: Keep internal combustion because.......



Ralph
03-18-03, 12:00 AM
Cadillac can be saved in the future by continued purchasing of them. Buy genuine Cadillac parts, not Uncle John's Discount part. Do not give in to smaller cars, or we will all be driving electric cars in 10 years. If we did all drive ecectrics to save gas, THEY WOULD JUST RAISE THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY.:banghead:

kcnewell
03-18-03, 12:14 AM
Here, Here!! I totally agree...The libs will bury us in their B.S. about whatever pet crisis they're promoting to fleece us out of our money!

PONCHO
04-02-03, 09:58 AM
I dont think we have to worry about the conventional engine going away. People talk about alternative ways to power vehicles but I dont see them coming to any of our dealerships in the next 15-20 years.

Astronomer
04-02-03, 03:52 PM
Who wants to drive a hybrid that gets 60 miles to a gallon if you have to give up comfort, safety, your wallet (they ain't cheap) when that SUV right next to me is going to cancel out all my however well intentioned environmental savings in about 2.2 tanks of gas?

elwesso
04-02-03, 07:26 PM
I dont even think that there will be any change within the next 30 years, changing to electric or fuel cells. And a lot of people will refuse to get rid of their cars with an ICE. I wont.....

They should just invent a mega air filter!!

Ralph
04-03-03, 12:10 AM
I agree, I read somewhere that the oil companies want to get about 20 more years out of the petrolium industry. The oil companies are too powerful to just fold-in to hydrogen, electric cars, etc. Gee, why did it take so long for you guys to respond to this great, awsome thread? LOL.

PONCHO
04-03-03, 11:34 AM
Did you hear on the news that the gov. is going to mandate that SUV's get an average of 1-1.5 mpg more than currently acceptable. I saw that on the news last night. I am not sure but think it goes into effect next year.

Ralph
04-03-03, 11:47 PM
I know that all cars must pass a certain amount of gas mileage tests or WE pay a gas guzzler tax. In Canada I think that tax is 2,000 per vehicle, and they work it into the price.

Jinx
04-04-03, 12:04 AM
Not to be overly provincial, but as an American I say drop automotive CAFE to 24mpg... and classify anything with more than a rubber-mat floor, two vinyl seats and an AM radio as the passenger vehicle that it is. That we have different safety standards, emissions standards, and fuel economy standards for passenger vehicles masquerading as trucks is criminal, and any discussion of changing car standards while this loophole exists is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Eco-nuts can jabber all they want about the evils of the internal combustion engine, but until there's a functioning alternative that doesn't simply suck (more) juice upstream, they need to siddown and shaddup.

The harsh reality is that no new powerplant is going anywhere without an energy distribution network. Here in America we have two -- petroleum distillates and electricity, and the electricity network simply doesn't have the capacity or the end-node throughput to satisfy vehicular energy needs. Indeed, out here on the Left Coast electricity has only recently been raised above joke status.

.Jinx

Ralph
04-04-03, 01:43 AM
Yea, and the electric cars will have lots of power, and range---------NOT. I heard about the power shortage in Calif. Is it because of overpopulation, or lack of resources, or ?

kcnewell
04-04-03, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by Ralph
Yea, and the electric cars will have lots of power, and range---------NOT. I heard about the power shortage in Calif. Is it because of overpopulation, or lack of resources, or ?


His Name is Gray Davis!

Ralph
04-06-03, 03:15 AM
Is he your Goveneor? I heard something about the power companies going private, and then they could only charge so much from the citizens. But then there was not enough for the overhead on the companies? And therefore a power shortage.

Jinx
04-06-03, 01:26 PM
The power crisis? The people demanded it. We forced the public utility to allow competitors to sell energy directly to consumers -- through the utility's network, of course -- and surprise, the industry destabilized. Then politicians fixed it.

But California power crisis aside, the North American power grid is not equipped and cannot easily scale to replace the gasoline distribution network. Compared to gasoline, batteries suck as a portable storage medium.

.Jinx

Chuck C
04-06-03, 03:10 PM
there's only one alternative I'd take for my car....jet fuel :D

Katshot
04-06-03, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Jinx
Not to be overly provincial, but as an American I say drop automotive CAFE to 24mpg... and classify anything with more than a rubber-mat floor, two vinyl seats and an AM radio as the passenger vehicle that it is. That we have different safety standards, emissions standards, and fuel economy standards for passenger vehicles masquerading as trucks is criminal, and any discussion of changing car standards while this loophole exists is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Eco-nuts can jabber all they want about the evils of the internal combustion engine, but until there's a functioning alternative that doesn't simply suck (more) juice upstream, they need to siddown and shaddup.

The harsh reality is that no new powerplant is going anywhere without an energy distribution network. Here in America we have two -- petroleum distillates and electricity, and the electricity network simply doesn't have the capacity or the end-node throughput to satisfy vehicular energy needs. Indeed, out here on the Left Coast electricity has only recently been raised above joke status.

.Jinx
I'm beginning to LIKE this guy ;)

Ralph
04-08-03, 02:48 AM
I agree.

Ralph
04-08-03, 03:25 AM
They just did a feature on the news about the new Honda Civic Hybrid. Anyway, up here the cost of a 4 door Civic is 21,ooo dollars. The cost of the Hybrid Civic is 27,000 dollars. They said to justify the extra cost of the Hybrid, you would have to keep it and use it for 27 years before you would see any gas mileage advantage. I'm not sure how they figured this out or why, but I don't see much advantage to the Hybrid because it is so expensive in the first place. Besides, who wants to drive a four banger?

kcnewell
04-09-03, 12:09 AM
Who wants to drive a Hybrid? They're F'ugly and gutless. Too exspensive for what you get.......A genuine punkmobile!

Ralph
04-09-03, 12:44 AM
Exactly my point, they are too expensive to justify any economical benefit, IMO.

kcnewell
04-09-03, 01:47 AM
Plus....They're just WEENIE cars!

Ralph
04-09-03, 02:19 AM
Have you ever owned a 4 banger KC, or al the least a V6 car?

Astronomer
04-09-03, 09:22 AM
I saw a "What would Jesus drive?" sticker on the back of a Geo Metro the other day. As if to imply that Jesus would be driving a Metro? Come on folks, I don't want to get into a fighting mood over this issue, but I will if Metro owners want to claim some kind of moral high ground for driving such a POS donkey of a car like that and then on top of it want to be thought of as a modern day Jesus'. Give me a break. Why stop there Metro fans, from what I see those gasoline powered scooters can get you from A to B too. And just think; you can pretend you are Jesus witha lot more credibility when a mighty Metro comes along and intimidates you into giving up your scooter all together for something you pedal. The possibilities are endless for those who really want to get the upper hand in the moral argument for saving gas. Just keep your opinions to yourself though while I enjoy the relatively short time I have here on this earth with my gas gusling ICE. :burn:

kcnewell
04-09-03, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Ralph
Have you ever owned a 4 banger KC, or al the least a V6 car?

Yes! My wife has a Dodge raider( Mitsubishi 4 cyl. ) I once had a Chevy Vega wagon which had one of G.M.s worst 4's in it till I put a 283 in it, I had a Chevy, Citation as a beater car (V-6) But through it all I've always made sure I had at least one good car. I've always had a Cadillac ( V-8 ) except one time when I owned a '74 Lincoln MK IV ( 460 V-8 ) That was a good car in spite of the fact that it was a Ford product! I've had a couple of 'Vettes '84/'86 and an I.R.O.C. Z-28 '87 but I'll always have Cadillac to date I've had....A '69 Fleetwood ( 472 ) '74 MK IV ( 460 ) '85 Eldorado ( 4.1 ) '91 Seville ( 4.9 ) All of them were purchased new except the '69, it was three years old, I bought it when I was in high school and it was my first car ( That didn't belong to my folks ). I've had many other cars as well but those were the favorites!

As far as Jesus driving a metro.....Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reasonably sure he walked everywhere he went!

If people that drive those P.O.S. cars want to claim some supposed high moral ground, Let'em. They can drive around being morally superior and uncomfortable for the rest of their lives as far as I'm concerned....Life's too short to drive junk!:D

Ralph
04-10-03, 02:01 AM
I understand about the Vega, I remember my dad's mechanic buddies talking about it in the late seventies, They said if you went 80 miles per hour, the rims would come off! (I didn't know Vegas could go that fast). Also the V6 in your old Citation is the same 2.8 we have in the Phoenix coupe and it is a great powerplant, excellent passing power esppecially with the cat converter removed. But I think the Vega was created to fight the "apparent" gas shortage of 1973, as was the GM X-car of 1980 with that 2.8. Anyway, you've had some nice cars. I got my start with a 1970 Plymouth Fury, when all my friends had Chargers and Trans Ams, etc.

HotRodSaint
04-10-03, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by kcnewell
As far as Jesus driving a metro.....Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reasonably sure he walked everywhere he went!

He took a couple of boats and rode a donkey too.

Ok, without getting into a 'religious' dicussion, I need to chime in.

The WWJD (What would Jesus drive) campaign fails to take into account several things.

First, taking his claim to be the son of God as truth, certainly then he could renew non-renewable fuel supplies. I mean if he could multiply fish and bread, I don't think crude oil or gasoline would really be an issue for him. Taking that into account, he could drive anything he wanted. And he would NEVER EVER need to stop for gas. (He might have stopped to pay the gasoline taxes though, rendering to Ceasar what is Ceasars.)

Then theres his immediate need to carry 12 disciples. That means he'd likely need a full size van or small bus, because even the largest SUV's are 9 passenger. And driving through the desert with no roads means it would need to be converted to 4wd. Which means he would need to drive one of the least fuel efficient vehicles available.

Now for specualtion on his personal transportation, since he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and is supposed to come back on a white horse, I'm thinking he's a Mustang driver. Ford made the donkey of a Mustang in the '70's (ironically to save gas) and they arguably made some of the best pony car's ever, with Shelby's help.

Ok, I could go on, but you get the point. Thank God, this ill conceived campaign was over even as it started. I think the backlash did more damage than the good they thought they would accomplish.

kcnewell
04-10-03, 09:59 AM
Funny post HotRodSaint! L.M.A.O. Ralph.....I assure you, The wheels wouldn't come off of a Vega over eighty M.P.H. I had mine WAY over 100 many times! Nor was the car developed to address the '73 oil embargo. The Car was introduced in 1970 with a 4 banger to answer the popularity of the VW and other imports at the time. The car was originally designed to have a small block V-8 in it, That idea was scrapped in favor of the ill fated four in order to compete with the afore mentioned cars. It was a pretty good car in reality with the exception of the engine Which is where the car got it's bad reputation. The funny thing is, If they had put the small block in it it would have been a great car and the model probably would have lasted longer. They wern't bad looking cars and were very popular in spite of the terrible engine. The wagon was I.M.O. the best looking one and had tons of customizing potential. After I put the 283 in the car it was one of the most fun cars I've ever owned to drive. The power to weight ratio was fabulous even with minor mods to the engine! It was the best "sleeper" car I ever had as well. Now the G.M. X- cars on the other hand....I was glad to see them go away, they were I.M.O. one of the reasons G.M. had such a bad reputation for quality in that era.

Elvis
04-10-03, 10:01 AM
Jesus would drive a Hummer!

Katshot
04-10-03, 11:05 AM
I'm thinking that based on what HotRodSaint said, Jesus whould drive THIS:
http://www.homegame.org/news/stories/suv.htm

Ralph
04-11-03, 01:20 AM
Jesus would drive a POS Plymouth Fury because he wouldn't be into luxury. KC, I guess I learn something new everyday, thanks for the Vega info. Al least I think I'm sure about the X-car being an answer to the gas crisis. Ours has been a lot of fun with little maintanance, but now we got some rust to sand and prime. Maybe there was one Vega where the rims fell off and that led to a bad rumor?

kcnewell
04-11-03, 01:36 AM
All you gotta do to prevent that is tighten the lug nuts! That's kinda complicated for some!

Ralph
04-11-03, 02:06 AM
Gee, I NEVER thought of that, LOL!

Katshot
04-12-03, 09:07 AM
Yeah it's a HIGHLY technical procedure ;)

kcnewell
04-12-03, 09:39 AM
Well.....We're here to help you Ralph!

Katshot
04-12-03, 04:30 PM
Yep! I wrote a procedure outlining how to do it ;)

Ralph
04-13-03, 03:21 AM
Thank you kindly! HAHA

Elvis
04-13-03, 12:31 PM
If Hydrogen cars are big enough inside, I'll get in line to buy one. I don't think that the hybrids will ever grow any bigger than they already are.

Ralph
04-14-03, 12:36 AM
I heard on tv news that any car can be converted to hydrogen. Apparently there is a kit you can buy from somewhere in the US, for less than 400 dollars that can convert any car. The oil companies would never allow this IMO!

Dead Sled
05-01-03, 07:22 PM
I couldn't even begin to tell you why I won't give up my IC engine

AirJigga25
05-02-03, 01:43 PM
I like Mcnewell's quote, "Life's too short to drive junk." I'm going to pass that one on for sure...

elwesso
05-02-03, 04:23 PM
I agree.... Driving something electric (which is what a hydrogen powered car basically is) and something gas powered are completely different. Hell, I get more enjoyment driving a gas powered golf cart than an electric one!

Ralph
05-03-03, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by elwesso
I agree.... Driving something electric (which is what a hydrogen powered car basically is) and something gas powered are completely different. Hell, I get more enjoyment driving a gas powered golf cart than an electric one!

Right, even the hybrids are not powerful. I think the Civic Hybrid is only around 90 hp.

elwesso
05-03-03, 11:49 AM
Absolutely no fun!! They could make more powerful hybrids, but they may not let them get 80mpg. It would be pretty cool to see a V8 hybrid that got 30mpg!

Ralph
05-03-03, 11:46 PM
I could not believe my Caddies computer telling me I got 31 mpg the last time I was on the highway. It's funny 'cause when you go down a hill, even a little one, the "instant mpg" can say 70mpg!! What does your Q have for driver info or computers. I'm sure it has what a Caddy has?

elwesso
05-04-03, 12:19 AM
Actually, it does have about the same technology, but you cant access the computer codes and stuff like that on the car. You have to have a special computer called a CONSULT in order to do get it. But when you get one of those puppies, wake up, you can look at everything the computer is processing, and Im not exaggertaing in any way.

Unfortunately, it doesnt have any things like MPG, fuel used, inst mpg, OIL LIFE (i am dissapointed, but I would change it every 2500 miles anyway), etc.

Ralph
05-04-03, 12:52 AM
It was kinda tricky to figure all the buttons out at first (Canuck) but now I think I'm getting spoiled with all this technology. PS I think my car has 3 or 4 onboard computers, ie: engine management, auto climate control, CCR suspension, etc. Or maybe it is just one computer for all of these?

elwesso
05-04-03, 12:56 AM
I think there are more than one, but all feed into 1 mega computer.

Ralph
05-04-03, 01:03 AM
Maybe I should just get an electric golfcart. LOL Won't be cheap to get new computers. Our neighbour has an older Lincoln and some winters the comp. freezes, car won't start. Anyway they have to tow it to the Ford dealer and it costs him.

Ralph
05-04-03, 01:11 AM
Interesting story for you I heard at the Ford dealer when I had my '91 Grand Marquis. Some old guy had one like mine (Marquis) and he took it in because he hardly ever had to fill it up. Turns out he was getting 70 or 80 mpg! Know why. My dealer told me it was marked "property of Ford Mo. Co. Experimental division" What it had was a coil that pre heated the gas into vapour before it went into the intake manifold. So basically the car was "running on fumes!" He was even more mad after because the dealer changed it back, they let this one out by mistake! I guess they have tech. to get more out of the oil industry but the oil industry would not like it. I'm telling this like I heard it.

Dead Sled
05-07-03, 07:04 PM
Gas golf carts all the way! 2 weeks ago I layed one over on its side trying to do a Texas J :D

elwesso
05-07-03, 09:57 PM
The only thing I dont like about them is the dang governors :mad:

kcnewell
05-09-03, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Ralph
Interesting story for you I heard at the Ford dealer when I had my '91 Grand Marquis. Some old guy had one like mine (Marquis) and he took it in because he hardly ever had to fill it up. Turns out he was getting 70 or 80 mpg! Know why. My dealer told me it was marked "property of Ford Mo. Co. Experimental division"


I doubt that story Ralph! It doesn't work that way.......How do you think an experimental model got accidentally removed from the R&D dept? Then accidentally shipped out to a dealer? Then prepped and sold to a customer! And NOBODY NOTICED IT? I mean They tape and cover new models to drive them around and test them. They have miles on them. If they had that car, Do you think they'd just accidentally one day go " OOPS! Dang guys, We shipped out the experimental car to a dealer today"? The Property of FOMOCO experimental division tag sounds like B.S. too. Think about it Ralph! They're prepping the car for final sale and they don't notice anything different about it? They don't notice that it's got this sign that says it's an experimental car? Nor do they happen to notice that it has MILES ON IT? THINK Ralph....THINK! It'll be a nice change.

elwesso
05-09-03, 04:56 PM
That does sound a little fishy...

But then again, IT IS FORD :D

Ralph
05-10-03, 12:34 AM
That's just it, I have no way of knowing if I was being fed a bunch of BS or not. Your theory is of course logical and probably correct. It seems highly unlikely. However with today's technology I do not doubt that they could do something like this. I heard another rumor that someone in Canada did something similar to increase mileage, and an auto Co. paid them 50,000 for the patent. I don't know if it's true or not, who am I to judge someone. But it is probably a rumor also. As for me not thinking for a nice change, sorry I guess I am all out of original material right now. I guess I don't want to be as cauky as I was 'cause I get shot down by technopliles. I did however discover 4 grease nipples on each rear wheel of my Caddy that were NEVER greased, I guess I discovered why the suspension creaks. Cheers.

Ralph
05-23-03, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by elwesso
I agree.... Driving something electric (which is what a hydrogen powered car basically is) and something gas powered are completely different. Hell, I get more enjoyment driving a gas powered golf cart than an electric one!

I thought hydrogen-powered cars were filled up with simple water, and the hydrogen atoms were then split to produce power? Not the same as electric!??:eek:

elwesso
05-23-03, 04:16 PM
Technically it is electric. The splitting of atoms produces a charge that either runs the motor, or charges the battery that runs the motor.

But we wouldnt want to spit atoms too much on this would we :D

Ralph
05-29-03, 02:55 AM
I don't think we have to worry about electric or hybrid cars taking over, they said on the news that practically NO ONE is buying them. It seems unlikely that they will be a threat to internal combustion because people will not give up their large cars and or SUV's! While getting an oil change today, (I used to do my own, but they don't allow it where I live!) the kid said to me, "you should get a smaller car and be more friendly to the environment." And I replied, " If I bought a smaller car, I would need two of them for each of us and that would equal the V8 anyway." Thats the thing, people get preachy, and don't realize that when a family sells a large car, they have more money from the savings, so they buy another small car. So, in the end they are right where they started! And they are hippocrites, these so called environmentalists. They showed an Eco-terrorist on American news once for fire-bombing SUV's at a dealership, and guess what kind of vehicle he owned and got into after his court appearance.....a large SUV! They are all a bunch of flakes, thinking they are doing good. Hey, its not like I go down the highway and throw out stirofoam cups out the window, but don't get me started on recycling!

elwesso
05-29-03, 09:58 AM
Just because its smaller doesnt mean it has lower emissions..... If your cats are working correctly, emissions should be comparable to a 4banger.....

kcnewell
05-29-03, 10:23 AM
You're not supposed to throw Styrofoam cups out the window?

elwesso
05-29-03, 10:25 AM
And not drain your oil down the storm drain..... Its crazy, what were they thinking when they made these laws :)

kcnewell
05-29-03, 10:30 AM
You're not supposed to put waste oil down the storm drain??

elwesso
05-29-03, 10:43 AM
I guess not???!!! I dont think your supposed to put coolant down there either....

Ralph
05-30-03, 02:01 AM
Yeah, that's me, big stogey out my pie hole while I'm drivin' down the freeway, waving to all the Civics, while I drink my stirofoamed cup of joe and toss it out the window, blasting my hillbille Stomping Tom Conners (a Western Canadian singer) creating noise pollution breaking the noise bylaws! (The preceeding was meant for entertainment purposes only and in no way reflect reality on the author!)

elwesso
05-30-03, 09:27 AM
I think you need to change your title to "canadian hick" :histeric:

Ralph
05-31-03, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by elwesso
I think you need to change your title to "canadian hick" :histeric:

I've been called that, even though I don't look the part!:D :cool: ;)

elwesso
05-31-03, 03:15 PM
of course not... More of a canadian prep :D :D :histeric:

Ralph
05-31-03, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by elwesso
of course not... More of a canadian prep :D :D :histeric:

"Prep!" I haven't heard that word since the '80's man, which I am LIKE NOT TOTALLY hung up on DUDE!!:D