness and computer would not work so I found a wiring harness for a obd1 car from Dr. k's harnesses designed for a hot rod so basically it uses the engine computer only and the rest of the car is through a seperate fuse box ect.

So I got a throttle body from an obd 1 car and adapted it to the 99 manifold I got the evap sensor, an obd 1 computer, brake booster map sensor ect.

So I try to start it and I get spark but no fuel pulse to the injectors, ok the vats system must be kicking in. I buy another module from baker electronics and install it so the computer now gets the all good signal.

So I now try and start it and it will crank and cough slightly like it wants to run but nothing. Shoot some starting fluid in the throttle body and it will start and run briefly on the ether. I have reversed the wiring going to the cam sensor still nothing, unplugged the cam sensor nothing, swapped the crank sensors nothing, unplugged the crank sensors one at a time nothing. unplugged the throttle position sensor nothing. The throttle body stepper motor does click after removing power from the ignition. I have fuel getting in the cylnders, and returning to the tank.


To me it seems to be a fuel or ignition timing problem but I am clueless at this point and I need to get it running soon. It does have an obd port but I do not have access to a scanner and it does not have the climate controller so I can't read codes that way. Are there away differences in the obd1 and obd2 cam shaft pulse wheels, or cranks? I have read a post regarding 2000 and newer motors about the crank sensors being 6mm off. But doesn't the 2k and newer also have coils right on the plugs, mine does not which make me believe it an true 99 not and early 2k.


Help please

Thanks in advance trying to stay away from the nightmares and cost of standalone fuel systems

Thanks in advance,

Geoff

parts68
04-15-06, 10:31 PM
get some noids and hook up to the injectors,see if they are getting fire.

eldorado1
04-15-06, 10:31 PM
Well, if it runs on ether, then you know it's a fuel problem. Buy one of those noid lights (like $5 at autozone), and plug it into one of the injectors, see if it's firing. If it's not, it's likely you have wiring or VATS issues still.

eldorado1
04-15-06, 10:32 PM
ha! Jinx! :alchi:

2dedge
04-15-06, 10:34 PM
I have out a led on the injectors and they are pulsing just do not know for sure that they are opening at the right time.

WOTMODE
04-15-06, 10:40 PM
Don't forget the basics. What is your fuel pressure?

eldorado1
04-15-06, 10:42 PM
I have out a led on the injectors and they are pulsing just do not know for sure that they are opening at the right time.

it doesn't matter if they open at the right time, fuel is fuel. I'd second the fuel pressure check. Are you sure the fuel pump is priming?

2dedge
04-15-06, 10:46 PM
Not sure, but I am running a walboro gsl392 which is good for 255 lph and that is what chr fab suggests for the fiero swap guys. Stupid question but the large fuel line is the suppliy and the small fuel line is the return right. So the fuel pressure regulator is last in line before it returns to the tank right. And I do have fuel returning to the tank so the pump is primed the regulator works off vacum right if the motor is not running what is the defalt position?

Thanks for all the quick responses.

eldorado1
04-15-06, 10:47 PM
Not sure, but I am running a walboro gsl392 which is good for 255 lph and that is what chr fab suggests for the fiero swap guys. Stupid question but the large fuel line is the suppliy and the small fuel line is the return right. So the fuel pressure regulator is last in line before it returns to the tank right.

That's correct. I think the walbro is a gerotor design, so if you wired it up backwards, it won't give you any fuel pressure.

(and by priming, I mean, do you hear the fuel pump turn on for 2 seconds when you turn the key to get ready to start?)

WOTMODE
04-15-06, 10:48 PM
You are correct.

WOTMODE
04-15-06, 10:49 PM
Will it keep running as long as you spray carb. cleaner down the throttle body?

2dedge
04-15-06, 10:49 PM
But would it still pump? I am almost positive its right but I will double check in the morning.

Ranger
04-15-06, 10:49 PM
But doesn't the 2k and newer also have coils right on the plugs, mine does not which make me believe it an true 99 not and early 2k.

Yes, 2000+ is COP (Coil On Plug)

eldorado1
04-15-06, 10:51 PM
But would it still pump? I am almost positive its right but I will double check in the morning.

No it wouldn't... at least I don't think it would. It would be trying to pump backwards. A fuel pressure gauge would narrow down your problems.

2dedge
04-15-06, 10:51 PM
It seems to keep running but I was warned I would burn up the valves running it on starter fluid for to long. I have hot wired the pump directly and it makes no difference.

WOTMODE
04-15-06, 11:14 PM
If it keeps running you have a fuel delivery issue. Is that an "in tank" pump, or an externally mounted. If it is external, and you are trying to draw through the factory pump/sender assembly, that could be your issue.

Is your fuel filter installed correctly? Not all the time, but sometime a filter installed with the arrow pointing towards the tank/pump can cause some wierd stuff.

Also, if your tank is not vented, it will usually run for a while, but eventually draw enough vacuum in the tank that it cant draw fuel anymore.

parts68
04-16-06, 09:33 AM
I got a 95 that had set for quite some time.
It would hit once in a while but never run.
I figured that the fuel in the fuel rail and inside injectors
was gelled so I hooked up my fuel injection cleaner
thats a pressuized can to fuel rail,squirted some gas into the throttle
body and cranked it. It fired off and ran the can of cleaner thru the system,
with decarbonization and fresh plugs it purrs.

2dedge
04-17-06, 12:55 PM
What should the fuel pressure be I am guessing 50/60 lbs and does anyone have any thoughts on a cleaner I can pump through the bleed port since the car will not run on its fuel supply so in the tank cleaners are not an option.

Geoff

eldorado1
04-17-06, 02:14 PM
You should see 40psi at idle, if you disconnect the vacuum hose, you should see 45psi. On the prime before a crank, you should see a steady 40psi or so.

parts68
04-17-06, 02:46 PM
Anything you introduce into system via the test port(shrader valve on fuel rail)
will go right out the fuel return line if the line is not blocked off.
Pinch the line where it turns into rubber(about a 2 inch piece in return for this reason).You will need to pull the fuse for fuel pump also.

2dedge
04-17-06, 09:57 PM
Alright the progress from tonight, Fuel pressure is fine I an sitting at 50/55 lb while cranking, still have good spark. So I decided to pull the injectors and activate them low and behold 1 of the 8 will fire and flow the other seven are stuck closed!!!!!!!!! So now the question is can I clean them myself? What other vehicles can I swap them out of?

eldorado1
04-17-06, 10:24 PM
You can try using an ultrasonic jewlery cleaner with some fuel injector cleaner... Make SURE it is the cleaner made for machines. i.e. not some bottle you pick up at walmart. you'll probably have to get it at napa.

Your fuel pressure is a little high. Too high of a fuel pressure will hold injectors closed. I think the northstar injectors are somewhere around 60-65psi though.

2dedge
04-17-06, 10:40 PM
Thanks I might try and find some, does any one know what I can grab injectors out of that will work with our motors?

2dedge
04-19-06, 08:30 AM
:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: IT RUNS IT RUNS IT REALLY REALLY RUNS!!!!!!!:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

Well I swapped injectors last night to the only thing I could come up with which were some 32lb lt1 injectors and it fired right off. Now I just need to find some good injectors the lt1's were borrowed and they are way fat I think 32lbs would be way to rich. I also need to find out how to set the throttle position with out having the climate controller.

zonie77
04-21-06, 01:37 PM
The computer will try to pulse the injectors based on the O2 sensors. They probably will be OK in some rpm/load ranges, too rich in others. Definitely change them asap.

I think someone said the Mustang inj work. You can get the 24lb inj for about $200 a set new. Look in Muscle Mustang or 5.0 magazines for ads.

2dedge
04-22-06, 09:09 PM
just found out the injectors were actually msd 36's new it was rich

I have a set of mustang 24 lbs on the way

parts68
04-23-06, 12:05 AM
Ill trade some correct N* ones for those 36s