Hello to all and thanks in advance for any imput! I have just purchased my first Cadillac. It is a 2000 Cadillac Deville with the 4T80E transmission. I thought that it drove perfect, but I was monitoring the fuel mileage, and it was averaging 20 mpg highway. I had owned a Lincoln Town Car and it averaged 26 mpg, so I was not impressed with the fuel mileage. I was driving the car on the highway and a service transmission message came up on the message center. The car was not driving any different, but I had it scanned and there was no transmission codes stored in the computer. A day or two later, I switched to tachometer, and the rpms at 70 - 72 mph were over 3000 rpm! So, I switched the shifter into "D" , and there was no change in rpm. So, it appears that the transmission is not shifting into 4th gear.

Has anyone ever experienced this? The car was serviced at the Cadillac dealer 6000 miles ago for the service transmission light, and they serviced the transmission, but they only dropped the bottom pan and cleaned the screen. The lock up torque converter seems to be working properly and the shifts are nice and smooth. The fluid is clean and not burned. I took it to a local transmission shop, and they say that it is probably a pressure issue, and they want to charge big bucks to remove the transmission and fix the problem.

However, it seems to me that with no other problems, that it just acts like nothing is " telling " the transmission to shift into 4th gear. Maybe a solenoid or a speed sensor? I have driven the car on the highway up to the top speed limiter kicked in ( 113mph ) and there seems to be no other issues with the drivetrain, no vibration or noise, or anything.

I drove a 2001 Seville STS, and the rpm's are substantially lower at highway speeds than my Deville. Is the final drive ratio any different?

The only code in the pcm was for the Mass Air Sensor, which one tech told me may have something to do with it, but I replaced it today with no change.

Any ideas? Please help!

Thanks Again

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the miles. The car has 86,000 miles and the original owner was 87 years old.

Sounds like a shift solenoid. No need to drop the trans nor spend thousands for a rebuild incase that is what you will be told. At 70 MPH you should be turning 1950 RPM.

Thanks for the reply. One of the shops that I spoke with said that they had problems with the shift solenoids breaking or cracking. He also said that it may not throw a code if the solenoid is cracked and that there may not be ant other shift problems; but he did say that if it actually had broken, tat there probably would be other issues. I feel hopeful at least that it was it might be. Knowing that the car was driven easy and that the transmission is normally a robust unit, I hope this is the case.

Yes, they do crack, but I have never heard of anyone having any other problem after they chnged them. There is a replacement kit that comes with mounting brackets to prevent it from happening again.

i just had that with my 96 deville and had the shift solenoid changed and it is fine

Thanks for your replies. I was thinking that the shift solenoids were the problem, but the guy at the transmission shop wanted to pull the transmission and fix the problem, which he said was a seal,o-ring, or something similiar. He said that he would "take care of me" and do it for 750.00........I told him that twas alot of money for me and that I thought that it was something other than an internal problem. I have been unable to get the valve kit GM part # 24211355 since it is a Saturday. I believe that is the correct part # for the solenoids and the bracket, but they are calling it a valve kit.

okay......now I am worried! I ordered and received the above part number, but after the mechanic removed the pan and the valve body, one of the two solenoids is different. The plug end on one of them is different than the other, and in the valve kit, both are the same. So, now the are ordering a different part number, so I will still have to wait.

I was not aware that the valve body had to be removed from the transmission, and when I went to look at it, there were parts everywhere! I just assumed that the solenoids just plugged in, so to speak.

Does anyone know for sure if the valve body had to be removed? While looking at the parts, there was a flat rubber washer that was small in diameter, that was hard, brittle and broken. I asked the mechanic if he knew were it went and he said no! but it appears that it indeed came from the transmission. Any idea what it is or where it goes? if so, it would appear to me that a broken seal or o-ring might have caused the problem in the first place. Do any of you all have a diagram of the valve body that you can scan and post or fax me? The fax number is 865-482-7518. Please if faxed put to the attention of Bill Owens. Any and all help is appreciated!

Yes, the valve body does indeed have to be removed to access the solenoids.

Well, the car is is down....The valve kit was ordered using the vin number, but it was the wrong kit. One solenoid was the same as the one in the kit, but the other was different. So, the dealer ordered a different part number again based on the vin, and it was different also. The solenoid that is supplied with both kits has the same connecter for both solenoids, but one of mine has a different style connector. After taking the old solenoid in to the dealer they tell me that GM made some changes and updtes in the 2000 model and up and that they have now ordered the right part. I am still somewhat skeptical as I have heard that before.........Has anyone ever experienced this while replacing the solenoids? I have my fingers crossed that this will be the right part....and that the solenoids will even fix the problem. Some people are saying that if the solenoids are bad you will have a code, but I do not. Thanks for all imput in advance.

Next in the seemingly never ending saga of My1stCadillac! Tiday is Monday, six days after originally ordering the parts and they told me today that they were picking up the right parts ( the 3rd time that they were ordered ). They also told me that I would be back on the road today, but they closed at 5:00pm and no car, no call, no nothing! I sure hope that once they finally get the solenoids in, that it fixes the problem. Is it better than a fifty- fifty chance. Boy I sure hope so.....I never had this issue with the Town Car!

I'd say it is waaay better than a 50/50 chance that it will fix the problem.

Okay...The solenoids are finally in, at a total cost of 250.00! But, unfortunately, the transmission is still doing the same thing! I was wrong about what it was doing. It is taking 4th gear, but the torque converter is not locking up...hence the rpm's in 4th being higher than the others that I have driven. So, now the transmission most likely has to come out and possibly the torque converter replaced. Or, could it possibly be a torque converter solenoid or something else that is electronic? They are talking like 750.00 in labor for the torque converter; so I hope that it is something else. Would it be unusual for the torque converter to be doing this at 80k ?
Thanks in advance for your response.

Ah, that's another story. Likely the solenoid, but you are correct, the trans has to come out. On the other hand, you caould just leave it as is. The RPM will be slightly higher as you have noticed due to minor slippage and your fuel milage will suffer by a MPG or so.

Thanks for your reply. Is the solenoid located in the side pan or in the bottom pan? Will they be able to tell if it is the solenoid with the scanner? And lastly, what would a fair price be to replace the solenoid or the converter? I just do not want to believe that the converter is bad with 80k driven by a 87 year old man......I am a police officer and I abusr Crown Victoria's without any trans repairs until well over 100k.

I have no idea about prices. I believe the solenoid is in the side cover but I could be wrong. I think a scanner would probably be able to diagnose it but again I am not positive.

Isn't it odd that no codes have been thrown for A BAD TC?

Yeah....I think that the transmission issue is odd period for a relatively low mileage vehicle. Now the car is at a dufferent shop, and get this, they say that the torque converter IS locking up, but it is not going into 4th gear! What a nightmare! It seems that on the scanner it is calling for 4th gear, and saying that it is in 4th gear, but it is actually in 3rd! It seems as if Murphy's Law definitely applies to me! Now, they are going to drive the car again with the scanner attached and try and figure out the problem. I certainly hope that other Cadillac owners do not have such issues. It seems like a well engineered car otherwise. Does anyone out there have experience with similiar issues? I have been dealing with this for 2 weeks and I just want the car to function as it should. On the lighter side, the gas mileage currently is just over 20mpg, so with the addition of 4th gear and/or lock up, the mileage should be great!

well after reading that it sounds like a computer problem.

I'm really considering selling the wifes '98 Deville after reading about all the crap these cars dish out. Mine has 87k miles and it seems as though big headaches are coming my way. So many have told me that my '97 S class Benz was going to be a POS but it gives me no problems whatsoever. The Caddy on the other hand seems like it was put together by monkeys with access to real cheap materials, its literally seems to be falling apart just by looking at it the wrong way. Caddy definately dont build them like they used to.

I'm really considering selling the wifes '98 Deville after reading about all the crap these cars dish out. Mine has 87k miles and it seems as though big headaches are coming my way. So many have told me that my '97 S class Benz was going to be a POS but it gives me no problems whatsoever. The Caddy on the other hand seems like it was put together by monkeys with access to real cheap materials, its literally seems to be falling apart just by looking at it the wrong way. Caddy definately dont build them like they used to.
I sold my '97 Deville with 107K on it and never had any problems with it. Remember, only people with problems come here looking for help. The millions without problems don't stop by to say that their cars are trouble free.

I second that! I will get the problem fixed and enjoy the car.While checking on the car after purchasing it, it turns out that the seller knew about the issue, because he took it to a transmission shop in the city where I am a police officer! He just neglected to tell me about it! I still like the car I am am hoping that it will be trouble free after it is fixed. I have driven a Cadillac that was traded in at 335,000 miles that still drove surprisingly well. I will let everyone know what ultimately tell everyone what fixes the issue if they should have simialar problems. Thanks to everyone for there imput1 I will just have to wait for the new wheels and tires.....

the transmissions in this cars has been refered to some as "bullet" proof. Who's knows what happened but maybe that 87 year old had a lead foot grandson who borrowed the car from time to time.

Well.....The latest news for my transmission issue is the shop called and said that after driving it with the scanner attached, there are no reportable issues, so now they are taking the transmission out to find out what the problem is. I will report (hopefully today) what I find out.

I have had alot of sh_t go wrong with my car.(96 deville). But you will have that with any used car. The thing to be is here writing and reading up on the cars so you can do prevenative maintanance. You can sell your car but you will always have to deal with the maintanance. What do you think would be cheaper, fixing your caddy or the benz? See you at the bank taking money out. Have fun with it...

Okay....The latest update! The transmission is out and I just got back from looking at it. the overdrive drum is burnt and blue in color and the overdrive clutch is burnt up. So, with the amount of labor to remove and replace the transmission, they are doing a complete rebuild with all electronic switchs, ne w clutchs, bands ,etc; as well as replacing the front mount and replacing a heater hose that is leaking and otherwise hard to get to. This is a shop that has done lots of work for me over the years, as well as fixing our police cars and doing the work on used cars at several car dealerships that I have managed. He says that he is taking care of me and that it would be a total of 1250.00 or less. Is this a good price or a average price. I get our police cars done for anywhere from 650.00 to 1050.00, so it seems to be more expensive. I bought the car because I had always liked them, I did not really need it, as I an car poor, so to speak. Well, now I will just be poor......Thanks for your replies and I will update in the next few days when I get the car back.;

Okay....I just got a call from the transmission shop and the car is supposed to be fixed. The cost for the reruild of the transmission, with the speed sensors and other related switchs or solenoids, plus a new motor mount and the heater hose; was 1350.00! This was plus the 250.00 parts and labor for the shift solenoids and and approx. 120.00 for the mass airflow meter. So, now I have spent 1,720.00 on the car prior to making the first payment! What a deal! I certainly hope that these issues being fixed may hopefully allow many many trouble free miles with this car.....Well, at least after I replace the warped brake rotors.........I do not know what is wrong with me, I thought that 80,000 miles was relatively low miles on a Cadillac..!

well something happened sometime in the cars life to burn up that overdrive. Things like that just don't happen out of blue, I'm sure you'll have many more miles to go on it, and certainly wont have many more problems like this...unless maintenance was neglected in its life.

Actually, The car has a lot of the service records with it. It was serviced at the Cadillac Dealership, even the trans service. That was around 75,000 miles. I do know that for the last couple of years the car had really short and low speed trips, maybe constantly shifting from 3 to 4? Upon checking the car fax, it was a rental car for the first 20,000 miles or so of it's life. Maybe thats it. Or, possibly there was an electronic switch or solenoid issue and that was the problem. At any rate, I will be going to pick up the car today. I hope that this is the last of the major issues on this car. I can't help but think how much our Crown Victorian police cars get abused, and we have never replaced or rebuilt a tranny until 128,000 or better....

It would be interesting to find out other people's experience who have bought off-rental Caddies. My dealer sells quite a few and the Used Car Manager says people who rent Caddies don't beat them up or do dumb off-road stuff like they do with other cars.

For myself, I found that's true. I've done some things to a rental I wouldn't do to my own car, but whenever I've rented a Caddy I have been a true gentleman with it...

Just to make you feel a bit better (I hope), well, your price for the transmission work sounds average to lower than average to me (I mean better side of being average). I would not call that price a bargain, but you know no one can do a good work for cheap price. So, overall, it sounds like they do good work there.

Well, I picked up the car today, and it seems to be "right". The total price was 1324.87, including a new converter,a vacume switch, the speed sensor(s), and a complete overhaul; as well as the heater hose (looked like a metal tube) and a new motor front mount. He told me that wholesale was usually 1,500 and retail was 1750, for what all was done. The car is extra nice, with no wear on anything inside, even the radio and hvac controls. The carpet and the leated are perfect as well. So now, I have 9700.00 in a nice Deville, with lots of new parts! So, hopefully, I will enjoy it! I was getting slightly over 20mpg without 4th gear, so I expect 25 to 26 with the overdrive. I will let you know! Thanks for your imput..

UPDATE: The car drives great! Now, for the really good news. The average mpg on the same combined city/highway cycle that I got an average of 20.5mpg has went to 28.3 mpg! I guess with an operable lock up converter, a working 4th gear, and a new mass airflow meter, that it really made a difference! Let's do the math....I average 80 miles daily,with a difference of almost 8mpg, I will use 1.05 gallons of fuel a day; so I will save 2.94 a day at our local fuel prices. The total spent on all repairs to get the car right was 1770.00, so it will only take me 602 days to get a return on my investment!
But, it does drive great......

And feeling good by driving a Cadillac in a perfect shape... priceless!
Enjoy!

a diamond in the rough

To My1stCadillac, I'm having the same problem with my 2000 Deville. The Cadillac dealer wants to replace the entire trans for about 4K. So I took it to my local AAMCO. They road tested it with their computer hooked up and it showed everything was good. So they're at a loss why it's tacing at over 3000 at 65 mph and why I'm averaging 17 mpg. I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. No way I'm gonna pay Cadillac 4 grand for a new trans. And I'm not getting a real good comfort level with the guys over at AAMCO. I live in Annapolis, Maryland. Anyone know a real good reputable tranny shop in the area? Any other suggestions would be appreciated also.

anyone other than aamco lol, last time i called them with a car not shifting right, they wanted to flush it!

Yea. I've learned my lesson about AAMCO. It was the first time I actually brought any of my cars there, but I had to start some place. I guess I'll just drive it as is for now and search the area for a worthy mechanic (having root canal would be easier). Thanks.

I would not take any car to AAMCO, I had a 79 regal that was not shifting right and I took it to AAMCO and right away they said I need a new trans. They wanted $600.00. I told them no thanks and took it to a trans. place were they service state trooper police cars. And all they did was put in a new filter and new trans oil for $70.00 and it did the trick. I could not believe how AAMCO almost suckered me into a new trans.

David

My father has owned about 10 Cadillacs, and I am 26 yrs old and on my second one. $1200 for a rebuilt Deville Tranny is actually a decent price. In all honesty, if I had an older Deville that needed a tranny and it only costed $1200 I would feel comfortable with that. I know of others that have spent much much more... (Notice I wrote "much" twice!).

Also, please keep in mind that a rear wheel drive Crown Vic and a Town Car will indeed be cheaper to fix and may prove to be more durable. Generally, full size American rear wheel drive cars are more durable than front wheel drives. 93-96 Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams fit this category, right along with Towncars. Broughams can go 200K before tranny service is needed. Years ago, my father purchased a Fleetwood Brougham with 40K miles and put another 200K miles on it. At 240K miles, the engine started ticking and knocking a little, but it still actually drove fine. He had the motor rebuilt for like $1100. During this same time, with about 240K miles the transmission started to slip a little. He replaced that for about $650. That car was a TANK! Eventually sold it to my grandfather and he drove it until he passed away.

Front wheel drive Caddys have alluminum motors and front ends. Cast iron truck based engines and transmissions will indeed probably last longer. Hell, you can buy a Chevy Truck 350 tranny for about $400 bucks, and the engine wouldn't cost too much more than that either.

Enjoy your Caddy. Drive it and enjoy it. Also, the 2000 and newer devilles prove to be more durable. You could have purchased a 2000-2001 Deville with 80K miles for $9500. I think you have done the right thing and although I realize that you have spent a lot of money, your Caddy should reward you now with many years of good service.

ENJOY!

DTS_BOI

90% of shops like aamco, merlins, fair muffler, and alot of dealers have base pay mechanics that receive comission on their total ticket price, 99% os said shops like that, the head honcho doesnt look at the car period, he takes the techs word for it, alot of techs try to use this to sucker people into bigger jobs, meaning more money for them, i know this because i used to work for a shop, wont ever do that again, my wrenches are purley for pleasure now :)
moral of the story here? NEVER take your car to a shop and agree right away, get a second opinion, have make the tech show whats wrong and explain it, and repair accordingly, if u ask to see the damage, they HAVE to show it to u, i once brought my other car (2003 eclipse) in for a tune up cuz it was cold and i was lazy, they tried to charge me to reset my choke and about 16 other things that dissapeared with carburetors lol :P

I have the exact probllem with my deville 2000 DTS, did you ever find out what the problem was with yours. Thanks