Hello

I have a question regarding the removal of 93-94 Northstar 32V engine STS...Is the bottom removal with unbolting the cradle the best and easiest way to remove the engine?? Is engine removal from the top possible??

The salvage yard has an engine hoist but I'm not sure I can lift the front of the car high enough to slide the engine out from under it....The car does not run or move, it has no tires and it's sitting on the ground now...This a Pick-and-Pull yard so I have to do ALL the work by myself to pull the engine....So I'm thinking maybe pulling the engine from the top might be a better solution based on the tools I have...Any suggestions??

Thanks - VK

I dont think there is any easy way to remove the engine from the vehicle from the top. I am almost 100 percent certain the engine has to come out from UNDERNEATH the vehicle due to the transverse FWD mounting.

Yeah, it can come out the top. It's easier to take it out of the bottom, but in your situation, it would be best to go straight up.

Okay, thanks for the replies, so now I'm MORE CONFUSED than before....

Please READ my original post carefully and THEN post your suggestion.....The car is in a JUNK YARD (not in my yard)....I only have access to an engine hoist, jacks and hand tools (no power tools)....The car is sitting on the ground (no wheels)....I can NOT move or start this car (no keys)....

So now that you've read the same description TWICE, let me know what's the best way to proceed.....I know the factory manual says the engine comes out the bottom along with the cradle....I was hoping for anyone has taking it out from the top and maybe post his experience here....I'm sure it can be done EITHER WAY but given the limited amount of tools and time (I need to get it done in 2 days max) maybe there is a smart/easier way to do with without breaking my back....

Thanks again - VK

Okay, thanks for the replies, so now I'm MORE CONFUSED than before....

Please READ my original post carefully and THEN post your suggestion.....The car is in a JUNK YARD (not in my yard)....I only have access to an engine hoist, jacks and hand tools (no power tools)....The car is sitting on the ground (no wheels)....I can NOT move or start this car (no keys)....

So now that you've read the same description TWICE, let me know what's the best way to proceed.....I know the factory manual says the engine comes out the bottom along with the cradle....I was hoping for anyone has taking it out from the top and maybe post his experience here....I'm sure it can be done EITHER WAY but given the limited amount of tools and time (I need to get it done in 2 days max) maybe there is a smart/easier way to do with without breaking my back....

Thanks again - VK



You honestly think you will get any worthwhile replies with that kind of attitude?

Not to mention I beleive it was just said you can pull it from the top, but dropping it is easier. But given your situation, you will just need to work a little more and pull it up.

Also, given your kindness, if you want advice from someone who has pull it from the top.. Use the God damn search button.

Thanks for your timely advice, once again pal....

I'll ask my doc to give me an "attitude" adjustment next time I see him.....In the meantime, you know you can do with yourself...or do I need to spell it out for you...:tisk:

I wouldn't have replied with a definate answer if I didn't read your post completly and done this myself.

Thank you again for your response and I will follow your advice....

It's easy to get confused when one person says "do it this way" and another person said something different...But it makes more sense in my situation to follow your lead..

Much appreciated - VK

I read the thread and know where it's at. I would still drop the cradle out the bottom and try to take everything I could. Actually you are lifting the body off the cradle.

You need something like a movers dolly to pull the cradle out from under the body. You could make one or buy one at Harbor freight. Making might be better but takes longer. PJS had a thread with pics of the one he made.

You use the engine hoist to raise the body off the cradle. It is just like doing a VW...funny how everyone talked about how easy VW's were but freak on Caddy's when it's the same.

Since you're not too concerned about the body maybe you can pull it sideways away from the cradle and set it on old wheels or on the ground. Even if you don't want the cradle/trans this is probably easier than pulling the engine alone out the top.

Look here for a couple of pics.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/23672-cradle-dolly.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/5052-n-head-gasket-repair-part-i.html

I disagree, in that situation, it would be better to take it out the top. It's really not THAT hard.

1. Hood
2. Electric connections.
3. Fuel Lines.
4. Motor Mounts.
5. Transmission Bolts
6. Flywheel bolts.
7. AC lines.
8. Radiator lines.


The hardest part is going to be the flywheel and transmission bolts, everything else is a snap. Now if you take it out the bottom, you have to deal with the rack and pinion, the struts, the subframe bolts and the wheels. All of which are going to be a PITA when the car is not on jackstands.

I disagree, in that situation, it would be better to take it out the top. It's really not THAT hard.



The hardest part is going to be the flywheel and transmission bolts, everything else is a snap. Now if you take it out the bottom, you have to deal with the rack and pinion, the struts, the subframe bolts and the wheels. All of which are going to be a PITA when the car is not on jackstands.


The flywheel bolts are easier once the body is lifted up, rack and pinion is only one pinch bolt, struts are 6 nuts on top of the towers, 6 subframe bolts and no wheels...I'd still take it out the bottom

I have some information on taking it out the top, which includes information like this. I will post it back later tonight.


JC316
1. Hood
2. Electric connections.
3. Fuel Lines.
4. Motor Mounts.
5. Transmission Bolts
6. Flywheel bolts.
7. AC lines.
8. Radiator lines.

Some steps you won't need to do obviously...

1993 Cadillac Seville STS
1993-94 ENGINES 4.6L V8
Removal
1. Scribe line around hinge on inner hood panel to mark hinge for reassembly. Remove hood light connector
and hood supports. With the aid of a helper, remove hinge-to-hinge bolts and hood. remove tower-totower brace.

2. Disconnect battery and remove air cleaner inlet duct. Drain engine coolant. Remove left and right torque
struts. Reinstall bolt in torque strut bracket at left front of engine to be used as an engine lift point.

3. Disconnect radiator hoses at water crossover. Remove both cooling fans. Remove serpentine accessory
drive belt. Disconnect cruise control servo connections. Disconnect Idle Speed Control (ISC) motor
electrical connector.

4. Hold throttle completely open and push throttle cable toward intake manifold until released. DO NOT
kink cable. DO NOT use screwdriver or other sharp tool for removing cable.

5. Disconnect shift cable from park/neutral switch and cable bracket at transmission. Remove park/neutral
switch. Disconnect power brake hose. Remove intake manifold. See INTAKE MANIFOLD & SEALS . (SEE ATTACHED PDF)

6. Remove starter motor. Disconnect cylinder head temperature switch at rear of right head. Remove
bellhousing bolts. Remove ignition coils and spark plug wires. Raise vehicle.

7. Remove oil pan-to-transmission brace. Remove torque converter splash shield and remove 4 converter-toflywheel bolts. Disconnect oil cooler lines at oil filter adapter. Remove A/C compressor mounting bolts
and electrical connections. Set compressor aside.

8. Disconnect electrical connections from left side of engine. Move harness from behind exhaust manifold.
Remove 2 nuts securing motor mount to engine cradle front crossmember. Remove "Y" pipe.

9. Remove right front wheel and remove crankcase-to-transmission bracket at transmission tail shaft.
Disconnect knock sensor. Remove bolt from transmission-to-cylinder head brace at cylinder head. Lower
vehicle.

10. Disconnect fuel inlet and return lines using Fuel Line Disconnector (J 37088). Disconnect injector
harness connector. Disconnect hoses from coolant reservoir and remove reservoir. Disconnect cam
position sensor. Disconnect heater hoses from water pipes at front of right cylinder head.

11. Disconnect battery cable from junction block and remove retainer at cylinder head. Disconnect P/S pump
pressure and return lines at pump. Remove P/S line retainer at right front of crankcase. Disconnect rear
oxygen sensor. Remove 3 screws securing wiring harness retainer to right cam cover and position harness
aside.

12. Connect an engine lifting fixture to engine using support hooks at left rear and right rear of engine. Use
torque strut bracket at left front of engine for a third lift point. A load tilting device such as Kent-Moore
(J 39456) will provide needed adjustment. Remove engine using caution as space is very limited.

This is not from experience, just documentation I have.

Can you remove the front end of these cars? (e.g., grill, headlights, bumper, radiator support, etc...) I've done this on a few cars (not Caddys). Some were simple wrenching affairs while others required a sawzall to remove the radiator support. With the entire front end removed, you can simply pull it straight out of the front.

Just a thought...

Mike

OK goyal99...where does this stand?

dadssls
My initial thought on this was use a cordless sawzall...it's in a scrap yard anyways, or even a portable torch.

I believe the rad support has spot welds as well as sealer like glue. sledge and a sharp chisle would work too, just more effort.

dadssls
My initial thought on this was use a cordless sawzall...it's in a scrap yard anyways, or even a portable torch.

I believe the rad support has spot welds as well as sealer like glue. sledge and a sharp chisle would work too, just more effort.

Personally, I would go with either a cordless sawzall or hacksaw with lots of blades. No sense risking a major fire on someone elses property.

Mike

Hi folks - just a quick update on the situation:

I have been able to raise the car off the ground (it wasn't easy) and now the front end is sitting on old spare tires....The problem now is the limited space to work around the vehicle 'cause other junk cars are around it....It might be a tight fit to use an engine hoist at this point.

My plan is to rise the car enough so I can unbolt the entire cradle and suspension together....Then drop everything and slide it out...I might have to unbolt the suspension to make some room first....I'll see how it goes.

Below is a photo how the car sits now on spare tires and rims...Thanks everyone who contributed their suggestions and ideas....It would have been a lot easier and simpler if I was doing this at home but in a junk yard no torch or open flame is allowed :tisk:

Anyway, I will keep you posted on my progress if anyone is interested....Regards - Vasilis

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/baisden44/CIMG0354a.jpg


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/baisden44/CIMG0415a.jpg

Sliding the cradle out is a good option. A piece of plywood may work to slide it on.

Will they let you cut all the wiring, hoses,etc? That would make it very easy to drop out. The only issue would be having something high enough to hold the body up so you can slide the cradle out. Are there enough wheels & tires to do that?

Removing the struts saves quite a bit of height. We left them on to make it easier to reinstall but you don't have that concern.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I think I will probably have to drop the suspension first, like you said, to save on the weight...As far as using old wheels/tires to lift the car yes there are plenty to chooce from in a junk yard...:)

My problem might be when I go back on Monday to find a jack with a high lift to keep raising the car.....It a pain to do this without the proper tools and engine hoist but that's all I have to work with...

I've already unplugged all the wiring from the firewall and disconnected all the AC and heater lines...

On a side note: does anyone know the wheel bolt pattern of this car?? What other cars use the same pattern??
Thanks for your help.


VK

Use the engine hoist to lift the car. Wrap a strap around the radiator support and hook that to the hoist.

This would suck if you went back and someone else took the engine.

This would suck if you went back and someone else took the engine.

:gun:

I'll KILL them - - - :) LOL

Believe me I made sure nobody can even look in the engine bay!!....I secured the hood with a lock (I had to be creative) then locked the doors and took the key! I know, it's a little sneaky but I don't want to be suprised when I go back on Monday morning....

VK

As for the wheel specs, I believe it's 5x114.3, 40mm offset. That's what my ETC is anyway.

As for the wheel specs, I believe it's 5x114.3, 40mm offset. That's what my ETC is anyway.

Thank you!

i used a slotted 6x6 across the two jacking points on the car behind the wheels wells. Got a buddy to jack up one side as i jacked up the other at the same time. pulled the motor out the front from the bottom with plenty of clearance. I doubt they'll notice if you throw a jack under the car and just lift it... i mean who cares if the bottom gets dented somewhat its in a junkyard and nothing underneath is usable really. Also i dont think ive seen anyone mention this but you should unbolt the exhaust at the cat if your taking in out the front and at the crossovers if your taking it out one of the sides.

Good point....I took care of unbolting the exhaust and all the engine wiring coming from the firewall today....It was a freaking cold day so needless to say I did not get very far...I have taken out the radiator, water and AC lines, the heater core from the firewall and disconnected the brake and fuel lines...Sliding the engine straight out the front might be a problem because the space is too tight as there's another junk car blocking my path....I will attempt to take it out the side for now and see what happends....

Thank you for your suggestion - VK

The brake lines you shouldnt really have to undo. Unbolt the 3 squish bolts around the abs module/valve, tie the module up around the fender or hang it and it should clear freely as far as i can remember. I'm not sure if anyones asked this yet but what are you using the motor for? transplant, sandrail, fiero?

How is the removal coming along?? May I ask where the car is located, I really need some lower body panels and perhaps other body stuff off it. Good luck on your project!

Just forget about it. Get a rear drive muscle car.

How is the removal coming along?? May I ask where the car is located, I really need some lower body panels and perhaps other body stuff off it. Good luck on your project!

Hello...Yes, the engine/cradle is finally out (from the bottom) but thank God the guy at the bone yard helped me lift it out to my truck....There was NO WAY to move this beast an inch with all the suspension stuff attached...Anyway, I have the cradle separated and the front suspension disconnected now....I also have all the wiring and ECMs.

As far as getting lower body panels off I will need to know what you need...I already took the doors off and the hood to sell them on eBay...All the body panels are intact and in VERY GOOD shape - no dents or major scratches. I'm not planing of going back anytime soon but I might take a trip for other car stuff I need (non Caddy related).....

So if you need something off this '93 Caddy (body panels only) let me know and see what's left on it when I go back....There is NO INTERIOR in the car...The rear suspension and brakes are still there as well as the interior headliner (cream color) and rear end including rear lid, glass and rear bumper.

VK


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/baisden44/93STSengine2.jpg


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/baisden44/93STSengine3.jpg

Whistle while you work...

Shes a beaut ehh!!!

I love to see the N* Sitting there in all of nakedness.

I need these panels (see pictures) for both sides. Also is the grille in good condition with the embelem on it?

I need these panels (see pictures) for both sides. Also is the grille in good condition with the embelem on it?

I think the lower panels are still on the car (if I can remember correctly)...No front grill though, no emblems anywhere....

I'll let you know what's left on the car the next time I visit the yard.

VK

Good job....but I think I see a crack in the block....
j/k
I know, I'm a flippin party pooper.

The simplest solution would be to disconnect all engine mounts and wiring harness and then use the engine hoist to LIFT THE CAR!

Yeah...I know...SHUT UP....

BTW Thats Mr. Pollack to you!

The simplest solution would be to disconnect all engine mounts and wiring harness and then use the engine hoist to LIFT THE CAR!

Yeah...I know...SHUT UP....

BTW Thats Mr. Pollack to you!

Well, there's no shortage of idiots in every forum who always repeat the obvious and provide no real service or usefull advise to anyone (except maybe increase their own pathetic response count)...:thehand:

I'm good at ignoring those anyway....:yawn:

On to the next project....bringing to life a crancking (but not starting) 1991 Caddy DeVille 4.9L engine. I purchased the car like this for next to nothing and I'm hoping to hear it run soon....

VK

pm me if the foglights are still on it.