: To Jeep or not to Jeep... that is the question...



Playdrv4me
02-14-06, 08:55 PM
I love my Seville... however Im finding out a couple of scary things regarding some potential trouble spots on these cars, and I also happened to just be sniffing around one day for my old buddy the Grand Cherokee when I came across this very nice 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited with 122k for 5400.00. I was thinking of selling the Seville for about 7500 or so, and haggling this Jeep down to 5, and then pocketing the 2500.00 difference as I could really use the $$ right now.

I think there are probably issues with it, but nothing on those damn Jeeps is hard to do at the level Northstar work can be. Blown headgasket? 100 bucks and a couple beers with a few buddies, or a few hundred at your local mechanic... 360 engine is easy as pie to work on. Only engine Ive ever had to change plugs and wires on (well the 318) and it was a snaparoo. Trouble spots on them tend to be intake plenums, rear end (the Dana44 is trash), and transfer case, all easy fixes. Right now its still getting some repairs done but the seller said i could check it out thursday so I might drive out of town to see it in a few days...

I was also considering a 96-98 E38 (BMW 740i/iL) but they are harder to find in good shape and not as easy to work on/expensive to fix.

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2006/2/1/196/193/60035573.196193523.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2006/2/1/196/193/60035571.196193523.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2006/2/1/196/193/60035572.196193523.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

1998 was the last year for what I consider to be the most reliable of the Grand Cherokees and this was the best one made for 1 year.

Whats funny is, back in the early 00's when I had my two Jeeps (a 97 and then a 99), I considered a complete pain to work on and fix and very problematic. Now that Ive since owned everything from Cadillacs to BMW's to Lexuses, they are like childsplay in comparison.

Tommy Deville
02-14-06, 08:59 PM
Pros
lots of power with v-8
4wd will go any where
real comfy front seats

cons
horrible ride
no real passenger leg room
rattle box
cheap plastic feel on all controls

Rolex
02-14-06, 08:59 PM
The two best days I owned my 97 Grand Cherokee were the day I bought it, and the day I sold it. Time between that was filled with nothing but problems. I would steer clear if I were you, but if you're handy at automobile repair this could be the vehicle for you! ;)

That said, I always thought the 5.9 limited models were pretty cool.

Playdrv4me
02-14-06, 09:05 PM
Thanks for the honest advice from both of ya.

To be totally honest no I am not handy with repairs. But its time I learn if I am ever going to call myself even half a true automobile lover, and I get real frustrated when I cant fix a problem myself like I can with a computer or TV or whatever other gadget I get my hands on.

Sooo... with that in mind, the chassis, engine and driveline on these are very very good to learn on. The little bit of experience I DO have with mechanics came from the time I owned my 97 TSi with the 318 V8. The 318/360 is a very open engine with all the major parts easy to get to, the rear end is easy to get in and out, and the transmission is an old style with bands and parts that can be accessed if you know what to do rather than the all electronic setups in my Caddy.

I have a ton of friends from the only other forum I was ever on even half as long as CF... and thats Jeepsunlimted, all of which can be a great help and most of them in their teens and early 20's and all wrenching their trucks on a daily basis.

My 97 had issues too, but it wasnt as bad as the 99, which was the first year of the redesign. Man that thing was a deathtrap.

Comfort and convenience-wise, the Jeep has all the same features the Caddy does, sans dual-zone climate controls. It DOES have Electronic climate control and a very good audio system though, heated seats, power everything and a generous amount of space to throw all of my crud in plus a sunroof which my caddy doesnt have.

davesdeville
02-14-06, 09:19 PM
Hmm. What kinda mileage do those get? Not that it will be a big difference from a Seville, but I'm just curious.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-14-06, 09:20 PM
Well I dont know much about Jeeps, but I know thats a limited edition, and I know it's quite fast (15.4 in the 1/4) I always thought those 5.9 Limited's were cool!

Playdrv4me
02-14-06, 09:30 PM
Hmm. What kinda mileage do those get? Not that it will be a big difference from a Seville, but I'm just curious.

Well, seeing as how my poor Seville is getting like 15.6 as we speak :( ... probably very similar. Im going to throw out a figure of 14/19 just off the top of my head. Ill have to look it up to be sure, its been ALONG time since Ive done the Jeep thing...

EDIT:

HAHA! WOW That was an incredible guess!!! The EPA MPG is 14/18.

Playdrv4me
02-14-06, 09:34 PM
Crap... scratch that, its a typo... they listed the 5.2 as a 5.9.

The 5.9 is 13 City/17 Highway... Holy crap. My Seville is 17/26!

Also you HAVE to use premium in the 5.9 or it will ping.

Night Wolf
02-14-06, 11:36 PM
Well, for whats its worth, you know my situation on the TJ and all...

I can't wait until the day comes... I like trucks tho.

PAW 47
02-14-06, 11:45 PM
Yummy.. 5.9L Quadratrac..:woohoo: Years ago I thought I could be cheap and save gas by going with the 95 prior to getting the monster 5.9L and drive a Limited w/ Quadratrac with the stout I-6. It got 14mpg too..:cookoo:

I should have gotten the 5.9L instead.

Oh Play, if you get it.. have the tranny inspected first. My first tranny died at 95k, the second one at 80K. See I was cheap and stupid at the time so I rebuilt the old one. Which I latter found out I should have bought a re-man. one. With a few design changes..go figure.

Playdrv4me
02-14-06, 11:51 PM
Well... the Seville is going up on Autotrader, and I guess I should probably put it in our for sale section too. Depending on the reaction to the Cadillac and the condition of this Jeep, Ill decide whether to get it or not. It just happens to be in my backyard almost and a good deal so well see how it goes.

Ive got alot going on right now all of a sudden and I could really use the extra dough if nothing else. The best part is 122k is barely broke in for that puppy. I really want an E38, but I think financially and useful-wise, the Jeep is a better vehicle.

Jesda
02-14-06, 11:56 PM
I've got an E34 that just passed emissions and got a whole new exhaust. :D

Zorb750
02-15-06, 02:35 AM
I love my E38. It is my all time favorite car that I have ever owned out of a fairly long list. Jeep's cool too. You can make the 5.2 or 5.9 very fast (for a Jeep)

noahsdad
02-15-06, 07:50 AM
Ive had three Cherokees, an '89 Limited, a '96 Country, and a '99 Grand Limited with the 5.9. All great vehicles, and reasonably trouble free. The Grands have really crappy front rotors. They tend to warp after just a few thousand miles no matter how often you replace them. Get used to wop-wop-wop stops.

The ride is stiff, insurance is stupid expensive, and gas mileage is awful (my Grand got 13-15 around town, maybe 20 on the road). But for a cheap SUV, you cannot do better. You can easily stretch a Grand Cherokee to 250k as long as you don't abuse it.

That price seems a little high for a '98 with those kind of miles.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-15-06, 11:41 AM
Do you plan to do any off roading with it?

If not, then I wouldn't buy it

EcSTSatic
02-15-06, 12:07 PM
Do you plan to do any off roading with it?

If not, then I wouldn't buy it

I've finally overcome the macho urge myself to own a 4WD. Besides being totally flat in Kansas, the gas mileage brought me to my senses. Still, SUVs sell like crazy around here. :cookoo:

slk230mb
02-15-06, 12:10 PM
Damn Ian, another car decision. You need to win the lottery then buy a used car dealership. Maybe then, just then you will be marginally satisified. lol ;)

Playdrv4me
02-15-06, 02:37 PM
Ive had three Cherokees, an '89 Limited, a '96 Country, and a '99 Grand Limited with the 5.9. All great vehicles, and reasonably trouble free. The Grands have really crappy front rotors. They tend to warp after just a few thousand miles no matter how often you replace them. Get used to wop-wop-wop stops.

The ride is stiff, insurance is stupid expensive, and gas mileage is awful (my Grand got 13-15 around town, maybe 20 on the road). But for a cheap SUV, you cannot do better. You can easily stretch a Grand Cherokee to 250k as long as you don't abuse it.

That price seems a little high for a '98 with those kind of miles.

I agree with you, the ride can be bone jarring and rattly. You said you had a 99, I imagine you had the same truck I did then, but they didnt have the 5.9 anymore in 99, they switched to the brand new 4.7L V8 that year and dropped the 318/360 from Jeeps altogether.

Actually, for a 5.9 Limited, this price is among the LOWEST in the country, regardless of blue book value, these are still briniging high dollar amounts. This was the only one I found even close to this money in Florida.

Playdrv4me
02-15-06, 02:39 PM
Damn Ian, another car decision. You need to win the lottery then buy a used car dealership. Maybe then, just then you will be marginally satisified. lol ;)

Im working on it.... ;)

Im a very odd person... I enjoy the thrill of the hunt and making the deal as much as I do the vehicle itself.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-15-06, 05:40 PM
Im a very odd person... I enjoy the thrill of the hunt and making the deal as much as I do the vehicle itself.

Me too! I love looking for cars and I love having a reason to test drive many!

EcSTSatic
02-15-06, 05:43 PM
You guys need to discover girls! :histeric:

Playdrv4me
02-15-06, 05:58 PM
You guys need to discover girls! :histeric:

http://inelson.mercwear.com/100_0321.jpg

... Sore subject :mad:

(I met her when we both lived in Wichita too!).

noahsdad
02-15-06, 08:33 PM
... Sore subject :mad:

(I met her when we both lived in Wichita too!).


Yowza! And you thought Grand Cherokees were high maintenance!

Actually, my '99 Grand Limited was a very early release, one of the first off the line - like July of '98, and it did have the 5.9. They switched to the 4.7 in September, but a few slipped through.

Zorb750
02-15-06, 09:20 PM
You guys need to discover girls! :histeric:


:lies: :hitstick:

Hey! I met a nice (and very cute) 18 year old girl two years ago BECAUSE of my Jeep! We were both out having fun on Woodward in Birmingham, MI, and she wanted to know who else was crazy enough to be racing a Jeep. We ended up dating for about 6 months.

Noahsdad: Incidentally, the 5.2/5.9 will NOT FIT into the WJ style Jeep. If you seriously think you had one, you were told wrong. I know of people who tried to convert them. It doesn't fly.

Playdrv4me
02-15-06, 09:22 PM
:lies: :hitstick:

Hey! I met a nice (and very cute) 18 year old girl two years ago BECAUSE of my Jeep! We were both out having fun on Woodward in Birmingham, MI, and she wanted to know who else was crazy enough to be racing a Jeep. We ended up dating for about 6 months.

Noahsdad: Incidentally, the 5.2/5.9 will NOT FIT into the WJ style Jeep. If you seriously think you had one, you were told wrong. I know of people who tried to convert them. It doesn't fly.

Ya Im gonna have to agree with Zorb on this one. Ive never ever seen a 5.9 in a WJ, not even a retrofit, and I was on the Jeepsunlimited forum from about 2001 to 2002. We never had a single member with anything like that.

Do you mean that you had a ZJ (93-98 Body) 5.9 that was a 1999 Titled vehicle? That would seem to make more sense to me.

Night Wolf
02-15-06, 09:34 PM
All this talk about the Grand Cherokee being loud, rough ride... not much room....

Gosh... just think about the TJ! :) That'll be mine soon enough....

I have always *really* liked the XJ too....especailly the ~'96+ restyle... even though it was minor... that and a full size Bronco ('92-'96 are my favorite) are some of the only SUV's I *really* like... and would want to own

noahsdad
02-16-06, 07:36 AM
Holy crap guys...better pack me off to the senile ward. I just went through all my service records on the 99 Grand, looking for something to prove it was a 5.9.

It was a 4.7. Do I feel stupid now.

Anyway, enjoy your Cherokee if you buy it.

Playdrv4me
02-17-06, 03:20 AM
Holy crap guys...better pack me off to the senile ward. I just went through all my service records on the 99 Grand, looking for something to prove it was a 5.9.

It was a 4.7. Do I feel stupid now.

Anyway, enjoy your Cherokee if you buy it.

LOL... No worries mate... Happens to the best of us... I really thought I had missed somethin there!

Jesda
02-17-06, 03:47 AM
... Sore subject :mad:

(I met her when we both lived in Wichita too!).

I wondered why this thread gave me a rash!

Katshot
02-17-06, 09:05 AM
My old boss was a Jeep fan and therefore had one after another. He had 4 during the time I was working for him. Early 90's Cherokee up through a '99 Limited. He loved them, I hated them. He didn't have a lot of trouble with them, they were just cheap-feeling to me, and they had a terrible ride. Wasn't rough, just unstable IMO. I tried a number of things over the years and finally landed on a good combination of shocks and tires that seemed to make the beast ride fairly well. The 5.9 versions DID have some get up and go but the chassis still seemed easily overwhelmed by the power IMO.

noahsdad
02-17-06, 09:18 AM
One of the reasons Jeeps (including the top of the line Grand Cherokee Limiteds) ride so rough is that Jeep divison builds real 4 wheel drives. These candy-a$# things that pass for sport utilities these days are built to please women, and never, ever go off road. Jeep owners manuals encourage owners to get out there and make the machine do what it's designed to do - I like that.

Take a Kia Sportage out in the woods and watch it bend like a beer can.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-17-06, 10:48 AM
One of my best friends is big into Jeeps. He's got a '98 Wrangler SE with the 2.5 I-4. His dad has a 2001 Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 4.7. Even with that smaller 4.7, its a pretty damn quick truck! It's acceleration is pretty similar to my deVilles. Around town, anyways. Its nice too because it's got leather and heated seats and a lot of nice stuff that my car's got also. But IIRC, the rear seat is pretty cramped, and it gets like 17MPG on the freeway.

One of my other best friends grandparents have a '95 Ford Bronco XLT with the 351...you know the REAL SUV. When we're in that, we feel so masculine even compared to the Jeep. But I believe the Grand Cherokee is a lot more stable at highway speeds, and it seems a whole lot more modern. But of course, the Bronco dates back to around 1980, and the GC was redesigned in 1999.

It's kind of like comparing a 1990 Brougham to a 1997 STS. One is a "real" example of their field, and one is a more modern play on the same idea.

Katshot
02-17-06, 11:29 AM
I had a '95 Eddie Baur Bronco. To this date, it's my favorite vehicle out of all I've owned. I had it with every option and fitted it with 12R 31x 15 tires to give it even more of a macho look/feel. I absolutely LOVED that truck but since it was a company vehicle, I didn't get to keep it past 3 years. I was so sad to see that go.

DILLIGAF
02-17-06, 11:01 PM
99 wj here,no problems other than maintenance.KS flat?you kidding me.I have 3 4x4s and thats not enough around here.Get off the road every now and then.Jeeps are cool and the forums are great over there,almost as good as here.The 99s have the 4.7 motor.

SilverFleetwood85
02-18-06, 12:12 AM
The 5.9 Grand Cherokee Limited is a really cool looking vehicle, I think the hood slats are cool, even though they don't do anything.

I think the Cadillac should be more reliable then the Grand Cherokee, from what I heard Grand Cherokees are terribly unreliable. Besides you are giving up a CADILLAC for a Jeep, eventhough the Jeep is cool looking and all the Cadillac is just classy and much more refined.

An E38 is another really cool car, I have driven about three of them and they were all great driving machines. The E38 will require a lot of maintainance to keep it running properly.

Zorb750
02-18-06, 07:11 AM
No, E38s don't require much maintenance. The whole secret is to keep up with BMW's inspection 1 and 2 service, then there really are no surprises. You can even do the inspection and service yourself, just do all they tell you to do! The car isn't fragile by any measure, my only issue is the display going out. (Dead pixels)

The Grand Cherokee... I've had two. A white early 1993 (essentially 1992.5) Limited, the first year they were out, made March 1992, 1 month after introduction. Great truck for driving around, lots of dumb problems. Window switches broken once, corrosion everywhere, ended up rebuilding the harnesses for the taillights, wheel speed sensors breaking every 30 or 40K miles, things like that. Threw in garbage @ 189K miles due to broken connecting rod. Well, actually, I sold it to a 15 year old I knew from somewhere I worked a lot who liked working on cars with his dad for $400. Interior was great, trans rebuilt at 164K miles, new diffs (aftermarket) on both axles. He put a new engine in it for $500 and had himself a decent truck. He's still driving it now, 3 years later.

The green 1993 Limited has a 5.2 V8, way fewer idiotic problems. It's broken sway bar links 2 or 3 times, and the air conditioner died once with no diagnosable problem (all chryslers seem to do that :cookoo:). It's gotten beat up off road (has 4" lift, big tires), raced (lots of performance things done, beats Seville SLS by nose+door at 80 with Seville catching up slowly), got put on its side in a ditch with just a little body damage (fixed in driveway, you would never know). Very few problems. Trans pump shaft broke at about 100K (strange....) so rebuilt with heavier parts, clutches, etc. Great truck. Still works now, could drive every day @ 166K.

I would definitely buy the ZJ. I have two close friends with the WJ, one of which owned a ZJ. He says there is no comparison for durability, the ZJ is much tougher. The WJ has a little more comfortable ride, more sound insulation, and the engine's quieter (but it's a bit slower). Both tell me that the WJ eats money, constantly nickel and diming in stupid things. Timing covers leaking oil on the 4.7, Varilock progressive axles acting up and binding, HVAC issues with vent and temp controls, things like that.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-18-06, 06:16 PM
My aunt and uncle had a 1993 Grand Cherokee Limited edition. That car had tons of electrical problems IIRC. I admit, that may have been because it was the first year for that model, but ever since then, I never thought of JGC's as being very reliable.

Jesda
02-18-06, 07:44 PM
At a lot I worked at, we routinely saw 250-300k early 90s JGC's. They'll run forever if you let them.

Zorb750
02-19-06, 03:54 AM
There's a world of difference between my early and my late 1993.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-19-06, 06:11 PM
At a lot I worked at, we routinely saw 250-300k early 90s JGC's. They'll run forever if you let them.

You worked at a dealership? Which one?

Jesda
02-19-06, 08:29 PM
You worked at a dealership? Which one?

I worked at two small used lots for a while (going back and forth as needed) and very briefly at a Cadillac dealer in Ellisville, MO.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-19-06, 08:51 PM
Cool! What did you do there?

Jesda
02-19-06, 11:14 PM
Sales.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-20-06, 12:19 PM
Cool! Thats something I'm considering doing.

I've been told to stay away from many though..

Jesda
02-20-06, 12:37 PM
Car sales, to me, is okay to do on and off, but I cant imagine choosing it as a career. Your free time completely disappears.
Sandy did it for a quarter century and he's not dead, so thats encouraging.

Oh and Ian, going from a luxury sedan to a truck is nuts, as nice as it may be. That Seville of yours is effing beautiful. If you trade it for a Jeep, I'll come to Florida and shake the sh*t out of you myself.

Night Wolf
02-20-06, 12:40 PM
lol, and that is going to Jeeps most luxury vehicle... the GC....

I'll be going form a DeVille to a Wrangler.

Still, it offers so much for me that I want.

Playdrv4me
02-20-06, 08:22 PM
Ricks right on that last comment. The 98 5.9 only lacks one thing my Seville has, and thats dual zone climate control. Otherwise, the irony is the 98 actually has MORE features than my Seville, including a Moonroof and heated seats. Both of which are missing from my STS.

On that note, at this point Im going full steam ahead with my E38 750il plan unless I absolutely can not find one. Everywhere Ive read claims they are relatively solid vehicles, and thats encouraging news.

SilverFleetwood85
02-21-06, 02:54 AM
No, E38s don't require much maintenance. The whole secret is to keep up with BMW's inspection 1 and 2 service, then there really are no surprises. You can even do the inspection and service yourself, just do all they tell you to do! The car isn't fragile by any measure, my only issue is the display going out. (Dead pixels)


Actually the inspection 1 and 2 are really expensive. the inspection 2 for my friends BMW M3 was $1200 dollars, and that is for a inline 6 engine

Zorb750
02-21-06, 03:36 AM
Actually the inspection 1 and 2 are really expensive. the inspection 2 for my friends BMW M3 was $1200 dollars, and that is for a inline 6 engine

Erhard quotes $1400 for my 750 for Inspection 2, which is actually a major service. Diff oil, plugs, etc.

You can do it yourself in a day and $400 in parts.

Night Wolf
02-21-06, 08:15 AM
lol... $1,400 for basic stuff like changing the diff gear oil and spark plugs?

Wow......

imagine if BMW made a real SUV with front and rear diffs and a transfer case? that would be like... $5,000 to change fluids.... yet Jeep gets by just fine for a few hundred bucks.....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-21-06, 10:49 AM
Rick, do you actually like Jeeps more than Cadillac? ;)

Playdrv4me
02-21-06, 04:21 PM
imagine if BMW made a real SUV with front and rear diffs and a transfer case? that would be like... $5,000 to change fluids.... yet Jeep gets by just fine for a few hundred bucks.....

They did... its called a Range Rover.

Zorb750
02-21-06, 05:17 PM
Inspection 2 is an all day job, and has about $400 worth of hardware included in it.

Night Wolf
02-21-06, 06:43 PM
They did... its called a Range Rover.

Ah yes. I knew there was a reason I never liked them.

Playdrv4me
02-21-06, 07:53 PM
Also, the days of Jeep being *REAL* offroaders has long since passed. The only vehicle left that is still a part of that heritage is the Wrangler, and it wont be around for too much longer.

The Liberty is a joke, and is based off a shortened version of the old WJ platform but with IFS rather than solid axle.

The new WK has IFS as WELL as a VERY low body stance that makes it tough to traverse obstacles with, and has more in common with an Explorer than its previous Jeep kindred.

The Commander goes without saying, its the Tahoe of the Jeep world and is not intended for more than moderate off-road use.

As a final blow, the Compass will be an economy micro-SUV even smaller than the Liberty, and far less capable of any off-road work.

After 2004's death of the WJ, and the loss of the XJ in 2001, Jeep really lost my respect.

Night Wolf
02-21-06, 08:15 PM
Also, the days of Jeep being *REAL* offroaders has long since passed. The only vehicle left that is still a part of that heritage is the Wrangler, and it wont be around for too much longer.

long passed?

The TK.... the '07 Wrangelr replacement.... The Rubicon is going to have such features as 32" tires and electronically disconnected sway bars. Add that to the front and rear lockers already on it, low gearing, 4:1 transfer case.... and damn... you can buy a nicely built trail ready rig off the showroom floor.

Of course Jeep has to go more soccer mom, otherwise nothing will sell.

Sure the Commander may be like a Tahoe... still dosn't matter, its a very nice truck. Perhaps I really like it because, to me, its a modern Cherokee. So far it seems promising for offroad too...

Liberty may not be everyones taste... but that dosn't mean it isn't an off-roader.... I have seem some really nicely built Libs....

About the WK.... its Jeeps luxury SUV.... not much else to say there. It hasn't been out very long at all, too soon to say anything aobut how it'll do off-road... IFS may not be the suspension of choice, but it dosn't mean it isn't capable. People said the WJ would never be an off-roader.... and, well, people have proved that wrong.

The Compass is actually FWD, IIRC 4WD will be an option... its for the younger "hip" crowd who want to "look" cool... kinda like Scion. Sure it may not be the Jeep of Jeeps... but Chrysler has to deal with CAFE... and if they want a Grand Cherokee SRT8 that does 0-60 nearly as fast as a CTS-V, then they gotta do something to offset the gas mileage.

I don't see how it is any different for anyone else. Everyone is making changes.

The CJ/Wrangler will always be the true off-road Jeep.... the Cherokee was just about as good as it gets for someone wanting something bigger then a Wrangler. The Grand Wagoneer was great, but long gone, the Cherokee kinda replaced that.

The Cherokee HAD to be killed... it coudln't keep up with increased safety demands form the Gov't. It was an age-old design from AMC that coudln't be updated, it got the minor face lift and that was it. Sure it is loved by the Jeep world, its one of the only SUV's I'd buy, I really like it. But from a selling stand point, the Liberty was a smart move.... people stopped buying Cherokees and scoffed the Libbys up like hot cakes.

Still funny though, the Grand Cherokee... stills seems to be the most off-roaded luxury SUV. Nearly everyone on the Jeep site hits the trails... Hummer and Land Rover get the debates between 22" or 24" wheels.

Playdrv4me
02-21-06, 08:28 PM
Hummer and Land Rover get the debates between 22" or 24" wheels.

In fairness, thats only because of who can afford to buy those trucks. There is STILL a large group of boards and users who offroad their trucks on a regular basis. Also, as the WK stands right now? The Volkswagen Touareg will eat it for lunch regurgitate it and then eat it again, forget the Range Rover.

The key to both of those trucks is Hill Descent Control and and an adjustable suspension that gives them an extreme amount of suspension travel and clearance at the touch of a button.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-21-06, 09:28 PM
The Volkswagen Touareg will eat it for lunch regurgitate it and then eat it again.

Yeah, the Touareg is the king of the hill for luxury SUV's now. (pun intended!)

The only thing that was close was the G-Wagon, and thats now discontinued.


And Rick, I think the Commander is the modern replacement for the Grand Wagoneer. Top of the line, most luxury features, and largest interior, V8 Engine. It may look like a Cherokee, but its got the heart of the GW.

Night Wolf
02-22-06, 12:58 AM
lol, I'd like to see someone actually using a Touareg or ugly as hell G-Wagon.... or even Cayene for any REAL off-road use. Not using to go over a curb in the mall parking lot or driving down a dirt road to visit some country in-laws...

Hill Decsent Control. Aparently the more money you spend on a vehicle means the more dumb you get. Whatever happened to having the truck in 4lo and putting it in 2nd gear, let the clutch out and let the engine slow you down? Oh yeah.... forgot... with out a real transfer case, you can't do that :).

The adjustable suspension... I guess ya got Jeep there... so they save $30,000 by having a normal suspension. Thats alot of money. Plus, I'd rather have a real lift kit and off-road suspension then a system that is designed for road use but can raise itself.... it really isn't magic either, just kinda takes the same exact idea Cadillac, and to a lesser extent, Lincoln, has used for years.... creating a suspenion that can go up/down isn't anything new.

"luxury" and "SUV" are interesting to me... because while you can *have* both... they will only be used for one thing. You are either going to have it being used for utility work, or for mall crawling. I am not talking about some older SUV's that were actually decent off-road... like the previous Grand Cherokee or Range Rover....but take a G-wagon, Touareg or Cayene among others.... they were designed to be so the yuppies that got tired of their cars, and wanted to be "cool" sitting "up high" and look better then average folks with real trucks, can have their share also. Sure they *can* be used off-road... but it is a very rare case... kinda like taking a RAV4 or CRV for any trail use... although I woudln't be surprised if either one did just as well, or surpassed any of those luxury SUVs.

The Commander basically filled the void that the Cherokee left. Since the Liberty did a good job from a sales point, it left alot of places un touched. This biggest thing with the Commander is that it seats 7. It starts at nearly the same price as a GC, offers similar features and engines etc... I highly doubt Jeep was thinking about the Grand Wagoneer when they came up with the Commander.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-22-06, 01:10 AM
I would only buy a Touareg if I was gonna off road with it. It would be a waste if you bought one and never brought it off road.

Plus, they have *gorgeous* interiors!