: Finally got to drive my '95 again...and it died...



caddycruiser
03-04-06, 07:25 PM
Well, finally got back home last night and just got to drive my beautiful '95 for only the 3rd time since I bought it this morning...then it took a crap...

Let it warm up almost 10 minutes, and was off for a 5 minute drive down to the bank where I work part-time when I'm home so I could make some copies. Was inside about 10 minutes, went back outside to get in and go again, and it fired immediately as always, but started sputtering and shaking after about a second or so and died. Waited a minute and tried it again, and it did the same thing, but died a little quicker.

After my dad came down, he kept starting it again and again, each time giving it a little gas to try and see if that might help keep it alive, but it just would shake more, stutter, and croke. The more he started it, the quicker and quicker it would die, until the last time it just sat there cranking and wouldn't start at all.

We looked all over and messed with a few different things, but couldn't find anything clearly wrong and I couldn't leave it in the bank lot, so we called the dealer tow service. I already had an appointment to get the trans fluid & filter changed Monday morning at the local GM dealer, it just had to get there on a flatbed this time instead of being dropped off...and it doesn't run...

So, in short, REALLY wrecked my attempted first real day of driving the beauty...:( :(

I'm bracing myself for the bill, but we've always been happy with work we've had done at this dealer before, and this should be no different...just as long as I get my baby back in running condition:cool:

Any ideas what might be going on? I'm thinking fuel related, since it did start but then would shake and die like it was being starved, but I couldn't tell you. Well, that, and the fact that it's run perfect up until now and was even like a top less than 10 minutes before...

96Fleetwood
03-04-06, 07:49 PM
Optispark?

caddycruiser
03-04-06, 07:59 PM
Optispark?

I don't think so, because there were no signs of anything before, even 10 minutes before, and it would fire PERFECTLY, but then shutter, shake, and die off like it only had the fuel to first fire, but was being starved or something after that. But why it would be smooth as silk and purring right along with half a tank right before, and not want to start again shortly after if a fuel issue, is beyond me. Fuel pump, pump relay, filter...maybe...or something completely different and more electrical system related...

This is just a theory, but that was the impression I got from watching and listening to it start and die repeatedly. But, you never know...

I just hope it's still dead as a doornail (weird thing to hope for, huh?:rolleyes: ) come Monday morning, so the dealer can "start from scratch" and figure it out...as well as get the trans fluid & filter changed after that.

This just had to happen, as our fridge is now having similarly deadly issues, the exhaust fan above the stove is going strange, etc...:bigroll:

caddycruiser
03-04-06, 08:43 PM
Just thought of something, whether it's important or not...

When I first test drove the car back in December, there were only 2 notches showing on the gas gauge, so it was quite low. Now, between then and mid January when I bought it, I *assume* someone at the car lot put some gas into it, but the day I went back to sign the papers and pick it up, the gauge was on one notch as my dad flogged it a bit on the drive. As soon as I got into it to head home, the one notch disappeared and the line was all blank, with the "E" light flashing.

Now I know, having read time and time again, that the gas gauges on these cars can be very finnicky and typically run out of gas even before the gauge reads empty, so the fact that this car's tank was so low for so long and I was even driving it with the light flashing shocked me.

So, knowing that even having it low can cook the fuel pump a bit, might that be a factor here...especially if it's the fuel pump? The only odd part is that it ran flawlessly after that and until this morning, with right over and then right at half a tank (I filled it to there right after pulling out of the dealer's lot back in January).

Cooked fuel pump that just decided to stop working after being driven about 5 times? Or is that not probable?

caddycruiser
03-04-06, 10:44 PM
Any idea what having a new fuel pump and maybe filter installed might cost? Or even how much each of the parts alone costs?

I'm confident that the GM dealer will be able to fix it, and not screw me over (never have so far, after several different paid for services), so I just have to wait and wonder until Monday.

But like I asked above, might this occurrence of fine for a 15 minute idle and drive and then all of a seeming like it's starved for gas and dying be possible if it were the fuel pump? One part of me thinks it is, but another is wondering if that's what it is, why it was perfectly fine up until just then...

caddycruiser
03-05-06, 01:25 PM
Well, took the '93 out today for a bit of a long multi-town spin, and stopped by to make sure the '95 hadn't been vandalized...it hasn't:rolleyes:

Hopefully, it will at least be running again tomorrow...anyone else know, or have an idea, if these kind of symptoms would be a fuel pump or what else?

caddycruiser
03-05-06, 10:12 PM
MAF issues maybe? I've been reading that lately on the Impala SS forum, in addition to possibly bad fuel pumps, with similar symptoms to mine.

I'm just REALLY trying to get a good idea of any suggestions I might make to the dealer tomorrow morning when I call them first thing (kinda gotta explain why it's in for tranny work...but isn't running either...), and attempt to get them on the right track. They should be able to figure out something, but I don't want to have something replaced that ends up not being the problem...

caddycruiser
03-05-06, 10:31 PM
Or a coil wire problem...:cookoo: ...that seems to be another common issue with these kind of symptoms...

FASSTWOOD
03-05-06, 10:31 PM
Im thinking maybe a fuel pump unless your out of gas. My car has run out of gas while still showing two bars on the guage. If its a fuel pump let me know I think if you get it from the dealer it will be a complete unit with the sender. I would be interested in getting your old sender for a project i have in mind.

Revoh
03-05-06, 10:32 PM
Sounds like you're on the right track to me. As I'm sure you know, the fuel pump is in the tank and lubricated by the gasoline in there, so they get burned up all the time when the fuel gets low. I also had a car do that when the fuel filter was clogged up one time. Replaced the filter, and all was right with the world.

DopeStar 156
03-05-06, 11:19 PM
Definitely a fuel issue here. I'm gonna put my money on fuel pump.

caddycruiser
03-06-06, 06:21 AM
Good, at least I'm on the right track then...and yeah, it did have a half a tank in it at the time, and ran fine 10 minutes earlier.

It's just that it seemed like it had a few dribbles left to get turned over and idle a second, but not enough to keep running. And after we fired it several times, it just wouldn't turn over at all. JUST like it was being starved...

That, and the fact that it was SO low on gas for apparently such a long time, that always had me worried.

The only other thing I was told was "Did you hear the pump running every time you were starting it?", but I've never heard a pump running/prime in ANY car...I guess because I've never been intentionally listening for it.

NOW, I just have a feeling they'll go out this morning to the lot and it will fire right up...just hope they'll be able to find & fix quickly.

caddycruiser
03-06-06, 06:26 AM
Im thinking maybe a fuel pump unless your out of gas. My car has run out of gas while still showing two bars on the guage. If its a fuel pump let me know I think if you get it from the dealer it will be a complete unit with the sender. I would be interested in getting your old sender for a project i have in mind.

Okay. I'll see what I can do if thisi ends up being what gets replaced.

N0DIH
03-06-06, 12:25 PM
Mine ran out of my the other day (again) now with 3 bars. It is getting worse. I have to monitor mileage carefully to know when I will be close to running out.

The local NAPA store said GM has some chemical additive for the tank ($30-$40!) that was designed to "cure" this problem. I called my parts guy and he wasn't aware of it and said to call him tomorrow and he would check around today.

After having my wife come bring me fuel 50 miles from home, that $30 would probably cover that (if it really exists and works...) I am thinking this summer it is tank dropping time....

BCs71
03-06-06, 03:03 PM
From what I've read on the forums, the GM dealership pump replacement is quite pricey. Like $400 for parts and labor. It's an easy swap, as well. I've done it three times.

Unfortunately the Fleetwood being so close to a B-body means that it has the same problems, and I think the FW has burned fuel pump wiring as well. The wires in the tank or at the connection on top of the sender has their insulation melt away and then the wires touch and short out (or in the case of the connector at top or bottom of the sender, it gets melted and terminals blackened and makes a poor connection).
If you have burnt wires, then the thing is shorted and fuses will blow.
If you have melted connectors, then you can sometimes get her going again in times of crisis (so you don't need a tow and can limp her home) bu banging on the bottom of the tank with your fist or a mallet.
Or, you could get lucky and just have a failed fuel pump, which is a pretty basic swap.

Check it out:
http://www.badbodies.com/tech/fuelpumpinstall.htm

If you have melted internal wiring, then GM will try and sell you a complete sender unit for in the tank which is like $200+.
AT Napa they have the wiring harness for like $10.....
http://www.badbodies.com/tech/FPwiringharness.jpg

Good luck! Been there, done that and I don't envy you!
As you already said, the fuel level in the tank helps keep the pump cool to avoid problems, so be sure to her full of fuel!

caddycruiser
03-06-06, 04:22 PM
WHAT a freakin’ saga today was…

Called this morning and gave them a little bit more of a heads up on what problem I was having. Got back to them later in the morning, only to find out it had not only fired up perfectly for them (big shock there…), but did so several times and they were able to get it in and get the trans service done.

BUT, in doing so, the service guy apparently was rolling the driver’s window back up after putting it down, and it sort of came off the tracks and took some work to get back up…door panel is now off, and parts are on order to replace the broken rollers. This was only part 1.

THEN, after doing some more diagnosis to try and figure out what the dying problem I was having was caused by, they confirmed that the EGR valve was toast—stuck shut, and had apparently been so for some time—hence, I now know why I kept getting that code (-32) on the climate control diagnostics. BUT, as they soon found out, not only was it cooked, but as the tech dug deeper, the last owner or their mechanic apparently decided to bypass the bad valve with some splicing and cutting, of which means a special wire has to be ordered, along with a new valve and another part, and that will now all have to go in to solve the EGR problem.

FINALLY, after figuring out the EGR situation and the fallen window, they went to back it out of the garage around 3pm, and guess what? Dead. Wouldn’t run, just as it had done to me on Saturday. I suggested a fuel pump problem first thing when I called, but was told “Well, if it starts up and runs fine, checking the pressure wouldn’t tell us a whole lot because it’s already running…but we did anyway, and it was fine.” The fuel filter was fine too. But, as was just described to me, after it wouldn’t run (and is now stuck in their Buick-Pontiac service garage…), they started doing more testing again and found that the fuel pump really is fried…another big shock there. Now ordered and will be replacing the fuel pump, strainer, and filter too.

So, tallying up what should be a very nice bill…
-New trans fluid and filter
-Rollback tow
-New EGR valve and some replacement wiring to go with it
-New window rollers to get a properly functioning driver’s window again
-New fuel pump, strainer, and filter
-And, who knows, maybe a few other things…

At least they always seemed on top of things over the phone, and so far, the quotes for each part/labor combo doesn’t seem *that* bad…still depressing though…

I do feel a lot better knowing that one day it might be reliable, though, or at least I can think so…

caddycruiser
03-06-06, 05:19 PM
Good luck! Been there, done that and I don't envy you!
As you already said, the fuel level in the tank helps keep the pump cool to avoid problems, so be sure to her full of fuel!

TRUST ME. After this nightmare (even though it's only just started), this car is NEVER going to get below a half a tank!

Then again, even though I know some people with higher performance or some other serious mods in mind might delete the EGR, I can't even begin to fathom what genius thought it be best to cut and slice the wiring after the first EGR was toast...INSTEAD OF JUST REPLACING THE DAMN $50-60 PART:rant2:

I just hope after this debacle gets over, and it gets several new parts, I won't have to worry about much else...at least for a while...

Adam
03-06-06, 06:54 PM
well... atleast you can get all these problems taken care of now and not have to worry about it. good luck man, the bill will suck but she will be better than ever!

ocjmakaveli
03-06-06, 09:01 PM
Shouldve replaced the egr valve yourself for very cheap in about 5 minutes. Would've saved at least half the price of a dealer part.Honestly you could have just cleaned the egr valve too and it'll work for a few years.

trans fluid change is really really really unnecessary unless you were having problems with the trans in the first place but it's better not to do anything to the trans in the first place

ACTUALLY wth they say the egr valve was toast BUT of course it won't open if the egr wires are cut DUH!:rant2: I bet if htey just replace the wires it would've worked again :thepan: :thepan:

Remember one thing NO ONE i mean ALMOST NO ONE sells a car when it's running perfectly 95% of the time a car is sold because it has 1+ things wrong with it that the seller doesn't want to bother fixing. I have yet to hear of someone buying a car and have it run perfectly fine for 12 months without some type of repair.

Trust me if this is the only thing you have to bother with then your lucky. In the future try and do some work yourself and save major major money.

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 06:49 AM
Shouldve replaced the egr valve yourself for very cheap in about 5 minutes. Would've saved at least half the price of a dealer part.Honestly you could have just cleaned the egr valve too and it'll work for a few years.

trans fluid change is really really really unnecessary unless you were having problems with the trans in the first place but it's better not to do anything to the trans in the first place

ACTUALLY wth they say the egr valve was toast BUT of course it won't open if the egr wires are cut DUH!:rant2: I bet if htey just replace the wires it would've worked again :thepan: :thepan:

Remember one thing NO ONE i mean ALMOST NO ONE sells a car when it's running perfectly 95% of the time a car is sold because it has 1+ things wrong with it that the seller doesn't want to bother fixing. I have yet to hear of someone buying a car and have it run perfectly fine for 12 months without some type of repair.

Trust me if this is the only thing you have to bother with then your lucky. In the future try and do some work yourself and save major major money.

I know exactly what you're talking about--in no way did I expect an 11 year old car to be problem free. I was MORE than prepared for at least a few things to go wrong.

Yes, we could have gotten it back and started to do things like the EGR, etc. in the driveway, but have neither the time or patience to tinker around with it anymore...and these guys are generally so good, that I feel a lot more comfortable with actual GM techs doing the work and getting it ALL done at once than me or someone else doing it in the drive.

It'll cost a bit (...:rolleyes: ...) but is worth it to me, especially since I'd rather get it all taken care of at once than in pieces. As for the trans, it is actually a recommended thing at 100k per GM maintenance, and the stuff that was in the car seemed like it wasn't in the best of condition...not bad at all, but fresh would be better. Remember, this was no potentially harmful flush job, just a normal fluid and filter change.

And as for future work, yes, most likely most else will be done by me. But after being dead in a parking lot and me needing the car relatively soon (plus already having one service appt. made), getting the same place to take care of it all was best.

Even though something like the window was sort of a suprise, at least it'll now be "freshly fixed" and that didn't bug me too much.

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 06:52 AM
Oh, and about the EGR specifically, what you are saying is true, but they started taking it apart and were trying to see what they could do with it (at least as a temp fix) and it was completely stuck shut, and had clearly failed some time ago...the wiring "mod" was just some idiots attempt at getting around it when it crapped out, instead of replacing it.

Still, no biggie, as I anticipated having to replace that some day anyway...did a year ago on the '93, and will soon be on the '92 Roadie.

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 06:54 AM
Im thinking maybe a fuel pump unless your out of gas. My car has run out of gas while still showing two bars on the guage. If its a fuel pump let me know I think if you get it from the dealer it will be a complete unit with the sender. I would be interested in getting your old sender for a project i have in mind.

I'll try and call today to check in on any progress, and see what they do with the parts or if they'll give the "bad" stuff back to me in a bag or something.

ocjmakaveli
03-07-06, 01:25 PM
what's the estimated total cost so far?

I would definitely recommend doing a tuneup a.s.a.p. (just plugs/wires) that will definitely give you some power.

One last thing if your egr valve was indeed stuck shut then you were missing LOTS of power. You will notice a definite increase in power now when you get it back. You should be able to peel the wheels for a minimum 2 seconds with stock tires if all is good but the longer the better.

Let us know how it feels(performance wise) when you get it back and run her hard to show her you missed being apart so much :rolleyes:

FASSTWOOD
03-07-06, 10:43 PM
Thanks caddycruiser. For your sake I hope its not the pump but I just found out you could replace just the pump without replacing the complete sender. The complete sender is about 400 bucks form the dealer. I recently replaced my fuel pump but in doing so i think i made my sender unit act up even more. If you guys get any more info on that "miracle in a bottle" from napa let me know> I might actually be willing to try some than dropping the tank again.

As far as the fuel sender harness. On my car the harness had four wires where the b body has only three. I think it would work since I think the other wire is a ground for the sender. But I didnt take a chance and added the extra wire to the b body harness just in case.

Keepus posted...

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 11:03 PM
Didn't get a chance today to call (I was running around all day, going to different interviews with the trusty old '93:thumbsup: ), but am going to tomorrow morning before I'm off again in the borrowed Suburban.

Did drive through the lot today just to do a visual check of the car again, and it looked fine, save for all the hand prints on the driver's window, most likely from efforts to get it back up in place until the parts come in to fix it.

I'm actually glad there were a few little suprises at this same time, so I can get it all taken care of at once. Problem is, I'm now wondering about getting more work done...like fresh plugs and wires, etc., since the car is at 117k and I have no idea what was last touched and when. But I think I'll wait a little bit on anything else, just until I get the car back and drive it a bit.

As far as all the parts that are on order (quite a list...), apparently the hardest one for them to get is the wiring and something else with it to replace the splice job work around the EGR, which has to be special ordered from somewhere in Michigan and they can't get it until Friday at the earliest.

SO, I'm crossing my fingers that they'll be able to get everything else done over the next couple of days with what parts they do have, and then finish up by Friday afternoon, so I can at least have one day to tinker with/drive it.:rolleyes:

Oh, and as far as how much I'm being charged, I have a rough idea, but I'm going to call and get a revised number and part breakdown tomorrow...if possible. Should be pretty...:cool:

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 11:07 PM
what's the estimated total cost so far?

I would definitely recommend doing a tuneup a.s.a.p. (just plugs/wires) that will definitely give you some power.

One last thing if your egr valve was indeed stuck shut then you were missing LOTS of power. You will notice a definite increase in power now when you get it back. You should be able to peel the wheels for a minimum 2 seconds with stock tires if all is good but the longer the better.

Let us know how it feels(performance wise) when you get it back and run her hard to show her you missed being apart so much :rolleyes:

Well, that'd be a nice suprise! I am definately expecting at least a tiny difference, but we'll see. I do wonder what, if anything, changed in the feel of the car with the little re-wiring job they did to bypass a bad EGR...:cookoo:

I do wonder how old the plugs and wire in there are though...hmm...another thing we never got a chance to check, but just assumed were fine.

caddycruiser
03-07-06, 11:16 PM
OH, and as a bit of a sidetrack, I've decided to keep the nearly new Michelin blackwalls indefinately, as well as the stock Brougham wheels unless I do pick up a set of chromes somewhere.

I was still thinking new whitewalls and chromes, but after seeing the car in person again, and from many different angles under a lot of different lighting, the blackwalls just look strangely nice with the Medium Marblehead paint...a LOT better than even in the pics I had taken.

I always used to call people out when they had one of these cars without whitewalls, but I think it depends on the color...blackwalls would look awful on the white '93, for example, but terrific on the silver '95. Even my father, the self proclaimed "whitewalls ONLY on those cars" guy, told me I was nuts when I mentioned maybe changing them out for a set of new ww's...I'm glad I listened for once.

At least I'll save some money from this:rolleyes: ...plus have some top drawer treads that should last a while, and make the car drive very nicely.

I need to get a few fresh pics taken, in some direct sunlight or something, to try and show the full "real world" effect I'm talking about.

caddycruiser
03-08-06, 08:48 AM
I think I'm going to try and make it to the summer before changing plugs & wires (but I'm going to try and find out if they've ever been changed as soon as I get the car back).

Still curious to call and see how much extra it would be to get that too thrown on the tab...:rolleyes:

The PS fluid probably could be changed too (steering feels pretty firm but also can be a tad noisy when manuevering around a parking lot, for instance)...but I think we'll try and do that in the driveway sometime. Not a mandatory thing.

Still gotta call down and get an update, if anything has come in and installation has started yet, or what...then off in the Suburban (not my favorite ride, but a pretty decent "loaner"...)

The potential BAD news...if it isn't done by Friday, I won't see it again for over a month, as I leave back to school again Sunday. Oh well, maybe sometime in the next decade I'll be able to swap in the Roadmaster climate control, change out the console, and do a few other little mods...

caddycruiser
03-08-06, 02:48 PM
More bad news, but this time it came "via mom" so I'm still a little confused as to what actually happened.

They were apparently about to do the fuel pump swap, etc., but once they got in there, whatever is around it (or attached to it) was also burnt up, so they have to replace EVERYTHING in there as one unit. I had thought this would be the case, but I don't know the specifics yet...they called her when I was out of town.

Now, really, this might change, because she had no idea what she was talking about when trying to describe to me what they told her, but I do know that there will now be another $400, approx., added to the bill.

Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering, my tally is up to $1500 now...:rolleyes: ...oh well, at least my summer job interviews are going terrificly well--I'm going to need a few jobs to keep the "almost perfect" beast running!:rolleyes:

caddycruiser
03-08-06, 04:52 PM
Well, got the answer. Asked my father, who talked to them today, and when they pulled everything down and were going to replace the pump, they found that the wires were all burnt...dadada...and we now have yet another new set of parts and addendum to the bill.

Just like BCs71 had talked about...

So, if I ever do get it back, there will be new rules:
1) Gas never goes below a half a tank
2) Limited "aggressive use" because I don't need to be replacing the less than spectacular 4L60E
3) Watching and monitoring everything like a hawk, to hopefully catch anything and everything else before it gets bad...

Oh, and if I can do it without causing any issues, most likely swapping over to Mobil 1, just because I'd feel a little better with it running on something of proven very high grade and what a lot of people with a load of problem-free miles seem to use.

ocjmakaveli
03-08-06, 10:27 PM
the $400 wires are suspicious normally the fuel pump wires don't burn....

I would be weary of a faulty job maybe they cut them or something upon removal.

Btw i would suggest buying a fuel pump from other than the dealer i mean jeez the pump dealer is 2-3 times more than a non-oem one.

$1500 for repairs I'd be dying

It's an investment though and well worth it if the repairs are done well.

Have your dad drive it for a week so if something is wrong he can take it back to the dealer a.s.a.p. don't wait a month tofind out something is wrong with the repairs it'll be harder to get it fixed as time goes on.

Put the window down like 40 times if you must to make sure it's ok etc.

BCs71
03-09-06, 10:37 AM
Just like BCs71 had talked about...

So, if I ever do get it back, there will be new rules:
1) Gas never goes below a half a tank

Oh, and if I can do it without causing any issues, most likely swapping over to Mobil 1, just because I'd feel a little better with it running on something of proven very high grade and what a lot of people with a load of problem-free miles seem to use.

Yeah, I know you don't have time or anything to do the swap yourself but honestly the dealer is replacing the whole in-works tank stuff. The sender, pump, strainer, etc.
My guess is that the pump, sender, etc is all OK. But GM only carries the sender with wiring as one part. Not the wiring harness that Napa has for $10.

So a $10 harness, a little labor on your own, and worst case scenario add in a $90 fuel pump (Napa's pricing) you could do the same thing. :eek:

But, I understand not having time and needing the car. :rant2:

Good luck, man.

caddycruiser
03-09-06, 01:20 PM
Yeah, I actually worded that a little wrong before. It wasn't that the wires alone are $400, but that they're doing EVERYTHING in there, since it all comes as one thing, and that's what the $400 was...approximately.

And yes, I have neither the time, space, or patience to go dropping gas tanks and replacing a bunch of different parts. Certainly will try in the future as things arise, but right now, I'm more than thrilled with the feedback they're giving me and how well it seems to be going...even if it is costing me some bucks.

Don't have to get my hands dirty at all...:rolleyes: ...just have to work to pay for it!

Checked in this morning, and they had just gotten all the fuel and tank stuff done, and "the car is now running again", so that's good news. The window that fell is also now finished. They were just waiting on the special wire they had to order to fix the EGR valve splice job, and then they could finish that too.

Seems to be going as well as possible, and I've gotten a few "You know, that's a REALLY nice car..." and "you really don't see many like this anymore" from them over the phone, so they're apparently enjoying looking at it...:rolleyes:

caddycruiser
03-09-06, 01:24 PM
the $400 wires are suspicious normally the fuel pump wires don't burn....

I would be weary of a faulty job maybe they cut them or something upon removal.

Btw i would suggest buying a fuel pump from other than the dealer i mean jeez the pump dealer is 2-3 times more than a non-oem one.

$1500 for repairs I'd be dying

It's an investment though and well worth it if the repairs are done well.

Have your dad drive it for a week so if something is wrong he can take it back to the dealer a.s.a.p. don't wait a month tofind out something is wrong with the repairs it'll be harder to get it fixed as time goes on.

Put the window down like 40 times if you must to make sure it's ok etc.

Good points, but yes, it is more than worth it to me, especially considering that I trust these guys more than any other repair place in the area, and they're a GM dealer, so everything is done as OEM.

I'm HOPING that they get the EGR wire in either this afternoon's shipment or first thing tomorrow, so I can swing by after work tomorrow to pick it up, and then at least have Saturday to work on some other stuff and drive it.

And as far as driving, yes, good idea...and I just may have someone at home do that. Someone had been taking it out once every week or so for a quick spin, but never noticed anything wrong, since they always were driving it after it had sat cold for a while.

caddycruiser
03-09-06, 01:28 PM
As for the future, here's my quick outlook:
-New plugs and wires
-Fresh PS fluid
-More thorough brake check, though they seem mostly fine
-MAYBE an Opti and water pump replacement just as a preventative, but that was just a thought...SSStealth's '94 was on the originals at 300k, so they don't worry me that much...

Blackwall Michelin X-Ones are staying until bald or blown (love them on this tank!), and I just have to swap in the '96 armrest, new door panel trim piece with working lock button on the one door, and also the Roadmaster climate control...

Actually, I've had that darn Roadmaster climate control just laying around since December and every time I'm about to do the swap, something prevents me...:rolleyes:

ocjmakaveli
03-09-06, 05:03 PM
dont do opti ur wasting money I'd say focus on more fulfilling mods instead of preventative things you don't need.

Opti mostly only fails because the waterpump fails and ppl don't fix it soon enough causing the opti to blow.

After many MANY MANY many MANy many Many many many WOT starts and 100+mph highway driving my opti and waterpump have held up fine.

In reality you can baby a car or treat it like dirt but whether parts last or not is all a matter of luck just make sure to fix anything that goes wrong gets fixed a.s.a.p. DON'T ever wait or at least don't drive it while something is wrong with it.

I drive my caddy hard but I do maintain it well beyond the recommended intervals and always fix it a.s.a.p. without fail whenever something is wrong.

Somehow I believe RWD cars last longer for some odd reason and all fixes are always cheaper than FWD.

Good luck but don't baby your car too much it'll backfire in the long run :stirpot:

caddycruiser
03-09-06, 06:54 PM
dont do opti ur wasting money I'd say focus on more fulfilling mods instead of preventative things you don't need.

Opti mostly only fails because the waterpump fails and ppl don't fix it soon enough causing the opti to blow.

After many MANY MANY many MANy many Many many many WOT starts and 100+mph highway driving my opti and waterpump have held up fine.

In reality you can baby a car or treat it like dirt but whether parts last or not is all a matter of luck just make sure to fix anything that goes wrong gets fixed a.s.a.p. DON'T ever wait or at least don't drive it while something is wrong with it.

I drive my caddy hard but I do maintain it well beyond the recommended intervals and always fix it a.s.a.p. without fail whenever something is wrong.

Somehow I believe RWD cars last longer for some odd reason and all fixes are always cheaper than FWD.

Good luck but don't baby your car too much it'll backfire in the long run :stirpot:

Exactly my thoughts, and a reason why I only threw that idea out there. I'm not worried about either until one or the other actually goes...there's a LOT more things that are more important.

Plugs and wires are a no brainer, as is the power steering fluid, all of which are probably going to be taken care of in the next round.

Oh, and as for the $1500, I think that figure might be a little mistaken...I'm actually thinking it will be closer to $1k even, there just was a bit of confusion after the message got relayed through a few different people....we'll see for sure, HOPEFULLY tomorrow evening.

The only other things I can foresee might be ball joints (still haven't checked them, physically), the A/C (don't expect any issues, but still haven't been able to run it yet), and one or two other random things.

96Fleetwood
03-09-06, 06:58 PM
I am sure it is $1K well spent, at least it will be good as new after this! :thumbsup:

caddycruiser
03-09-06, 09:42 PM
I am sure it is $1K well spent, at least it will be good as new after this! :thumbsup:

Precisely, and that's strangely something even my father has said. "At least this should cover most of the known or common issues, like the transmission, the bad windows, and the fuel pump."

Then again, there's also now a running joke around the house to keep guessing what might be next...whether it be ball joints, the radiator, etc.:bigroll:

OH well...I still think it's good money spent, and I know for sure it's all being done properly and quickly by people who work on nothing but GM vehicles day in and day out.

I was actually going to tell them to change out the PS fluid while it was in the garage today, but decided to pass and wait until I both re-build some funds and have more time to do it myself in the driveway.

Still crossing my fingers to get it back tomorrow evening...REALLY want to get my new console put in, new door panel trim in place, attach my really cool chrome Caddy front plate, and also clean and condition the somewhat dirty leather...not to mention get to drive the damn thing for more than a couple miles before I head back out of state again on Sunday!!:rolleyes:

caddycruiser
03-10-06, 08:04 PM
Well, the last part came in early this morning, and it was all done by 10:30. Almost a week and $1,488.20 later...:rolleyes: ...all is good again...well, mostly that is.

The window works perfectly, like it did before, and the door panel was apparently removed and re-installed perfectly. BUT, driving home, I went to move the mirrors, and the switch wouldn't do anything. I'm thinking that the wire might have fallen off or not been re-plugged in when the door panel was removed, but I don't know. Anyone know how the wiring from the mirror switch to the mirrors goes? Mine are dead now...

Oh, and since it decided to freakishly be 80 deg outside today, I thought it would be a perfect time to try the A/C on the way home...but it wouldn't cool. We were tinkering with it a bit once home, and the compressor kicks on and off just as it should, but there's no apparent cooling...any ideas? Needs re-charged maybe? Or just a fluke from a lack of use or not being used in a while?

Other than that, seemed just as smooth and quiet as before, but also seemed to really be lacking in power...I followed my dad home in the '93, and had a hard time keeping up with him at points. Not slow, per say, but definately doesn't have much "balls" at the moment. We're thinking it's because of the whole EGR mess, it being bypassed before, but now actually having a complete working valve and system in place...and maybe the computer has to reset itself a bit? Either way, I sure hope the power kicks up a notch over the next few drives...because it's definately not impressive right now.

So, what was really needed done is now done, but now at the top of the list is figuring out what exactly is wrong with the A/C, and then get done and check out the brakes and ball joints, etc., situation.

ocjmakaveli
03-10-06, 09:26 PM
well the side mirror is pretty easy just grab a screwdriver insert in in the rear of the master control piece and lift up to remove then most likely they just didn't plug int he wires for the mirror switch.

The lacking power issue is a strange one could be almost anything really needs a good diagnosing. Does it burn rubber?

caddycruiser
03-10-06, 10:30 PM
well the side mirror is pretty easy just grab a screwdriver insert in in the rear of the master control piece and lift up to remove then most likely they just didn't plug int he wires for the mirror switch.

The lacking power issue is a strange one could be almost anything really needs a good diagnosing. Does it burn rubber?

Okay, good, wasn't sure if that master control piece came off separately or not.

As far as burning rubber, didn't really try, but it really didn't feel like it had the guts to do much. Certainly not a complete slouch, but it sort of shocked me, for instance, when we had both slowed down from about 55 to 40 at the same time, but as he then accelerated and pulled away pretty quickly, I was sitting behind pressing and pressing and pressing, just waiting for the car to "hit the spot" and get moving. Had power, but certainly not an overwhelming amount.

It's going to be REALLY warm tomorrow again, so in addition to working in the morning and attempting to finish all the little things I had to get done on it, I'm going to try and drive it around a bit more and see how it all feels again.

The power thing is probably just a fluke, but I just wish I could figure out what might be going on with the A/C...right now I'm just too exhausted to get the FSM out and start reading again.

ocjmakaveli
03-11-06, 12:05 AM
just in case......you know when your going below 55 press hte gas about 1/2 way down for hte most power and above 55 press it all the way down MAKE sure you press on the top of the gas pedal.

I myself have a lazy habit of pressing on the bottom part of the pedal but that way the pedal doesn't go all the way down then when I press on the top part all the way down there's more power.

Just saying because it's an easy mistake to make which I still do sometimes lol :thepan: .

Other than that your plugs would be a good place to start along with air filter.

have you checked for missing exhaust bolts?

caddycruiser
03-11-06, 06:56 AM
have you checked for missing exhaust bolts?

Just about to, probably later today, and that's one "worry spot"...

As far as odd sounds that might indicate a leak, the only thing I've ever noticed is a really quick, almost clatter-like sound, just as it fires, almost like some kind of rattle, but not sure...especially since it's so smooth and quiet all the rest of the time and there's no other noises while driving.

So, gotta look at that, read up in the FSM about the A/C, and then just a bunch of other random things.

As far as the lack of power, it could possibly be just a fluke or my imagination, but having driven the '93 not long before, that car definately feels like it could take on the '95 and maybe even win. But, as I remember, I've been trying to drive the '95 pretty easily since I bought it, so I could have just been too light with it.

ocjmakaveli
03-11-06, 12:35 PM
If your a/c is holding refrigerant then all you need is to have it replaced it gets old.

hopefully you don't have a leak

caddycruiser
03-11-06, 07:59 PM
Well, hopefully that's true (no leak, just old R-134a). I did forget to mention, though not hard, the car was hit in the front, apparently not long before I got it. The headlights and grille, at least, were replaced, but I think some things like the actual bumper and some other stuff remain the same. Not that this has to do with the A/C directly, but it might...if there was something damaged that didn't get fixed.

Per the '93s FSM, the right fans are kicking on at the right time, as is the compressor, it just isn't cool air coming out of the vents. So, either a leak or just bad refrigerant is likely.

On ANOTHER note, got to drive it around today and got some stuff done with it (not everything, but at least some). Didn't feel that much more lively, but again, I wasn't pushing it much. Really would move when I did try it, so no biggie...just not used to it, I guess.

Did get the dead mirrors issue fixed, along with some weirdly non-operative power door lock buttons since getting it back--pulled the main switch panel up and all wires were fine, but it ended up being that a fuse had blown. Quick and easy fix.

Also got the '96 armrest in (LOVE it, SO much more than the 2 piece older one), and the new driver's door trim piece to replace the one that had a broken door lock switch in it.

And, of course, got my Villanova Engineering sticker put on the back window:thumbsup:

But, yet AGAIN, still ran out of time to get the Roadie climate control in...

More importantly, I have fallen in love with this thing...almost all that I love about the '93, but steering and ride that are SO much tighter, it's actually much nicer to drive and not a direct replica of sailing a ship.

Bowser
03-22-06, 10:54 PM
i believe i ve heard that running the tank to empty COULD cause gunk in the tank to clog the fuel line and or one of the (inline) fuel filters ... after standing a while the gunk falls away but can get sucked into a clog again when run...

caddycruiser
03-23-06, 10:51 AM
i believe i ve heard that running the tank to empty COULD cause gunk in the tank to clog the fuel line and or one of the (inline) fuel filters ... after standing a while the gunk falls away but can get sucked into a clog again when run...

Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure that is part of what happened. Like I said, the first time I test drove the car, it was on 2 notches, and then about a month passed where it wasn't driven that much, and when we picked it up, it was down to 1 notch while we did some hard runs. Then when I finally left, it was completely clear and the E light was flashing....all of which, after reading about how bad it can be for the fuel pump alone with the tank too low for too long (burns it up pretty quick b/c of the lack of cooling), was probably all part of the issue. Even thought it was driven about once a week for the next month after that.

So, after it again sat all weekend at the dealer, it then started up immediately again when they first went to try it, but again was choked for fuel when they went to start it again a couple hours later to get it out of the garage....hence, found the failed fuel pump. And at the same time, along with replacing the filter, strainer, etc., they found out that the wiring to the fuel pump was also melted and that had to be replaced.

Now that mess is all fixed and it seems to be running perfectly fine. The mirror (and power locks) issue was also fixed with a new fuse. Now the issue is trying to figure out what's wrong with the A/C, but I'm hoping it's just a recharge/refill issue and not anything leaking, etc. All the right parts seem to kick on, it just doesn't cool.

ocjmakaveli
03-23-06, 10:19 PM
A head's up my evaporator core went out on mine about 2-3 years ago because when I bought it 4 years ago the a/c never cooled much just mildly and the compressor would kick on and off because of low a/c pressure.

When i added more it kept leaking out so I was told my evap core was shot, cost me $150 for the part although the local shop wanted about $1000 to replace it because they said the dash needed to come off etc.........

I did it myself really easy took about 4 hours and now I've had perfectly ice cold air for 2-3 years.

Trust me in the long run pick up a set of good tools and most of the work you can do yourself all you need is a good brain.

caddycruiser
03-23-06, 11:26 PM
Good to know, and I'll DEFINATELY remember that when we look at it again:thumbsup:

Is the compressor supposed to kick on and off normally? It seemed odd to me, but my father thought that was normal...on, off, on, off, on just seemed strange, but I'm not overly familiar with A/C systems.

And where is the evap core specifically? Just in the middle of the dash somewhere?

ocjmakaveli
03-23-06, 11:54 PM
the a/c compressor that i know of is supposed to cycle on and off with the heater every few minutes but with the a/c on i don't think it's supposed to cycle except when it's lose on refrigerant it will cycle. Cycling being shutting off and on more than 5 times a minute.

The evap core i removed from under the dash just pulled back the carpet for clearance removed 10 small screws and that's it pretty much. not hard just uncomfortable...

There's a lot of leak areas though could be the compressor or hopefully just a fitting.

caddycruiser
03-24-06, 06:08 AM
the a/c compressor that i know of is supposed to cycle on and off with the heater every few minutes but with the a/c on i don't think it's supposed to cycle except when it's lose on refrigerant it will cycle. Cycling being shutting off and on more than 5 times a minute.

The evap core i removed from under the dash just pulled back the carpet for clearance removed 10 small screws and that's it pretty much. not hard just uncomfortable...

There's a lot of leak areas though could be the compressor or hopefully just a fitting.

Yeah, as far as the cycling, A/C on it's on for like 3 secs, off for like 3 secs, on for like 3 secs, etc., etc. I thought something about that was wrong.

I or someone will just have to check it out, and see what my specific issue is. I'm hoping minor, and crossing my fingers to that.

Lord Fleetwood
03-25-06, 03:37 PM
Oops! Put this in the wrong spot!

BCs71
03-29-06, 05:12 PM
Yeah, as far as the cycling, A/C on it's on for like 3 secs, off for like 3 secs, on for like 3 secs, etc., etc. I thought something about that was wrong.

I or someone will just have to check it out, and see what my specific issue is. I'm hoping minor, and crossing my fingers to that.

That's what my FW did when I bought it. Low on refridgerant. Pick up a refill kit (includes a gauge) at the parts store for about $20 and add it to the system and hopefully it will fix yours like it fixed mine.

caddycruiser
03-29-06, 05:32 PM
That's what my FW did when I bought it. Low on refridgerant. Pick up a refill kit (includes a gauge) at the parts store for about $20 and add it to the system and hopefully it will fix yours like it fixed mine.

I hope so. Actually, I'm also wondering if there are leaks anywhere--not that I'd automatically take it back to the dealer shop again, but they would do a pressure test first and then refill if it checked out.

After you used the refill kit, has there been any other problems? How long ago was it done?

BCs71
03-30-06, 11:19 AM
I hope so. Actually, I'm also wondering if there are leaks anywhere--not that I'd automatically take it back to the dealer shop again, but they would do a pressure test first and then refill if it checked out.

After you used the refill kit, has there been any other problems? How long ago was it done?
Ooops, yeah, I forgot to add that info to my last post. I meant to add it....

I added the refridgerant to my Fleetwood right after I got it because it was July and warm. That was in 2003. Funny thing was that my Caprice was starting to do the same thing....
SO the kit I bought had two or three cans and that was enough to do both vehicles.

No problems since then. AC blows nice and cold and if I had leaks then they weren't severe enough to leak out enough refrg in 3 years since.

If I were to get it leak checked and repaired at a shop, I would avoid the dealership and go to a local small radiator shop. Their prices are lower and they do know their stuff since it's pretty much all they do there -- radiators, cooling systems, evaporators, etc. My two cents

caddycruiser
04-05-06, 02:09 PM
I don't want to go spending unnecessary money just to mess with it and see if just some new refrigerant fixes it, so I made an appointment to have the whole A/C system checked out (pressure check and the like) next Friday.

Same dealer who did all the last work, and they aren't going to charge a whole lot to at least check it out and tell me what's wrong, if anything, so that sounds like the best idea right now.

Hopefully, by Easter (especially if it's warmer by then), I'll have cool A/C...and not be broke:rolleyes: