: I smell a rat at Consumer Reports.



Jesda
03-09-06, 08:25 PM
"Consumer Report's recent auto issue had an analysis which shows that overall, hybrids don't save the buyer money. In fact, they cost quite a bit more. This is corroborated by other reports I've read on the subject.

"However, CR just listed a correction (reported on sites such as CNN and MSNBC) that says that there was an "error" in their prior analysis---unspecified, of course---and that, on second thought, the Prius and Civic Hybrids do save their buyers a few hundred dollars overall over 5 years.

"I know CR is supposed to be neutral and independent, but I smell a rat here.

"Incidently, in order to get the new net savings numbers, they had to assume $4/gal gas and that current tax credits, which are currently scheduled to be phased out once the number of hybrids sold reaches 60,000 units, get renewed and made permanent."

----

Yeah, sounds fishy.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-09-06, 08:42 PM
Is it consumer reports that does the "new car" issue? Either Consumer Reports or Consumer Guide made the new car issue, and all of the top 10 cars in it were Japanese.


If it wasnt for all the media hype about Toyota and Honda, I wouldn't think anything of them. Actually, when I was riding in my friend's 01 Accord EX V6 Coupe, I was looking at it with an open mind, pretending that I had never heard such rave reviews about Hondas and Toyotas...and let me tell you, having that mindset really made his car less great. It uses the same cheap leather that everyone else does, the fit and finish are good, but nothing excellent, and it didnt seem lik that great of a car.

Riding in my mom's 05 Toyota Highlander today, I thought the same thing. "Why does everyone like these, I see nothing special about it." It's not like the god of automobiles like everyone makes out Toyota to be. Instead, its rather plain and boring...very boring..lots of gray plastics and low quality cloth. The fit and finish they're always talking about is none better than my Caddy or any of the other Caddys I've driven.

Now if you want world class fit and finish, go look at the new Volkswagens.

Jonas McFeely
03-09-06, 09:15 PM
Is it consumer reports that does the "new car" issue? Either Consumer Reports or Consumer Guide made the new car issue, and all of the top 10 cars in it were Japanese.


If it wasnt for all the media hype about Toyota and Honda, I wouldn't think anything of them. Actually, when I was riding in my friend's 01 Accord EX V6 Coupe, I was looking at it with an open mind, pretending that I had never heard such rave reviews about Hondas and Toyotas...and let me tell you, having that mindset really made his car less great. It uses the same cheap leather that everyone else does, the fit and finish are good, but nothing excellent, and it didnt seem lik that great of a car.

Riding in my mom's 05 Toyota Highlander today, I thought the same thing. "Why does everyone like these, I see nothing special about it." It's not like the god of automobiles like everyone makes out Toyota to be. Instead, its rather plain and boring...very boring..lots of gray plastics and low quality cloth. The fit and finish they're always talking about is none better than my Caddy or any of the other Caddys I've driven.

Now if you want world class fit and finish, go look at the new Volkswagens.

The average consumer wants a car that is cheap to buy,cheap to maintain,and doesnt have to be fixed all the time.We can argue all day over the reliability of American cars versus Japanese cars,but what the american public believes in general is that Japanese cars last forever(most do) and American cars break all the time(some do).Whether or not that has any truth to it is irrelavent because of what we are told from the media and whoever else.Bland?Yes. Stylish?No. But thats not what matters to most people.Reliable and cheap to maintain?Yes.Thats what most care about.

Me: Reliable and cheap to maintain? Yes

Night Wolf : NO F**KING WAY! THEY ARE WAY EXPENSIVE TO FIX BLAH BLAH BLAH

saved you the trouble again

noahsdad
03-09-06, 09:37 PM
Cars are subjective decisions, and everyone purchases them based on different criteria. For anyone to rate something like an automobile, they first must establish a uniform standard of measure, which assumes everyone thinks as they do. Consumer Reports designs their rating scale based on what they think will sell magazines - nothing more.

Motor Trend is the same. No I haven't forgotten the Cherokee as SUV of the year for three years, or the Taurus, the 300M, etc. But they still shamelessly write glowing reports about almost any POS that Toyota or Honda roll out, and judge almost every American car with a note of sarcasm. They almost seem surprised when they get one they can't complain about.

I have the whole year of Motor Trend issues from 1960. Guess what they loved back then? The freakin' Renault Dauphine!!! Now there was a total nightmare from start to finish.

Swine
03-09-06, 09:41 PM
Consumer reports lost all objectivity years ago. From toasters to automobiles, their tests are flawed. It's a grand and noble idea, but their reccomendations are a joke.

Jonas McFeely
03-09-06, 09:44 PM
Cars are subjective decisions, and everyone purchases them based on different criteria. For anyone to rate something like an automobile, they first must establish a uniform standard of measure, which assumes everyone thinks as they do. Consumer Reports designs their rating scale based on what they think will sell magazines - nothing more.

Motor Trend is the same. No I haven't forgotten the Cherokee as SUV of the year for three years, or the Taurus, the 300M, etc. But they still shamelessly write glowing reports about almost any POS that Toyota or Honda roll out, and judge almost every American car with a note of sarcasm. They almost seem surprised when they get one they can't complain about.

I have the whole year of Motor Trend issues from 1960. Guess what they loved back then? The freakin' Renault Dauphine!!! Now there was a total nightmare from start to finish.

Dont get me wrong,im not a fan of Honda or Toyota,but what exactly makes them POS again? Is it there reliablity? Or is that they are are actually good cars? Though bland and not the most exciting vehicles,they are for sure not POS cars.

Jesda
03-09-06, 10:16 PM
I only like CR for objective, measurable things, like battery life of a digital camera or the capacity of a washing machine.

noahsdad
03-09-06, 10:18 PM
Dont get me wrong,im not a fan of Honda or Toyota,but what exactly makes them POS again? Is it there reliablity? Or is that they are are actually good cars? Though bland and not the most exciting vehicles,they are for sure not POS cars.


Both Toyota and Honda make many fine cars, but even if they build a dog, you'll never read it in Consumer Reports or Motor Trend. When GM or Ford builds a marginal car, they'll rip it to shreds.

Kev
03-09-06, 10:24 PM
Well, let's see, CR was wrong about my 88 Ford Mustang, they were wrong about my 89 Merc Sable, they were wrong about my 89 Cadillac SDV and they were wrong about my 96 Ford Aerostar.

Yup, it's safe to say that I don't put any stock in the opinions of CR. I wouldn't use their pages to wipe my *** if I ran out of toilet paper!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-09-06, 10:43 PM
Motor Trend is the same. No I haven't forgotten the Cherokee as SUV of the year for three years, or the Taurus, the 300M, etc.

Motor Trend is hardly perfect, I agree. But what was their car of the year for 1990?

The Lincoln Town Car!

Spyder
03-09-06, 11:51 PM
Kev...just what WOULD you use then?

:D

Kev
03-10-06, 10:34 AM
Kev...just what WOULD you use then?

:DI'll never tell! But you can be sure I'm gonna wash up real good next chance I get!! :eek:

Jonas McFeely
03-10-06, 11:51 AM
Both Toyota and Honda make many fine cars, but even if they build a dog, you'll never read it in Consumer Reports or Motor Trend. When GM or Ford builds a marginal car, they'll rip it to shreds.

Yeah thats pretty true,thats why i read Car and Driver.Best car magazine you can buy.Though they do go a little nuts when it comes to BMW or Honda.

Caddy Man
03-10-06, 12:19 PM
Both Toyota and Honda make many fine cars, but even if they build a dog, you'll never read it in Consumer Reports or Motor Trend. When GM or Ford builds a marginal car, they'll rip it to shreds.
Definitely. I agree 100%

EcSTSatic
03-10-06, 10:39 PM
I think CR is getting pressure from the government, EPA and the like, and all of the conservationists.

Futuristic trends come and go. Some survive the test of time, other do not. I remember when the Pacer came out with all of its "innovative" ideas like a larger passenger door for getting grocieries out. And all that glass! It didn't last. Then there's the Tucker with all of its safety features. While the car didn't succeed, it made Detroit sit up and take notice.

Time will tell if the hybrids will make it or not. Technology changes so fast, before long the Prius may be today's Pacer or Edsel. I'll not touch one until they have a maintainance history. And by then technology will have matured some.

gdwriter
03-11-06, 01:07 AM
One of the graphic designers where I work bought a new Prius a few weeks ago. Today, it DIED and left her stranded. She actually ended up hitching a ride to work. Had it towed to the dealer, but they haven't looked at it yet, so I don't know what's wrong with it. She said a big warning light came on (the exclamation point inside a triangle) and then it went dead.

If and when I find out what happened, I'll post again.

Destroyer
03-11-06, 08:31 AM
Is it consumer reports that does the "new car" issue? Either Consumer Reports or Consumer Guide made the new car issue, and all of the top 10 cars in it were Japanese.


If it wasnt for all the media hype about Toyota and Honda, I wouldn't think anything of them. Actually, when I was riding in my friend's 01 Accord EX V6 Coupe, I was looking at it with an open mind, pretending that I had never heard such rave reviews about Hondas and Toyotas...and let me tell you, having that mindset really made his car less great. It uses the same cheap leather that everyone else does, the fit and finish are good, but nothing excellent, and it didnt seem lik that great of a car.

Riding in my mom's 05 Toyota Highlander today, I thought the same thing. "Why does everyone like these, I see nothing special about it." It's not like the god of automobiles like everyone makes out Toyota to be. Instead, its rather plain and boring...very boring..lots of gray plastics and low quality cloth. The fit and finish they're always talking about is none better than my Caddy or any of the other Caddys I've driven.

Now if you want world class fit and finish, go look at the new Volkswagens.
Agreed. My wife had a '98 Honda Accord EX v6. I personally did not like it, plus it was a real fugly purple color. Is it me or do Honda's make a lot of road noise from the front wheels?. My wife now drives an '00 Camry (which will soon be sold as I bought her a '98 Deville), the Camry even though reliable, feels really cheap inside and out. The exterior metal feels very thin and Toyota/Honda paint just flat out sucks. I like American and German cars and from here on in those are the only vechicles that will grace my garage/driveway.

Jesda
03-11-06, 08:47 AM
My family has had poor luck on late-model Toyota products. Aunt's Lexus ES had an engine failure after three years, and dad's 99 Camry had a tranny failure at 99k. On the other hand, he owns a late 70s longbed Toyota pickup that just refuses to die, and my brother beat the piss out of an ugly 1983 Tercel -- he drove it without a working water pump for a year! [I finally put a new one in for him.]

Toyota doesn't make cars like they used to, unfortunately. The reputation for reliability is a bit hyped.

Mom's 01 Acura MDX was a rattling, noisy car with a cheapish interior and screwy brakes. Her 04 MDX was a bit nicer, but both had known transmission issues -- she ignored the recalls and luckily got rid of both before 50k).

On the other hand, my dad's 92 Civic Vx hatchback is rock solid and a hoot to drive. It gets 50mpg on the highway! He never drives it much anymore since he has four other cars, but he still won't sell it to me.

His company gave him a 98 Chevy Astro AWD, which he hated. It was great at hauling, quite powerful, and great in the snow, but it was horrid in terms of reliability and ride quality. It was always in the shop for braking miscellaneous little drivetrain issues. He since went back to driving Grand Caravans for work and is much happier.

I guess you could say its been a mixed experience for my family when it comes to domestic cars, the same way it has for foreign cars.

Eric Kahn
03-11-06, 11:43 PM
I am glad no one mentioned VW as I drive a 2005 Passat wagon TDI, it had the 2 requirements needed for me, 1 I fit in it, 2 its a diesel, but 1 was the most important

Playdrv4me
03-12-06, 12:04 PM
Neither Toyota nor Mercedes build vehicles the way they used to. Theres a few good ones, notably the LS430, Land Cruiser, etc. But for the most part its all crap. Mercedes is worse, nothing they make anymore is worth writing home about except for the E55 Sedan and Wagon.

BMW, Audi, VW, Nissan, Subaru however are all doing a pretty good job. I cant find fault with any of them, especially VW and Audi.

Honda is was and will always be a lifeless but reliable brand.

Jesda
03-12-06, 02:55 PM
I cant find fault with any of them, especially VW and Audi.

VW and Audi?

http://www.wndu.com/news/pics/story_photos/joint.JPG

All I can say is, pass the joint. :D

Playdrv4me
03-12-06, 03:56 PM
Well, reliability-wise they are lacking, but VW and Audi havent ever touted nor been known for their reliability to begin with. What I meant was the cars and SUVs they produce are getting better and better with time, as opposed to the old Audi 5000 box my dad had back in the late eighties. Mercedes and Toyota are just getting worse all around

Zorb750
03-12-06, 05:28 PM
Smokinthepot?

gdwriter
03-12-06, 05:53 PM
Honda is was and will always be a lifeless but reliable brand.

I would have said that about Toyota. The Camrys I've driven always left me cold.

I had two completely trouble-free Accords (gets out the asbestos shorts), and while they could be considered appliances by people who only see cars as mere transportation, I found mine, especially the '99, to be spirited, fun-to-drive cars.