: Interesting plans...



ShadowLvr400
03-23-06, 11:51 AM
Everyone probably knows that I plan on one day doing an engine swap in my big Fleetwood. However I'd been tossing around a few ideas, from blown 383, to blown 454 or even old 500 done up. Well, another option has come to mind. Do something very strange, and go deisel. How about an engine with 325 horse ad 610 ft lbs of torque to start? Something that can be converted to an alternate fuel just by dumping it in the tank? That's right, I'm referring to one of the big deisels out right now. I know, the rumbling, the exhaust smell, etc. But, working at a restaurant, I have access to the fryer oil that we change EVERY NIGHT. That's 10 gallons a night, that with the following system, can be made into a perfectly usable bio fuel. There's a number of performance parts out for the deisels lately, the mileage would be better seeing as I'd have a motor that gets my usual mileage moving a vehicle in the 6k lbs range, dropping 1500 lbs. Plus, with 350 odd horse and 600 ft lbs... That could be enjoyable to drive. Put a 5 or 6 spd auto, and possibly leave my 3.42's in the rear... It'd probably move pretty well. I'd have to beef up the suension some to take the extra weight, but making fuel at home could be very very nice. Heck, get my girl into a diesel too, and viola.


http://dieselpowermag.com/tech/general/0603dp_biodiesel/
http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/products/fuelmeister.asp

ShadowLvr400
03-23-06, 11:53 AM
Oh, if I went diesel, it'd be the Cummins 5.9L I6 Dodge uses. Not the 6.5 V8 Duramax in GM. I've seen how insanely durable the Cummins is, and like it.

caddycruiser
03-23-06, 11:54 AM
That would actually be very unique...and quite the monster. Definately not cheap, but would it ever be a strong beast:thumbsup:

ShadowLvr400
03-23-06, 12:03 PM
Though looking, the Duramax package might be much more compact than the Cummins. That I6 is tall... The V8 is more compact it seems. And as for the not cheap, probably not, but you get an enine that you pay nickels to gas up, (I think one article said you'd pay about 70 cents a gallon to make it) and with gas climbing back towards $3.... You also have an engine that is built to last... The rest of the car would drop off first. However, I can't find anyone that sells crate motors hardly. Might junkyard hunt. :)

caddycruiser
03-23-06, 12:58 PM
Yeah, and though neither would be easy, I think the Duramax might be quite a bit easier (well, relatively...) to transplant into this kind of car than a Cummins would. That is, if it really is even possible.

Katshot
03-23-06, 01:32 PM
Interesting idea but these days, diesel is more than premium unleaded so the price and availability of the fuel isn't really a plus. I love the Cummins 5.9 too but like you said, packaging would probably turn out to be impossible, let alone trying to put that much weight on the front end of a Cadillac. The bio-fuel (vegetable oil) is a cool idea. I've seen a few cars that had been converted to use it and it "seems" to be a viable alternative, especially if you have a ready source for the fuel. I'm not sure what's involved in the conversion though.

elk9300`
03-23-06, 01:54 PM
The only thing I would look into first is your state's emission regs.

I would love to do a bio diesel engine on an HT4100, but my part of state (PA) has emissions for gasoline powered vehicles (visual check for 1995 and older and sniffer and visual for 96 + -OBDII) Diesels are exempt. I would not be allowed to convert (even if I ran biodiesel) a gas to "diesel" if I tried.

I looked into a diesel powered full sizer from the 80's to convert to gas (then I can put any kind of motor in, gas, smogged or unsmogged, or another diesel) but I found a nice 85 FWB with the 4100 boat anchor that I will convert to a big block with FI and OD, keeping all of the emissions stuff intact for the visual test.

ShadowLvr400
03-23-06, 02:54 PM
FL isnt an emissions law state. As for the biodiesel, you don't have to convert the motor. No changes are needed. Brew it up, and dump it directly into your tank. Only challenges come in colder climates.

elk9300`
03-23-06, 08:02 PM
Up until about 2 yrs ago, my part of the state did not require emissions....now they require it along with the annual inspection. Hopefully your state doesn't change it for your sake.

There are two "bio-diesel" firms "greasecar.com" and one that was on the show "Trucks" on Spike TV (I can't recall the name)

Greasecar has some kind of mod to the vehicle that allows you to pour the oil straight in. whereas the one on the show "Trucks" required some kind of titration (you essentially are the refinery) set up.

AS much as I like the Cummins, the Duramax would probably fit better due to its V8 config.

Adam
03-23-06, 10:00 PM
why not do an LT4 conversion?

ShadowLvr400
03-23-06, 10:28 PM
Convert an LT4 into a diesel?

(The one on trucks is Fuel Meister.)

N0DIH
03-23-06, 11:33 PM
Problems with diesels, they are heavy, REALLY heavy compared to a gas motor, like on the order of 1000 lbs, likely a bit more, and they take a heavy trans too. And no, the 7.5" rear won't survive long at all.

And the diesels have a pathetic low rpm range. Like 3500 rpm redline. So you need your 2.28 gears and a OD.

It is a great idea, but can be very costly and you will need some serious front suspension mods to handle the weight.

For a little more reasonable diesel, a 6.5L Turbo Diesel might be a good choice, not well respected in the diesel community, but still a decent engine if you get a good one (try to ignore the problems with crankshafts breaking at random and problematic injector pumps)...

The 7.3L Ferd TD is a great one, and massive amounts of torque are the order of the day, and tons more with tuning.

96Fleetwood
03-23-06, 11:40 PM
I like your blown 454 idea better.. save the gas pump pinching for the hybrids and the like.

N0DIH
03-23-06, 11:59 PM
Hey, try this on for size, as 96Fleetwood said, blown 454, but design it to run on E85 and post a slew of 'green' bumper stickers on and rag on people for not "saving the environment" by not running E85! Which you are sucking down E85, making 600+ hp!

Night Wolf
03-24-06, 01:59 AM
Oh, if I went diesel, it'd be the Cummins 5.9L I6 Dodge uses. Not the 6.5 V8 Duramax in GM. I've seen how insanely durable the Cummins is, and like it.

HA!

I was *JUST* going to say... 5.9L I6 from a RAM baby!

The RAM work truck has that... and a 5spd manual... DAMN the power is crazy... and the sound... man, I can listen to that thing just idle all day... and riding in it is even more of a blast... the sheer sound of a semi, the turbo... gosh darn its a freakin sweet truck!

Heres the deal... that I6... is HUGE... it is physically larger then your LT1 (I am pretty sure of) its tall too.... but one thing that may put a limit to the swap...

the LT1 weighs what? 400lbs?

The 5.9L I6 weighs about 1,100lbs.

Yeah, over half a ton of engine right there... the 3/4ton+ RAM can support it... but a Fleetwood... well, I am sure it *could* but it'll kill handling, and you'd need some beefy front suspension.

But, by simplying chipping the Cummins, you've got like 50hp and 70 ft-lbs torque more... upgrade to bigger injectors, a nice Banks turbo, and a better injector pump.... hot damn you've just doubled the power on the damn thing.

Anyway, its a freakin beastly engine, and the RAM is an equally sweet truck, so its a nice pair... I have been thinking about a 2nd gen CTD RAM next.... I'd definitly rock it.

It would be a really hard swap, but really cool too.... I really don't know if I would go thru with it though....

perhaps an Olds 350 diesel like used from '79-'83ish would be good... the problem with them was a huge lack of power.... they did not run turbo.... I bet a nice rebuild on one of those with a nice turbo and whatnot... and you could be making some nice power from a more easy to adapt package....

Ah well.... stripped down, basic work truck... but the Cummins turbo diesel and 5psd manual made this one hell of a sweet truck :).

http://inoventionseast.com/FL/PDR_0346.JPG

What makes the 5.9 I6 Cummins so sweet, is that it is the only medium-duty engine in a light-duty truck. Both the Powerstroke and Duramax are light-duty engines..... The same 5.9 I6 is used in those Freightliner vans with a rating of something to the tune of 60,000lbs...... the engine is made for pure work.

One thing to stay away from, is a 5.9 I6 with the "53" block..... why? Go to Google and type Cummins 53 and read up an all the info you'd like....

Night Wolf
03-24-06, 02:00 AM
Up until about 2 yrs ago, my part of the state did not require emissions....now they require it along with the annual inspection. Hopefully your state doesn't change it for your sake.

There are two "bio-diesel" firms "greasecar.com" and one that was on the show "Trucks" on Spike TV (I can't recall the name)

Greasecar has some kind of mod to the vehicle that allows you to pour the oil straight in. whereas the one on the show "Trucks" required some kind of titration (you essentially are the refinery) set up.

AS much as I like the Cummins, the Duramax would probably fit better due to its V8 config.

greasecar.com....

a guy at my school has a MKIII Jetta, TDI 5spd... and he converted it to run on veggie oil, and has a sticker on it with greasecar.com.....

its quite neat... sounds different then a regular TDI... but its cool...

Night Wolf
03-24-06, 02:06 AM
Problems with diesels, they are heavy, REALLY heavy compared to a gas motor, like on the order of 1000 lbs, likely a bit more, and they take a heavy trans too. And no, the 7.5" rear won't survive long at all.

And the diesels have a pathetic low rpm range. Like 3500 rpm redline. So you need your 2.28 gears and a OD.

It is a great idea, but can be very costly and you will need some serious front suspension mods to handle the weight.

For a little more reasonable diesel, a 6.5L Turbo Diesel might be a good choice, not well respected in the diesel community, but still a decent engine if you get a good one (try to ignore the problems with crankshafts breaking at random and problematic injector pumps)...

The 7.3L Ferd TD is a great one, and massive amounts of torque are the order of the day, and tons more with tuning.

The 7.3 is Fords best diesel for their pickups.... its a good engine... the new 6.0 is really powerful, and really fast.. but they are not reliable at all....

Still, I'd go with a nicely built, NA 500.... forget a Chevy motor with a blower :)..... go Big block Cad....

davesdeville
03-24-06, 05:54 AM
The LT1 with accessories has got to weigh a lot more than 400lbs, seeing how an all aluminum northstar is a bit over 400.

Anyway I would go with a 500. Run 13:1 compression, cam, headers, and 2 Impco 450 propane carbs. That would do 450hp and damn near 600ft.lbs. Propane around here is roughly 60% of the cost of gas, so if you don't work at a restaurant it's a very viable alternative fuel. There are KOA's across the country with propane thanks to the recreational vehicle crowd, so I'd say availability is better than it would be with E85. Or go crazy and do a 9:1 twin turbo 500 drawing through 4 450s around 20-25psi, that'd put down some decent power.

ShadowLvr400
03-24-06, 10:46 PM
Another diesel option might be to look at some of the Euro diesels... Audi's showing off at Le Mans, Benz has their 3.2 has 201 horse at 4200, 369 ft lbs at 1800. Could be another option. Especially Benz's will likely see activity in Dodge's stuff. The diesel Chrys 300 is already out across the pond.