: Differences in the Northstar engines



DRowe
02-01-06, 02:46 PM
I was just curious to see what is different between the 275hp and 300 hp versions of the Northstar. Also, how does one take out the MAF screen? I took a quick look the other day, but figured it would be easier if I just asked first. Thanks

Ranger
02-01-06, 02:57 PM
The difference between the 275 vs 300 hp engine is the intake cam and PCM.

That is not a MAF "screen". It is an airflow straightener. It is there to provide proper air flow over the MAF sensor. DO NOT remove it. It is not a restriction and nothing will be gained by removal. Infact, removal may cause drivability problems.

Tommy Deville
02-01-06, 09:49 PM
whats a maf? is like a MILF?

denscor
02-01-06, 09:59 PM
If you can program the car you will not have a problem with descreening the MAF. You have a 50-50 chance of gaining HP by descreening it. If your car is rich it will lean it out and you will gain HP in contrast if it is lean it makes it leaner you lose HP! I have descreen many cars some works some doesn't.GM descreened the 2002-2004 Corvette ZO6 and programmed accordingly so there is not an issue. My 2001 Corvette was descreened and reprogrammed accordingly,and I have been driving it for years with no issues!:cool2:

denscor
02-01-06, 10:06 PM
whats a maf? is like a MILF?

Mass Air Flow :histeric:

danbuc
02-01-06, 10:07 PM
Removing the screen from thr Mass Airflow Sensor in these car's will do more harm than good. As fas as the new Corvette goes.....they use a new MAF sensor which no longer requires the use of an airflow straightener. If it has one, it's there for a reason. Without it, the airflow across the wire becomes turbulent, resulting in a scewed reading being sent to the PCM, resulting in an offset A/F ratio. Programming around the screen doesn't do any real good, since the screen isn't a major restriction in the system. In the grand scheme of things...removing it to make that extra 1/10hp that you will never see...is just not worth the trouble.

denscor
02-01-06, 10:57 PM
That why you program it, you can custom the A/F ratios! GM cars from factory are normally pig rich Not all cars run the A/F ratios to max power ect! Some are rich from factory some are lean You simply tell the computer to get tables without the screens ! The 2001-2004 LS1 Corvette uses the same MAF as Cadillac, LS1, LS based trucks ect! The ZO6(LS6 motor) Is the one thats descreened. Its a chance you take for the endless quest for HP! Do it take a chance you only live once!!!!!!! You might gain only 2-3 hp if that much! seen more seen less! :cool2:

danbuc
02-01-06, 11:22 PM
Even if you tell it to run a different A/F ratio with the stock MAF sensor...it's still based off the reading being sent to the PCM fomr the MAF sesnor. If those readings are off...then your still not getting a good signal. The screen isn't there to determine the A/F...it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's there to make sure there's an even flow of air across the wire. Newer screenless MAF sensors use wires designed to work without a screen. Without that even air flow...you end up with faulty reading, which will still affect your re-programmed A/F tables...sinc they are based off the readings from the MAF. I bet that if you reprogrammed it, and kept the Scren, you'd see more gains in power form it...since your working with a much better signal form the MAF sensor.

eldorado1
02-02-06, 12:05 AM
Taking the screen off, you'll only screw yourself over. Especially idle, when airflow is at a minimum, turbulent air will change the readings by large percentages. This can lead to unsteady surging idles. This directly affects the AFR, and can cause the computer to correct by unnecessarily leaning or richening the mix. This will carry over to WOT. Engine damage is a possibility, but unlikely with how rich GM programs the computers from the factory.

In any case, it's not a good idea.

denscor
02-02-06, 01:28 AM
Even if you tell it to run a different A/F ratio with the stock MAF sensor...it's still based off the reading being sent to the PCM fomr the MAF sesnor. If those readings are off...then your still not getting a good signal. The screen isn't there to determine the A/F...it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's there to make sure there's an even flow of air across the wire. Newer screenless MAF sensors use wires designed to work without a screen. Without that even air flow...you end up with faulty reading, which will still affect your re-programmed A/F tables...sinc they are based off the readings from the MAF. I bet that if you reprogrammed it, and kept the Scren, you'd see more gains in power form it...since your working with a much better signal form the MAF sensor.

My Vette Dyno 700 Hp with the screen removed on stock bottom end 348 cc(5.7),using HP tuner,it has no idling problems and A/F staying at where they need to be although the rpm range.Many LS1 FI guys descreen their the motors and have no issues.

danbuc
02-02-06, 05:03 PM
Yeah....maybe you can get away with tuning around the screen on an LS1, but it's not gonna happen in a Caddy. That is unless you find osmeone who can figure out exactly what needs to be changes in the OBDI PCM. It's IMPOSSIBLE on an OBDII car. Therefor......it's pointless to do it on a N*, especially one that's OBDII, since you can reprogram anything.

denscor
02-03-06, 01:37 AM
Yeah....maybe you can get away with tuning around the screen on an LS1, but it's not gonna happen in a Caddy. That is unless you find osmeone who can figure out exactly what needs to be changes in the OBDI PCM. It's IMPOSSIBLE on an OBDII car. Therefor......it's pointless to do it on a N*, especially one that's OBDII, since you can reprogram anything.

OBDI(around 1986 depending on car- 1995) is a chip you can have one burned OBDII(1996- up) is flash programming you use programmers computer(laptops ect) On a different note Watch using oil filled filters ie: k&N the oil goes on the MAF and gives it false readings!

eldorado1
02-03-06, 01:49 PM
OBDI(around 1986 depending on car- 1995) is a chip you can have one burned OBDII(1996- up) is flash programming you use programmers computer(laptops ect) On a different note Watch using oil filled filters ie: k&N the oil goes on the MAF and gives it false readings!

his point was, nobody can reprogram an OBDII northstar computer.

jadcock
02-03-06, 01:59 PM
If you can "flash program" your Cadillac's computer, you're sitting on a gold mine. XMS would hire you in a second to finish their supercharger project that stalled YEARS AGO because they can't figure out how to program the computer.

Comparing LS1s and Northstars is apples to oranges. Just because you can hack a Corvette computer doesn't mean you can hack a Cadillac's. GM didn't install the airflow straightener there for their health...it's there for a reason. Your lack of a bad experience by removing one doesn't imply a good experience. More times than not, it's a waste of time to do, and can cause many problems later. You gain nothing by removing it, and stand to lose power, economy, and driveability. As you stated, GM removed it in the Z06 Corvette BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT STYLE MAF SENSOR THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE IT. That statement should stand by itself. If it's there, you need it. If it's not, you're not missing anything.

Guy,mn.usa
02-03-06, 02:50 PM
Anyone try or call Diabole tuners for obII?

danbuc
02-03-06, 03:07 PM
I personally spoke wiht one of the head programmers for the company that makes LT1 and LS1 edit, and they said they had no plans to work on the N* at any point in the near future. The problem isn't so much whether or not theres a company that can do it...but whether or not there's a company that really cares. In reality...there really isn't that big of a market for tuning the N*, therefor most companies are hesitant to spend the money and time in developing tuning software for an engine that won't see much use form it. Aside form the few of us on here that wish we could do it, the vast majority of Cadillac owners have no interest in tunring the N*. That's where the real problem is. If there was enoguh interest in it, then maybe comoanies would begin to take it seriously. Without the number of customers that they have for the SBC's, they simply can't justify the effort to work on the N*.

jadcock
02-03-06, 03:34 PM
Then it's curious to me why XMS did all the work up front including bracket fabbing and construction, and even including taking deposits to my understanding, and then suddenly quitting when they found it "impossible" to reprogram the computer. It sounds like if any company has enough drive to do it, it's someone with 75% of a project already done and customers with money deposits already paid. But even they fell through, again, to my understanding.

danbuc
02-03-06, 04:32 PM
Well, it never fell through on the OBDI cars. It's just, nobody ever bought one. Looking at how Mark set up the fuel management for his turbo....it's seems entirely possible that had this piggy back system been available when XMS was still working on the project, that it could have worked just as well. Unfortunetly, the piggy back unit Mark is using wasn't around. I wonder if it's worth a shot calling them, to see if they still have any of the parts floating around. It would be interesting to see if they still had some of the ones they were testing lying around, or if they even made more than one.

94CaddyConcours
02-04-06, 08:25 PM
I totally understand all of us point of view. Only if more people are interested then its possible. Reason why those Japanese car have many mod are because they have more interested and is cheap than ours (honda etc. Not to offend anyone)

denscor
02-04-06, 09:59 PM
Here an Idea, maybe if some of us who want to mod our cars bother the programmers enough they might make programming for them or a programmer. The trouble is there is no interest in making a program for them, all GM computer can be changed!!!:thumbsup:

danbuc
02-04-06, 11:57 PM
It's would require at least a couple hundred peopel minimum to get any tuning company to even think about considering doing work on the N* PCM. Even with all the interest on this site, we simply don't have enough people to get these companies really interested. Thousands upon thousands of people tune there LS1, and LT1,...ect..ect. We just don't have the numbers to make it worth while for them.

94CaddyConcours
04-29-06, 09:42 PM
I emailed a guy who drop a N8 into a MR2 and asked what kind of ECU he use.
His respond:
I use a Electromotive TEC3
http://www.electromotive-inc.com

I dont know if this will help.

parts68
04-29-06, 10:25 PM
I have a friend working on one of my OBD1 memcals to see if it can be hacked.
Ive talked to someone who says they can do the OBD2 N* but I havent confirmed that yet.