: Which is your best air filter?



N0DIH
02-17-06, 06:31 PM
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

This is good reading, if you are concerned which air filter you should run on your car.

durrk
02-17-06, 06:34 PM
so, ac delco?

N0DIH
02-17-06, 08:07 PM
For dirt stopping, life/capacity, yes. For airflow for a short while, K&N. But it doesn't last long.... You will NOT be going 30K miles on an K&N in a dirty environment.

BUT, paper elements get more restrictive when wet or damp, and of course, when dirty....

Run your K&N at the track, and your AC Delco the rest of the time...

davesdeville
02-18-06, 08:09 AM
If this is the same article I read awhile ago it doesn't mention how K&N's oil can kill a MAF sensor. Happened to my parent's SHO before we bought it...

N0DIH
02-20-06, 12:58 PM
I had an Amsoil filter in my Bonneville and I did find that I needed to clean the MAF elements periodically. The filter eventually started to disintigrate. I do not use it anymore. They claim lifetime warranty on that one (the old LTF filters), but don't really want to run anything BUT a paper element for now.

I have some video footage by Amsoil on a flow bench of a K&N, Amsoil and Fram or the like paper. The paper and amsoil trapped roughly the same amount of dirt, where the K&N passed a lot of it. The Amsoil and K&N were nearly tied in air flow (I forget the details of what depression and CFM, but I think it was in the 350 cfm range and around 10 inches of depression, if I find the tape, I'll look).

The test showed convincinly that the K&N and Amsoil were air flow similar, and the Amsoil trapped more dirt. As they didn't seem to have any trickery, I would tend to beleive it. K&N advertises on thier box that they out flow Amsoil, but they also did NOT use a same size filter. Which leads me to be very distrusting of K&N. If you are going to claim you are better, don't be decietful in doing so.

DopeStar 156
02-20-06, 05:10 PM
I've been using FRAM's. With all the pollution here they still last pretty well.

Kev
02-20-06, 06:40 PM
Hey, you guys are missing out on one important benefit to K&N filters, that is the custom port polishing that you get as you drive! Over time the extra abrasive flow smooths out the intake runners and you get better air flow as a result!
:p :stirpot: :bouncy: :bang2: :duck:
:leaving:

Katshot
02-20-06, 06:51 PM
I had an Amsoil filter in my Bonneville and I did find that I needed to clean the MAF elements periodically. The filter eventually started to disintigrate. I do not use it anymore. They claim lifetime warranty on that one (the old LTF filters), but don't really want to run anything BUT a paper element for now.

I have some video footage by Amsoil on a flow bench of a K&N, Amsoil and Fram or the like paper. The paper and amsoil trapped roughly the same amount of dirt, where the K&N passed a lot of it. The Amsoil and K&N were nearly tied in air flow (I forget the details of what depression and CFM, but I think it was in the 350 cfm range and around 10 inches of depression, if I find the tape, I'll look).

The test showed convincinly that the K&N and Amsoil were air flow similar, and the Amsoil trapped more dirt. As they didn't seem to have any trickery, I would tend to beleive it. K&N advertises on thier box that they out flow Amsoil, but they also did NOT use a same size filter. Which leads me to be very distrusting of K&N. If you are going to claim you are better, don't be decietful in doing so.

I think you're mistaken. In the "Initial Restriction" graph, the K&N filter out flowed all others by a huge margin. This is why they are so good for "performance" applications. I'd never debate that they are as good at trapping dirt but to be honest, I don't think dirt is all that big of a concern in "normal" driving.
And as for oil from the filter "killing" a MAF, how the heck does that occur? I could see if the filter is over-oiled that it could coat the sensing wire but "kill" it?

N0DIH
02-20-06, 07:58 PM
I have always wondered if the dirt incoming the air intake REALLY affects anything (except a free port/polish job) on the life of the engine. I guess it COULD get stuck on the cyl walls but would it REALLY cause more engine wear?

The car companies all install them, but in reality, does the dirt trapping ability of a K&N vs an AC Delco really matter?

You are right, it is easy to forget, initial vs long term

Amsoil's test video used a cup of xx micron dirt and poured it all in the intake stream where the filter MUST trap it all. So what we were seeing was intended to be a dirty filter. As for how dirty? Don't know.

BluEyes
02-21-06, 01:17 PM
The way top test the effect of dirt in normal driving is to do oil analysis. Silison levels basically indicate dirt/dust getting in past the air filter and past the rings down into the oil.
Hmmm... Silicon in the bearings? Can't be good for ring seal, either.

Katshot
02-21-06, 03:44 PM
Just another reason why I buy quality oil and filters and change them every 2500 miles. No doubt if you operate in dusty environments, a more restrictive/better filtering air filter is a better idea. Just have to live with the performance decrease. I didn't do a search on the actual filter numbers used, are they all the manufacturers best?

Kev
02-21-06, 04:51 PM
I don't know much about those fancy graphs and technical tests but I can tell you about my personal experience with a K&N filter in my 88 Mustang LX. The beast (now my daughter's car) has over 300k miles on it, I bought it with 41k. Early on in my ownership I put a K&N filter in it, it's safe to say that it's been in for over 200k miles.

At 225k miles I pulled the heads to replace the gaskets. At that time the cylinder walls had no evidence of ridge at the top and I swear it looked like there were still honing marks on them! With the new gaskets the compression measured from 165 to 183 psi. The engine is still running very well.

Do you think I may have shortened the life of the engine with the K&N filter?

Katshot
02-21-06, 06:44 PM
Ah... I'm going to have to say no. WHen I was young, and old hot-rodder told me a "secret" about air filters:
"....air filters are only there to keep out things like sticks and birds...."
While I don't quite side with him, I think the need for air filteration in most applications is greatly over exagerated.

N0DIH
02-21-06, 07:50 PM
That is my question. How much filtration is NEEDED.

Like today, I got behind a semi that was kicking up salt like crazy, so I got stuck in a salt storm for 2-3 miles. How much would actually get caught in the filter, even if I had a K&N? How much then would actually HURT the engine?

Hard thing to test. I guess the AC Delco filters cover a worst case, if you lived in AZ or Saudi Arabia in sandstorms often, I can see the NEED for the higher quality filter. But where I live and drive, that need is very very rare.

FrankieSixxxgun
02-22-06, 01:49 PM
I run K&N in my hotrods/motorcycle, and a Fram in my Caddy. The Fram is cheap and seems to do the intended job. Honestly, there are things out there that are going to kill my engine long before I have any issues from poor air filtration.

Kev
02-22-06, 02:43 PM
I like to keep the bugs out too. In my opinion, it is more important to the life of an engine to change the oil on a regular basis than worry about how much dirt might come through the air filter.

Katshot
02-22-06, 07:24 PM
I like to keep the bugs out too. In my opinion, it is more important to the life of an engine to change the oil on a regular basis than worry about how much dirt might come through the air filter.

You got it!

davesdeville
02-22-06, 09:20 PM
And as for oil from the filter "killing" a MAF, how the heck does that occur? I could see if the filter is over-oiled that it could coat the sensing wire but "kill" it?

Yes, oil will land on the sensing wire and coat it, and it won't read properly. Not exactly easy to try to clean it without destroying it.

Katshot
02-28-06, 02:41 PM
Yes, oil will land on the sensing wire and coat it, and it won't read properly. Not exactly easy to try to clean it without destroying it.

You've never cleaned a MAF before? Pretty easy actually.

N0DIH
02-28-06, 08:03 PM
On my 3800 V8, you just unscrew the MAF module, and you pull out the sensor itself and leave the aluminum body on the car. VERY easy.

The LT1 is quite easy too. I can have the MAF off in my hand in maybe 30-60 seconds.

davesdeville
02-28-06, 09:59 PM
Not all MAF elements are so easy to clean.