: N* with nitrous.



96-deville-man
03-11-06, 12:05 AM
There was atleast one guy on here talking about put a 100hp shot nitrous kit on there car and i was thinking about running nitrous also. I would like to know how big of shot is safe? I plan on running a wet kit but if a dry kit is safe i might consider.

fubar569
03-11-06, 01:10 AM
nitrous cliff notes

direct port > wet > dry...

no nitrous shot is safe. it's just like any other power adder. if you're irresponsible, bye bye motor. wether it's a 50 or a 500 shot...they all break the same.

we have a composite intake. on a wet shot there is the possibility of a nitrous backfire that could explode it into a million pieces. however with a dry kit you rely on the stock fuel system to support the power.

overall, i'd still feel safer with the wet shot. there's more of a chance of going lean on a dry shot then exploding your intake.

most hp on a stock V8? most would say 100hp is pushing it. that's what i plan on running this summer is 100hp. i'll also have (hopefully) a tb, exhaust, and of course no TC...

then again a reputable car mag took a junkyard 350 and hit it with over 300 for one dyno pull...like i said...all in the tune, and even then they still break the same.

oh, and at over 4.00 a pound in some places, that's around 40 bucks per bottle. a 10lb bottle might get you a few passes at the evening drags. when i say a few, at 100hp...maybe 6...it's expensive, yet the cheapest to initally add.

i think i covered most of the bases there...others feel free to fill in the gaps

96-deville-man
03-11-06, 01:29 AM
nitrous cliff notes

direct port > wet > dry...

no nitrous shot is safe. it's just like any other power adder. if you're irresponsible, bye bye motor. wether it's a 50 or a 500 shot...they all break the same.

we have a composite intake. on a wet shot there is the possibility of a nitrous backfire that could explode it into a million pieces. however with a dry kit you rely on the stock fuel system to support the power.

overall, i'd still feel safer with the wet shot. there's more of a chance of going lean on a dry shot then exploding your intake.

most hp on a stock V8? most would say 100hp is pushing it. that's what i plan on running this summer is 100hp. i'll also have (hopefully) a tb, exhaust, and of course no TC...

then again a reputable car mag took a junkyard 350 and hit it with over 300 for one dyno pull...like i said...all in the tune, and even then they still break the same.

oh, and at over 4.00 a pound in some places, that's around 40 bucks per bottle. a 10lb bottle might get you a few passes at the evening drags. when i say a few, at 100hp...maybe 6...it's expensive, yet the cheapest to initally add.

i think i covered most of the bases there...others feel free to fill in the gaps

I was thinking a direct port wet setup if i can find a used one cheap. im honstly scared to put a 100shot to it even tho i would do it to my little honda dirt bike.
would the stock fuel system handle a 100shot dry?
I would rarely use it because the im NOT gonna run it on the STREET EVER.
I am going for around 400hp before i supercharge my car and around 650 700hp with supercharging. im hoping to be able to hit 400hp without nitrous but it is an option not to mention instant hp.

fubar569
03-11-06, 02:26 AM
you'll be hard pressed to make 600 with a charger. not to mention the drivetrain wouldn't keep up and then there's that pesky OBDII computer it's gotta play nice with.

a GOOD direct port system new is about a grand to 1300 plus installation if you don't do it yourself.

100 dry? probably, but i wouldn't chance it. a single nozzle wet kit new is 4-600 dollars...well worth the extra insurance

and woah woah woah...you're talking using this AND a charger??? you really wanna kill this thing in the most spectacular fasion don't you? lol :eek:

a good set of heads with mild cams, exhaust typically would put you at about 400, IF you COULD TUNE IT...this bastard OBDII PCM is what's getting in the way of any huge gains in power. ask mark99sts. his turbo plays nice, but at 12k invested and then some, plus infinite time tuning it...

me? i'm hoping with the exhaust (maybe headers), an eventual TB/spacer, and a 100 shot to hit 400-425 on the bottle...that's quick enough in a streetable caddy for me.

eldorado1
03-11-06, 09:34 AM
100hp shot is pretty safe on these engines. I wouldn't use any more than that though. The problem is the sudden onset of power, which puts a lot of stress into the drivetrain in a short amount of time. Turbos/superchargers work much more gradually. Superchargers less so, but...

Just make sure you put in some spark plugs a couple ranges colder and you'll be fine. You can get NGK TR7IX plugs for about $7ea, they're 2 ranges colder than stock.

96-deville-man
03-11-06, 02:23 PM
100hp shot is pretty safe on these engines. I wouldn't use any more than that though. The problem is the sudden onset of power, which puts a lot of stress into the drivetrain in a short amount of time. Turbos/superchargers work much more gradually. Superchargers less so, but...

Just make sure you put in some spark plugs a couple ranges colder and you'll be fine. You can get NGK TR7IX plugs for about $7ea, they're 2 ranges colder than stock.

first off i really dont wanna pay $56 dollars for spark plugs. and i dont think i needa 100shot thats a huge hp increase and i will probably s**t my self when i turned that on. plus i wanna get the ingition before nitrous so i can set it to retard the timing when nitrous is running.

davesdeville
03-12-06, 02:09 AM
I'll be attempting a dual stage direct port system eventually. According to my educated guess, I'm losing 40Whp due to the altitude up here. I am going to dyno the car after the nitrous system is installed, do a couple pulls without nitrous, then if I'm down as much power as I think I am, I'll probably go for a 75 shot first stage, 150 shot second stage.

I plan to run a longer post-solenoid nitrous line than the fuel line, in order to avoid nitrous entering the intake manifold before the fuel enters. I've yet to decide how much longer a line that will require.

I'm going to run a window switch, with the stock convertor I won't spray before about 3000. If I get a higher stall convertor eventually that might change things.

My plan is to run a small fuel cell with race gas, maybe toluene/xylene mix, and electric pump to feed the nitrous system and only the nitrous system. I'll run regular gas like I always do, then when I'm spraying the fuels SHOULD average out to somewhere over 94 octane.

My $.02.

96-deville-man
03-12-06, 07:30 AM
I'll be attempting a dual stage direct port system eventually. According to my educated guess, I'm losing 40Whp due to the altitude up here. I am going to dyno the car after the nitrous system is installed, do a couple pulls without nitrous, then if I'm down as much power as I think I am, I'll probably go for a 75 shot first stage, 150 shot second stage.

I plan to run a longer post-solenoid nitrous line than the fuel line, in order to avoid nitrous entering the intake manifold before the fuel enters. I've yet to decide how much longer a line that will require.

I'm going to run a window switch, with the stock convertor I won't spray before about 3000. If I get a higher stall convertor eventually that might change things.

My plan is to run a small fuel cell with race gas, maybe toluene/xylene mix, and electric pump to feed the nitrous system and only the nitrous system. I'll run regular gas like I always do, then when I'm spraying the fuels SHOULD average out to somewhere over 94 octane.

My $.02.

that sounds like a nice setup. i really dont think ill even run a 100hp shot maybe 75hp at the most because i plan on boosting.

auroradude
03-12-06, 10:54 AM
Man I think you guys are gonna kill these motors...lol. Although Dave does have a good idea, well at least it sounds like it. I really wouldnt bother with nitrous though after I thought about it. MAYBE with a new engine, but most have 100k+..Dave how many miles does your car have? I need reliability too much more and more all the time, someday the hot rod is gonna come though. I can't really spend $7200 on a new motor anyway and how would you if you had to?

eldorado1
03-12-06, 12:16 PM
first off i really dont wanna pay $56 dollars for spark plugs.

Don't get the iridiums, then they'll be about $2 ea. Plugs are cheaper than engines, at least in my experience........ :stirpot:

96-deville-man
03-12-06, 12:18 PM
Man I think you guys are gonna kill these motors...lol. Although Dave does have a good idea, well at least it sounds like it. I really wouldnt bother with nitrous though after I thought about it. MAYBE with a new engine, but most have 100k+..Dave how many miles does your car have? I need reliability too much more and more all the time, someday the hot rod is gonna come though. I can't really spend $7200 on a new motor anyway and how would you if you had to?

i belive my engine was replaced around 30000miles ago so its pretty damn new.

eldorado1 i got the money for the tb but i dont know if my mom will let me paypal it so if she cant ill save it and buy the next one you get. ill let you know today.

fubar569
03-12-06, 12:46 PM
2 stage direct port? please tell me you have forged internals...especially at those power levels.

as far as the longer nitrous line vs fuel lines. general rule is 2:1 - for every 1ft of fuel line use 2ft nitrous line. that helps alot to ease out the lean spike.

as for the fuel system. sounds like a plan, but i myself always fill with 93 anyways and i can always stuff a couple gallons of 110 in before i head to the track.

and yes, the plugs are pretty much a requirement. take out every insurance policy you can. it is your motor's life afterall.

ELDOminator
03-12-06, 02:15 PM
I thought Northstars were stock with forged pistons and rods?

fubar569
03-12-06, 03:00 PM
if so...that would be awesome. i just assumed it would be like every other GM on the planet with forged crank & decent rods but crap pistons

eldorado1
03-12-06, 03:03 PM
cast iron crank, powdered metal rods, cast aluminum pistons

Some later engines got a forged crank, it might be 2000 or something.

fubar569
03-12-06, 03:55 PM
and we spin them to 6k...

with no forged internals, no more than a 100hp shot...just to be safe

speedyman_2
03-12-06, 08:04 PM
I did a Dry kit. I'd suggest NOT doing a dry setup.
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/tech/STS/NitrousInstall/
I really wish I could do the turbo setup or a really good wet setup in the future though.

fubar569
03-12-06, 09:21 PM
linky no worky...i don't gets me a tech article

eldorado1
03-12-06, 09:45 PM
takes me to the front page of the forum

fubar569
03-12-06, 10:17 PM
replace cadillacforums with lincoln - vs - cadillac with no spaces or dashes

davesdeville
03-13-06, 03:43 AM
Man I think you guys are gonna kill these motors...lol. Although Dave does have a good idea, well at least it sounds like it. I really wouldnt bother with nitrous though after I thought about it. MAYBE with a new engine, but most have 100k+..Dave how many miles does your car have? I need reliability too much more and more all the time, someday the hot rod is gonna come though. I can't really spend $7200 on a new motor anyway and how would you if you had to?

110k. Like I said I'm losing a crapload of power at this altitude. I figure I'd be putting down a bit under 200 at the wheels. I'm going to install the nitrous, dyno the car and see how much power I'm actually losing, then choose jets to make up for it. I'm GUESSING that a 150 shot on my car up here would probably end up making slightly less power than a 100 shot on a sea level car. I'll know when I get it on the rollers. I may end up with a 125 shot on the second stage instead. I will probably use the nitrous on a very occasional basis, hence my idea for the fuel system where I could stick to 86 when I'm not racing. I decided on a two stage so I can use a conservative 75 shot if I'm going to race someone slow and don't want to put my engine at risk (well not as much risk anyway.) Then say I'm racing a stock 03-04 Cobra and damn well want to win, I'll use the second stage.

If I blow it up, I do have another car I can drive until I get it fixed (and should that car also grenade I've got a secondary backup as well.) I'd pull the engine apart and see what exactly is damaged, then decide whether to go with a used engine or rebuild the current one.