: AAMCO Tomorrow



DopeStar 156
02-02-06, 08:41 PM
Well since I've been experiencing shifting difficulties with my Brougham I decided to make an appointment at AAMCO tomorrow. Today on my way home downshifting from 3rd to 2nd there was slipping and when I got outta ruch hour traffic the shifting was just sloppy and unresponsive. So far I'm just having them look at it and tell me what's wrong..... I'm pretty sure I'll be headed into rebuild territory. I did print a $100 off a rebuild coupon off their website though! Haha. What should I expect from this visit?

AElayyat
02-03-06, 12:28 AM
Aamco quoted me like $2000 years ago for a rebuild. Your best bet is to go to a shop you trust and have dealt with before for tranny rebuilds. From my experience, ALL trans. shops are crookeder then shit.

davesdeville
02-03-06, 02:40 AM
You should expect them to screw you, in the ass, sans lubrication.

And please tell me you've at least checked the fluid level and condition.

DopeStar 156
02-03-06, 07:29 AM
You should expect them to screw you, in the ass, sans lubrication.

And please tell me you've at least checked the fluid level and condition.
Of course! First thing i checked. Everything's there and it's not leaking, I had cardboard under the car for a week and haven't noticed a drop. So far I'm just getting it checked out so anything they tell me that needs to be done except a rebuild will be handled by my regular shop. My shop doesn't do rebuilds.

And joke's on them! I'll be leaving to go there soon and I lubed up here beforehand! Hahahahaha!!!! :highfive: :suspect: :crying: :lildevil:

DopeStar 156
02-03-06, 09:45 AM
Well I left them the car and they're dropping the pan and checking it out to see if there's anything in it that shouldn't be there like metal or anything like that. I'm waiting for them to call me back. My dad has actually dealt with this particular AAMCO before and didn't feel they were pushy or corrupt in anyway so I'm not too worried. My dad nor myself are easily swindled. Hopefully they find a problem and take care of it because when I drove there it was fine and they roadtested it and also found nothing. We'll see what happens. I'll make regular updates here.....

Destroyer
02-03-06, 11:34 AM
You can always buy a remanufactured one and install it yourself. Check with Advance auto parts or some other local parts store and see about an exchange.

DopeStar 156
02-03-06, 12:03 PM
Well it hasn't come to that yet. AAMCO just called me and they found I had a broken tranny mount and that would case some major vibrations. So maybe what I was feeling was that an not necessarily slipping. Anyway they're replacing the mount and doing a full "Power Purge" meaning they remove 100% of the fluid and replace it. Then they're also adding an additive to the fluid to make it more synthetic to sort of smooth things up and have it run cleaner. I was quoted something like $325 for what they're doing today. They also credited me a couple hundred towards a rebuild if it needs to go that far in addition to the $100 off coupon I printed off their site. So far I think these guys are doing a good job and have been pretty honest and straight forward. I should get the car back this evening, we'll see how she drives after this.

N0DIH
02-03-06, 12:57 PM
Dang! A rebuild kit for that trans is only $200. And full Amsoil or Mobil 1 Synthetic is only $8 a quart. That is still cheaper than that!!

Check with Summit Racing for a rebuilt trans that is done by a reputable shop, they stock some that are only like $1000-$1200. HD rebuilt.

Well, it is good to know that I can trust AAMCO to be the rip off artists they still are.... Somethings don't change.

I should get into the trans rebuilding business!!

THM350's take around 30 min to rebuild. Easy stuff.

Night Wolf
02-03-06, 07:12 PM
If that "power purge" is a "flush" dont do it!

otherwise, lots of luck :)

the Brougham has the craptastic 200R4....no TH350.

DopeStar 156
02-03-06, 08:22 PM
Well that's all done and the car seems to be driving just fine but I won't know for sure until I get her out on the highway. That'll be the real test. If I have to do a rebuild I'll look into getting a remanned one from somewhere. My dad said he knows how to drop a trans.

caddycruiser
02-03-06, 08:24 PM
If that "power purge" is a "flush" dont do it!

otherwise, lots of luck :)

the Brougham has the craptastic 200R4....no TH350.

That's what I was just thinking...NO, NO, NO! Never flush, just drain and refill!

Sometimes you can get away without problems, but just cross your fingers the flushing of an old transmission doesn't lead to problems in the future:cool:

Night Wolf
02-03-06, 09:38 PM
So they replaced a tranny mount and replaced the fluid and its fine?

Seems to me like it just covered up the problem for a bit... anything after 120k on a 200R4, especially in the Broughams is egg shells.

If a tranny mount was in fact broke, there would be a sharp jerking motion and a bang when you hit the gas, downshift and stuff should be normal though, again, except for the shift/bang with the torque shift....

slipping is when the trans is in gear and the engine will rev alot and the car dosn't accelerate, or accelerates very slowly.... think like a manual transmission, riding the clutch... not making positive contact.

telling between a slip and a broken mount should be too hard though...

if its working good though, great! Lets hope it stays that way.... otherwise a rebuild seems to be in the future.

I agree, get a reman right from GM, if you have a buddy that works at a dealer you can get hooked up with a good price. GM offers a 3yr/50k warrantee or something like that too.... you really can't go wrong even if its a bit more pricey. Either way, I would definitly put a tranny cooler in the car.

fullserviceman
02-03-06, 09:48 PM
2004R Craptastic? No good tranny shops? Nonsense I only put 4 in my 1989 caprice when I was 17 all within 100,000miles. first 3 lasted 3 months total due to the shop putting "rebuilds" to replace the crap "rebuild" they just did the fourth from another shop and another $1200 lasted 60k til I sold the car however it was never right when it shifted. Beware of national chain tranny shops.

anyone could put a tranny in that brougham, me and a friend did it once and took total 6 hours. Neither of us did a tranny replacement before but it is still going. Hell if us 2 bozos could do it anyone could.

89fatb
02-03-06, 11:16 PM
no wonder nobody trusts auto techs because everybody keeps talking about how crooked they are. the few that dont belong near a vehicle make the rest of us look like rip off artists. most of the time most people dont realize the money it takes to maintain a vehicle and it repair its various issues from its horrible abuse, and they get overwhelmed thinking that "mechanic is trying to rip me off" when really he's trying make you aware of every issue. if he doesnt do this then that same opiniated individual comes running back yelling that EVER SINCE YOU DID MY ...... NOW MY ...... IS BROKEN. just please give credit where credit is due.:cool:

N0DIH
02-04-06, 03:06 AM
I worked in an oil change shop, and guys there were able to convince some people that they needed to change their air filter every oil change. Well, it WAS dirty, so it must NEED to be changed, and 10% of the people bought into it, but some would, and you also never saw them again.... I didn't, and wouldn't. Over a short time I moved up to the head tune up mech, same deal there, I had to, by policy try, to suggestive sell parts (the intention was to make the customer determine that it needed to be replaced), but honestly told them my opinion too. That carried a lot of weight with the customer trusting me. I valued that and would not violate that.

Yes, I feel that there are some legit, honest mechanics out there, but I also feel that they are grossly out numbered with incompetent mechanics that love (often not intentionally) to waste your money troubleshooting because they have no clue what they are doing and need your stash of cash for a stock of parts that put in, see if that fixes it, then try something else and when that doesn't fix it, try something else. Like O2 sensors. Oh, the code was set, swap em all. Yup, sure, try fixing the real problem.

Like my mom and dad's RV that they brought in for a recall on the dash (was dim, so they recalled it), the mech's replaced it per the recall, BUT they didn't even check to make sure that it worked right. My mom and dad had to go back in after THEY figured out it wasn't working still and to have them fix it right. Duh, at least they could have CHECKED it. RV's are nightmares....

By all means it costs $$ to maintain a car/truck, I won't argue that for a second. But not to the extent that people in this country are paying. People spend 10's of BILLIONS of $$ on unneccessary and unneeded repairs. The cost of maintaining cars is inflated terribly. Honestly, I am also aware that it isn't the mechanics that are all at fault too, often the dealerships are just as messed up, only the are often crooked, intentionally trying to get more repairs to help the bottom line.

Where do you work at? Dealer or shop? I am not terribly far away.

Maybe I have just run into the idiots, and not run into good solid mechanics who have a clue of what they are really doing. I have also learned that I need to be doing the work and not them, 1. Costs too much to pay someone to do work I can do, and 2. I trust my work, and troubeshooting skills (I used to work on $7M radar systems, troubleshooting was my life), when you troubleshoot to component level in complicated personal electronics for TS-16949/QS-9000 5 Phase/8D reports, and then you find the REAL problem, not a group of parts that might be it. What the mechanics that I have come in contact with is replacing a few parts not the single part that was the problem.

AAMCO has a heck of a bad reputation for unnecessary and unneed repairs. Like a misadjusted TV cable and instead of adjusting it, they talk you into rebuilding the whole trans. Again, maybe it is the few bad apples that give that company that reputation. Maybe they are a good company, maybe they do excellent work, but a bad reputation is hard to get away from.

I am the customer (when they like me or not) who will question the mechanic and have the show me that it is bad, or not. "Hmm, so that brake rotor is down to the vents, no rotor surface left on side. Well, I think you are trying to scam me into a new rotor, that one is ok, just put it back on....." but how many brake shops turn your rotors down whethter it needs it or not, just to sell your rotors or drums the next time you are in. That is just plain wrong.

I have had many people tell me to open my own repair shop. I told them no way, and they think I am nuts, but I would end up hating my hobby.

fullserviceman
02-04-06, 08:29 PM
Like the local chevy dealer here that told me I needed ALL of my rotors turned for $150, even though I just put new rotors and pads on the front of the car 1 day before it went to the shop for a warranty radio replacement. I knew the rear were bad as well as the pads but nope all rotors must be turned and no need of replacing pads on the rear a simple turning of the rotor was all I needed so they said. I asked a local cadillac dealer about the coolant supplement we all know of their response was "shouldn't put it in unless you have a slow radiator leak". There are a ton of gyp-joints around I wish there was a list nationwide good honest mechanics around. Hell for all of our trucks and my 3 cars I could care less of the cost if the work is needed and done correctly rather than paying for improper or unneeded repairs. Just my thoughts.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-04-06, 09:17 PM
One thing they never have at tranny shops:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005C0XO.01._PE04_.Vaseline-Petroleum-Jelly-Baby-Fresh-Scent-Tub-13oz._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

They take it all apart..then they call you in and tell you the price..right then they have you bent over, and the vaseline jar is always dry.

Benzilla
02-05-06, 12:11 AM
Hey dopestar, this is totaly off topic, but I was just on cardomain and theres a caddy that looks almost exactly like yours, I mean I had to come on here and check your year and location to make sure it wasin't you! heres a link if you want to check it out
http://lowrider.cardomain.com/ride/2240174
just had to tell you, peace.

Big_Blue
02-05-06, 12:37 AM
Dopestar you llive in NJ ? right
Call Cottman Transmissons. They will and can do your trans better then before. You and I know Dealers in NJ are rip off artist

DopeStar 156
02-05-06, 02:55 AM
Hey dopestar, this is totaly off topic, but I was just on cardomain and theres a caddy that looks almost exactly like yours, I mean I had to come on here and check your year and location to make sure it wasin't you! heres a link if you want to check it out
http://lowrider.cardomain.com/ride/2240174
just had to tell you, peace.
HAHAHAHA!!! No that's not me, but that's Pimpin88, also a member here. Haha funny you found his.

turbojimmy
02-05-06, 05:28 AM
There's nothing wrong with AAMCO. They're expensive but they stand behind their work. The old adage 'you get what you pay for' applies ESPECIALLY to automatic transmissions. Repairing them is an art and the facility has to be surgically clean in order to do it right. They quoted me like $2,000 to rebuild the 2004R in my GN a few years ago but like an idiot I took it to a local shop. The owner of said shop was really nice and I spent $1,000 with him until I ultimately realized he was never going to figure out how to fix it. He had the trans in and out 4 times, ultimately replacing the CASE.

I took the car to Level10 in Hamburg who charged me almost $3,000 for a 'bullet proof' trans. That was about 4 or 5 years ago. I've put LOTS of 11 second passes on that transmission and it still shifts hard enough to break your neck. I did snap the forward drum in it early last year, but that's what 600+ ft. lbs. of torque and Mickey Thompson tires will do to a cast part - something's gotta give somewhere. It was an easy fix (relatively speaking) and I replaced it with a billet part. The 2004R is a great transmission but, again, rebuilding them is an art. A lot of people like to blame the transmission when the culprit is actually poor maintenance or a bad mechanic . Mine had 100K miles and many, many 1/4-mile passes on it before it quit. My brother is running mid-12s on his 125k-mile 100% stock 2004R in his T-type.

Over the past couple of years there have been a couple of more guys pop up specializing in the 2004R. I get my stuff from this guy: www.ckperformance.com He really knows his stuff. I bought a very, very thorough rebuild manual from him and some hi-po parts. I used the manual to replace that forward drum. The inside of an automatic transmission is a little scary, but I wouldn't hesitate to rebuild one myself. It requires some special tools but for the money you save you can buy many of them and still come out ahead. CK sells a heavy-duty (and I mean heavy duty) rebuild kit for $289. Or an entire race-ready GN version of the 2004R for $1,600. The GN version has a different valve body, governor, 1-2 servo and some other minor differences. It's a great transmission.

Taking the trans out of a RWD car is not too bad, but it's much, much, much, much easier if you have a lift. I've never employed the use of a lift myself, but I can tell you using jackstands is scary and a total bitch.

Sounds like you're okay for now...good luck with it.

Jim

DopeStar 156
02-05-06, 03:39 PM
There's nothing wrong with AAMCO. They're expensive but they stand behind their work. The old adage 'you get what you pay for' applies ESPECIALLY to automatic transmissions. Repairing them is an art and the facility has to be surgically clean in order to do it right. They quoted me like $2,000 to rebuild the 2004R in my GN a few years ago but like an idiot I took it to a local shop. The owner of said shop was really nice and I spent $1,000 with him until I ultimately realized he was never going to figure out how to fix it. He had the trans in and out 4 times, ultimately replacing the CASE.

I took the car to Level10 in Hamburg who charged me almost $3,000 for a 'bullet proof' trans. That was about 4 or 5 years ago. I've put LOTS of 11 second passes on that transmission and it still shifts hard enough to break your neck. I did snap the forward drum in it early last year, but that's what 600+ ft. lbs. of torque and Mickey Thompson tires will do to a cast part - something's gotta give somewhere. It was an easy fix (relatively speaking) and I replaced it with a billet part. The 2004R is a great transmission but, again, rebuilding them is an art. A lot of people like to blame the transmission when the culprit is actually poor maintenance or a bad mechanic . Mine had 100K miles and many, many 1/4-mile passes on it before it quit. My brother is running mid-12s on his 125k-mile 100% stock 2004R in his T-type.

Over the past couple of years there have been a couple of more guys pop up specializing in the 2004R. I get my stuff from this guy: www.ckperformance.com He really knows his stuff. I bought a very, very thorough rebuild manual from him and some hi-po parts. I used the manual to replace that forward drum. The inside of an automatic transmission is a little scary, but I wouldn't hesitate to rebuild one myself. It requires some special tools but for the money you save you can buy many of them and still come out ahead. CK sells a heavy-duty (and I mean heavy duty) rebuild kit for $289. Or an entire race-ready GN version of the 2004R for $1,600. The GN version has a different valve body, governor, 1-2 servo and some other minor differences. It's a great transmission.

Taking the trans out of a RWD car is not too bad, but it's much, much, much, much easier if you have a lift. I've never employed the use of a lift myself, but I can tell you using jackstands is scary and a total bitch.

Sounds like you're okay for now...good luck with it.

Jim
Thanks a lot. I still haven't had to opportunity to give it the extreme test on the highway but local driving it's been just fine. I didn't wanna drive the car to South Jersey yesterday although it woul;d've been the perfect testing ground so I took my Chevy instead. Sometime this week I'll drive the car to school and test it out there. THat was the scenario where I discovered the problem.

Benzilla
02-05-06, 04:22 PM
HAHAHAHA!!! No that's not me, but that's Pimpin88, also a member here. Haha funny you found his.
Yeah, he just created the page yesterday. Other than the grille and the year, that car looks exactly like yours! I realy like that color.

DopeStar 156
02-05-06, 09:08 PM
Haha yeah, me, him, and another member all have 80's Broughams in that color. I think mine's the only Firemist one though, I'm not sure if theirs are.

pimpin88
02-06-06, 09:33 AM
Haha yeah, me, him, and another member all have 80's Broughams in that color. I think mine's the only Firemist one though, I'm not sure if theirs are.


yea, mine is another firemist one. autumn maple firemist!!!!

im not sure about the third guy.

DopeStar 156
02-06-06, 03:52 PM
Luddyludwick. That's the third guy. He's got an 85.

Night Wolf
02-06-06, 08:17 PM
Sorry, but I still stand behind my opinion on the 200R4.

it *can* be built up nice and such... but stock, they are junk. In a rebuild use HD parts, a shift kit and add a tranny cooler and you are grand...

The 200R4 didn't do anything "great" it just worked... it didn't shift really nice and smooth, nor a firm positive shift, the overall power handling wasn't too high and the longjevity of it is pretty bad...

I am sure in the lighter weight G-bodys and such, it wasn't as bad.... I am basing alot of my experience with it off the Brougham, where multiple family members have had problems with it and I see it alot. 120k on an original 200R4 in a Brougham is in warning territory, by 150k I would have the money aside for a rebuild already.

Of course I am comparing it to other GM trannys used in similar cars.... Perhaps by comparing it to the TH400 isn't the best, but I do, and when you compare the track records... and that the TH400 was dealing with much higher output big blocks, in much heavier, or just as heavy cars, vs. the 200R4 dealing with a low-power small block... it is just clear there is something wrong. The 4L80E is also a much better trans then the 200R4... hell even GM's FWD trans... 440T4/4T60E with a simialr power capability rating just out live and out perform them.

I have never been a fan of the 200R4/700R4.... yes, they can be built up nice, and then are decent.... but then again, nearly any trans can be. Still, its the cheapest way to effectivly get over drive in an older car or something.... no matter that though, either of those will never find a spot behind my 425, or a 500 in the future... the TH400 is just too much of a great trans.

lst of all.... the fact that there was never a trans cooler on these cars from the factory really didn't help either.

turbojimmy
02-06-06, 08:41 PM
they can be built up nice, and then are decent.... but then again, nearly any trans can be.

The stock 2004Rs in the Regals work great. The only real weak point is the forward drum which will snap if enough torque is applied to it. The rebuilders put a different 1-2 servo in them, take some check balls out of the valve body and such, but the stock parts pretty much remain. In stock form they bark the tires on the 1-2 shift. I think it has a lot to do with the configuration, as you mentioned. The G-bodies are relatively light, the torque converters are matched very well to the torque band of the turbo V6 and there are just enough different parts (servo, governor, valve body) to make it interesting. The BRF 2004R also had the benefit of a cooler in the stock Turbo Regals, too. When I moved to a 3600 stall converter I put an external cooler on. The fluid still looks as red as the day I put it in.

The strip-only TRs do usually move to a TH400. But I drive mine on the highway fairly often and like the OD and the lockup TC.

Jim

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-06-06, 09:03 PM
So were the 200R4/700R4's just used in the big RWD sedans or what?

Night Wolf
02-06-06, 09:11 PM
They were the main GM RWD transmission after the TH350/TH400 left the cars.... IIRC they stuck with the trucks though.... or did some trucks get the 700R?

the 200R4/700R4 were used in G-bodys, F-bodys, C-bodys.... everything.

I mean, yeah, some of them last and went a long time... its not that they were "bad" its just, IMO they weren't "good"

trying to move a car that weighs ~5,000lbs when loaded... and even though, say the 307 is low power, it still has a good deal of low-RPM torque.... that just all adds up to alot of stress on the transmission.

But then you compare it to say, the TH400... and it just falls short in every aspect, except for the overdrive.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-06-06, 09:18 PM
So one could say that a 200R4 is like a 305 or 307, whereas the TH400/ 4L60E is like a 500 or 350?

Night Wolf
02-06-06, 11:10 PM
ummmm....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-07-06, 12:18 AM
Nevermind.

DopeStar 156
02-07-06, 02:09 AM
No I got what you were trying to say. The 200R4 transmission and the 305/307 engines are under rated for that particular body in opposition to the TH400 and 4L60E transmissions and the 500 and 350 engines are better suited for cars of this size.

ralphb
02-07-06, 07:04 AM
There is mention that the 200R4 didn't have a cooler in stock form. My 1988 Brougham has the stock oil to water cooler in the radiator. I know this is not as effective as an oil to air cooler, but it seems to be adequate for the application if the car is not driven hard or used for towing.

Can anyone comment on the smoothness in operation of the 4L60 and 4L60E ?

Night Wolf
02-07-06, 11:59 AM
There is mention that the 200R4 didn't have a cooler in stock form. My 1988 Brougham has the stock oil to water cooler in the radiator. I know this is not as effective as an oil to air cooler, but it seems to be adequate for the application if the car is not driven hard or used for towing.

Can anyone comment on the smoothness in operation of the 4L60 and 4L60E ?

Nearly every car has that...

while it *is* a trans oil cooler... I do not consider it one.... a real trans cooler is an external mini-radiator type air to oil cooler... very effective.

the Coupe came with an external trans cooler factory (also has the one in the radiator.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-07-06, 12:07 PM
No I got what you were trying to say. The 200R4 transmission and the 305/307 engines are under rated for that particular body in opposition to the TH400 and 4L60E transmissions and the 500 and 350 engines are better suited for cars of this size.

Exactly! :)