: 94-96 LT1 Exhaust upgrades?



N0DIH
03-01-06, 12:01 PM
I soon need to replace my mufflers, they are coming apart due to wonderful Wisconsin winters and sheer old age. Is it better to replace the whole system with an aftermarket mandrel bent pipe/mufflers for an Impala SS (and lengthen it? or does it fit?)? I like to keep it somewhat quiet, at least in the car quiet. I don't care to make it a loud machine. But I would like some better breathing after seeing the intermediate pipes crappy bends. And install a Dr. Gas crossover too. A friend of mine did one on his older Elcamino with a BB and saw no LESS than 18 hp and 12 lb ft torque across the WHOLE powerband on a dyno. Can the old system on the LT1 work on a 93 L05 car to upgrade one to duals? Or does the cross member not work with it?

caddycruiser
03-01-06, 02:09 PM
Systems and parts, such as different cat-backs for a Caprice/Impala SS do fit, they just need a bit of an extension right in the middle to compensate for the extra length. From the curve over the axle and back, such systems are compatible and fit properly out the rear once the length at the front/middle is put in.

Beyond such kits, someone else here can probably chime in about specific components....

HotRodSaint
03-01-06, 02:38 PM
I went with a Dynomax Ultra-Flow cat back, and used a Hedman X-treme X-pipe.

From my research, the X-pipe was better for torque on our 'sister cars' than an H-pipe. At least according to those who've claimed to have done a dynometer.

I'm not sure what eventually lead me to choose the Dynomax over Magnaflow. Maybe because more complaints about drone were made by those who had Magnflows?

The Dynomax comes with resonators. But even with the resonators it can still be heard inside. The sound isn't real loud or obnoxious. It's barley audible at idle, but on the highway you can hear every RPM change. I wouldn't call it a drone though.

Anyway, both were kits and the X-pipe kit took care of the additional inches need to convert the SS catback system to the FW.

I wish a little more attention was placed on fitting the X-pipe closer to the undercarriage, but other than a few extreme driveway angles, it's never been an issue. And the kit is well reinforced at the seams with an additional plate, so I'm confident it'll last. That's why I chose Hedman over others.

Leloz
03-01-06, 03:06 PM
My son has the Impala SS Borla and some sort of aftermarket headers on his 1996. I am sure he will chime in.

Katshot
03-01-06, 03:08 PM
Jeff,
Have you ever found any real data on the benefits of "H" and "X" pipes? To be honest, I'm not sure they're worthwhile on a LT1, and beyond that, I really don't like what they do to exhaust tone. I like the old-school tone of straight duals. I know the use of these things proves useful on applications that are prone to exhaust drone like the Lincoln MKVII and MKVIII but from what I've seen, it doesn't really seem to make any verifiable difference in power.

N0DIH
03-01-06, 06:12 PM
Honestly, I have never listened to a X pipe exhaust. My 80 T/A w/455 had an H pipe and it was nice sounding. Hard to make a 455 sound bad eh? Even with pathetic 2in compression bent pipe!

I guess I never thought it would hurt the sound. The h-pipes were historically known to quiet the exhaust, but I never thought it changed the note itself. I guess it should.

I guess I need to get to a car show with some Impala's and start to find out who has what and listen.

For me? Quiet is fine, I don't really want loud at all. I like the quietness of the Cad (one of the reasons I wanted this car, quiet...). My 85 Cutlass with Hooker GN Regal cat back duals with dual mufflers was great. Inside, quiet almost at all rpms. At WOT sounded healthy. Inside the car, stock exhaust was similar in noise. Outside, you could hear me coming....

I guess in reality, the only pipes I want to swap are the cat to the mufflers and install new mufflers that are decent and relatively quiet. Like the old Thrush Truck Turbo's. Long turbos that had good flow and still had it quiet.

Katshot
03-01-06, 06:48 PM
You mean the Thrush "Hush" mufflers? I had them on a couple cars. Loved Thrush mufflers. As for "H" pipes, They don't really have an affect on noise level. They help in equalizing flow and reduce/eliminate harmonic drone at cruise speeds. The "equalizing" is what causes the difference in note. Instead of a rythmic tone caused by exhaust pulses, they produce a smoothed out, more singular tone.

N0DIH
03-01-06, 07:09 PM
I had always heard the H-Pipes were better at low end torque, but it hurt some on the top end, where the X had less issues on the top end.

davesdeville
03-01-06, 07:52 PM
I had always heard the H-Pipes were better at low end torque, but it hurt some on the top end, where the X had less issues on the top end.

That's what I've always heard as well. And that both are significantly better than straight pipes. I helped install an X pipe on a LT1 Camaro for a guy I know, it did sound a bit smoother, it was cammed so I considered the smoothness an improvement but I suppose that's all subjective.

N0DIH
03-01-06, 07:57 PM
Maybe I can just pickup some of the Borla Stainless pipe (prebent) and replace the ailing bends that my exhaust has... I am not to thrilled at Borla's $914 (through Summit) Impala Exhaust! Owch! But I am sure it is slick.

HotRodSaint
03-01-06, 07:59 PM
Bummer...it looks the Impala SS forum recently did some house cleaning and now some old messages are no longer availabe. :eek:

Well from memory, the X pipe was better than the H for adding low end torque to the Impala SS. I'm pretty sure somebody had dynoed an H, an X and without. And there was a discussion about how this was against conventional wisdom.

But drone was also my concern at the time, and the X pipe was supposed to be a cure for that too. I'd say it worked.

The Hedman is not a true X, but two bends joining each other which is supposed to be the best X configuration.

As for tone, the X pipe makes the exhaust go out each side instead of the normal left to right back to left back to right. So its a deep purrr, instead of a rumble. I think it's a better tone for a luxury car.

96Fleetwood
03-01-06, 08:30 PM
Maybe I can just pickup some of the Borla Stainless pipe (prebent) and replace the ailing bends that my exhaust has... I am not to thrilled at Borla's $914 (through Summit) Impala Exhaust! Owch! But I am sure it is slick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Borla-Exhaust-System-94-96-Chevy-Impala-SS-5-7L-14504_W0QQitemZ8043048584QQcategoryZ33630QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Best money you will ever spend and just what you are looking for. It has a stock idle and can be heard if you want it to be. Best of both worlds plus lifetime warranty.

FASSTWOOD
03-02-06, 10:02 PM
I really like the sound of the borla exhaust... Its also one of the quietest exhausts out there for Imp's our our cars for that matter. Dynomax is a good flowing system from what I've heard. I never heard it behind an lt1. But they sounded great behind my 79 coupe, and my 85 fleetwood coupe with the Olds rocket 350.

My 95 has flowmasters 40 series and an H pipe. It was all custom bent at a local muffler shop. Here is a clip of it. (http://www.lt1engine.com/soundlib/eddieexhaust.wmv)

I put resonators on it now due to excessive drone... But it sonded damn good outside...

N0DIH
03-03-06, 11:52 AM
Nice sound! I don't know if I want to go that loud, but nice!

Can you record how loud it is inside, and cruise say, 55, 65 and WOT?

I wonder if custom is just plain cheaper. Get some pre bent mandrel bent pipe (stainless if I can) and bring it to a shop and have them cut and assemble it. Or just try to do it myself.

Katshot
03-03-06, 02:13 PM
Go with the Series 50 muffler (that's what I have). Nice rumble at idle, same sound and performance as the Series 40 at full throttle but with substantially lower sound levels at cruise speeds. All this equals far less drone problems. In my car, there's no drone while cruising.
Also, just as an FYI, I sent the following email to several exhaust manufacturers:

"What is your opinion of "H" and "X" pipes? Do they really offer any performance gains? If so, how much? Is one any better than the other for certain applications?"

So far, I've only recieved vague responses and one company actually stated they have no "numbers" on the performance gains. All this tells me that these items are more hype than anything. I'll post anything I get if it actually offers any facts or data to backup their claims.

BTW, the companies I sent the email to were:

1. Hedman Hedders
2. Magnaflow
3. Corsa
4. Flowmaster
5. Dynamax

Katshot
03-03-06, 02:15 PM
Here's a cool site that has reviews of different mufflers. Check it out.


http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/exhaust/mufflers/PLS_2872crx.aspx

N0DIH
03-03-06, 04:01 PM
In the reviews it is interesting how many complain about noise and others say it is too quiet....

BCs71
03-03-06, 05:59 PM
I guess I need to get to a car show with some Impala's and start to find out who has what and listen.



Better yet, give a listen to all of these clips and make your choice:
http://www.badbodies.com/exhaust/

My Caddy is in there. At that point it still had stock exhaust manifolds with stock exhaust pipes, just added an H-pipe along with two Thrush Turbo mufflers (cost $25 each at your local Napa store). With some u-clamps adn some 2.25" extension pipe (as well as 2.25" - 2" adapters) you can bolt these up in your driveway after cutting out old mufflers. Then use some creativity and make your own muffler hangers (or remove stock hangers off of mufflers and weld to new mufflers).

Bingo! CHeap replacement with a VERY mild exhaust tone.

Katshot
03-03-06, 10:31 PM
I'll never understand how someone can listen to a friggin' audio clip on the internet and think for even a second that is in anyway similar to hearing it in person. :bigroll:

HotRodSaint
03-03-06, 11:37 PM
Here's one of the links:
X-Pipe versus H-Pipe (http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000117)

It won't let me search past this year, so I looked at 70 pages to find this link.

I've got 30 more to go, but my eyes are tired. :yawn:

HotRodSaint
03-03-06, 11:47 PM
Here's another interesting link:
The Strong Silent Type (http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/exhaust2.html)

HotRodSaint
03-03-06, 11:55 PM
This link might be the reason why some people started calling them 'Slowmasters':
DYNOMAX FLOW MORE THAN FLOMSTER (http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=002411)

Ok, I read 109 pages and that's it for me tonight...

Katshot
03-04-06, 06:40 AM
Interesting links Jeff. I liked the "strong silent type" one the best. From that, I'm getting that the "X" pipe may have a beneficial affect on mid-range at least. Odd though, most people seem to claim that "X" pipes are best at top-end but that article seems to claim that neither of the cross-overs offer any improvement at higher RPMs. This may all be useless for someone like me that utilizes the stock exhaust manifolds though. I'm not sure that a cross-over will do anything unless you're running headers. Interesting though.
BTW, got yet another response from a manufacturer that states they don't have any hard numbers on cross-over performance. Odd, very odd, don't you think?

HotRodSaint
03-04-06, 10:10 AM
I liked the "strong silent type" one the best.

I'm reminded of a quote by Ulrich Baretzky, Audi Sport's Head of Engine Technology racing and Race Engine Designer of the Year for 2005, "There are loud engines and there are fast ones."


BTW, got yet another response from a manufacturer that states they don't have any hard numbers on cross-over performance. Odd, very odd, don't you think?

You find it odd that an aftermarket company jumped on a performance parts band wagon without spending money on tests? :confused: :)

Unfortunatley, I find it normal for aftermarket companies to not only rely on the research of others for the parts they make, but to use the competitors parts to make carbon copies for themselves.

I also find that many consumers ignore research when it comes to purchasing performance parts. K&N has researched 'plastic' intakes verses 'aluminum', and found a heat dissipating advantage with the 'plastic'. But the market wants shiney polished aluminum, so they cave in and give them what the market what the wants.

But leaving aside any scientific research, logic would say that an X pipe should provide a freer flowing exhaust environment verses a straight dual system, and the X should provide a less obstructive path than an H. Basic path of least resistance stuff.

The X pipe does lower the noise volume and the drone, all good features for my particular application. There is likely a performance enhancement as well, which is not undesirable for me.

So based on peoples opinions, some facts and peoples personal experience, I chose what it seemed that the majority of Impala SS owners have chosen for the last 6 years.

And as hardcore racers as some of them are, if an H or a straight dual was a better choice for performance, it'd be the Impala SS standard choice for them by now.

And some of those guys are cheap, REAL CHEAP. So saving money is as important as HP gains with them. But even they look for cheap X pipes, instead of saving money by adding none.

I'd admit to following the crowd on this. But not until I had sought to learn why the crowd was going in this direction. With so many choices on so many parts, that's all we can do. Research, research, research and then make a decision.

FASSTWOOD
03-04-06, 11:08 AM
Katshot is right. Soundclips on the web do stink, but they do give yu some sort of idea although vague. All i could tell ya is to get to meet of some sort and listen to a few exhaust systems for your self. At least there are a few choices for out there. I had a lot of drone in my car but that was because of those 3 1/2 x 16" tips i had on there. I replaced those with resonators and now im happier... Here's a pic of the megaphones i had on there...

http://www.edsautos.com/images/exh8.jpg

Katshot
03-04-06, 11:52 AM
I understand your reasoning Jeff. The one thing that I feel the need to point out is that most people (yourself included) sometimes confuse what would "seem" to be obvious, common sense physics with performance fact. Most people really don't understand the exhaust system. It's made painfully obvious by some of the choices they make with respect to parts on their cars. Most people really think bigger is better with respect to exhaust plumbing. Less restriction, freer flowing is always better, right? Well....that's not entirely correct. Flow characteristics of the exhaust system have quite a lot to do with both maximum power production AND how that power is distributed along the rev range. About the ONLY time that bigger is better is right, is at WOT. The other issue that should be considered is component size and placement. Pipe sizes, shapes and placement along the system can have great affects on both performance and sound production. There are an almost infinate amount of combinations that one can arrive at on any given car. Another point to consider is that many of these variables net tiny differences that are almost un-provable. Maybe this is a reason why many manufacturers chose not to try to qualify their claims of performance gains. Who knows? From what I've read, I still don't find that there's any great deal of conclusive evidence supporting the use of "H" and "X" pipes but, there IS a good deal of gray-area data that "seems" to say there "can" be some sort of benefit. I just may give one a shot for the hell of it. The cost is low enough that even if I don't like it, removing it would be easy. I'll let you know what I come up with.

BCs71
03-06-06, 03:08 PM
I'll never understand how someone can listen to a friggin' audio clip on the internet and think for even a second that is in anyway similar to hearing it in person. :bigroll:

Well, I like to consider listening to soundclips as a part of the research.


With so many choices on so many parts, that's all we can do. Research, research, research and then make a decision.

An educated car owner makes a happy car owner in my opinion. :bouncy:
I like to have all the resources at my disposal as possible.

Katshot
03-06-06, 03:20 PM
Well, I like to consider listening to soundclips as a part of the research.

I know what you mean, I just think this is one of those things that you gotta experience in person. Faithfully reproducing an exhaust note on your PC is not likely IMO.

BCs71
03-06-06, 03:27 PM
I know what you mean, I just think this is one of those things that you gotta experience in person. Faithfully reproducing an exhaust note on your PC is not likely IMO.

But if you turn up the volume on your speakers you can make it as loud as you want. :bighead:

:)

N0DIH
03-06-06, 05:25 PM
What, you don't have tail pipes with speakers in them on your desktop?

scurling
03-07-06, 11:52 AM
Kat:

Let me chime in on this thread. I'm in the "sooner than later position" for replacing the original exhaust on my '94s. They are both still solid, but starting to see a number of pin holes in the mufflers.

A number of years ago, I was doing some header research and there is solid evidence that the crossover pipe (H or X) provides a modest gain in low end torque. I was corresponding with "Header by Ed" about 12 years ago. They have done thousands of tests with standard and non-standard designs and they really know the engineering that goes into headers and pipes.

I'll be checking out that Borla system. The price is high, but if it will last the life of the vehicle, that's what I'm looking for. I could probably get another 3 to 4 years out of the stock system, if I pushed it (and patched it), which is pretty darn good in my opinion (15+ years). The previous stainless exhaust on my Olds only saw about 12 years before replacement was needed.

Good information guys, thanks.

Stan

Katshot
03-07-06, 12:04 PM
Stan,
Is there a way to post some data here, or links to where some data might be found. Unfortunately, I've been able to find a TON of hear-say stuff but no REAL data. When even the people who market them don't seem to suuport their use via any data, I become skeptical. I admit there "seems" to be "some" evidence that suggests there is "some" degree of value in these items but the actual amount of performance gains seem rather low compared to accoustical improvements. For that reason, I tend to think that while most applications will yield good results with respect to sound attenuation, applications that yield good performance gains are kind of up and down.

N0DIH
03-07-06, 12:42 PM
The car mags claim they are better. I'll see if I can dig up some articles on comparing.

Katshot
03-07-06, 01:26 PM
That would be great!
It's amazing how many "opinions" are out there that get submitted as "facts". Many people make statements like "...everybody agrees..." or "...we all know..." and even "...it's commonly known that..." but nobody actually has any hard data that proves it.
Some say that an "H" pipe is better on certain applications, some say the "X" is better. Some say the "H" is better at low revs and the "X" is better at high revs. Some say both are equal, some say they are no good at high revs. The quasi-facts are all over the board.

It's like debunking an urban myth.

scurling
03-07-06, 01:48 PM
Kat:

I understand your points. Unfortunately, life responsibilities have temporarily forced me to set aside the daily reading and “wish book gawking” at car and performance articles; however, I too will try to trace down some of the real dyno test results that use to keep me reading well past bedtime. :-)

ShadowLvr400
03-07-06, 02:02 PM
If you're going to go full system, true dual, with H pipe, Ravin's from Midas. They give a killer sound. If just the mufflers, still Ravins, and keep the stock piping. I recommend the mid level Z55's, which give enough rumble when you ask, but are pretty unintrusive on just cruising.

Katshot
03-07-06, 02:03 PM
That would be great. The more the merrier! I tend to think there may not be much out there though since even Jeff (Hotrodsaint) hasn't posted anything He's gotta be the KING of sourcing stuff on the net. I thought I was good but he finds stuff when I've given up. Maybe he's just got more time, I don't know. He's good though.

ShadowLvr400
03-07-06, 02:06 PM
Honestly, when it comes down to exhaust, and h vs x, the power differences are likely to be minor at best. What I have heard though is that both styles help reduce that staccato of an aging pushrod, and smooth the rumble out a bit. Something about eqalizing the pressure, blah blah blah. I dunno, I'm planning on it someday, but for now it's just duals all the way back, no crossover.

scurling
03-07-06, 02:17 PM
Believe me...I'm all for keeping things in perspective. Spending a few more hundred dollars on exhaust parts to get a few more horsepower it's my idea of money well spent on a 4500 lb.family car. Of course, I'm 50 yrs. old, not 16 any more. Hey, where's CarGuy when you need a good opinion!

N0DIH
03-07-06, 03:01 PM
I do tend to look at it 2 ways too.

If it was so good, why doesn't GM do it factory on heavy vehicles?

Cost IS an issue, but honestly, the $$ on the Fleetwood's HUGE profit margins wouldn't affect anything....

Other than if it is needed to recertify emissions, that is sorta $$.

Katshot
03-07-06, 03:28 PM
Quite often that's my argument too. "If it was so good, don't you think the OEM would use it..." blah, blah, blah.

ShadowLvr400
03-11-06, 01:39 AM
Just because its good, doesnt mean its what oem wanted. How many old duffers wanted their Cadillacs rumbling V8's heard?

HotRodSaint
03-11-06, 09:04 AM
On the flip side of the "If it were so good" argument, "If it were so useless why would NASCAR teams add the extra weight of something that had no value?"

I can understand why OEM's wouldn't add cost and weight for a low return, but I cannot understand why NASCAR would add cost and weight for no return.

N0DIH
03-11-06, 10:15 AM
It is likely there is a multitude of issues.

1. Cost per $ for the result of the change (aka, if it costs $25 to get 1lb/ft torque and 2 dB quieter exhuaust and the existing conventional design meets "spec", why bother lose the profits of it?

2. Quality of it. If it is complicated to design and manufacture, there could be quality issues in accelerated life testing. aka, if the part is good for only 100K miles before the welds fail, then it won't be acceptable to meet the 10yr/220K mile reliability requirements.

3. Quality again, if it can't meet six sigma quality and PPAP (Piece Part Approval Process) while meeting six sigma, the part could end up driving up in costs not being worth the headache.

Sometimes things being simple are just plain better....


Quite often that's my argument too. "If it was so good, don't you think the OEM would use it..." blah, blah, blah.

HotRodSaint
03-11-06, 10:15 AM
Here's an interesting Car Craft article:
H-Pipe, X-Pipe, 1, 2, 3...
(http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/69238/index.html)

Here's a twofer on Magnaflow from Vette Magazine:
The "X" Files" and "How And Why "X"-Pipes Work" (http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/vette.asp)

Here's another link on Magnaflow from a Race Pages article:
MagnaFlow-Off! (http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05racepgs.asp)

Here's a PDF of a Hot Rod article:
How Crossovers Effect Power (http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/images/h_pipes.pdf)

And lastly here's Hedman's Explanation (the sell both H and X):
THE SCIENCE BEHIND X-TREME EXHAUST EQUALIZER SYSTEMS
(http://www.hedman.com/pages/XTREME-SCIENCE.html)

Katshot
03-12-06, 06:30 AM
Here's an interesting Car Craft article:
H-Pipe, X-Pipe, 1, 2, 3...
(http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/69238/index.html)

Here's a twofer on Magnaflow from Vette Magazine:
The "X" Files" and "How And Why "X"-Pipes Work" (http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/vette.asp)

Here's another link on Magnaflow from a Race Pages article:
MagnaFlow-Off! (http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05racepgs.asp)

Here's a PDF of a Hot Rod article:
How Crossovers Effect Power (http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/images/h_pipes.pdf)

And lastly here's Hedman's Explanation (the sell both H and X):
THE SCIENCE BEHIND X-TREME EXHAUST EQUALIZER SYSTEMS
(http://www.hedman.com/pages/XTREME-SCIENCE.html)

I knew you'd come up with something Jeff! :thumbsup:
Interesting reads. After taking EVERYTHING into account, I'm guessing that an "X" pipe is probably worth looking into. I just hope it doesn't mess up my exhaust note. I really like the old-school sound of it.
Thanks Jeff.

HotRodSaint
03-12-06, 06:38 AM
I knew you'd come up with something Jeff! :thumbsup:

I'm sure there's much more out there, but that's the best I could do without spending all day on Google.

Anyway, I hope this helps you and others who are considering exhaust upgrades on their LT1 Fleetwoods.

ShadowLvr400
03-13-06, 01:24 PM
Definately gives me ideas about the future of my Fleetwood. However an X-pipe is currently not even in the top 10 things to worry about. A ton of stuff is ahead of that in line.

96Fleetwood
04-04-06, 09:33 PM
I finally uploaded the video of the Borla! Make sure to hook up your surround sound and turn up the Bass!

http://www.richmonddubs.com/gallery/albums/leloz/Image123.sized.jpg



Borla vid in Quicktime (http://www.richmonddubs.com/gallery/albums/leloz/Borla.mp4)

caddycruiser
04-04-06, 10:14 PM
Very cool clip...I think one while driving would give a lot better idea of what it really sounds like, but that one's still good. Sounds mean, but subtle--PERFECT!

At least it gives yet another look at that insane car:thumbsup:

96Fleetwood
04-04-06, 11:14 PM
Thanks! I am going to get my girlfriend to videotape a few driving vids from the outside and inside of the car :thumbsup:

BCs71
04-05-06, 04:18 PM
I finally uploaded the video of the Borla! Make sure to hook up your surround sound and turn up the Bass!

Borla vid in Quicktime (http://www.richmonddubs.com/gallery/albums/leloz/Borla.mp4)

With your permission, I'd love to add your soundclip to the collection at http://www.badbodies.com/exhaust/
Please let me know if it is ok!

What is your full mod list? Any modifictaions to the Borla catback?


Thanks! I am going to get my girlfriend to videotape a few driving vids from the outside and inside of the car
Would love to add those clips to the site as well! LMK

96Fleetwood
04-05-06, 04:43 PM
Sure you can use the vid on site. I will let you know when I make the driving videos.

I have a X-pipe welded with the Borla to make up the extra inches I needed over the Impala SS. The resonators are still on.

My entire mod list:

K&N FIPK, 1LE elbow, Borla Cat-back, 17X8.5 Chrome SS wheels, Bilsteins, SS springs, Hotchkis F&R sways, CAs, Tinted Tails, PIAAs... for now.

Take care,
Elias

N0DIH
04-05-06, 05:13 PM
Nice!


I finally uploaded the video of the Borla! Make sure to hook up your surround sound and turn up the Bass!

Borla vid in Quicktime (http://www.richmonddubs.com/gallery/albums/leloz/Borla.mp4)

attilahooper
09-28-06, 08:21 AM
So, was there any kind of agreement which replacement muffler was quietest at idle or cruising speed ? I do recall someone mentioning the Dynomax UltrafloSS from 'that other forum', which just can't keep its chit together., errrr.

So what say ye, to me taking the sawzall to my perfectly good stock mufflers ? I want it to be quiet unless I am close to WOT. Does anyone have a part # for our B-D body application for the dynomaxes ?? Well, I'll find that, I cant be too lazy now :). More importantly, anyone have a basic muffler swap, no x or h pipe and the dynomaxes ? how do you like em ?? thanks in advance.

BCs71
09-28-06, 01:38 PM
I have the Dynomax SUper Turbos added into stock pipes with resonators still. I also have an H-pipe which also somewhat contributes to less noise, I think.
I think this would be about as quiet as any exhaust setup would be for a B/D body vehicle since I've had it for three years now. At WOT you can finally tell it isn't stock. Otherwise it is just a tiny hair louder than the stock setup.

Without the H-pipe it would be considerably louder at cruising speeds and especially WOT. I have a similar muffler setup with no H-pipe on my LT1 Caprice with stock pipes and there is a noticeable sound level difference.

I have since cut the resonators off my Caprice and the sound level went up considerably. IMO it is too much for a daily driver even though it is MUCH quieter than aftermarket catback exhaust systems (except Borla). I, however, like my daily drivers to be on the quiet side except for WOT.
I plan to put the resonators back on my Caprice soon...
Most other people would like the growl that it makes, though.

This thread may help you out with Dynomax part numbers: </title> </head> <body> <table width="100%" height="152" border="0" background="darkbluegradient.gif"> <tr> <td width="27%" height="128"><img src="vaderheader.jpg" width="100%" height="129"></td> </tr> <TR> <td width="100%" height="24" align="CENTER" (http://www.impalasuperstore.com/naisso/forum2005/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39367)

96Fleetwood
09-28-06, 03:02 PM
I want it to be quiet unless I am close to WOT.

Borla!

attilahooper
09-29-06, 08:25 AM
Thx, thats exactly what I wanted to know.

I'll have to wrap my head around this and figure on getting a dr gas x-pipe to complement the dynomaxes or just throw in the towel and buy the borla setup, which is probably what I'm gonna need to do when I start the motor upgrades. And since my brother was getting all pissy about me taking up space in his shop perhaps its easier to get the bolt-on setup.

N0DIH
09-29-06, 11:29 AM
My plans are budget limited right now, but I plan on going with an X-Pipe on the stock exhaust for now, at least that doubles the exhaust flow after the X. And allows some additional scavenging from the other pulses (Jim and Tom Hand did a good article on this with real 1/4mi times to support true duals, X and H pipes, X was faster on all runs, with faster 60 foot times to boot, by around 0.1 seconds, and .2 to .4 faster down the 1/4mi with 1-2 mph faster traps).

My honest reason is part throttle economy and power more than WOT. If it helps part throttle economy I will be quite happy.

HotRodSaint
09-29-06, 07:57 PM
Borla!

I'd agree. Borla is known for tuning their exhausts for the sound, at the expense of performance.

Rick186
09-29-06, 08:44 PM
Mr. Saint brings up a really interesting point!!!!!
Back when dinosaurs were upon the earth and I had my 1960 Mercedes 220Sb, I was active in the Local Mercedes clubs. They staged an interesting meet with the techs from Germany and showed what exhaust tuning can do.
They took a stock 220SE around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway at whatever speed it was (I forgot since it's been some decades, now) and then took the muffler - which was at the extreme rear, beside the fuel tank just in front of the rear bumper - off).
Thus the car had a straight pipe from motor to outside world.
THE CAR LOST 3 MILES PER HOUR TOP SPEED!
I forgot what it lost in accelleration, but that 3mph stuck with me since it was the average of 5 laps (2 1/2 per lap) and the day was a gorgeous summer and almost windless day.
So tuned exhaust means one whole bunch.
Mr Saint . . .You may be dissuading me from getting that Borla system I've been drooling over!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :thepan:

ShadowLvr400
09-30-06, 05:13 AM
I went for sound on my vehicle, and hoped for a bit of performance. I got Ravin mufflers through Midas because of similar flow to Flowmasters, but a deeper sound. On my Eldorado, they made for a bigger sounding engine than the 4.6 really was. I actually had a nice, deep grumble that sounded like a 350 Camaro. On this Fleetwood, with its bigger 350.... *purr* At idle, it's a small grumble that you only barely hear, but feel resonating through when you stand outside the car. At WOT.... Holy crap it's loud and sinister sounding. Even with my current leaks from 2 exhaust header bolts being sheared off. I can't wait till I can rebuild the motor and turn it into a 383 stroker. Even the 218/224 cam that will be going on sometime within the next 6 mo should be quite fun to listen to.

HotRodSaint
10-02-06, 01:19 PM
On the Impala SS forum, a majority of Impala SS owners seemed to lean towards Flowmaster or Dynomax cat back systems over all the other brands.

Within that group of people, there were many who claimed that the Dynomax system was quieter (as well as less prone to droning) and also performed better than the Flowmasters.

So I chose Dynomax because it was claimed to be the more quiet exhaust system, in hopes that the claim of better performance was also true.

I started my own research with no favorite brand and I am very happy with my choice. Other people might find that other brands better meet their own specific criteria. Dynomax and Flowmaster should be at the top of anyones list.

N0DIH
10-02-06, 01:30 PM
I just want the car to not loose the Cadillac aura, quick and quiet.

I had the Hooker Super Comp exhaust on my 350 Olds Cutlass (1985 car) and loved it. Never heard much inside, no drone, but outide it did have a good tone. (Reference Manual: Chapter 9: Exhaust: Hooker Dual Outlet System (http://tech.oldsgmail.com/exhaust_hooker.php) and listen to it, this is a stone stock 77 350 Olds using 1985 Olds 307 CCC computer controls, no cat)

I could live with that system on my Cad. But would prefer quieter...

HotRodSaint
10-02-06, 01:37 PM
I just want the car to not loose the Cadillac aura, quick and quiet.

I had the Hooker Super Comp exhaust on my 350 Olds Cutlass (1985 car) and loved it. Never heard much inside, no drone, but outide it did have a good tone. (Reference Manual: Chapter 9: Exhaust: Hooker Dual Outlet System (http://tech.oldsgmail.com/exhaust_hooker.php) and listen to it, this is a stone stock 77 350 Olds using 1985 Olds 307 CCC computer controls, no cat)

I could live with that system on my Cad. But would prefer quieter...

I think that sound leans more towards the Flowmaster sound, especially the hollow tinny sound.

My Dynomax system is quieter than that, although the X-pipe might also play a contribution.

BCs71
10-02-06, 01:42 PM
Yep, in my experiences with hearing other peoples' cars, a crossover pipe really does a lot to tame the sound of an exhaust system.
Dynomax would be too loud for my tastes on my Caddy, but then again I've never heard it with an X pipe so I bet it's quite a bit different!

Borla is one of the quietest systems I've ever heard in terms of complete catbacks.
My Caddy is the quietest, by far, exhaust systems I've ever heard. Granted, I have stock pipes still which are smashed 2.25" into the muffler and only 2" at the tailpipes (about 1 7/8" at some bends, actually) and it is definitely restrictive.
But the resonators, muffler choice, and H-pipe probably largely keep the sound quiet as well.

HotRodSaint
10-02-06, 01:54 PM
Dynomax would be too loud for my tastes on my Caddy, but then again I've never heard it with an X pipe so I bet it's quite a bit different!

I should also mention that the Dynomax cat back system for the Impala SS comes with resonators. The Flowmaster didn't and I'm not sure about Borla.

I can hear the exhaust in the car, but it's never obtrusive. I wouldn't want anything louder and I'm not so sure I would want anything quieter.

One day, I'll figure out how to record and host a wav file.

96Fleetwood
10-02-06, 07:19 PM
Borla comes with resonators and is almost as quiet as stock at idle. You can hear it only when you give a good amount of throttle and at WOT it sounds like a jet :thumbsup:

Rick186
10-02-06, 08:02 PM
Borla comes as stainless.
Does Dynomax?
Does anybody else?

96Fleetwood
10-02-06, 08:04 PM
Borla comes as stainless.


And a lifetime warranty to boot!:highfive:

N0DIH
10-02-06, 11:19 PM
That .wav file was recorded within a few days of install, it did louden up a little bit as it was driven more. It wasn't tinny like a FM, I don't think the camcorder I recorded it on was able to get the bass much, but it had a good solid deep tone, many who heard it in person really liked it. Unfortunately care is gone to the boneyard now (If I could have saved it I would have, I was a few hours too late!)

What size pipes does the FW have? Same for intermediate pipes and after mufflers?


I think that sound leans more towards the Flowmaster sound, especially the hollow tinny sound.

My Dynomax system is quieter than that, although the X-pipe might also play a contribution.

HotRodSaint
10-03-06, 10:09 AM
What size pipes does the FW have? Same for intermediate pipes and after mufflers?

Is this addressed to me and my system? It's 2.5 from the X-pipe back.

If it's a general question on the FW. I'm not really sure what the size the stock pipes are.

To address another post.

The Dynomax system is stainless steel mufflers with aluminized pipes.

And for comparison, the cost at Summit for the Dynomax is $469.95. Flowmaster has two kits, one is $459.95 and the other is $489.95 (w/ resonators). And the Borla kit is $914.99.

Summit Racing - High Performance Car and Truck Parts | 800-230-3030 (http://www.summitracing.com/)

96Fleetwood
10-03-06, 12:04 PM
eBay Motors: Borla Exhaust System 94-96 Chevy Impala SS 5.7L 14504 (item 180022943886 end time Oct-27-06 09:22:26 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Borla-Exhaust-System-94-96-Chevy-Impala-SS-5-7L-14504_W0QQitemZ180022943886QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3363 0QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Borla for $788.88

My friend's Flowmaster took 4 years of Chicago winters before it was in pieces.. he wishes he went with the Borla because he now has over $1K of Flowmaster exhaust and his current setup is also starting to rust.

N0DIH
10-03-06, 06:35 PM
What ticks me off is Borla won't sell pieces, only a system or mufflers, not the pipes themselves.