: Synthetic Oil



CVP33
01-29-06, 06:41 PM
For those of us who change our own oil I did a little research after someone asked if using something other than Mobil 1 was engine and warranty safe. The owner's manual states that the sythetic oil must meet GM spec 4718M and 6094M.

The following full sythetics are available in 5w-30:

Pennzoil
Quaker State
Valvoline

All meet or exceed the GM 4718M high temperature specification and the GM 6094M low temperature specification. The best price I've found so far is for Pennzoil. This week at Advance Auto Parts you can buy a case (6 quarts) for $27.48, they offer a $15 rebate netting your cost down to $12.48 or $2.08 per quart. Pep Boys has a similar offer but their case cost is $29.94, still a deal.

I don't know about you guys but I'm saving my money for gas and tires. :thumbsup:

1MEANV
01-29-06, 06:48 PM
i would stick to the mobil 1

6104696
01-29-06, 07:22 PM
Good post Chris, thanks. I'm almost due, so I think I will swing by Advance tomorrow on the way home and take advantage of the rebate.....

rand49er
01-29-06, 09:21 PM
I don't know about you guys but I'm saving my money for gas and tires. :thumbsup:Thanks, Chris ... I'm saving for headers and need every penny. Hm-m-m, Pennzoil ... okay!:)

pietroraimondi
01-30-06, 09:44 AM
I would take a look at "Royal Purple".

I have been utilizing there entire product line in all of my vehicles and have found it to be a superior product if you have any belief in some of the testimonials that are posted by professional NASCAR, Circle Track, Pro-Circuit Race Teams and Top Fuel. It is endorsed by IHRA and NASCAR to name just two.

The following website: www.royalpurple.com is worth looking into.

You would be surprised at the number of "industry automotive moguls" that actually stand behind the true independent testing that has been done with Royal Purple compared to Penzoil, Mobil 1, Valvoline and every other synthetic product available.

These are actual scientific measured tests that you can view (42 pages in .pdf format) that support scientific facts and not just subjective opinions.

They have a complete product line engineered for high CR engines as well as supporting products for consumer use and industrial use as well. A complete line of synthetic products from motor oils to the transmission, differential, radiator/waterpump. etc.

You won't find it at your local "over the counter" auto supply store due to it's price. It is sold by independent master distributors through Motor Sport Performance shops.

6104696
01-30-06, 10:02 AM
not wanting to turn this into a lube debate but until the CTS-V I have used nothing but good old fashioned dino oil and have never had an oil related issue or problem, and never had engine wear contribute to the demise of a vehicle. I am humoring myself with Mobil 1 (and/or perhaps other synth) only due to alleged LS-6 heat issues, potential warranty issues, and sage recommendations of some experienced motor guys.

For street use, if Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Castrol, or any other meets the necessary GM standards, then it will meet my standards too. No need to be cheap when you are talking about a $50K car, but there is no reason to throw away $$ on something you don't need, either.

I don't doubt Royal Purple's claims of advantages; I just doubt whether it matters for street use.

PneuBird
01-30-06, 10:45 AM
Street use.......good point! I guess it depends on how much your "Beating the Cubes!!!" :stirpot:

pietroraimondi
01-30-06, 11:02 AM
Point well taken, but if it is "heat" that you are concerned about and you have any future plans to modify your LS6 to produce even more RWHP; "heat" has always been the great "robber" of horsepower.

I'm not endorsing the benefits of one product versus another; but one of the nice features of Royal Purple is that they offer product lines for:


Consumer Use - priced accordingly for those who make no HP modifications
Racing Use - priced accordingly for those who modify there LS6 to produce more HP than the "GM Standard"
Industrial Use - as simply the name implies.I for one believe that if you start with a synthetic oil product that has lubricating properties that effects the internal seals of a component such as a water pump for example; I would want to stay with that same product for the life of the automobile.

Allot of synthetic oil manufacturers will even suggest that you not use their product if in fact you current vehicle has higher mileage on it and you have been traditionally utilizing a standard non-synthetic oil product.

They makes this disclaimer or warning because the lubricating properties found in something like Mobil 1 can actually cause internal leaking due to the Mobil 1 affecting the internal seals that have hardened over time. The synthetic oil can actually do "to good of a job" and therefore lubricate the internal hardended seals and cause a leaking problem on an engine or water pump that otherwise was fine when you were using a standard over the counter lubricant for the last 50,000 plus miles.

I just think that it's important to think ahead if you plan on making any performance modifications; you choose an oil product and stay with it for the life of that vehicle.

GM recommends Mobil 1 based on 400 BHP at the crank. They don't recommend a Maggie supercharger of a ProCharger Centrifugal unit either. Therefore; if you ever plan on making that modification; GM has no recommendation for you with regard to what is the most ideal lubricant to utilize.

So therefore; your kind of on your own and have to do your own research and talk with others which is why the Forum is so valuable to it's users.

Mobil 1 may be perfectly fine for a modified LS6 platform with a Maggie supercharge, but who knows for sure? GM can't tell you that as they have done no testing and will in fact void your warranty for cracking the engine open!

IMHO; I just believe that every V owner has some kind of plan to "modify" what came from the factory as a 400 BHP motor with the idea of getting more. It usually starts with a few bolt-ons like a CAI and an exhaust system and possibly a pricey set of LT headers.

Then your in the deep-end of the swimming pool with regard to cam changes, valves, push-rods, stroker kits, forced induction etc. etc.

Once your there; IMO what oil or lubrication that you have been using from day 1 should be the same lubrication system that you continue to use otherwise you may run the risk of affecting some of the internal rubber seals, gaskets etc.

If in fact your plan is to simply add a few-bolt ons; I would stay with what the manufacturer recommends and that is Mobil 1. A CAI, and catback exhaust will NEVER affect your warranty under any circumstances; so why not just stay with what GM recommends and that is Mobil 1.

But as a vehicle owner; part of your long term plan is to turn this $50k vehicle into a $65K vehicle by modifying the engine to produce more RWHP than it's intended 400 at the crank; I would simply leave no stone unturned when making a selection for the first time as to what manufacturers lubrication system I'm going to be using and then stay with it as your "build unfolds" according to time and budget.

It's better to "plan now" then "pay later". That is one of the reasons why engine builders such as Katech will insist on actually pulling an engine out of the car and completely dissassembling it and "cleaning it" to do a simple cam and cylinder head/valve train swap. You just added $3500 in cleaning labor to get that old lubricant out of that engine to install $3500 worth of parts; hence $7000 for a cam and head package ( $3500 to remove and clean the engine).

Thinking ahead and perhaps spending a few dollars more for a higher grade lubricant would have perhaps saved you that $3500 in additional cleaning and degreasing labor; IMHO.

But your point is well noted. If your intent is to leave the engines RWHP virtually intact; I think Mobil 1 or any of the over the counter synthetics would serve well even after installing a couple of simple bolt-ons like the Volant CAI and a catback exhaust system.

best regards - Pete

6104696
01-30-06, 11:11 AM
Street use.......good point! I guess it depends on how much your "Beating the Cubes!!!" :stirpot:

If you are beating the cubes enough on a CTS-V in street use to generate track-like temperatures and conditions in your engine, then you deserve to have your engine blow up and to spend some time in the pokey.....
:alchi:

SoCadillac
01-30-06, 11:21 AM
I have used Royal Purple and it is exceedingly good oil with great people behind the product. It's not cheap, so don't expect to find any bargains on it; if you do--jump on it.

Pete,

The modification leagues, you delve into, do alter the factory warranty, but those leagues are also not for the average consumer, but for those who want more out of their vehicle and who willing to do and accept what it entails. Of course it is also those people that typically raise the bar or discover the innovation that moves an area forward.

BadCad
01-30-06, 05:37 PM
A CAI, and catback exhaust will NEVER affect your warranty under any circumstances
Pete:
Some posts here have experienced warranty problems because of CAI mods. Is this not an issue to be aware of?

CVP33
01-30-06, 06:26 PM
I changed the oil every 3,000 miles just for peace of mind. The last two changes I've used the oil life guage on the menu which supposedly takes into account hours in use, rpm's, city vs. hwy, etc. I made it 4,500 miles this time and it was still showing 33% oil life left. I know I'm defeating the purpose of not going a full 5,000 miles between changes or allow the oil life to get to 0% to then bitch about the price of Mobil 1. I believe that any sythetic oil with a quality filter, changed every 5,000 miles or less is doing about as good a job as any of the others. So if I can save $15 per oil change than so be it. BTW, I'm just over 29,000 and I've yet to have an oil related failure in this V or any other car for that matter. Quite a few unrelated failures though. :D

Mat347
01-30-06, 07:42 PM
I got a 5 gallon bucket of Royal Purple for $80 bux online. It is supirior to other synthetics, including Mobile 1. The local PepBoys actually stocks it. But seeming how I have free oil changes with my V I'll just use the RP in my race cars.

6104696
01-30-06, 08:30 PM
I guess the word is out. The Advance Auto in McLean was CLEANED OUT of the Pennzoil Q Synthetic in 5w-30.

lasstss
01-30-06, 08:42 PM
I have been using Amsoil, still tops. Of course I only have 5200miles on my car and 3 oil changes, so what the hell do I know!:suspense:

Pete... 3 sentances.... not paragraphs...

pietroraimondi
01-30-06, 11:54 PM
I have used Royal Purple and it is exceedingly good oil with great people behind the product. It's not cheap, so don't expect to find any bargains on it; if you do--jump on it.

Pete,

The modification leagues, you delve into, do alter the
factory warranty, but those leagues are also not for the average consumer, but for those who want more out of their vehicle and who willing to do and accept what it entails. Of course it is also those people that typically raise the bar or discover the innovation that moves an area forward.

Agree completely. It is "generally accepted" that if you "crack the engine or the drivetrain" ( i.e: open the engine, transmission, rear carrier) you can kiss your warranty goodbye. The burden of proof has now shifted to you "to prove" that the mods did not cause the problem. Allot like the IRS....you are guilty until you prove your innocent. You now have to demonstrate or prove that by installing the Maggie, it did not cause the rear to grenade.

It is also "generally accepted" in most legal jurisdictions that "bolt on modifications"; a K&N air filter, free flow mufflers, headers, cat-back etc that do not open the engine or drive train componentry; the burden of proof falls upon the dealer to prove that the "wrong installation of those 4" pipes" caused enough back-pressure to cause carbon depost build ups in the exhaust chamber and thus cooked your cylinder heads. Bolt-ons are not meant to mean "your off the hook", but the dealer has to "show cause" that the bolt on mod was the proximate cause of the engine or drivetrain failure.

But once you crack the engine or drivetrain, you can take your warranty and line the bottom of your birdcage with it!

I was surprised to learn that if you purchase a GM Performance Part from a GM Dealer & have the GM dealer do the install....your factory warranty is void if those same GM high performance cylinder heads cause a rear end failure.

BTW Mat 347.....that's a great deal on Royal Purple that your getting; may I ask where your ordering from?

pietroraimondi
01-31-06, 12:20 AM
On a personal note, I think that it has been well demonstrated that the very first modification that any CTSV owner should invest it should be a bullet proof rear carrier before making any RWHP drivetrain modifications.

The V's rear carrier is not even capable of supporting the RWHP and torque in it's OEM form; so why even install the Maggie or the GM C5R cylinder heads and get into a "pissing battle" with the dealer over a warranty issue on who is going to pay for a new 2006 rear-end that is destined to fail again. There are people on this forum that are on their 3'rd and 4'th GM Getrag rear who have not even done a single thing to there V.

I've been guilty of "collecting" high-end CTSV RWHP mods that are still brand new and in the box. But install them now knowing in advance that my rear carrier will blow.....I would have to be crazy to install those mods.

The moment a new rear is available; that goes in first; the warranty goes into the garbage can and the engine get's cracked open & bored and the box of mods get installed.

That's the "insurance" I'm looking to buy.

If the new rear carrier fails to materialize; I'll leave the motor bone stock and sell the stroker kit, the C5R Lingenfelter heads and everything else that I have accumulated as they are all brand new and in the boxes and let someone take there chances.

Next to the self-exploding gas tank on the Ford Pinto; this CTSV rear carrier unit has to be the biggest scam that any auto-maker has ever gotten away with and it surprises me everyday that some attorney has not petitioned for a class action suit given the claims that GM has falsely made of 0-60 in 4.6 seconds without the disclaimer....(*Your rear carrier explodes at 61 mph and don't try this at home)

04CTSVFLA
01-31-06, 12:44 AM
yep.....im on my 2nd diff...1st one blew b4 any mods, now i have volant, and my 2nd one (still an 05 diff..old part #) is starting to go. I WANT NEW PART # why wont my dealer just give it to me!!!!! AHHH.

PneuBird
01-31-06, 04:20 AM
All Class Action attorneys....Please step forward!!! :want:

pietroraimondi
01-31-06, 04:53 AM
What it will ultimately take to move GM to action is for that rear carrier to grenade and when it does and you lose control of the vehicle and cross the double yellow and kill someone or yourself....then GM will pay.

Sound a bit familiar like the Firestone tire story and Fords notice of those faulty tires but yet never issued a recall and handled it on a TSB case by case "premature wear basis"?

For now it's just been blown rears. Wait until that blown rear results in loss of control of the vehicle and either you or another innocent motorist is seriously or fatally wounded!

I think all of the evidence in the world for any class action attorney woth his salt to file suit in any liberal state will ultimately file suit that could potentially be worth billions of dollars in punitive damages. As all of the evidence has been posted at least a 1000 times just on this forum alone.