: EGR Valve , need help locating it



laurieH
01-04-04, 03:56 PM
HI,

I have come to this site often and have found lots of info but never have posted before. I need help locating my EGR valve. I think it is open or clogged and wanted to try fixing this myslef. I have donea lot of small repairs to my car and recently had it in the shop for 2 weeks fixing an engine oil leak and spent $2250 and really want to do this one myself. I am actullay thinking mabye the valve was messed with while it was in the shop, since the code came up about two days later??? who knows. But if anyone can tell me or if anyone has a good picture I would sure appreciate it. I have the repair manual I bought but it is real hard to tell from the diagram where this is. Is this easy to do???? I changed a map sensor in a car I had previous and had no trouble with that but honeslty do not know much about this one.

Thanks
Laurie

laurieH
01-04-04, 04:03 PM
I am sorry, forgot to write about car



94 seville STS

ellisss
01-04-04, 04:07 PM
Uhhhhh... assuming you have a Northstar? :halo:

It's near the #8 intake manifold runner. Standing in front of the car, looking to the rear, it will be just *right* and rear of the center.

There are two 10mm fasteners holding it down. The fuel lines are bolted to the top of one of the fasteners. You don't have to remove any fuel lines... but you MUST be extremely careful when moving them out of the way. A broken fuel line will at a minimum cost you hundreds of dollars, and at a maximum burn your car to the ground.

The EGR gasket is *usually* re-useable. If it appears damaged or peeled away at all, then replace it (inexpensive).

The most common problem with Northstar EGR valves is carbon clogging or contamination. I can't tell yo how many times I've bopped-off a Northstar EGR only to find a tiny particle of carbon holding the pintle off of it's seat.

Another possibility is clogged passages in the intake manifold. Not nice, nor is it easy to alleviate.

I could fill an entire thread six miles long with my adventures in removing carbon from intakes and ring grooves on Northstar engines. :crying: GM has even replaced entire motors under warranty due to carbon contamination. No longer, though, as there is now both a special procedure and special tools made specifically to deal with this on the Northstar.

As usual, I will say that you are playing with disaster (financially) by not having a qualified technician do this for you.

--
Ellisss

laurieH
01-04-04, 08:23 PM
Uhhhhh... assuming you have a Northstar? :halo:

It's near the #8 intake manifold runner. Standing in front of the car, looking to the rear, it will be just *right* and rear of the center.

There are two 10mm fasteners holding it down. The fuel lines are bolted to the top of one of the fasteners. You don't have to remove any fuel lines... but you MUST be extremely careful when moving them out of the way. A broken fuel line will at a minimum cost you hundreds of dollars, and at a maximum burn your car to the ground.

The EGR gasket is *usually* re-useable. If it appears damaged or peeled away at all, then replace it (inexpensive).

The most common problem with Northstar EGR valves is carbon clogging or contamination. I can't tell yo how many times I've bopped-off a Northstar EGR only to find a tiny particle of carbon holding the pintle off of it's seat.

Another possibility is clogged passages in the intake manifold. Not nice, nor is it easy to alleviate.

I could fill an entire thread six miles long with my adventures in removing carbon from intakes and ring grooves on Northstar engines. :crying: GM has even replaced entire motors under warranty due to carbon contamination. No longer, though, as there is now both a special procedure and special tools made specifically to deal with this on the Northstar.

As usual, I will say that you are playing with disaster (financially) by not having a qualified technician do this for you.

--
Ellisss

laurieH
01-04-04, 08:48 PM
HI

Thanks for replying to the thread. Yes I have a northstar 4.6 I looked for the egr valve and can't find it, I probably will have it in tomororw to get looked at.

Is this an exhaust issue (becasue I have someone who does exhaust work on my car or is this something else?? Also can you give me an idea on what it should cost give or take. So far I have had some really pricy trips to the mechanic and I love my car but need to be prepared for the worse usally, lol.

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

Laurie

ellisss
01-04-04, 10:01 PM
HI

Thanks for replying to the thread. Yes I have a northstar 4.6 I looked for the egr valve and can't find it, I probably will have it in tomororw to get looked at.

Is this an exhaust issue (becasue I have someone who does exhaust work on my car or is this something else?? Also can you give me an idea on what it should cost give or take. So far I have had some really pricy trips to the mechanic and I love my car but need to be prepared for the worse usally, lol.

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

Laurie
Hi Laurie.

After re-reading this thread, I've decided upon some suggestions I feel might be appropriate...

Often, the service indicator on your instrument panel will come on for no good reason. It's a shame, but there are so many possibilities for false codes... and also many driveability problems that you may notice are related to problems that aren't mechanical or electrical in nature.

I suggest the following:

First, make absolutely sure that the mechanic or shop you bring your car to for service is trustworthy, honest, and fair. Personally, I have quit jobs at both dealerships and independant shops because they were in the habit of ripping-off their customers. Here's a couple of hints...

---Bring a couple of boxes of cookies or doughnuts with you, and drop one of them at the service counter, and the other one at the shop foreman's desk or even better ~~ the specific mechanic that will be working on your car. I know it sounds funny, but when people are on the receiving-end of kindness, it's harder to give treatment that is less than superb.

---Ask to see the qualifications of the mechanic who will be diagnosing and repairing your vehicle. If there is any tap-dancing as to why there are none, or you aren't shown what you ask to see... run away quickly, and take your car with you.

---Mention to the service writer (or the person who makes you sign the repair order giving permission to work on the car) that you have a relative/spouse/friend in another state who is a qualified GM technician... and also that this person will be reviewing your estimate and any repairs completed.

---Absolutely, without a doubt, request that you be given any and all old parts that are replaced.

---Also an absolute must, make sure they understand that they are to diagnose the problem and report to you only. Say that you authorize no repairs until you see a detailed estimate, and are given enough time to consult with your out-of-state friend/spouse/relative. Allow a single hour of labor for the initial diagnosis. While sometimes a proper diagnosis requires morte than an hour, they must stop and confer with you before continuing... and also supply the results from any testing done up to that point.

---Expressly insist that along with the initial hour of diagnosis, you want them to clear all the codes from the PCM/VCM, and also reset the fuel trim. This will allow you to drive the car for the next few days to see if any fault codes re-appear. If the 'check engine' light was on, and the codes were set without due reason, then they won't re-appear. You'll still have to pay for the hour's diagnosis and clearing the codes... but that's all. (also, the code clearing should definitely be included in the hour of diagnostic work you authorize.)

If you are actually having a problem with the EGR system, then I can almost positively say that it's because of excessive carbon buildup in the EGR valve. (here's where the cookies or doughnuts help.) Explain to the mechanic or service writer that you aren't willing to spend a penny more on repairs than you already have in the past 30 days. Ask them, if they find a carbon problem, to remove and clean the EGR valve. This is as much of a fix as replacing the valve would be on a motor with a severe carbon problem. A new EGR valve on a carbon saturated motor will quickly get dirty and possibly stick... and aside from that, carbon can easily dislodge from the exhaust side of the system and stick open a new EGR valve.

In reality, the best fix for a carbon saturated Northstar is to allow a Cadillac dealer to use the tools and procedures designed specifically for this problem. It's a slightly expensive procedure. All the spark plugs are removed, and all the cylinders are filled with a special solvent. The solvent is left in a hot motor for two hours, and then vacuumed out with another special tool. All of this is explained in detail on a recent (last year) technical service bulliten released by General Motors. Not part of the procedure, but something that I did each and every time I sold the service, was to remove the EGR valve and clean as much of the loose carbon out of the passages as I could. Compressed air, solvent, a long wire brush (with plastic bristles only), more solvent, and more compressed air (along with time and patience) was usually enough to clear out enough carbon to keep the system (and the EGR valve) clear of debris for a long while.

Keep in mind, you may or may not have a problem with carbon buildup in the EGR system. If you have a trusted shop or mechanic (who is happily munching on the cookies you brought for him)... he is more likely to be honest with you and give you more (less expensive) options.

If anyone who reads this far were to ask me... I will gladly start a thread on how to possibly avoid carbon debris problems on the Northstar engine. :yup:

Please remember my best suggestion... don't jump into any expensive repairs right off the bat. Have them do a light diagnosis and clear the codes. Continue to drive the car. See what happens.

--
Ellisss

tgs2101
01-05-04, 10:07 AM
Ellisss,

I am definitely interested in your new thread on getting rid of carbon deposits. I'm not afraid to perform the procedures that you outlined.

The tools needed; what is expensive $200.00? or more? Where do we purchase the solvents needed?

Thanks for the post.

Tommy

ellisss
01-05-04, 10:55 AM
Ellisss,

I am definitely interested in your new thread on getting rid of carbon deposits. I'm not afraid to perform the procedures that you outlined.

The tools needed; what is expensive $200.00? or more? Where do we purchase the solvents needed?

Thanks for the post.

Tommy
Your welcome, Tommy... but unfortunately my post will be more of a monologue on maintenance and driving habits than a tutorial on carbon removal.

Removing it once it's there is easy. Keeping it away is the tricky part. The tools and procedures I made mention of are dealership tools. If you wish to purchase the kit(s), I think they are available through Kentmore Tools... but I promise you that you wouldn't want to spend the money (way over $1000).

I'm off to work at my boring union job with a local utility now... I'll start the thread (if I remember, or if someone reminds me) later tonight when I get home.

--
Ellisss

teresa
01-06-04, 12:25 PM
Reminder. I too need to know how doe decarb my car and clear the P036 code.
THANKS