: Fleetwood Brougham Snow Performance



DopeStar 156
02-12-06, 02:55 AM
On my way back from a card game tonight it had snowed pretty bad while I was inside so I had to trudge home in two inches of snow. I have to say my '89 Fleetwood did exceptionally well with no slippage of any kind. All I did was lock out the O/D and take it easy under 35 and absolutely no problems what so ever. How would you rate your 80-92 Fleetwood Brougham in the snow? Not the 93-96 with the traction control, spoiled as you all are! Haha. I'm talkin' the bare bones of RWD.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-12-06, 03:17 AM
Well with brand new tires, in an inch of snow, my Roadmaster was easier to control than my deVille. Thats with the 350LT1, and a LSD, and I dont remember going more than 45. It was exceptionally great for a big heavy rwd car with all that much low end power. It had no traction control of any sort either.

It's no Brougham, but it's the next best thing.

davesdeville
02-12-06, 06:04 AM
Well my 75 is pretty barebones RWD too. I don't really get snow here in town, but it's pretty fun oversteering it when it rains enough.

Katshot
02-12-06, 07:18 AM
Not sure how anybody comes up with better performance in snow with a RWD unless you have a ton of weight in the trunk and/or studded snow tires.
The worst thing in snow is POWER. A powerful RWD has gotta be the worst in snow IMO. When I used to have the fleet of Caddies, our FWD Devilles were usually the better choice in snow unless we had snow tires and extra weight in the Fleetwoods. Then it was pretty even.

The Ape Man
02-12-06, 09:28 AM
RWD will give predictable handling in the snow. Less traction for a given vehicle weight verses FWD for sure. A posi is a great help dealing with that. FWD is superior in lighter vehicles but feedback to the driver can be poor. A 4000 lb car with a posi and RWD will get a skilled driver there. Vehicles with lots of traction on the drive wheels can get the inexperienced driver in over his/her head in a hurry. Plenty of 4WD trucks wrapped around poles in my neighborhood today. More to the game then raw traction.
Bottom line is I wouldn't go anywhere in snow over a few inches without a posi in a RWD.

DopeStar 156
02-12-06, 12:17 PM
Haha I did just fine and I don't think my 89 has posi.....

theGman
02-12-06, 08:24 PM
I have a 96 Seville for this snowy weather. The FW is darn good for a big RWD car though.

Mr_Bam
02-12-06, 11:43 PM
My old 84 used to do pretty good in the snow and the tires weren't showing the best of tread... Only "aid" I have ever used is 2 bags of sand on either side of the trunk...

N0DIH
02-12-06, 11:43 PM
Of all the cars I have had my 76 Delta 88 Royale was the best, even without posi and 2.73 gears it was awesome in the snow. My 94 FWB w/TCS is best overall. And that includes 3 FWD cars. They still suck in the snow. RWD all the way.

My mom had a 85 FW, and I don't remember her ever complaining about it in the snow.

I will want to do an AWD mod on my FWB, anyone have any ideas on how to swap in the Astro van AWD xfer case in and front axles?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-13-06, 12:15 AM
The thing about FWD is when there is snow, and you give it just a little too much throttle, it'll automatically pull to one direction, usually the left in my case. Its very annoying, but i guess its better than fishtailing around as would be the case with RWD.

N0DIH
02-13-06, 01:25 AM
I guess I am not fond of the lack of steering when the fronts try to slip. AND the advanatage of RWD that you can add posi easily to have additional traction.

The only dissadvantage of RWD that I can see is when you are on a slick road and you give it too much gas, you go off the road to the side, vs rwd (w/o TCS) you tend to start to spin out.

But for overall I feel that RWD is still superior in most if not all ways. You can always do things to add even more traction, like adding weight to the rear, adding posi, etc. Where FWD you are storta stuck with what you have. You can add posi in some apps like the 4T60/4T60E/4T65E. But it is quite pricey.

brougham
02-13-06, 08:00 AM
Well the way my 1991 is on wet roads it would probably suck in the snow. But since I never driven it in the winter I wouldn't know. Front wheel drive cars are better in the snow. If you can't go anywhere with one it's probably a day you should just stay home anyway.

Katshot
02-13-06, 08:41 AM
I'm very surprised to see so many people feel RWD is better in snow than FWD. There's been many threads here over the years pitting FWD against RWD and the one basic fact that gets echoed in every thread is that FWD is better in snow. So how is it that in this thread some feel it's not that way? IMO, the ONLY way a RWD car is going to perform any where near as well as a comparable size FWD car in the snow, is to load it down heavily and install chains or studded snows. Have you guys ever driven FWD cars in the snow?

pcm
02-13-06, 09:30 AM
I've driven both I think that front wheel drive is better for those who don't like driving in the snow. I on the other hand like to drive in the snow and with a rear wheel drive the fun factor is alot higher. the car I liked the best is an old 78 pontiac lemanse I don't think I spelled that right.:confused:

N0DIH
02-13-06, 10:37 AM
Put the exact same tires on a FWD and RWD, similar weight vehicles and lets go driving, you will find the RWD is equal or better to the FWD in most if not all instances. People are always comparing a NEW FWD car with all fresh components to that old RWD with summer tires or crap tires.

Do you remember that old Dodge commerical showing the FWD car climbing a hill better than a RWD car? Lets take a turn now, which car is now better?

DopeStar 156
02-13-06, 10:52 AM
My V6 FWD Chevy Malibu is my usual snow car. The only disadvantage of this car is when you lose traction you also lose steering. As far as handling goes it's pretty good.

My Fleetwood in the snow I've never fishtailed. (Unless it was intentional) I learned to drive on a RWD car and I've been driving RWD longer than I have FWD. At least if you lose traction with RWD you still have steering and if you know what you're doing you can easily steer out of a skid with combined throttle management. My old Lincoln Mark VII was pretty good in the snow but it had a lotta power and it was easy to spin some tires with that car, once again, no posi. The Caddy I feel is better than my old Lincoln because it's heavier so there's less of a chance of slippage. The Caddy is heavy enough that it holds it's own in the snow. I'm not saying one is better than the other as far as RWD/FWD go but they both have their major advantages and disadvantages.

iNdy.j
02-13-06, 11:26 AM
I love driving my beast in the snow. Living in Minnesota gives me all kinds of opportunities, hehe. I especially love fish tailing corners. I have gotten it stuck in a snow bank or two tho. That's were a FWD version would be nice. Even tho the car gets 114hp maxed, it eventually gets thru the snow and hits surface to gain traction again. But I wouldn't recommend doing that if you like having a transmission, hehe. If I didn't love the car so damn much, I would put it thru more hell just to see where the limitations were. One sand bag in the trunk is weight enough for RWD cars in the winter no matter the age of the tires.

N0DIH
02-13-06, 12:14 PM
I dunno, my "summer" tires were so bad on my FW even with traction control it sucked. They just packed up with snow and spun like I was on glare ice.

That brings up another good point indy, power. Our RWD cars almost ALWAYS have power power than the FWD cars. They are often lame dogs that couldn't break rubber on a neutral drop. So comparing FWD to RWD for winter driving is like comparing apples to oranges. They both can be eaten and give you nurishment, but are unalike in everything else.

And tires again, size matters. Smaller dinky 155 80 R13's have more PSI on the pavement then P235 70 15's. Again, it makes a difference. Trying to say FWD is better or RWD is better is meaningless. I'll take RWD, more control and safer.

Mr_Bam
02-13-06, 01:31 PM
I'm very surprised to see so many people feel RWD is better in snow than FWD. There's been many threads here over the years pitting FWD against RWD and the one basic fact that gets echoed in every thread is that FWD is better in snow. So how is it that in this thread some feel it's not that way? IMO, the ONLY way a RWD car is going to perform any where near as well as a comparable size FWD car in the snow, is to load it down heavily and install chains or studded snows. Have you guys ever driven FWD cars in the snow?

Yes I have... Both have specific characteristics dry, wet, snowy, etc. I could never get over that fwd feeling and sold the car...

Series75
02-13-06, 01:32 PM
http://www.home.earthlink.net/%7Eburdend/IceRacing/82Caddy_lean.jpg

CJPC
02-13-06, 02:13 PM
I dunno, my 92 brougham is fine in the rain/snow (though only snowed like twice this winter, so it was only out during one of the HEAVY snows), it was fine driving etc, but stopping, well, it takes quite a while ;)

CoupeDevilleRob
02-13-06, 02:34 PM
My Coupe Deville isn't too bad in the snow. Even when I'm messing around and get the ass hanging way out it's still easy to control. I've gotten it stuck a few times, both intentionally and unintentionally, and I've never had to push it out.

The bottom line is, if you know how to drive, RWD is perfectly safe in the snow. Problem is, not many people know how to drive.

iNdy.j
02-13-06, 04:07 PM
I dunno, my "summer" tires were so bad on my FW even with traction control it sucked. They just packed up with snow and spun like I was on glare ice.

That brings up another good point indy, power. Our RWD cars almost ALWAYS have power power than the FWD cars. They are often lame dogs that couldn't break rubber on a neutral drop. So comparing FWD to RWD for winter driving is like comparing apples to oranges. They both can be eaten and give you nurishment, but are unalike in everything else.

And tires again, size matters. Smaller dinky 155 80 R13's have more PSI on the pavement then P235 70 15's. Again, it makes a difference. Trying to say FWD is better or RWD is better is meaningless. I'll take RWD, more control and safer.

I was under the assumption that people weren't trying to drive in the winter with bald tires here. I have tires that have 20k on em each and I can get out of a 4-5 inch snow bank pretty easy. I should know it's happened a couple of times, hehe. I always thought RWD and FWD's had thier pluses and minuses. I prefer RWD myself, it seems to do more for steering. I've burned rubber, whiped fishtails and pulled a rockford 2 times. The last wasn't real flawless but it was cool. All of this was during winter of course, hehe.

BluEyes
02-13-06, 05:17 PM
y'know, people got around just fine in winter with RWD for years before FWD came along and all of a sudden no-one could drive a RWD in the snow.
It's all up to the driver, too much gas, too much speed, or too much brake and you're hosed no matter which wheels are driving, or how many.
The only difference between different drivelines is in off-the-line performance. FWD gets going in the snow better because 60% or so of the cars weight is on those wheels. RWD only has 45-50% rear weight generally so you can spin more easily. 4WD/AWD of course has anything else beat there.
But, once you're moving, it doesn't matter which wheels drive - you can only get around the corner or stop as fast as your wheels are able to. Every car uses four wheels to corner, and it's been a really long time since vehicles only had brakes on two wheels. Weight balance is the key for turning and stopping, and FWD's front heavy distribution is not a great thing anymore, neigher is the extra weight of a 4WD/AWD system.

My situation though, I try to avoid driving my RWD cars in the snow. They are all older than I am by at least 4 years so replacment parts *IF* something happens are alot harder to find and more expensive than for a '92 LeBaron. I d#mn near had a heart attack when I got caught out in a snowstorm in my '70 SDV and a VW just about hit me. One of the most frightening experiences I've ever had while driving and I probably would have ripped the other driver limb from limb had they hit my Caddy!

brougham
02-13-06, 10:54 PM
Rear wheel drive cars don't have as good traction when it's slippery out and have a problem getting going. And the back can also slip sideways. Front wheel drive cars don't have either of those problems unless it's really bad out. All the cars I ever had are rear wheel drive beacuse that's what I like. But on really bad days i'll take another car in a second.

Mr_Bam
02-14-06, 11:39 AM
Best thing to do is when it first snows (if you can) take your car to a parkinglot or somewhere similar and review how it handles... I've seen accidents with every type of vehicle... I just lower my tire pressure and drive cautious...

BCs71
02-15-06, 12:23 PM
RWD is definitely more fun in the snow.

Personally, a big heavy sedan in the snow with good tires and weight is hard to beat if you know what you are doing with it.

FWD in the snow is great if you have good tires. Having the engine weight over the drive wheels is a nice factor. My old 93 Cutlass with Michelin X1 tires in the snow was a BEAST in the deepest of snow. That was one FWD car that could pass up SUVs in the sloppiest conditions.

My RWD Caprice is fantastic in the snow, but I'd still hesitate to do the things in it that I did in my Cutlass.....
The Caprice is still more fun. That element of danger and all.....

Uncle Buck
02-15-06, 08:49 PM
I've driven my 87 Brougham in the snow the last couple of winters and have only had a couple of times where it's slid.