: 99 STS Turbo charged video



MARK99STS
01-31-06, 03:59 PM
Ok guys, here is a video of clips we shot.

http://www.nwbassfishing.com/users/mark99sts/mark99sts_turbo.wmv

Watch how fast the tach climbs. I did the pull in 2nd gear starting about 33-34mph and stoped about 6200 rpm.

Enjoy

Odin8
01-31-06, 04:07 PM
That looks sharp, and sounds friggin mean. Goes like a raped ape too. I wanna see it do a nasty holeshot. =P

caddydaddy
01-31-06, 04:07 PM
Damn, that thing flies! I'd hate to hit something ever so lightly in the front, you'd smash up some serious $$$!

Awesome job btw! I want one for my 2000 STS! :)

chuckdobbins
01-31-06, 04:45 PM
that thing is fierce :hide: !!!

the only time ive seen a car pull that hard at high speeds, was in that really old video that used to be on the kill section with all the japanese kids surrounding a yota with some sort of rotary engine...you know, the one that they show the kids in the car laughing hysterically when the yota takes off?

amazing car. very VERY impressive

danbuc
01-31-06, 05:26 PM
HOLY CRAP!!!!! That thing's an ANIMAL! Oh man...I hope I can save up enoguh money to do somethin' like that to mine eventually...hehe. Excellent work Mark. I think you've exceeded everyone's expectations with this project. Keep up the good work.....and get some more video!:thumbsup:

auroradude
01-31-06, 05:40 PM
WOW! Very nice man!!! very nice! Do you think that can be done to a 4.0 Aurora or should i not even bother ask.

STS al UK
01-31-06, 05:48 PM
Kin Ell :wtf: That thing is mental.... I want one.
Seriously nice work man.

eldorado1
01-31-06, 06:01 PM
estimated 0-60 times?

mtflight
01-31-06, 06:15 PM
Ok guys, here is a video of clips we shot.

http://www.nwbassfishing.com/users/mark99sts/mark99sts_turbo.wmv

Watch how fast the tach climbs. I did the pull in 2nd gear starting about 33-34mph and stoped about 6200 rpm.

Enjoy

WOW, Mark. Friggin' awesome. Genius. :worship:

auroradude
01-31-06, 06:43 PM
I have to ask. Do you have to remove the front fascia every single time you want to drive the car? It would look horrible without the bumper. I cant imagine the aurora like that either, it would be even worse.

MARK99STS
01-31-06, 07:02 PM
I have to ask. Do you have to remove the front fascia every single time you want to drive the car? It would look horrible without the bumper. I cant imagine the aurora like that either, it would be even worse.


The bumper is off now when we were tunning it, but it will go back on and be completely stealth and stock looking.

samm
01-31-06, 07:21 PM
just so your wording is right, that is TURBO charged correct? i'm imagining thats why you put that in the lower section of the engine compartment. or rather, front end. pretty ingenious i might add.
some questions for you, which would supply more low end power, turbo or super? how about high speed? and how about cooling the exhaust, how did you go about that?

MARK99STS
01-31-06, 07:55 PM
just so your wording is right, that is TURBO charged correct? i'm imagining thats why you put that in the lower section of the engine compartment. or rather, front end. pretty ingenious i might add.
some questions for you, which would supply more low end power, turbo or super? how about high speed? and how about cooling the exhaust, how did you go about that?

A turbo will always outperform a supercharger both in lower end and upper end. The exhaust is ceramic coated.

eldorado1
01-31-06, 08:16 PM
A turbo will always outperform a supercharger both in lower end and upper end.

That's a pretty large generalization...

Usually turbochargers are made to make boost off the line (and fall flat on their face afterwards), or have that "lag" and make high-rpm boost. And everything inbetween is a compromise.

A supercharger is usually made to make high-rpm boost (like a large "laggy" turbo), however, it doesn't have the off the line lag that a large turbo would have. In essence, it's a large turbo with the spool time of a small turbo. It's the best of all worlds.

This comes at the expense of power though, since supercharger efficiencies are low, like 50%. Typical turbocharger efficiency is upwards of 80%. At the same boost level, a turbo charger will make more power. In addition, if you go with the large turbo, it's gentler on the transmission because boost builds slowly. A small turbo with instant-off-the-line-torque or a supercharger puts lots of strain on the transmission.

auroradude
01-31-06, 08:55 PM
Mark's is a small turbo correct? That trans is gonna blow I bet. Hey Mark, can you make a new video thats all in car? I wanna see an off-the-line vid at full throttle heh. Your so lucky man.

All in all, how much did this total project cost including labor?

eldorado1
01-31-06, 10:01 PM
Mark's is a small turbo correct?

According to the specs he's made public, yes. Like he mentioned in one of his other 92 threads (that's a topic for another time..), some massaging of the turbo components can slide the power curve around, so really the only person that knows the answer is him or his builder.

I also wanted to note that there's nothing wrong with a small turbo. In these large, heavy cars, high torque just off idle is what you want. Especially since the northstar is weak in this area. But you'll be trading torque for HP..

cart69
01-31-06, 10:21 PM
wow that sweet where do i sign up??awesome

MARK99STS
02-01-06, 12:29 AM
WOW! Very nice man!!! very nice! Do you think that can be done to a 4.0 Aurora or should i not even bother ask.


I know it could be done as the same principles would apply as on my STS. We would just have to design it based on the space and placement confinements. Honest to God if we can turbo charge an STS with absolutely no room for anything, we can turbo any car as our system DOES work.

MARK99STS
02-01-06, 12:36 AM
wow that sweet where do i sign up??awesome

I'm in Ohio, not that far from you. We could easily install one for you.

MARK99STS
02-01-06, 12:43 AM
I also wanted to note that there's nothing wrong with a small turbo. In these large, heavy cars, high torque just off idle is what you want. Especially since the northstar is weak in this area. But you'll be trading torque for HP..

You are right, that is why we went with the current setup. Jim was also concerned about being able to limit the boost with a large turbo as anything over 7 or 8 could be fatal for this motor being a 10.3:1 compression ratio. Because the boost it is so instantaneous it is almost like a nitros shot.

There is no way I can do a full throttle off the line on the street as it just blows the tires off. Traction is going to be the biggest problem. Running about 14psi in my slicks at the track I hope I can hook.

Do you think it is easier on the tranny since I have an LSD and a 3600 stall converter, and don't forget I have the tranny cooler in the wheel well. That has got to help save the tranny because heat is the biggest cause of death for trannys.

davesdeville
02-01-06, 04:42 AM
That's pretty damn awesome. You can see some pretty good weight transfer to the back in the last segment.

What fuel are you using, Mark? Can't imagine it being pump gas with 7psi on top of 10.3:1...

Really can't wait for dyno numbers and track times!

caddydaddy
02-01-06, 08:36 AM
Would the turbo kit work better on the 2000-up Northstars with the lower 10:1 compression? I would assume the same kit would fit?

MARK99STS
02-01-06, 09:10 AM
I just use Shell 93 octane.
I would think it would be better on the newer N* as lower compression is better regarding detonation.

eldorado1
02-01-06, 09:16 AM
Do you think it is easier on the tranny since I have an LSD and a 3600 stall converter, and don't forget I have the tranny cooler in the wheel well. That has got to help save the tranny because heat is the biggest cause of death for trannys.

LSD = Good for tranny
Cooler = Good for tranny
3600 stall converter = hmmm..............

usually a higher stall speed means more slipping, which means more heat, but the cooler will probably take care of that.

CadillacSTS42005
02-01-06, 09:34 AM
just pray to god you dont smash into anything with half of ur bumper support missing id be really careful

N0DIH
02-01-06, 02:06 PM
01001100 01101111 01101110 01100111
01101100 01101001 01110110 01100101
01110100 01101000 01100101
01000110 01101100 01100101 01100101 01110100 01110111 01101111 01101111 01100100




01000011 01100001 01100100 01101001 01101100 01101100 01100001 01100011

01010011 01110100 01100001 01101110 01100100 01100001 01110010 01100100

01101111 01100110

01110100 01101000 01100101

01010111 01101111 01110010 01101100 01100100

danbuc
02-01-06, 02:55 PM
01000100 01100001 01101101 01101110 00100000 01110010 01101001 01100111 01101000 01110100 00100001 ;)

caddydaddy
02-01-06, 02:58 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself! :)

andrew99eldorado
02-01-06, 03:34 PM
thats a mean setup.......what kind of ball park figure to install?

mtflight
02-01-06, 04:06 PM
01100010 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101011 01110100 01101000 01110010 01101111 01110101 01100111 01101000

auroradude
02-01-06, 04:14 PM
stop the goddamn spamming already guys, cmon. your ruining a great thread. IF NOT the best thread on this board yet. Someone delete the gay posts above plz.

samm
02-01-06, 09:59 PM
hey, mark would a supercharger with 7 to 8 psi boost even be worth the trouble? or should i suck up the hard work and tap into the exhaust for a turbo system? i'm going to U of MN for mech. engineering and a super or turbo for my car would be a pretty kick ass project. i appreciate it, SAM

eldorado1
02-01-06, 10:32 PM
hey, mark would a supercharger with 7 to 8 psi boost even be worth the trouble? or should i suck up the hard work and tap into the exhaust for a turbo system? i'm going to U of MN for mech. engineering and a super or turbo for my car would be a pretty kick ass project. i appreciate it, SAM

yeah, 7psi would be worth 50% more power over stock... That's 450. Of course, flow efficiency increases with boost, so you'd probably see 500.

mtflight
02-02-06, 12:05 AM
stop the goddamn spamming already guys, cmon. your ruining a great thread. IF NOT the best thread on this board yet. Someone delete the gay posts above plz.

:cookoo:All these binaries are compliments.

I think they made this smilie for you: :chill:

Now go change all your fluids, belts, and hoses--it's been 10K miles already! :thumbsup:

MARK99STS
02-02-06, 12:45 AM
Thanks Eldorado1 for answering that. What kind of #'s do you think I will see on the dno at the wheels with 7psi?

MARK99STS
02-02-06, 12:47 AM
thats a mean setup.......what kind of ball park figure to install?

We are still compiling all the hours and are working on the final #'s.

samm
02-02-06, 01:19 AM
any chance of a long distance intern mark? hehe are you guys a firm yet? it wouldnt look bad on my future resumes...

illumina
02-02-06, 02:36 AM
I'm in Ohio, not that far from you. We could easily install one for you.

I'm in Ohio too. Please PM me or I'll PM you. I would like some more information on what you've done.

Thanks, Mike.

davesdeville
02-02-06, 07:47 AM
Nerds and their binary... sheesh :p

The 4T80e is pretty strong. The 4T65e in most if not all L67 SC 3800 cars is weaker than the 4T80e, and it manages to take the abuse of most modded L67s, so I would think the 4T80e should do fine in your STS. The LSD and cooler can only improve things.

I have a question that's unrelated to the turbo project I'll PM you in a minute here.

eldorado1
02-02-06, 10:46 AM
Thanks Eldorado1 for answering that. What kind of #'s do you think I will see on the dno at the wheels with 7psi?

Does it hold a steady 7psi all the way to 6000? If so, probably about 360 at the wheels. You might hit 380, or 340... Depends on the tune. btw, is the dyno still on for this saturday?

MARK99STS
02-02-06, 10:58 AM
Does it hold a steady 7psi all the way to 6000? If so, probably about 360 at the wheels. You might hit 380, or 340... Depends on the tune. btw, is the dyno still on for this saturday?

The weather is calling for snow and I have slicks on it now with no replacement tires yet so I don't think it will happen this weekend.

AlBundy
02-02-06, 10:01 PM
Congrades on the accomplishment Mark99STS. Cheers.

illumina
02-03-06, 12:15 AM
35 mph to 75 mph in less that four seconds?!? Nice!

Katshot
02-03-06, 05:47 AM
Yeah the car sounds sweet and seems to be pretty quick but to be honest, installing a turbo or supercharger on a car isn't a big deal. The BIG deal is doing it and having the engine and drivetrain stay together. I've done plenty of installs on cars/motorcycles that we didn't care about and knew they would blow fairly soon. So was it anything more than just spending money and time to destroy an engine for fun? IMO, no. My guess is, this project fits into that catagory.

Guy,mn.usa
02-03-06, 09:18 AM
Great fab work!!!!! It looks fantastic. Sign me up really.
The bumper mask....maybe cut a hole where the filter is at and use some stainless steel mesh to fill the hole. Also behind the bumper....make a box that sealed around the air filter inlet pipe and to the inside of the bumper....Ram air effect...cooler air the blower is going to get really hot????
I am very intrested in your set-up.
One thing more....the rear turbo set-up for the new gto, it saves space because it does not have to go under the hood. Would this work for the '98 STS?
I think that Turbo will melt your bumber too...do you have a blanket for it or is it coated like the headers?
Again really cool work I look forward to your track times and dyno #'s....
Just my 2 cents...thanks for the video it was great!
Guy

MARK99STS
02-03-06, 09:35 AM
Yeah the car sounds sweet and seems to be pretty quick but to be honest, installing a turbo or supercharger on a car isn't a big deal. The BIG deal is doing it and having the engine and drivetrain stay together. I've done plenty of installs on cars/motorcycles that we didn't care about and knew they would blow fairly soon. So was it anything more than just spending money and time to destroy an engine for fun? IMO, no. My guess is, this project fits into that catagory.


If it wasn't such a BIG deal then why has everybody in the past that has tried it failed.
If it wasn't such BIG deal then you would know that the main issues with these cars is the computer and how to get around it to control fuel without throwing codes and shutting the rest of the car down.
If it wasn't such a BIG deal, I wouldn't have spent 2 months engineering and designing it to look good AND work WITHOUT blowing it up.
If it wasn't such a BIG deal, I could have slapped on a turbo with the pipes hanging out the sides with no computer control and drove it at WOT down the road and watch it blow just for the fun of it.

I don't know why I even wasted my time responding to your post, because it is obvious that you could have done this in your sleep without even trying because you seem to know all and can do all. I guess I will bow down to you now.

MARK99STS
02-03-06, 09:36 AM
A

Guy,mn.usa
02-03-06, 10:00 AM
Mark...don't let that dude bother you...
It is a peice of engineering art and it works with a obII....GREAT WORK!
I just love it man I wish it were on mine.
Here's 330rwhp and 497rwtorque....my frame off GTO

MARK99STS
02-03-06, 11:01 AM
Mark...don't let that dude bother you...
It is a peice of engineering art and it works with a obII....GREAT WORK!
I just love it man I wish it were on mine.
Here's 330rwhp and 497rwtorque....my frame off GTO

Thanks for the support Guy. If you are interested, I would be glad to get with you to talk details. PM me.

eldorado1
02-03-06, 12:46 PM
Yeah the car sounds sweet and seems to be pretty quick but to be honest, installing a turbo or supercharger on a car isn't a big deal. The BIG deal is doing it and having the engine and drivetrain stay together. I've done plenty of installs on cars/motorcycles that we didn't care about and knew they would blow fairly soon. So was it anything more than just spending money and time to destroy an engine for fun? IMO, no. My guess is, this project fits into that catagory.

You're funny.

Guess what? A stock northstar will live forever on 7 intercooled psi. The transmission will hold 450hp no problem stock. No, it isn't a big deal mechanically speaking, it's all in the computers that these cars have.

Somehow I think the only thing you've ever tuned are carbs. :rolleyes:
OKCUL8R KTHXBYE!

illumina
02-03-06, 03:30 PM
Yeah the car sounds sweet and seems to be pretty quick but to be honest, installing a turbo or supercharger on a car isn't a big deal. The BIG deal is doing it and having the engine and drivetrain stay together. I've done plenty of installs on cars/motorcycles that we didn't care about and knew they would blow fairly soon. So was it anything more than just spending money and time to destroy an engine for fun? IMO, no. My guess is, this project fits into that catagory.

Why do this Kevin? Why?

Katshot
02-03-06, 03:41 PM
The point is it's only a friggin' video on the internet. Yeah it looks and sounds great but that's all IMO. I'm not saying that it ISN'T as it appears, I'm saying that there's nothing that PROVES it is. Maybe after the stunt McCombe played on everyone just has me freshly aware of how easy it is to fool people on the internet. Okay, maybe I should've said that it "may" fit into that catagory. Don't get your balls in an uproar.

danbuc
02-03-06, 03:41 PM
It's definitely a BIG deal...in fact, I would say that it's probably one of the biggest deals I've ever seen. Mark has succeeded where ALL have failed before hand. As you said Katshot, anyone can put a turbo on a car. NOBODY, has been able to put a turbo in one of these cars, and get it to work properly...if at all. I'd like to see you pull something like this off. Hell, I know I sure as hell couldn't do it.

illumina
02-03-06, 03:49 PM
The point is it's only a friggin' video on the internet. Yeah it looks and sounds great but that's all IMO. I'm not saying that it ISN'T as it appears, I'm saying that there's nothing that PROVES it is. Maybe after the stunt McCombe played on everyone just has me freshly aware of how easy it is to fool people on the internet. Okay, maybe I should've said that it "may" fit into that catagory. Don't get your balls in an uproar.

Kevin, would it surprise you to know that Mark lives about 50 miles from where I live? Would it also surprise you to know that I plan on seeing this car for myself? Hell, maybe I'll line up the '91 Seville just to personally see the ass end of that car of his! If you would like me to take it one step further, I'll post an objective review about the whole thing!!!

But I have a weird feeling that this is for real...And please don't let the Mccombie thing ruin this for you...

AZ1996STS
02-03-06, 03:54 PM
rad.

caddydaddy
02-03-06, 03:57 PM
Guess what? A stock northstar will live forever on 7 intercooled psi. The transmission will hold 450hp no problem stock. No, it isn't a big deal mechanically speaking, it's all in the computers that these cars have.


I am very interested in seeing if this Northstar WILL live forever on 7 psi! No one has ever done it, so who says it will???
I'd be great to see Mark build a turbo kit for the Northstar that doesn't exceed it's mechanical abilities, and be very reliable. But until it's proven reliable, I'm keeping my Northstar stock! :cool2: But more power to ya Mark for putting for the effort! Good luck! :highfive:

eldorado1
02-03-06, 04:25 PM
I am very interested in seeing if this Northstar WILL live forever on 7 psi! No one has ever done it, so who says it will???


www.chrfab.com (http://www.chrfab.com)

They've done it. They say 7psi is about the limit you'd want on a stock northstar, and I'd have to agree with them. They don't do any stock applications, but they do put turbo/supercharged northstar engines in hot rods and dune buggies. Granted, most of the people who can afford the things that chrf sells, can also afford a beefed up bottom end... but he has done some stock boosted ones, but he can tell you more about that than I can.

Katshot
02-03-06, 05:52 PM
I was going to point that out too. There ARE several people that have done turbo Northstars. Why some think it hasn't been done is beyond me. The problem I have is not that "maybe" this guy has a streetable turbo Seville, but that this thread doesn't show me anything other than a video. Videos are posted all the time and are very misleading. I'm sure you guys WANT TO believe this thing is for real but I remain skeptical.
illumina,
Not for nothin' but just because you go and look at this thing, I'm supposed to believe it's anything more than a shade-tree turbo install that'll blow apart in short order? I need a lot more information than has been presented thus far before I'm likely to believe any milestones have been reached.

eldorado1
02-03-06, 06:11 PM
I was going to point that out too. There ARE several people that have done turbo Northstars. Why some think it hasn't been done is beyond me. The problem I have is not that "maybe" this guy has a streetable turbo Seville, but that this thread doesn't show me anything other than a video. Videos are posted all the time and are very misleading. I'm sure you guys WANT TO believe this thing is for real but I remain skeptical.
illumina,
Not for nothin' but just because you go and look at this thing, I'm supposed to believe it's anything more than a shade-tree turbo install that'll blow apart in short order? I need a lot more information than has been presented thus far before I'm likely to believe any milestones have been reached.

http://www.markonemtg.com/marks99sts/id3.html

He's posted probably 50 threads about his buildup. I have to believe that he knows at least a little bit about what he's doing.

ELDOminator
02-03-06, 09:57 PM
And why, oh WHY would someone go to the extra trouble just to make other people whome he doesn't even know, THINK that he has something like this? It'd be a waist of time (and money) to put a non-functional, or very inefficient turbo on any car just to record it and make people "Ohhh and Ahhh" at it. My personal view is that it is most deffinately real, and Mark deserves many great thumbs up ! :2thumbs: I just want to know the cost and the equipment used! I know it'll take a while Mark, but GREAT JOB! And please oh please *begs* let us know!

Eldo

Blackout
02-03-06, 10:02 PM
Hey guys. Well first things first congrats to MARK99STS, it should be interesting to see as to what kinda numbers it puts out once you dyno it. But I just have one thing to ask. I have to go with what caddydaddy said earlier that since nobody has done a turbo Northstar and had it work, how do you know how well the engine will hold up? I mean if the engine works fine then hey thats great. But since everybody is saying, "well this is the first one that has been turbo'd and it should last however long" so since nobody has done this before that means nobody know's how the engine will hold up. What would be nice is like a monthly update letting the other members who are interested in doing know how your car is holding up and if there are any problems that your experiencing. But other then the turbo what else have you done to the engine? Did you change the compression ratio? Did you do forged internals? And one last thing. What made you chose to mount everything up right behind the bumper?

ShadowLvr400
02-03-06, 10:18 PM
That thing is killer. I wish I'd been able to do that to my Eldorado so long ago... *cry* I miss that car. I think I'll have to make a clone of her one day...

illumina
02-03-06, 10:42 PM
illumina,
Not for nothin' but just because you go and look at this thing, I'm supposed to believe it's anything more than a shade-tree turbo install that'll blow apart in short order? I need a lot more information than has been presented thus far before I'm likely to believe any milestones have been reached.

Well, since you have absolutely ZERO confidence in my mechanical knowledge and that you apparently assume that I can't tell a "shade-tree" setup from a professional setup, I'll just bow out and let you go on and argue with Mark and company. Sorry for any hard feelings...:o

eldorado1
02-03-06, 11:28 PM
I have to go with what caddydaddy said earlier that since nobody has done a turbo Northstar and had it work, how do you know how well the engine will hold up?

Go back and read my post, the northstar has been turbo'd more times than you can count. 99.9% of them are in other cars. (fieros, dune buggies, hot rods) Just because it hasn't been done IN A CADILLAC, doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

danbuc
02-04-06, 01:34 AM
Hey guys. Well first things first congrats to MARK99STS, it should be interesting to see as to what kinda numbers it puts out once you dyno it. But I just have one thing to ask. I have to go with what caddydaddy said earlier that since nobody has done a turbo Northstar and had it work, how do you know how well the engine will hold up? I mean if the engine works fine then hey thats great. But since everybody is saying, "well this is the first one that has been turbo'd and it should last however long" so since nobody has done this before that means nobody know's how the engine will hold up. What would be nice is like a monthly update letting the other members who are interested in doing know how your car is holding up and if there are any problems that your experiencing. But other then the turbo what else have you done to the engine? Did you change the compression ratio? Did you do forged internals? And one last thing. What made you chose to mount everything up right behind the bumper?

It's definitely not the first N* to be turbocharged by any means. As mentioned previously, CHRFab has been doing so for years. The differnece here is, that this is with the engine still in the original car, still running the orinigal OEM drivetrain, and electronic hardware.

Katshot
02-04-06, 08:32 AM
Well, since you have absolutely ZERO confidence in my mechanical knowledge and that you apparently assume that I can't tell a "shade-tree" setup from a professional setup, I'll just bow out and let you go on and argue with Mark and company. Sorry for any hard feelings...:o

Don't take it personally. I don't KNOW you, and therefore can't say with any degree of certanty what you know or don't know. You could be a friggin' automotive genious but I don't know that.
The point is the same with respect to Mark and his STS. He "could" be a rocket scientist for all I know but based solely on this thread, I have to call 'em like I see 'em. Hell, you know how many reputable shops around the country, let alone the WORLD have done build-ups like this only to have the project die because of eventual mechanical failures and mounting costs?
As I said before, I "hope" he has luck with his project but at most I must remain cautously optimistic based on the evidence at hand.
I'm sure that will make me a bad guy in the eyes of many here but that's okay, I'm used to it.

STS 310
02-04-06, 06:41 PM
This guy is for ever sh!*#ing on folks posts.

Once in a while he had some decent replies and some objective thinking, but after his reffering to the NORTHSTAR as an "aluminum time bomb", I pretty much stopped reading his posts.

You definately get the "Biggest A$$hole on Caddy forums Award"

Congratulations. You've worked very hard (or not) to earn this accolade.

MARK99STS
02-05-06, 12:34 AM
Go back and read my post, the northstar has been turbo'd more times than you can count. 99.9% of them are in other cars. (fieros, dune buggies, hot rods) Just because it hasn't been done IN A CADILLAC, doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Thanks Eldorado1,

You're right, I haven't done anything new as far as turbo-charging a N* as it has been done many times before. What is new is that it has been done in an OBDII stock STS and as Danbuc has said, it is working with the stock PCM with no codes.

As far as seeing if the engine and tranny will last, well nobody knows that about anybodies car. It all depends on how you drive it and take care of it. My modified STS may go another 50,000 and someone elses stocker may blow tomorrow.

Well I didn't make it to the dyno this weekend due to the winter storm. Will try again as soon as the weather breaks.

For those that were asking, here is a basic list of components:

Traction control relay setup to switch off traction control
62:1 Turbonetics turbo
255 walboro fuel pump
piggyback computer
wideband 02 sensor
custom billet fuel rails with AN fittings and braided stainless lines
16 guage T-304 stainless for all exhaust and pressure piping coated with black silica ceramic
Turbosmart 38mm wastegate
Aeromotive 1000 boost referenced adjustable pressure regulator
Raptor blow off valve
High flow CAT
Intercooler
LS-6 MAF
2 bar MAP sensor
42lb injectors
guages
Plus other miscellaneous items

For anybody that is serious about doing this, we can provide the basic kit, but the routing and placement of components would have to be customized for each make and model unless it was the same under the hood as a 98-99. As you can see from my pics and the video, we had to do some serious "modifications" around the headlights and front bumber assembly and brackets to make it fit. Ideally we would need to have the car brought to us for about 3-4 weeks and could provide a complete package. The tunning alone would take 3-4 days. As far as cost, Jim and I are working on that and hope to have all the figures this week. Unfortunately, this type of undertaking does not come cheap.


A supercharger could also be done and would be cheaper than a turbo as our fuel system and computer setup would work just as well and you wouldn't have to redo the exhaust. It's just that a turbo is much more efficient and with this setup, you'll get a lot more power than any supercharger. You probably would be lucky to add 70 wheel hp with a supercharger.

MARK99STS
02-05-06, 12:40 AM
But other then the turbo what else have you done to the engine? Did you change the compression ratio? Did you do forged internals? And one last thing. What made you chose to mount everything up right behind the bumper?

The engine had the exhaust side of the heads ported and the block was timeserted, other than that, the motor is stock. I have a 3600 stall Yank converter with Corsa exhaust.
We mounted the turbo there because there was physically no other place to put in order to get the intake, pressure piping and exhaust routed to it and back out. We studied it a LONG time.

auroradude
02-05-06, 02:31 AM
Excellent post mark. I'd say you probably spent 10 g's out of pocket. Thats just my guess. It's great that you did it, but its not worth it for practical use IMHO unless it was a 0 mile engine. You have what over 100k? The head gaskets were definately a must though to replace, as im sure old leaky ones couldnt take that kind of stress very long. Im glad you did them, I was curious about that for a while.

Now you say supercharged, obviously it would be a centrifgual unit which as to have oil tubes drilled into the oil pan (ie could break and leave you with a blown engine if it fails). Roots type blowers are the only ones Id want to work with which in this case is not possible for this engine.

I for one if I boosted my car would rip out the trans, engine, put all new engine, bulletproof transmission and forged internals before doing it. I'd have to have a ton of money anyway, so why not go ahead and do all that while the entire car is ripped apart.

Kudos to you Mark, you will be the envy of a lot of people for a very long time.

MARK99STS
02-05-06, 10:37 AM
You have what over 100k? The head gaskets were definately a must though to replace, as im sure old leaky ones couldnt take that kind of stress very long. Im glad you did them, I was curious about that for a while.


The car only has 57,000 miles on it and there was nothing wrong with the head gaskets. I only tore it down to have the heads done and to put in the 3600 stall converter. I timeserted it as an insuranc policy while I had it apart. Made common sense to do it. I have never had any problems with the motor.

haymaker
02-05-06, 12:01 PM
Mark I’m curious about the female head bolt threads in the cylinder block. You having stated that your engine was running fine (without any head gasket issues) before teardown so the question being, did any of the block’s female head bolt threads come out on the head bolts as they were removed during teardown? I realize this question is unrelated to the subject of this thread but it is difficult to gain information on this common problem (stripped female head bolt block threads). Most guys that remove the head bolts are doing so to replace blown head gasket(s). In other words I have noticed that the few people that have posted about removing the head bolts from a N* with good head gaskets have stated that the head bolts came out clean but others like myself that removed the head bolts because of blown head gaskets found female block threads on the head bolts.

I don’t want to turn this into a head gasket thread so you can PM me if you would rather. I can receive them I just can’t seem to reply to them?

BTW great project and very interesting IMHO

STS 310
02-05-06, 01:07 PM
Most guys that remove the head bolts are doing so to replace blown head gasket(s). In other words I have noticed that the few people that have posted about removing the head bolts from a N* with good head gaskets have stated that the head bolts came out clean but others like myself that removed the head bolts because of blown head gaskets found female block threads on the head bolts.

I have read about threads pulling on HG that were blown and not blown.

I know that timeserting a block that is not have blown hg is what most people do to have the ability to remove the heads as often as they want.

Just thought I would add this...

LT5
02-05-06, 02:56 PM
MARK99STS

I have one comment .


AWESOME !

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-05-06, 05:25 PM
My god!

34-70 in like 3 seconds!!!!

I want!!!

davesdeville
02-06-06, 03:21 AM
Kevin,

Use the search function, go to "search by user name," type MARK99STS, use the drop-down box to select "find threads started by user," then select the Northstar forum. There's been more info posted than this one thread... I don't know why you wouldn't check this before you go off first accusing him of first having a fake turbo setup, then second accusing him of having something that will explode in the next thousand miles...

Wait a minute, it's a Northstar. It HAS to explode in the next thousand miles, at least in your head it does.

Katshot
02-06-06, 08:47 AM
Stop being so high and mighty with we, okay? I never said he had a fake turbo setup, and given the rather small amount of info in this thread, I feel my questions were valid. As far as my being so irresponsible as to not go off and research all of Mark's past postings, I think that's asking a little much don't you? Do you go off and research all of someone's past posts before you comment on a current one? Come on, get real here. And as far as my well-known lack of respect for the Northstar engine, I have far more first-hand experience with that engine and it's "issues" than most if not all members here, and that would include YOU Dave. I admit to not having the same level of technical knowledge of the engine as some here but I have more experience from an owner/operator standpoint, and I spent many long hours with Cadillac engineering trying to workout several technical problems on several occassions.
You might notice that I had stopped posting on this thread because although I still don't share the level of confidence in this project that you and some others here do, I've grown tired of trying to point out the obvious to you. But your last post just caught me in the wrong friggin' mood for your BS.
You can believe what you want but you have no training, or experience to back it up beyond the usual Cadillac fan/owner. Have fun living in your rosey little world, but leave the personal barbs out of the threads. It only makes you look like an immature kid.

1fastSTS
02-06-06, 01:51 PM
this was all started by you katshot, and your negativity.
mark did not post here to have this post become a war. Mark showed us that he turbocharged a N* STS . its an excellent setup. and to fit what he has with such minimal room is great! job well done! I love my Nstar. Its not the car...its the mechanic. I have small modifications ive doen on my own, from 36,000 miles to 72,000 miles on my 99 as a daily driver, ive had ZERO mechanical problems! its all about maintenance...I used to have a 98 buick regal GS. where as members would have problems with them, i bought the GS with 38,000 miles, and it lived to 103,000 miles going into the mid 12's on street tires AS a DAILY DRIVER until a drunk driver smashed into me and totalled it. its all about how you take care of the car and if u know what the hell your doing....and obviously mark does!
id love to have a setup like this on my STS. the transmission would be an issue. i wouldnt want my car to be a money pit. it is addicting.

4t80e ...does it have 4340 input shaft, high energy clutches , LSD, stronger outputshafts as my 4t65e-hd from my GS does...im not sure whats available in parts for this tranny...but seems like wed sure as hell need them.

mark do you have any knock retard issues ? overheating? whats the coolant temp now with the intercooler?
hey dont put using alcohol injection out of the picture ;)

cart69
02-06-06, 02:15 PM
yea i am curious to know a price for this setup, and how the outcome could benefit from chrfab's cam? different pistons and such, lowering the compression? what about a thicker headgasket to lower compression with stock internals??? maybe a copper headgasket? i have very seriously been wanting to do a mean n* motor, either for my 96 sts or for my 91 z28 convertable that i want to put a n* in.

Cadillacboy
02-06-06, 04:39 PM
Thank you , I think I am downloading a great stuff thanks

illumina
02-07-06, 12:04 AM
Kevin,

Use the search function, go to "search by user name," type MARK99STS, use the drop-down box to select "find threads started by user," then select the Northstar forum. There's been more info posted than this one thread... I don't know why you wouldn't check this before you go off first accusing him of first having a fake turbo setup, then second accusing him of having something that will explode in the next thousand miles...

Wait a minute, it's a Northstar. It HAS to explode in the next thousand miles, at least in your head it does.

Don't worry Dave, I'm in the same I-know-nothing posititon as you are...But that goes back a ways...

weister42
02-07-06, 12:15 AM
Sweet turbo man, I wish I have one of those:bouncy:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-07-06, 01:08 AM
That video is like porno for me...

almost like anyways...... :sneaky:

WoodShoe
02-07-06, 09:45 AM
Good Job on the setup. Sounds great. What im curious about, is that Traction control (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64379&page=4#) relay setup to you have. I assume your model year has the same problems as mine. As when you dissable traction it will start in 2nd gear?

MARK99STS
02-07-06, 10:18 AM
Good Job on the setup. Sounds great. What im curious about, is that Traction control (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64379&page=4#) relay setup to you have. I assume your model year has the same problems as mine. As when you dissable traction it will start in 2nd gear?

That is correct. We figured a way around the traction control so we can disable it at will to have it start in first gear.

Guy,mn.usa
02-07-06, 11:20 AM
Maybe just unplug the front wheels speed sensors?

MARK99STS
02-07-06, 04:12 PM
Maybe just unplug the front wheels speed sensors?

Nope, can't do that. It throws a code and defaults to 2nd gear start. We tried a lot of things to make it work.

MrEr1c
02-07-06, 09:58 PM
That is correct. We figured a way around the traction control so we can disable it at will to have it start in first gear.

...so what is thay way? im sure MANY people want to know this.

eldorado1
02-07-06, 10:09 PM
...so what is thay way? im sure MANY people want to know this.

Connect all 4 sensor inputs to 1 wheel sensor.

MARK99STS
02-07-06, 10:32 PM
...so what is thay way? im sure MANY people want to know this.
Actually we put a 1000 ohm resistor in each wheel sensor thru a relay set up so all 4 wheels see exactly the same thing.

turbojimmy
02-07-06, 10:49 PM
just pray to god you dont smash into anything with half of ur bumper support missing id be really careful

I was thinking the same thing. Most of the 'real' bumper is gone - and on the left side too (point of an 'offset' collision). Things will get f'd up in a hurry.

Nice craftsmanship otherwise, though. What's it do in the 1/4?

Jim

CadillacSTS42005
02-07-06, 11:27 PM
Actually we put a 1000 ohm resistor in each wheel sensor thru a relay set up so all 4 wheels see exactly the same thing.

ok NOW you have me interested please please please tell me how you did this more in depth. i wanna do this so i can attempt something. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

Guy,mn.usa
02-08-06, 08:37 AM
Mark, mine are unplugged in the front. I'm getting a wheel sensor code, but it takes off in first no problem and gets second gear rubber going into second. Fast car can imagine the power the turbo adds must be a blast!

MARK99STS
02-08-06, 10:02 AM
ok NOW you have me interested please please please tell me how you did this more in depth. i wanna do this so i can attempt something. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

We initially just unplugged the sensor at each wheel and stuck the resistor in each plug. You can leave it that way but it is hard to switch back and forth. A freind of Jims' who understands wiring tied into the sensor wires comming out of the ABS unit and set up a relay system with a switch to toggle back and forth. Unfortunately I can't give you the exact setup on that because I wasn't around when he did it.

CadillacSTS42005
02-08-06, 11:26 PM
can you find out some more intel about this please i understand your immensly busy with tweaking your turbo but id really like to have this set up on my 97 ETC

MARK99STS
02-09-06, 08:58 AM
Somebody sent me a PM regarding tunning and the PCM. I accidently deleted it before responding, so if you see this please resend your PM.

Thanks
Mark

AlBundy
02-09-06, 09:05 PM
Give Katshot a break. He is entitled to his opinion. BTW Mark I enjoy reading about your project and hope you will continue to inform us about it. I've learned alot from it.

turbojimmy
02-10-06, 06:16 AM
Give Katshot a break. He is entitled to his opinion.

I AM!! That was my subtle, perhaps too much so, of saying I agree with him. I never got into any of the debates but like I said, there's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism.

Jim

AlBundy
02-10-06, 01:50 PM
I AM!! That was my subtle, perhaps too much so, of saying I agree with him. I never got into any of the debates but like I said, there's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism.

Jim

I concur.http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

N0DIH
02-11-06, 03:22 PM
Mark, after seeing your install and a friend of mine who just put a centrifigal blower (professionally installed last week) on his 12.8 second (w/o the blower, 210/218 cam, behive springs, headers, and 4.10's, 6sp) LS1 2001 Z28 and I feel your install and work on it is every bit as good, if not better and cleaner than his install. That SC looked to be a real pain to install in a Z28.

Congrats dude, you did a great job!

Are you running stock exhaust still or did you axe the mufflers/resonators?

addison_ii
02-11-06, 03:55 PM
Mark99STS, great job and the video made me shed some tears. :D A big :thumbsup: from me.

MARK99STS
02-11-06, 05:09 PM
Are you running stock exhaust still or did you axe the mufflers/resonators?

I'm running Corsa exhaust.

Dooman
02-14-06, 12:00 PM
So is it still running? Inquiring minds.........

MARK99STS
02-14-06, 12:43 PM
So is it still running? Inquiring minds.........


Absolutely!!

I just had it detailed as it is going to be in the AUTO-RAMA car show this weekend under my tunners business name along with a few others he has done. I have over 1200 miles on it now. Unfortunately a lot of those are hard miles so I plan on taking it easy on it for a while.

elwesso
02-14-06, 02:10 PM
Hey mark. Been a long time member on this forum, but I have not seen anything like this before! I really appreciate your enthusiasm for this project, and relaly thinking outside of the box... I mean, who in their right mind would take a nice 99 STS and turbo charge it.. I love it..... You put the naysayers to rest! You go out, do your thing, and build the car. dont know how much you posted about this before, but from what I can tell there wasnt much jawing about "oh we're building this, it will be ready sometime" like the northstar supercharger was, nad this is a more complex setup.....

BTW guys, i would really appreciate it if you guys would keep the information on the board.. so it can benefit everyone later.. mark, if you wouldnt mind, could you post any PMs back on the forum?

What piggyback are you using...? Like an S-AFC or E-manage...? There goes my import fanboyism going again!!!

Anyway, im glad you did it right, and timeserted before you started boosting... I think youll find that the transmission is teh weak link in this, but i am glad you decided to add a trans cooler, great move.....!!!! Your right, the biggest killer of tranny's is heat... Are you running redline or mobil 1 ATF?? On my infiniti forum, some guy installed a guage on his trans cooler and his trans fluid temps went down consistently 10F by switching to M1...

Anyway, great job, and keep boosting hard!!!! I really respect you, and if your ever interested in coming out to Indiana to a few of our local meets, you are welcome!!! Love to have you come out!

- Wes

elwesso
02-14-06, 02:13 PM
Also wanted to add, if you decide to go for more power, id suggest getting a high tech rebuild done.....
http://www.importperformancetrans.com/gmautofwd.shtml

I have a trans rebuilt for my Q similar to that (but they are superior to what I have) and they do a great job.. You already got your high stlal, so your taken care of in that regard......

fubar569
02-14-06, 05:45 PM
We initially just unplugged the sensor at each wheel and stuck the resistor in each plug. You can leave it that way but it is hard to switch back and forth. A freind of Jims' who understands wiring tied into the sensor wires comming out of the ABS unit and set up a relay system with a switch to toggle back and forth. Unfortunately I can't give you the exact setup on that because I wasn't around when he did it.

I am definitely interested in hearing a little more about how this works. i'd like to defeat the traction control in my deville but i know when i hit the off switch the the glove box it seems to merely delay the onset a little bit and is notmeant as a permanent off switch. do the resistors really work and does it affect any other systems or the gauges?

I'd love to have a slick relay setup such as yours. I'm thinking with TC off, the line pressure mod and a set of stickies these things should take off like a rocket!

Oh, btw....KICK ASS CAR anda brilliant job on the install!

DaveSmed
02-15-06, 04:08 PM
Damn, NICE idea with the resistors in all four wheels. I'm having one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments now.

As far as the relays go, just wiring them so pin 30 goes to one of the leads for the wheel speed sensor at the EBTM, 87A to the WSS (installing it inline basically) and pin 87 has the resistor between it and the other undisturbed lead for the WSS. Repeat x4 for all four wheels. Use the coil leads to control the bypass. Slick idea.

Oh and Mark, let me know if that sounds somewhat like what the guy who did yours did.

MARK99STS
02-15-06, 04:55 PM
Damn, NICE idea with the resistors in all four wheels. I'm having one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments now.

As far as the relays go, just wiring them so pin 30 goes to one of the leads for the wheel speed sensor at the EBTM, 87A to the WSS (installing it inline basically) and pin 87 has the resistor between it and the other undisturbed lead for the WSS. Repeat x4 for all four wheels. Use the coil leads to control the bypass. Slick idea.

Oh and Mark, let me know if that sounds somewhat like what the guy who did yours did.


Yeah,
I would say that is what he did and just put a switch to be able to toggle back and forth between stock and modified.

danbuc
02-15-06, 07:40 PM
I was gonna run my car at the track last friday with the resistors in there, since I couldn't get my relay setup to work, or had time to try and fix it. It didn't take me long to realize how dumb an idea it was to actually drive with them in there though, until I got out on the road, and tried to change lanes, not realizing that the speed sensitive steering doesn't work without the wheel speed sensors. I alsmost flew into the guy in the next lane over, because it turned the wheel so hard. It was like steering my old '66 Mustang....at 50mph, you could make a turn, just by looking at the steering wheel a certain way, that how touchy it was. Needless to say, I drove right back to my apartment and pull them all out, and ran at the track with Traction Control still enabled.....and it sucked as to be expected.

GreenMachine
02-15-06, 07:58 PM
I must say most fans of the tuner scene would see your car and laugh...then you would nicely, while adjusting your fine leather seat, watch them go from your passenger mirror to your rearview mirror to over the horizon :) Those silly guys who think stickers give horsepower.

My philopshy is no replacement for displacement. The Northstar isn't a big V8 but it isn't a small engine either. This all goes back to one thing, you can put a blower on a inline 4 and play around with V8's, you can put a blower on a V8 and play around with expensive imports. Your doing this to an transverse mounted V8, that just adds to the "shock and awe" factor.

I'd love to hear about what kind of numbers you pull, but whats more important than numbers to me is white knuckle driving and just thrill factor of that thing pushing you into your seat :) In my opinion the only way to go when tuning a car is keeping all the mods a secret and makeing it look stock, but when throttled up it should be music to a car crazy guys ears :)

My dream car would be an old 30's or 40's Cadillac, choped into a hot/street rod with a Supercharged Northstar, either supercharge by me or the new supercharged crate engine. I'm more into the off the line racing and from what I have read and understand Superchargers are best for off the line while turbos are better for acceleration when your moving.

I have one suggestion, I think it would be pretty neat to place one of the V-Series emblems on it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/BigEd2006/98deville/vseries.jpg
That would be a good conversation starter if you ever pulled up next to CTS/STS/XLR -V. Heck anyone who knows cadillac would ask about why thats on it, then you can either tell them...or show them.

Thanks for all the information you given out so far and the video. Will look forward to future updates.

davesdeville
02-16-06, 12:56 AM
I'm more into the off the line racing and from what I have read and understand Superchargers are best for off the line while turbos are better for acceleration when your moving.

Turbos need time to spool (build boost.) If it's a "small" turbo (for that engine) it'll spool at a low rpm, if it's a "big" turbo it'll take awhile to spool but when it does it will have plenty of airflow. So if you have a real small turbo you can build boost by running the RPMs up with the brakes applied. If you have a big turbo you can do the same thing with a high stall torque convertor. And a transbrake will let you build boost without spinning the tires. :thumbsup:

MARK99STS
02-16-06, 09:31 AM
I was gonna run my car at the track last friday with the resistors in there, since I couldn't get my relay setup to work, or had time to try and fix it. It didn't take me long to realize how dumb an idea it was to actually drive with them in there though, until I got out on the road, and tried to change lanes, not realizing that the speed sensitive steering doesn't work without the wheel speed sensors. I alsmost flew into the guy in the next lane over, because it turned the wheel so hard. It was like steering my old '66 Mustang....at 50mph, you could make a turn, just by looking at the steering wheel a certain way, that how touchy it was. Needless to say, I drove right back to my apartment and pull them all out, and ran at the track with Traction Control still enabled.....and it sucked as to be expected.

That is interesting that you mention this as I have never experienced any change in steering. The only thing that happens is the "service stability system" comes on when I go around a sharp turn or an on ramp to the freeway. I didn't think the steereing had anything to do with the wheel sensors. Were the sensors completely unplugged and the resistor stuck in the female side of the plug? Did you get any other codes? If one of the resistors comes out, it will throw a traction control/ABS code. I taped mine in initially, before I got the relay setup and everything worked fine.

eldorado1
02-16-06, 10:05 AM
I'm telling ya... 1 wheel sensor to the 4 inputs........

fubar569
02-16-06, 12:04 PM
using which wheel? or since it's making all 4 see the same thing would it even matter...since according to the computer all 4 tires are spinning at exactly the same rate...

for some reason, common sense says side with this argument...1 to 4 inputs...

though the relay system would be the ultimate

OffThaHorseCEO
02-16-06, 02:53 PM
o man, can you imagine this set up in a full size deville, id bust an nut!

not only that id be toying with all the mustangs here in johnston county.

the deville bumpers have a "grille" built into them so itd be better for breathing too

danbuc
02-16-06, 03:21 PM
That is interesting that you mention this as I have never experienced any change in steering. The only thing that happens is the "service stability system" comes on when I go around a sharp turn or an on ramp to the freeway. I didn't think the steereing had anything to do with the wheel sensors. Were the sensors completely unplugged and the resistor stuck in the female side of the plug? Did you get any other codes? If one of the resistors comes out, it will throw a traction control/ABS code. I taped mine in initially, before I got the relay setup and everything worked fine.


Well, since I was short on time, and it was last minute, I just stuck one resistor in each plug end. No codes were thrown, but the car drove kinda funny. The steering was definitely not compensating for speed. As soon as I removed them, and plugged the sensors back in, it went right back to normal.

mtflight
02-16-06, 03:29 PM
o man, can you imagine this set up in a full size deville, id bust an nut!

not only that id be toying with all the mustangs here in johnston county.

the deville bumpers have a "grille" built into them so itd be better for breathing too

There's a lot more room in the Deville.

danbuc
02-16-06, 03:31 PM
That is interesting that you mention this as I have never experienced any change in steering. The only thing that happens is the "service stability system" comes on when I go around a sharp turn or an on ramp to the freeway. I didn't think the steereing had anything to do with the wheel sensors. Were the sensors completely unplugged and the resistor stuck in the female side of the plug? Did you get any other codes? If one of the resistors comes out, it will throw a traction control/ABS code. I taped mine in initially, before I got the relay setup and everything worked fine.

Well, since I was short on time, and it was last minute, I just stuck one resistor in each plug end. No codes were thrown, but the car drove kinda funny. The steering was definitely not compensating for speed. As soon as I removed them, and plugged the sensors back in, it went right back to normal.

OffThaHorseCEO
02-16-06, 03:36 PM
meaning?

would that be better or does that just mean it could be routed somewhere else besides the front bumper?

mtflight
02-16-06, 03:37 PM
meaning?

would that be better or does that just mean it could be routed somewhere else besides the front bumper?

Meaning it may be easier--but who knows until you get knee deep in the project.

OffThaHorseCEO
02-16-06, 03:38 PM
Meaning it may be easier--but who knows until you get knee deep in the project.
tru

did mark ever give a top speed?

eldorado1
02-16-06, 07:05 PM
What meaning would a top speed give?

I doubt he has the aerodynamics, tires, or a safe place to try.

STS al UK
02-16-06, 09:57 PM
TOP SPEED.... are you completly mad??? this car is a square box, not a funny car and america frowns on anything over 65 does'nt it???.
I think this guy deservrs a meadal for getting to 65 faster than anyone else... I'd have one if I had the spare cash in hand :thumbsup:

GreenMachine
02-16-06, 10:49 PM
TOP SPEED.... are you completly mad??? this car is a square box, not a funny car and america frowns on anything over 65 does'nt it???.
I think this guy deservrs a meadal for getting to 65 faster than anyone else... I'd have one if I had the spare cash in hand :thumbsup:

well some my frown on it but here in New York the state speed limit is indeed 65 on the highways...but you'll get passed even when doing 70. No problem doing 75-80...that is unless its the end of the month and troopers are trying to make a quota :)

I think its electronically governed to 155mph....unless you tamper with those settings :) If he lived out west where there are plenty of striat and open highways it would be nice to just open up, on my trip to Colorado I saw some Devilles going at least 90-100mph on the open interstate which was marked for 80mph speed limit and they were being passed by the Corvettes I saw, 155 is still REALLY fast considering its a FWD luxury sedan. I'm more into acceleration rather than top speed, to me thats what makes a car fast :)

lamistar
02-18-06, 02:57 PM
Nice job- I'm not really a turbo fan, but I was really impressed by the engineering that went into this, especially since there isn't a huge market yet for Northstar performance products. I own a 93 Eldo that with some minor mods has broken the 15 second barrier in the 1/4 mile, all naturally aspirated, stock tires and OEM chip. It's a daily driver and you should see the face on some of these young, punk Mustang drivers who try to stage and take me off the line- it must feel like a bad nightmare to these guys- it's hilarious!:tisk: For my next phase, I would like to use a performance chip and/or supercharger to take this project to the next level(NO NITROUS!). I too don't really care about top speed- just 1/4 mile times. What's the total cost of using your turbo kit for my application? I assume that this cost will include the chip/PCM upgrade if required. Please advise.

Thanks,

ELMO

MJRoss
02-19-06, 12:59 AM
What is the cost/durability of the turbo system?

auroradude
02-19-06, 01:22 AM
like $12,000 guys. I'd buy a mustang cobra and put a supercharger into that thing for 5k before I'd have a NS blown. It's just too much work. Plus, Marks car needs to be run for another 30 or 40,000 miles and if it holds up just as well, that would be a good test. If the trans gets rebuilt every other oil change that is a problem.

fubar569
02-19-06, 01:58 AM
maybe he's not a cobra kind of guy...

not to mention, it's on (mostly) stock electronics. considering how big of a bastard these N* PCM's are...to not even get a glimmer of a SES light is phenominal.

and i hope to god you mean an 03/04 cobra, which BTW is all one piece manley rotating assembly and an IRON block from the factory...why? because the stock aluminum 4.6L COULDN'T HANDLE THE ABUSE! the internals were trash and they were splitting block left and right. it took a total redo of the motor to make it work. True, we don't know how long this motor will last, but you know what? i hear of a lot of unhappy cobra owners after blower swaps because they got too greedy...even the cobra's forged setup is not invincible. And drivetrain? my friend with a 10th anniv 03 has already twapped 1 T-56 under just normal driving conditions...all bets are off under forced induction. besides, if you have 12k to blow on a turbo kit should they catch on, you have the cash to spend to fortify the motor to handle it...same with the 03/04 cobra owners. they know what they're getting into, same with anyone getting into a project like that. at least this one is unique and appears totally stock to the untrained eye...of course till he hits the gas...

my hats off to mark99sts for a very well constructed and thought through machine.

SupaStealth
02-19-06, 08:11 AM
well, I'll be another man to congradulate you on the great work, I've been looking to do this on my Aurora for the past year and a half but unfortunately I'm a poor college student(Mechanical Engineering Major) I've just had the problem trying to match a turbo to the engine since i cant find ANY airflow maps of this engine. What was the exact model turbo you're using, and do you experience much lag? Although my car being at 40k more miles than it was a year and a half ago it probably wouldn't be a good idea to turbo it anymore at 128k miles.

turbojimmy
02-19-06, 02:29 PM
like $12,000 guys. I'd buy a mustang cobra and put a supercharger into that thing for 5k before I'd have a NS blown. It's just too much work. Plus, Marks car needs to be run for another 30 or 40,000 miles and if it holds up just as well, that would be a good test. If the trans gets rebuilt every other oil change that is a problem.

Different strokes for different folks. Everyone expects a Cobra to be fast. No one expects to get blown away by a Seville. It's an excellent sleeper.

The reality is that it's not going to last 30 or 40,000 miles with a turbo on it. I'm sure Mark knows that - these are the sacrifices you make when you start messing with what the factory made. Even though it's a very well engineered setup, the more you squeeze out of the engine the more stress you put on drivetrain parts and the more stuff breaks. It's just a matter of time. The better it seems to work, the more you try to squeeze out of it until it breaks.

Jim

OffThaHorseCEO
02-21-06, 01:16 PM
i think the 12 is worth it, i even asked a few guys around and they said yea itd be worth it to them, for one, its a sleeper, noone expects to have their ass handed to them by a seville or a cadillac for that matter. also the uniqueness factor of it makes it worth the 12k. youd be one of maybe a handful in the nation to drive around a turbo northstar in a cadillac with mainly stock components (not the fully redone engines)

too many people decide to soup up mustangs, so in my opinion its not an overly huge deal, but when i hear "turbocharged cadillac sts" i wanna know more

eldorado1
02-21-06, 02:35 PM
Hey Mark, question for you -

Didn't you have a 3000rpm stall converter before the turbo install??? How streetable was it? How did it act from a stoplight with "regular" acceleration?

MARK99STS
02-23-06, 01:17 PM
Hey Mark, question for you -

Didn't you have a 3000rpm stall converter before the turbo install??? How streetable was it? How did it act from a stoplight with "regular" acceleration?

Yes, I had the 3600 stall in before the turbo. Unless you really knew what was going on with cars and converters, you would never know it had a higher stall converter in it. I have always used "the wife" test on all my mods. I would make a change and let her drive it to see if she noticed any difference. She was totally clueless that there was a different converter in the car. Yes the mileage got a little worse, and it will produce more heat(installed tranny cooler),but otherwise it is no difference as far as streetable.

Unfortunately the turbo killed the wife test for me.

MARK99STS
02-23-06, 01:21 PM
Different strokes for different folks. Everyone expects a Cobra to be fast. No one expects to get blown away by a Seville. It's an excellent sleeper.

The reality is that it's not going to last 30 or 40,000 miles with a turbo on it. I'm sure Mark knows that - these are the sacrifices you make when you start messing with what the factory made. Even though it's a very well engineered setup, the more you squeeze out of the engine the more stress you put on drivetrain parts and the more stuff breaks. It's just a matter of time. The better it seems to work, the more you try to squeeze out of it until it breaks.

Jim

Exactly!!

I've had the sports cars that everybody builds or expects to be built, but I wanted something unique that would also have a lot of power. A luxury turbo. Who says you can't have your cake and eat it to!

eldorado1
02-23-06, 02:50 PM
Yes, I had the 3600 stall in before the turbo. Unless you really knew what was going on with cars and converters, you would never know it had a higher stall converter in it. I have always used "the wife" test on all my mods. I would make a change and let her drive it to see if she noticed any difference. She was totally clueless that there was a different converter in the car. Yes the mileage got a little worse, and it will produce more heat(installed tranny cooler),but otherwise it is no difference as far as streetable.

Unfortunately the turbo killed the wife test for me.

hehehe... yeah, that would do it. Thanks for your input! So in your opinion, did the higher stall make up for any of the low end torque the northstar powered caddies need? In otherwords, do you have more "getupandgo" from a stop?

Oh, and before I forget, you mentioned porting your heads and not noticing an increase in power? But you just had the exhausts ported, right? Do you have the exhaust manifolds ported while they were out? "Rob" was saying that's a major restriction in the exhaust system.

MARK99STS
02-23-06, 04:12 PM
hehehe... yeah, that would do it. Thanks for your input! So in your opinion, did the higher stall make up for any of the low end torque the northstar powered caddies need? In otherwords, do you have more "getupandgo" from a stop?

Oh, and before I forget, you mentioned porting your heads and not noticing an increase in power? But you just had the exhausts ported, right? Do you have the exhaust manifolds ported while they were out? "Rob" was saying that's a major restriction in the exhaust system.


Yes, the car had a lot more "getupandgo" with the higher stall converter as it put it right in the power band and as you said, that is where these cars are lacking.

I did have only the exhaust side of the heads ported per "Rob", as the intake side would hurt the combustion swirl. That is for N/A. But since I turboed the car I could have had both intake and exhaust ported. I had the heads done before I decided to turbo it.
Actually the guy who did the heads looked at the manifolds and said that there wasn't much to gain there as mine looked pretty good, so I left them alone. I think the major restriction is the crossover/down pipe from the front bank.

eldorado1
02-23-06, 04:58 PM
Here's some pics I've found showing how shrouded the manifolds are. I've pulled mine before, but never really looked at them this close. You can see the amount of material you can remove (I highlighted it in yellow, everything inside the circle isn't there in the other)

http://i1.tinypic.com/ofx1ep.jpg

Original pic:
http://i1.tinypic.com/ofx114.jpg

Now that's gotta be worth some power!

MrEr1c
07-14-06, 10:21 PM
hey, it has been quite a while since i have heard anything on your turbo N* Mark. How is everything running? Take it to the track yet? Dyno?

I am very interested in the somewhat of an outcome so far.

1fastSTS
07-14-06, 10:58 PM
eldorado are those the exhaust manifolds off a stock N* engine?
i ported my manifolds off my 98 Buick Regal GS....and i got great gains from that. such as reduction in Knock Retard which allowed me to push boost without risk of detonation. Plus increase in HP dyno proven. not much, but hey every little helps.

Im sure the N* will see small gain from that, the biggest loss is that damn crossover, but ya cant do anything about it, thanks to Gm for positioning it between the engine and tranny.

unruley247
07-15-06, 06:44 AM
That turbo on a sts is great only one? how much to do my deville

MARK99STS
07-17-06, 07:57 AM
hey, it has been quite a while since i have heard anything on your turbo N* Mark. How is everything running? Take it to the track yet? Dyno?

I am very interested in the somewhat of an outcome so far.


The car is running fine, but I am at a standstill until I get my manual transmission controller. The guy is working on it, but it takes time. The car won't shift until way in the red at WOT so I am not going to the track again until I have that. I went to the dyno and pulled 383hp at the wheels and 417 ft. lbs torque. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.

silver duke
07-17-06, 01:22 PM
thats just plain awesome. makes me want to tear into my 93 sts.

eldorado1
07-17-06, 11:17 PM
The car is running fine, but I am at a standstill until I get my manual transmission controller. The guy is working on it, but it takes time.

I can have one tested and ready for you in 2 weeks. Complete with gear display and pressure control. Just recently I got back into the tranny controller business. $200 and it's yours... LMK...

mtflight
07-18-06, 09:23 AM
I can have one tested and ready for you in 2 weeks. Complete with gear display and pressure control. Just recently I got back into the tranny controller business. $200 and it's yours... LMK...

eldorado1, is there a way to get the gear display from the current 4t80E? That would be a cool gadget that I'd be interested in if it wasn't too pricey.

eldorado1
07-18-06, 11:19 AM
eldorado1, is there a way to get the gear display from the current 4t80E? That would be a cool gadget that I'd be interested in if it wasn't too pricey.

Yeah, you could probably do it pretty simply with a bcd to 7 segment converter, if you tied into the A and B shift solenoid lines... Or is this something you want me to build? :hmm:

mtflight
07-18-06, 12:51 PM
Yeah, you could probably do it pretty simply with a bcd to 7 segment converter, if you tied into the A and B shift solenoid lines... Or is this something you want me to build? :hmm:

Well, I've heard it more than once that it would be cool to have an indicator as to what gear the auto tranny is on. It could advertise "potential fuel savings" because by knowing when u shift to overdrive, you save on gas, etc....

It would just be a nifty thing to have if it's small and tidy looking.

Would be awesome to have it light up the Gear indicators on the dash (1, 2, 3, D), but that's probably not possible.

I'd be interested to hear how much u think something like that could cost if you were to make it assuming it is not that big of a deal and too much time for you to invest (say it's fun I dunno). I can't pay for R&D, that's for sure. If it's like $70 and easy to install someone else may be interested--the marketing aspect I dunno about.

eldorado1
07-18-06, 03:18 PM
$50 would make it worth my while... I could build you something pretty simple on a prototype board about the size of a credit card... Basically, whatever gear it's currently in, it will show on a 1" LED display (the numbers 1-4). Nothing fancy, you'd have to build or buy your own box for it... You'd need to find an ignition (+12V) source, ground, and tap into the A and B solenoid wires. I can get you the color codes for those given the year and model. Let me know... It'd probably take a week or two to get the parts, build and test it.

mtflight
07-18-06, 03:42 PM
$50 would make it worth my while... I could build you something pretty simple on a prototype board about the size of a credit card... Basically, whatever gear it's currently in, it will show on a 1" LED display (the numbers 1-4). Nothing fancy, you'd have to build or buy your own box for it... You'd need to find an ignition (+12V) source, ground, and tap into the A and B solenoid wires. I can get you the color codes for those given the year and model. Let me know... It'd probably take a week or two to get the parts, build and test it.

Cool! I'd need to research the box for it. What did you use on your ride? I saw a pic of it with the little "8" LED. Ahhh but you mean the box to house the electronics that feed the LED, right?

I'll keep this in mind and will get to it. $50 is not a lot but there are many projects on hold for my car currently. That's awesome--I'm interested.

eldorado1
07-18-06, 04:06 PM
yep!

WinnipegCadillac
07-26-06, 02:37 PM
Interesting reading...and nice job Mark. People who talk about hot rodding a luxury car, ever consider a Lincoln Mark VII LSC? At the risk of starting a war over Cadillac vs Lincoln, I always liked the Mark VII, and the later (88 and up) models had the mustang HO 5.0. Nice motor, easy to mod. Don't think anyone would expect anything from someone in that car, either, and it had all the luxury features you could ask for. I'd still take the turbo STS, but the wallet would suggest that I take the regular STS, and hot rod the Mark VII. Just easier, and I am lazy.

N0DIH
07-26-06, 02:39 PM
I am a fan of V8 Rear Drive, and the VII fits that well. Make it fun! Drop in a 500 Cad V8 into the Mark VII. Who could complain then?

davesdeville
07-27-06, 01:06 AM
A Cad500 would fit in a Mark VII without too much trouble... but the things weigh so much you may as well do a 500 77-84 Deville or 77-96 Fleetwood/Brougham. I like the Mark VII but went with a Mark VIII.

N0DIH
07-27-06, 11:49 AM
Ahh, but the fun of smoking a Mustang or 2, and then popping the hood....

CadillacSTS42005
07-28-06, 12:08 AM
you guys seriously though where has mark been????

MARK99STS
07-28-06, 09:13 AM
you guys seriously though where has mark been????

I'm here. I have been EXTREMELY busy with work and personal issues so the car has been sidelined for now. It is running fine, but I am working on a manual shift controller to force shifts earlier as now it is shifting way into the red at WOT. I need to have this before I can go to the track. Hopefully I will be able to get back on it in a couple of weeks.

I will keep everybody posted.

Mark

CadillacSTS42005
07-28-06, 03:19 PM
congrats man hope things get better!

Raze
08-05-06, 09:28 AM
I talked to Mark a few weeks back to get some hindsight on the project as my ETC will begin its rework in a year or so (saving for it now). I was impressed by his manual shift controller to essentially turn the regular auto box into an optional autostick to help keep the power up. I'm not a huge autostick fan but it's a helluva lot better than the stock shiftpoints.

Can't wait to see your new dyno numbers too with the boost bump you've got planned, keep us posted!

CaddyCrisis
08-05-06, 12:12 PM
Anyone ever heard of putting the turbo near the back of the car where the muffler would be. I was watching a show and they had a couple cars where thats where the turbos were. It looked pretty good and they said it'll stay a lot cooler there than in the engine compartment.

Shaggy
08-05-06, 02:30 PM
Anyone ever heard of putting the turbo near the back of the car where the muffler would be. I was watching a show and they had a couple cars where thats where the turbos were. It looked pretty good and they said it'll stay a lot cooler there than in the engine compartment.

I was wondering about this, too. What about air intake, wouldn't water be a problem?

CaddyCrisis
08-05-06, 02:42 PM
I was wondering about this, too. What about air intake, wouldn't water be a problem?

I know nothing about turbos so if im wrong just tell me but im assuming that the water your talking about is for cooling it down. Maybe with the turbo not in the engine compartment then you won't need anything to cool it down cuz its not crammed into the engine bay with the heat from everything else. But since I don't know anything about turbos I might be wrong.

eldorado1
08-05-06, 05:29 PM
The problem with a turbo where the muffler is is lag.

To get rid of the lag, you have to use an unnecessarily small turbo. This means you won't be gaining as much horsepower as you could be.

Water cooling just means you can shut off the car when you're done. Without water cooling you need to idle your car for a few minutes so your turbo doesn't coke when you shut the car off.

Raze
08-06-06, 03:58 PM
Placement of the turbos in the muffler location (known as a remote mount turbo setup, Squires Turbo Systems has ready made kits for a number of cars) is what I am planning on doing since there is so little room up front and Mark ran into the problem and had to cut/remove part of the bumper frame. He also ended up having to run a scavange pump for the oil return because as you see in the video it is mounted very low relative to the pan. Both myself and Mark (in hindsight) agreed that running a remote mount will allow greater room and flexability for the headers. Mark ended up with a complex custom job to fit under the hood and reach the turbo. Also, I believe he's using the stock oil pan and if you've ever looked at the front header, it squishes down to less than an inch tall and 2 inches wide which doesn't allow much exit area, and then it bends under the transmission case and runs up underneath the oilpan to the back bank header and collector. I'm conviced a remote mount with enlarged front header and potentially a custom oil pan will allow greater flexability. Mark's larger crossover also resulted in him having to remove his eibach lowering springs and put taller tires on to get the clearance he needed for it.

Eldorado1 is correct, there will be greater turbo lag but realistically this car already has such a high RPM power band that I don't think you'll notice either way, another benefit of longer plumbing is that the large volume of the piping also acts as an intercooler albeit a poor one. Alternativley switching to a twin turbo setup would help dramatically, however I don't know if there will be enough clearance to run all the plumbing but we'll see!

turbojimmy
08-06-06, 05:39 PM
The problem with a turbo where the muffler is is lag.

That and where do you get clean, cool air from? The air cleaner would have to be back there somewhere.

Another advantage of a liquid cooled turbo is extended bearing life, but it wouldn't be an option with a 'remote' mounted turbo (well it would be, but it would be unneccesarily complex). They've just started making water cooled ball-bearing turbos for the GNs. They spool so much faster you don't need a crazy-high stall converter to spool a relatively large turbo.

Jim

CaddyCrisis
08-06-06, 11:34 PM
Would it be cheaper to have the "remote mounted turbo" compared to the normal turbo set up?

Raze
08-07-06, 10:03 AM
at this point its an unknown, but it would prevent having to severly modify the front bumper area, the piping would be simpler, but you would need more of it.

turbojimmy
08-07-06, 12:40 PM
at this point its an unknown, but it would prevent having to severly modify the front bumper area, the piping would be simpler, but you would need more of it.

You could start with an F-body kit and see how close that gets you. There are some pretty big differences in the exhaust system but you might be able to make it work. I'd think the hard part would be tucking the piping up out of the way (PCM issues aside).

Jim

aamusls06
08-09-06, 09:46 PM
Got Da*n. This makes me want to use all my firefighting money from details on this. Has their been a number shot out there. I'd considering doing this if the price was not too high in thousands.

Raze
08-10-06, 10:50 AM
Mark was nice enough to share his number with me for his build and I don't want to divulge it here but lets just say with new low compression pistons and forged rods (these are expensive as there's only one guy who makes em) ARP head studs (you're going to need to drill your block for the higher power output to keep the heads from lifting), new cams with more agressive grind, springs and retainers, prolly want a 3angle valve job and a port& polish too I mean why not right? You might be able to get away for 5k on the engine if you did all of it yourself, add a few more thousand if you have someone help you, add alot more if you have someone do it all. You'll need to rebuild your transmission as old clutches are going to fall apart under the load and put in a high stall torque converter with an LSD and a transmission cooler so there's another 5k. Then you need the turbo/turbos which are not cheap, plus custom piping, intercooler, oilsump, oil lines, and BOV, so add a few thousand more. Then you're going to spend a bunch having a PCM put together. Finally plan to spend a whole lot on tuning tuning tuning. As a DIY, it's expensive if you're good maybe 15k, and at this point the car's daily driveability is pretty much gone because who in their right mind is going to run around town in a 500 FWHP car to get groceries. Also, as it was mentioned before this car is unlikely to drive 30k miles without needing some serious repair, prolly in the transmission department.

MARK99STS
08-10-06, 10:51 AM
at this point its an unknown, but it would prevent having to severly modify the front bumper area, the piping would be simpler, but you would need more of it.

You would still have to address the crossover pipe that runs up and over the tranny. That is the choke point and if you don't open that up, it won't do much good to turbo it. The only place to reroute that pipe is under the cradle. If you have to run 1 pipe that way, you might as well run them all like I did. Unfortunately there are no other options to run the pipeing except under the cradle.

Raze
08-10-06, 10:53 AM
Jim you're absolutely right, I was thinking of trying to adapt an Fbody kit but only if the cost of adaptation is less than just doing it myself. The piping problem is the biggest hurdle to overcome as these cars sit damn low to the ground and there's just no space under them at all for anything. I've been working on a layout and will share it when i'm done.

MARK99STS
08-10-06, 11:00 AM
and at this point the car's daily driveability is pretty much gone because who in their right mind is going to run around town in a 500 FWHP car to get groceries. Also, as it was mentioned before this car is unlikely to drive 30k miles without needing some serious repair, prolly in the transmission department.

Actually the car is totally drivable as you don't even know the turbo is there unless you push it. That is the beauty of a turbo. That was my goal for this entire project was to keep the car stock in every aspect possible, but have the power to do a 12 sec 1/4 mile. Granted I probably won't drive it all the time with that kind of money invested in it and Raze is right, something will definately break. That is to be expected when you make these kind of extreme modifications.

Raze
08-10-06, 06:26 PM
I was hoping to spurr you into making an appearance Mark, sorry for that last shot about the 500 HP grocery getter I forgot to mention exactly how your turbo setup was, how's the manual shift controller coming btw?

GreenMachine
08-10-06, 11:29 PM
Ah whats the point of having it if you don't drive it?

Enjoy it while it lasts, sure going to the grocery store isn't is best fit but there are other places it can go to show it off, always hard even in my unmodifed 98 to bring it "high traffic" areas, always a new scratch, dent, ding, whatever, but heck I love to drive it and with the extra HP you must LOVE to drive your STS :)

How does it launch? traction in Front wheel drive can be troublesome? Its handle the extra power out of a turn nice?

Being a car guy I'm almost tempted to do a road trip to see this thing in person :)

MARK99STS
08-11-06, 08:09 AM
How does it launch? traction in Front wheel drive can be troublesome? Its handle the extra power out of a turn nice?

Being a car guy I'm almost tempted to do a road trip to see this thing in person :)

As with all front wheel drive cars traction from a stop is challenging. I haven't tried it yet, but I am going to disconnect the rear leveling sensors to jack the back end up shifting more weight to the front. I have to be carefull comming out of a curve as the extra power can cause the tires to break free very easily. It is a totally different car now so there is a learning curve all over. As soon as I get the shift controller on I am going to the dyno and the track to get some new numbers.

What part of the country are you in as I am going to make a road trip up by Detroit within the next month or so?

GreenMachine
08-11-06, 10:29 AM
Thats an idea that could help it. Fine line between to high and just enough, could easily get squirrly like that. You could I suppose stiffin the rear-end suspension up to try to "coax" the weight to want to stay in the front. Ah the challenges of sideways engines.

I'm in the Northeast, western new york, just outside of Buffalo.

Dr. Evil
12-21-06, 07:56 PM
As a new member, I have to throw my 2 cents in. How badass is to have a jaw dropping sleeper. "Hey, check out that dude in the Caddy revvin' the engine, let's smoke him." Hehehe or blasting the import tuners while using the heated seats and tilt/telescopic steering wheel. It would be even better if you wore a cardigan sweater!!

I really enjoyed your video. Congrats, on the uber sleeper. The way it ought to be

dp102288
12-21-06, 08:20 PM
Damn I never knew there was a vid!! I am shocked at the power. :drool:

:thumbsup: to Mark!!!!

CadillacSTS42005
12-21-06, 09:13 PM
lol
dude i cant believe you missed the vids

dp102288
12-22-06, 11:04 AM
^^ I am also looking for a vid a member made as a Seville STS promo vid. Many members were saying its what GM should have used to promote the Seville. In the vid a Seville was doing lots of burnouts. I can't seem to get it with my searching.

CadillacSTS42005
12-22-06, 11:37 AM
lol
i have it on my myspace
here ya go man
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=738770597
thats speedys sts if im not mistaken

dp102288
12-22-06, 09:25 PM
Thanks for the vid!!! Points.

Edit: damn out again...hopefully I remember...