: Limo Sway bars 94-96 (maybe others)



N0DIH
01-17-06, 02:07 PM
I talked with Dale, my parts guys at the local Cadillac dealer and he looked up the 1978-1981 WS6 T/A bar and the 1994-1996 Fleetwood Brougham limo bars.

They are not the same as I previously had hoped.

The T/A bar is 1.25", and is no longer sourced at GM, and not in inventory at all.

There are 2 bars for the Fleetwood Broughams, FE1 and FE2/FE7. I have FE2 already, so I am assuming that FE7 is the Limo suspension (likely the fat bars and stiffer springs to handle the commerical duty), as it is marked Heavy Duty. I think the FE2/FE7 bar is a 1 1/8" inch, or the metric equivelent. So the T/A bar is most definately an upgrade. The FE2/FE7 bar is still in inventory.

He recommended I try a place called Brown's of two lakes. Apparently they end up with a lot of GM obsolete parts.

I picked up my Herb Adams 1 5/8" rear bar this weekend. Haven't installed it, but I am waiting till I find a larger front bar before I do. The reason I got it from my friend is he didn't have a large enough front bar to match it on any of his cars (73 LeMans and 85 Delta 88)

This bar is a monster! Can't wait to install it!!

caddycruiser
01-17-06, 02:22 PM
Hmm...should be an interesting difference in the car afterwards. Hope you can find the other one, though.

Katshot
01-17-06, 02:45 PM
1-5/8" is WAY too big for the rear IMO.

N0DIH
01-17-06, 04:10 PM
That is what I am hoping it isn't. I have a Rancho 1.25" adjustable front on my T/A that is able to do up to 900 lb/in deflection. I may end up installing it. But it has the heim joints, and they aren't the most longest lasting on the street. I know, I have had them on the car for 9 years now, and in 40K miles have gone through 5-6 set of joints.... But the reponse and power of that bar is awesome.
I had the matching 1" rear adjustable bar too. That one is around 400-500 lb/in (I don't remember the actual #'s). Essentially you can shorten the lever on the rear to nearly locked up where it only has around a 2in lever.

ocjmakaveli
01-17-06, 04:30 PM
I think 1 5/8 is the biggest bar I've ever read of the biggest i've heard of is about 35mm (1 1/3") thick on some impala ss that are autocrossed or something.

It may be a little too much but let us know how it goes.

My biggest worry would be the screws for the rear bar not holding and either them breaking or the threads not holding.

Ive read a few people having rear bolt problems with the bigger 35mm bars.

Katshot
01-17-06, 04:32 PM
Yeah well notice the ratio there. 1.25" front, 1" rear. That's fairly normal. Now you want a 1-5/8" rear bar? You gonna put a nearly 2" front bar on? Unless you do, you're stiffening the rear too much. Way out of proportion to the front. The rear should be a good bit smaller than the front in this type of application. If not, you're gonna drastically increase the likelihood of oversteer I would think. And IF you maintain a "normal" front/rear proportion, the side to side balance is going to be WAY too stiff IMO.

N0DIH
01-17-06, 04:34 PM
My Rancho front bar pulled out of the frame numerous times on my T/A. Once I was able to put nuts on the bolts it was fine. A local Chevy dealer (Weber in St. Louis) said they had that problem on the Z28 they raced and they bolted up and then tack welded the bracket. It kept it in ok then. A little extreme, but was needed. I was thinking of welding a 1/4" thick plate to the frame and then tap it for the holes or even nutsert/helicoil it to make something super solid.

BCs71
01-18-06, 01:11 PM
Before you put on a rear sway bar that is bigger than stock, I'd recommend upgrading the rear control arms. They are ridiculously weak even for stock applications IMO.
Or box them in like this if you have the skills:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/312568/7

BMR sells nice rear tubular LCA for a decent price (about $180). They are a nice upgrade over stock. I just picked up a set and they will go on before spring. Then I will add a different sway bar along with a front upgrade ( second gen F-body WS6 is my leading candidate also).

N0DIH
01-18-06, 08:46 PM
Are those LCA's the rear axle centering ones for the Impala? They won't work right on the FWB would they?

I'll look at getting a local welder to box them. Seems easy enough. We have 2 local welders in town, one seems pretty good that I have heard. Maybe get another set and box those.

Mine are the ones that bolts go all the way through on. I have heard the Impala guys have problems with the ones that the bolts only go half way through.


Before you put on a rear sway bar that is bigger than stock, I'd recommend upgrading the rear control arms. They are ridiculously weak even for stock applications IMO.
Or box them in like this if you have the skills:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/312568/7

BMR sells nice rear tubular LCA for a decent price (about $180). They are a nice upgrade over stock. I just picked up a set and they will go on before spring. Then I will add a different sway bar along with a front upgrade ( second gen F-body WS6 is my leading candidate also).

BCs71
01-19-06, 12:26 PM
Pretty sure the FW and Impala (and all B-bodies for that matter) have identical rear suspensions. So install is the same. BMR LCAs are universal for all B/D bodies.

I opted for the stock length BMR LCAs since the extended length LCAs cause more problems IMO than they are worth. The only benefit is the cosmetic change by centering the rear wheels in the wheel wells. The downside is that in order to move the rear wheels back with the extended length arms, the driveshaft is slipped back a bit out of the tranny tailshaft. SOme guys have even required a new extended driveshaft to be on the safe side.

To me the cosmetic benefit is not worth a new $300+ driveshaft....

I have an extra set of stock LCAs I also plan to box in myself. These will go on the Caprice with the stock swaybar as I've heard from other folks that just simply upgrading the stock LCAs will yield noticeable handling improvements.... apparently the flexibilty in the stock LCAs is that bad!

Katshot
01-19-06, 12:47 PM
There's actually different length control arms for different applications. I remember changing them years ago and having to order specific size ones. I can't remember if this was unique to the limos or not but, you should be able to check with a dealer to verify.
I just looked it up in my parts book and there ARE two different sets for the '93 - '96 Fleetwoods (that's as far back as my book goes, sorry). They list them as "standard" and "Heavy-duty".

N0DIH
01-19-06, 01:58 PM
Hmm, wonder if that is the FE7 HD suspension.

Don't look on Car-Part.com, they list Devilles (FWD) for Broughams and Fleetwoods in 1994-1996... Can't do limo specifically.

Any ideas of the 1992 and older Limo's might have the same arms? Does the 9.5" use a different arm?

Katshot
01-19-06, 02:07 PM
Actually, we had a lot of rear control arms going bad and had GM sending us updated parts for our cars. Wish I could remember what year that was but I can't. At the time though, I remember there was at least a couple different arms, and they were just different lengths as I recall.

N0DIH
01-19-06, 02:17 PM
So best to box my own?

What went bad on them? Did they fail and collapse?

Katshot
01-19-06, 07:30 PM
The bushings failed and the arms themselves got so fatigued that the bushings started getting loose in them.

N0DIH
01-19-06, 08:57 PM
Hmmm, I will look closely on mine. Being this is my first RWD car since 1984 with this 4 link style rear suspension (my other is my T/A and my Suburban) I will have to keep tabs on it.

I am wondering if anyone has had first hand experience with the fat rear bar and stock front?

My reasons are: I drove my Cutlass after I got it from my dad for some time, and he drove it for several years with the stock puny front 7/8" bar and I had installed the 442 7/8" or so rear bar. We also had 442 springs on it too. If pushed, you were very very neutral, enough you needed to be careful in turns when applying power.

I wonder just how much power this bar has..... Maybe I will try it for a week to see....