: I got porked...Blown N*.



Odin8
01-14-06, 03:13 AM
Alright guys, I'd first like to say you all do a great job here, and I very much appreciate the information that's here from you people. I've done research here for about the past 4 months in order to buy a caddy.

I purchased a 97 Seville STS 2 days ago, with 91k miles. Wonderful condition, everything checked out, saw it was dealer maintained through carfax records and dealer records, it seemed perfect. I bought it from the 2nd owner, who bought it from the dealer where it was traded in. He had it for about 4 months, told me he didn't have the money and needed to get rid of a car. I looked the thing over front to back, looked at all the stuff to check for headgasket failure among other things. Change oil alert was on, 0% life left...checked the oil, it wasn't low, was a bit dirty though, it just needed to be changed. Car checked out fine. Great mechanical condition.

Drove it home 25 miles, ran beautiful. It seemed a bit more sluggish then some of the other STS I've driven, but I chalked it up to him running regular gas, which he admited to doing. Heat gauge was fine, no warning lights, no engine sounds, nothing. I was stoked.

Got home, decided to run to Dunkin Donuts to celebrate my new pimp ride with some glazed donuts. It's about 2 miles away. I got about halfway there, and it started to develop a little slap from the engine. I figured it was because of carbon buildup, and the fact it was running on regular. It consistantly got worst. I drove about another 1/2 mile before I found it unaccpetable. It was a slapping/knocking now, real loud, and I just plain didn't like it. I had been babying it from when it started, and I turned her around and started heading home.

I pulled a U-turn in the road, and got on it to get back up to speed. Had it around 4k RPM, knocking was horrible, I was about to let off, then BAMN. Something let go, I felt/heard it, and it made a horrible noise that made me cringe. Engine died right away. I swore. A lot.

Towed it home, engine will still try to turn over, so it's not seized( I tried briefly out of curiousity, didn't want to hurt it more though ), won't start though. There is no external physical damage, and no fluid leaks. From what I'm thinking, I threw a rod, broke the timing chain, ****ed some valves up...something along those lines, I don't really know though. I'm tear ass, I'd never expect ANYTHING along these lines to happen to a Northstar, nevermind one with 91k miles on it that had a regular serivce report at a dealer.

Before I get this looked at by a garage, and before I show up at this guys house with some of my buddies looking for money, I figured I'd ask for some input from you folks...Long story short, WTF happened to my seemingly perfect cadillac, what do you think needs to be fixed, and how much am I going to have hurt this guy for? Other then this, this car is showroom condition...I want to try and fix whatever's wrong and hold on to it.

I'd appreciate any help or input on this,
Jon

Tommy Deville
01-14-06, 10:54 AM
buyer beware

El Dobro
01-14-06, 11:12 AM
First thing, do a compression check.

Ranger
01-14-06, 12:10 PM
People come here when they have problems, so this is a good place to find out which ones are common. I have only heard of two that ever threw a rod. Never heard of a timing chain letting loose. Does the history show any lower end work being done? Any major engine repairs?

CadillacSTS42005
01-14-06, 12:14 PM
My dads 93 ETC (which he traded in for his 98 STS) threw a rod BAD, huge engine noise however it still started and ran fine but an AWFUL knocking noise came from it even at idle. So Ranger now you know of 3 ha ha.

zonie77
01-14-06, 01:23 PM
Was the oil changed? Who did it?

I'm kind of mixed on this. You drove it 25miles without a problem, then engine starts knocking. Could be horrible coincidence...or a masked problem. A lot of STP in the oil, change to regular oil lets you hear the knock?

Odin8
01-14-06, 01:32 PM
The service history I got from the dealership didn't indicate any engine repairs at all. Besides just the routine maintenence, they replaced some of front end suspension...bushings, etc. They did the fuel rail recall. And that's about it.

I'm going to go do some poking around on it in a little while, going to try to find a compression tester too. Gonna see if there any engine codes on now, and do some more basic stuff...see if my oil is white, etc. Thanks so far guys.

Odin8
01-14-06, 01:35 PM
The oil hadn't been changed yet. To be honest, after my celebratory donut run, I was going to head to the local auto place to grab some oil and a filter. =\

turbojimmy
01-14-06, 02:00 PM
Was the oil changed? Who did it?
I'm kind of mixed on this. You drove it 25miles without a problem, then engine starts knocking. Could be horrible coincidence...or a masked problem. A lot of STP in the oil, change to regular oil lets you hear the knock?

It does sound like a horrible coinicidence. Additives will only do so much to mask a knock. They certainly don't make a car run that doesn't run.

There's not much you can do about anything that may have been wrong with it now so you'll have to focus on how to repair it. Horrible noises accompanied by the engine stopping probably means you're looking at a replacement engine. Used ones can be found relatively inexpensively (compared to a new one) but you have to be careful of the source.

I agree with the compression check. If you have compression in all 8 cylinders then you know the valves are opening and closing and the pistons are in tact. If that all checks out then you have a shot at repairing it rather than replacing it.

Jim

zonie77
01-14-06, 02:46 PM
Any strange noises when it cranks over? Normal cranking speed?

Odin8
01-14-06, 04:07 PM
Double checked my oil...nothing has been mixed in, and I looked underneath, I'm not leaking anything. I couldn't get my hands on a compression tester today. As for trying to crank it over...last time I tried briefly it seemed to crank at a normal speed, and there wasn't any kind of real bad noise that I noted. I don't really wanna go ahead and try it again to see what I hear, I don't want to make it any worse if there is a chance of rebuilding it.

If the top ends needs to be rebuild/repaired, or something along those lines, how much would you expect that to cost? And what's the sticker price on a used and new Northstars?

dkozloski
01-14-06, 04:07 PM
Take the oil filter cartridge off, cut it apart, and see if it has metal in it. If you don't know somebody with a filter cutter you can use a fine tooth hacksaw. If it has thrown a rod you'll find bearing metal galore.

Odin8
01-14-06, 06:28 PM
As of right now, I'm going to let it just sit and not touch it at all until I talk to an attorney and figure out the lemon laws and what not, and get in touch with this guy that sold me it. Hopefully that'll happen Tuesday.

One note though, when I double checked my oil, I did notice it was maxed out, even a little over. Dunno if that means anything. When I originally checked I just glanced to make sure that it wasn't at the refill point, but when I think back, it was pretty high to begin with.

eldorado1
01-14-06, 07:08 PM
Throwing rods seems to be getting more common on the northstars. It appears as though the bolts lose their torque and just let go. I saw this on a 2000 a couple years ago.

If you wanted to crank it over without it starting, you can disconnect the fuel injector harness.

Playdrv4me
01-14-06, 07:12 PM
Throwing rods seems to be getting more common on the northstars. It appears as though the bolts lose their torque and just let go. I saw this on a 2000 a couple years ago.

If you wanted to crank it over without it starting, you can disconnect the fuel injector harness.

Oh terrific... something else to look forward too :rolleyes:

eldorado1
01-14-06, 07:18 PM
Well the good news is it seems to be relatively sporadic and random...

danbuc
01-14-06, 07:24 PM
More common? I think not....other than this one...when is the last time you heard of a N* throwing a rod? I've only heard of maybe one or two others that have suffered this fate. To me it doesn't sound like enough damage to be a thrown rod, especially under the loads you described. Usually when a rod lets go liek that, you'll end up with a whole punched somewhere in the block, or the pan. That knock definitely sound like abearing let go though.

dkozloski
01-14-06, 08:30 PM
All casual sales(owner to owner) are "as is". Unless you have a specific written warranty statement from the owner you are SOL.

csason
01-14-06, 08:32 PM
ya know...if you start any kind of repairs...you could be taking
steps in the wrong direction, but to be honest, I seriously doubt
you have any legal recourse.

Personally, I would have already contacted the guy, as a gentleman, and informed him of the turn of events. If he is decent, he might offer to help you offset the cost of an engine (btw...if you drain the oil...you will find all kinds
of metal..when an engine makes any unusual niose it is best to kill it. Loud
clanking noises from any engine, means a complete tear down, if you intend to keep it, barring block damage) which is probably the future of your car.

I would ask, if he didnt offer...for him to step up and help you offset the costs. If I sold you a vehicle, I would TELL you, hey its about to blow...
If I implied the car was good to go, and I figure you didnt hotdog it, wind it out and blow it...I would feel it would be right to help out, say 1000 bucks.

Now if you had that look in your eye, like..."I cant wait to hold this b*^h
to the floor" I might not be as nice...

At the end of this...if your seller is a jerk (in some subtle yet meaningful way) and tells you its your problem...do the best thing..REMEMBER how this
happened...
Something similar has happened to me...(she lives in Orlando..50 bucks a week alimony since 84) and it hasnt happened since...lol.

Life is unfair...it'll eat you up if you let it.

I wish you well..I really do. I would go with a remanned motor, WITH a
GOOD warranty, from a REPUTABLE dealer...no pulls, forget that..maybe for
a S-10 pickup but not a Northstar...very rarely will you find a feasible
pull for a decent Cadi...

eldorado1
01-14-06, 10:19 PM
More common? I think not....other than this one...when is the last time you heard of a N* throwing a rod? I've only heard of maybe one or two others that have suffered this fate. To me it doesn't sound like enough damage to be a thrown rod, especially under the loads you described. Usually when a rod lets go liek that, you'll end up with a whole punched somewhere in the block, or the pan. That knock definitely sound like abearing let go though.

You mean aside from the 2000 engine I purchased that threw a rod? I've heard of at least 2 others on this forum, not including this one, if indeed that's what it is...

I've seen it increasing in frequency - specifically with later model engines. I can't say for sure whether GM changed some threading procedure or bolt manufacturer sometime after the mid 90's. It's certainly not as common a problem as a leaking fuel rail (and related engine fires), FPR, or headgaskets (or head bolt threads), in fact I'd say it's at the very bottom of the list.... but it is out there.

For what it's worth, all the cases I've seen were 97-2000 engines.

Odin8
01-14-06, 10:41 PM
Well, Come Tuesday/Wednesday I'll figure out what I'm doing exactly, what happened to the engine, and what the fate of the car is. If in fact I do need a new engine though, and I decide to get a remanufactured one ( Is this arguable the best choice?), any suggestions on specific places/businesses that I should look at for one? And how much will one of them cost me? (Parts/labor/whatever) Thanks for the help so far guys.

csason
01-14-06, 11:10 PM
Well, Come Tuesday/Wednesday I'll figure out what I'm doing exactly, what happened to the engine, and what the fate of the car is. If in fact I do need a new engine though, and I decide to get a remanufactured one ( Is this arguable the best choice?), any suggestions on specific places/businesses that I should look at for one? And how much will one of them cost me? (Parts/labor/whatever) Thanks for the help so far guys.

Are you swapping it yourself ???

If mine slinged/slung whatevr a rod...I would rather take the block
to a trusted machine shop, that does N*.. but that is me...
and then get a good shop to d the swap.

If I was swapping my Van motor, I would buy it from advanced or someone
like that...there are some good mass-rebuilders that do good work.
I guess it depends on your ambitions for the car...

danbuc
01-15-06, 12:45 AM
I've seen it increasing in frequency - specifically with later model engines. I can't say for sure whether GM changed some threading procedure or bolt manufacturer sometime after the mid 90's. It's certainly not as common a problem as a leaking fuel rail (and related engine fires), FPR, or headgaskets (or head bolt threads), in fact I'd say it's at the very bottom of the list.... but it is out there.

For what it's worth, all the cases I've seen were 97-2000 engines.

Ok, so that's four. Still not a whole lot. I bet more E46 M3's threw rods than any N* powered has.

Odin8
01-15-06, 02:26 AM
No, I wouldn't be doing the work myself. Definately would be bringing it to a good shop to do that.

cart69
01-15-06, 01:23 PM
where are you located?? and if you decide to replace to motor depending on location i would be willing to buy the bad motor as well, also help ya out if your around illinois

oh yea i think rock auto has N* longblocks for around 2500 or so

Odin8
01-15-06, 01:27 PM
I'm in central Massachusetts. Trying to figure out how I'm going to go about finding a reputable shop that knows what they're doing with Northstars, along with where I can buy one in the first place.

cart69
01-15-06, 01:36 PM
ebay has a few but they are used, i think jasper sells them, and there are a few other reman outfits out there, you can check rockauto.com for long blocks and parts as they usually have he best prices.

csason
01-15-06, 02:08 PM
I'm in central Massachusetts. Trying to figure out how I'm going to go about finding a reputable shop that knows what they're doing with Northstars, along with where I can buy one in the first place.

Well if I had a shop and somebody brought me a broken car, and a motor..
(from your post it looks like thats your plan) I would be uncomfortable
with giving you a warranty..on any of it..do you follow..

If you are planning on NOT doing any of the actual repair yourself...
find the point you have to hire someone else, and get the best price at that..

if workmanship is paramount, dont quibble about money...it offends the
workman, believe me.

Most 'good' shops are also 'fair'...problem is, people confuse 'fair' with economical...

N* is not a late model chevy small block....of which I can buy three cherry
ones within the hour for 500 apiece...

cut your losses, bite the bullet....sry.

In the long run, you will be better off, and ultimately, happier.

Tommy Deville
01-15-06, 06:05 PM
My 95 Auora blew its motor when the A/C compressor frozze up & instead of free wheeling i shut the car off and it never started again, broke a cam it was horrible

eldorado1
01-15-06, 07:20 PM
My 95 Auora blew its motor when the A/C compressor frozze up & instead of free wheeling i shut the car off and it never started again, broke a cam it was horrible

:suspect:

How does that happen? Worst case it burns up the serpentine belt...

94greencaddysls
01-15-06, 09:39 PM
yeah i hate to say it but a frozen air compressor would never do that. Maybe if the waterpump froze up but even then the little belt that drives it off the cam wouldnt be strong enough to warrant the camshaft breaking.

93greeneldo
01-15-06, 10:38 PM
I had almost the same thing happen to me on my 1998 aurora, the a/c compressor froze and the belt did snap but it did end up damaging pretty much everything it touched. The camshaft didn't break but the motor needs over 2000 in work, sorry I cant be more specific but it happened the same day I traded the car in so all I heard is what the guys told me the next time I was in the shop.

Odin8
01-17-06, 02:03 AM
Let's say that something in the top end went, no matter what I'm going to have to get it timeserted and everything associated right, even if my headgasket wasn't a problem before?

auroradude
01-17-06, 12:03 PM
Guess I better be careful with the A/C then. I never use it at all, and when I do use it (once after 6 months of sitting) it makes obnoxiously loud grinding noises like its dry. I'm definately afraid to use it now, since its original. Im gonna disconnect it.


Sorry to hear about your motor though Odin8, that is just horrible. I wouldve AT LEAST test drove it really hard before I bought it, tohugh so that may be partially your fault. I drive every car I test at least 25 or 30 miles, stand on the brakes with all my weight, Floor the accelerator out of every light, and always go at least 100mph somewhere with it. You gotta do all that.

csason
01-17-06, 12:15 PM
Guess I better be careful with the A/C then. I never use it at all, and when I do use it (once after 6 months of sitting) it makes obnoxiously loud grinding noises like its dry. I'm definately afraid to use it now, since its original. Im gonna disconnect it.


Sorry to hear about your motor though Odin8, that is just horrible. I wouldve AT LEAST test drove it really hard before I bought it, tohugh so that may be partially your fault. I drive every car I test at least 25 or 30 miles, stand on the brakes with all my weight, Floor the accelerator out of every light, and always go at least 100mph somewhere with it. You gotta do all that.

yeah, until you blow somebody's car up....lol

auroradude
01-17-06, 12:38 PM
So be it..that would be their problem then. Thats what you want. You dont want to be stuck with that.

Tommy Deville
01-17-06, 03:24 PM
yeah i hate to say it but a frozen air compressor would never do that. Maybe if the waterpump froze up but even then the little belt that drives it off the cam wouldnt be strong enough to warrant the camshaft breaking.


It was the weridest thing, The car was making a werid noise for a while which turned out was the A/C compressor..........When the car would not start we replaced the starter....it would not crank or anything......once hey relaized nothing would turn they told me the motor was bad...had it towed to Oldsmobile who was at a lost.....had it taken to anthoer shop when they got another mtotr that did not come with an A/C compressor thats when they reliazed it completly seized up.........I have heard of other people who had the same thing happen to them with Auoras. what was werid about mine was that it was running, i shut it off and it never started ever again. cost was unreal to replace the motor which was used close to 5gs

fartman
01-17-06, 09:00 PM
I test drove an aurora, I think it was a 97, and it ended up having a blown engine. This car only had around 65000 miles on it. When I drove it, it just seemed sort of sluggish compared to another aurora I drove and it seemed rough. I had them take it to my mechanic, who works right across the street from the dealer. When I came back later they said it had a blown cylinder. About a week later the car was back on the lot. Now I see it driving around town. I feel sorry for that guy.

auroradude
01-17-06, 10:38 PM
5 grand? and you paid that much? you gotta be out of your mind man. I'd lease a new GTO if mine ever does that. At some point you gotta throw in the towel. The 4 and $500 items that seem to plague this thing every 2 or 3 months for the past 2 years get old, but they are manageable (for me). I spent $5,000 last year fixing stupid stuff in the car. It was one item after another, literally. I couldve leased a new GTO, its just the insurance premium wouldve been outrageous. I was quoted $9500 a year, which basically defeats the purpose.

That being said, if I ever have a $1500+ item fail, this car is out of here. As much as I love it, there is no way I am spending any more than that.

Tommy Deville
01-17-06, 10:40 PM
I test drove an aurora, I think it was a 97, and it ended up having a blown engine. This car only had around 65000 miles on it. When I drove it, it just seemed sort of sluggish compared to another aurora I drove and it seemed rough. I had them take it to my mechanic, who works right across the street from the dealer. When I came back later they said it had a blown cylinder. About a week later the car was back on the lot. Now I see it driving around town. I feel sorry for that guy.

mine had 62k on it

Tommy Deville
01-18-06, 07:32 PM
5 grand? and you paid that much? you gotta be out of your mind man. I'd lease a new GTO if mine ever does that. At some point you gotta throw in the towel. The 4 and $500 items that seem to plague this thing every 2 or 3 months for the past 2 years get old, but they are manageable (for me). I spent $5,000 last year fixing stupid stuff in the car. It was one item after another, literally. I couldve leased a new GTO, its just the insurance premium wouldve been outrageous. I was quoted $9500 a year, which basically defeats the purpose.

That being said, if I ever have a $1500+ item fail, this car is out of here. As much as I love it, there is no way I am spending any more than that.

I forgot to mention it was a lease....actually it was a re-lease i picked the car up from a leasing company and i did not purchase the extended warrenty.
insurance picked up appx $3800 i HAD 2 LAY OUT THE REST, STILL ALOT OF MONEY

Tommy Deville
01-21-06, 02:34 PM
Well, Come Tuesday/Wednesday I'll figure out what I'm doing exactly, what happened to the engine, and what the fate of the car is. If in fact I do need a new engine though, and I decide to get a remanufactured one ( Is this arguable the best choice?), any suggestions on specific places/businesses that I should look at for one? And how much will one of them cost me? (Parts/labor/whatever) Thanks for the help so far guys.



So.......................what happen? did u contact the seller??

Odin8
01-22-06, 01:01 AM
Alright, here's the update...I was waiting to give you guys the full scoop, and I actually got most of it sorted out today. I got in touch with the guy, he was cooperative at least, and the sale was actually technically through a dealer, so that helped a bit. The law said that he has to fix it, or take the car back and give me the money...but it is his choice. He wanted to tow the car back to his place and get it fixed, and I didn't think that was the best of ideas. He got some lowball quote from some shady place, where he lives, to replace the engine for 2000, which was BS. I showed it to my lawyer and he said it satisfied the law, so that kind of sucks. So I told the guy I want cash, I'd do the work through someone I knew, and that's where it's at right now. I'm sitting here with 2 grand and a bum caddy, which hasn't been touched yet, so I still don't know exactly what's wrong with it. Didn't want to touch it until all the legal BS got sorted out, which thankfully was finished today.

So I've got a few options on my hands right now. I got quoted from some guy that works on Caddys/Northstars that he'll drop a remanufactured Jasper in it for a total of 7200, including labor. I'm also looking at a junkyard motor for 2000, that's been compression checked/cylinder leak down tested, plus labor which would come to a total of around 4 grand. As far as I could tell the rest of the car is mechanically sound, but I'm going to get that looked at when it goes into a shop for a motor. Any suggestions/comments guys?

terrible one
01-22-06, 01:27 AM
I say firstly cut open that filter and see if there's any trace of a thrashed bearing.

Odin8
01-22-06, 01:34 AM
That was actually one of the first things I was going to do tomorrow, before I get it to a shop Monday. If nothing points to bottom end damage and when I get it in the shop and it happens to be all top end, can that be practically fixed without a new engine? My only concern with that scenario would be if something in the top end failed from poor lubrication...then how far behind is something in the bottom end?

terrible one
01-22-06, 01:52 AM
I don't know much about Northstars, but if it was something easy that didn't require the whole engine to be rebuilt (which I heard is tough with a N*) then you could fix it and have some money left over maybe. I dunno

Swine
01-22-06, 01:54 AM
Why did you keep the car?

zonie77
01-22-06, 01:59 AM
You have to know what's wrong with the engine before you can make a decision on it. Since you are having it done that means 2-3 hours time for someone to tear it apart. It might be worth it depending on what they find.

At least the time to pull it is the same either way.

Odin8
01-22-06, 02:24 AM
Yah...I've also heard that N*s can be hard to rebuild, that's why I've been looking at the replacement motor already. And yah, I know I have to figure out in concrete what the hell happened before I do anything, but I'm just trying to figure out my options in advance.

As for why I kept the car...I had to. It's all the dealer's choice whether to fix it or take it back, and if they wanted to fix it then I couldn't force them to take the car back. I know I got porked...it hurts, and there wasn't much of anything more I could do about it...I just tried to get as much money as I could back so I could at least try to enjoy the porking instead of getting raped.

Swine
01-22-06, 03:40 AM
Yah...I've also heard that N*s can be hard to rebuild, that's why I've been looking at the replacement motor already. And yah, I know I have to figure out in concrete what the hell happened before I do anything, but I'm just trying to figure out my options in advance.

As for why I kept the car...I had to. It's all the dealer's choice whether to fix it or take it back, and if they wanted to fix it then I couldn't force them to take the car back. I know I got porked...it hurts, and there wasn't much of anything more I could do about it...I just tried to get as much money as I could back so I could at least try to enjoy the porking instead of getting raped.OK, that makes sense...
If I'm reading this right, did you accept 2,000 instead of having them fix it? What if it costs more than a couple of grand??

Odin8
01-22-06, 03:58 AM
Yah, I took the 2000 and told them I'd get the work done myself. I'd rather take the money and invest some of my own to get the work down right, instead of them half ass something into it so it'll run for at least 30 days to pass the warranty period then blow up again and I'd be out everything.

turbojimmy
01-22-06, 09:17 AM
Yah, I took the 2000 and told them I'd get the work done myself. I'd rather take the money and invest some of my own to get the work down right, instead of them half ass something into it so it'll run for at least 30 days to pass the warranty period then blow up again and I'd be out everything.

You'll be in for more than $2k if the engine needs replaced but $2k 'cash back' on a used car is an excellent deal. In NJ you'd be screwed if it was sold private property or via a dealer (dealers have to specify that it's "As-is; No Warranty).

Jim

terrible one
01-22-06, 01:21 PM
But if your current engine doesn't need to be replaced then you will MAKE a bit of money, right?

Odin8
01-22-06, 07:13 PM
If my current engine doesn't need to be replaced...then it depends on how much it'll cost to get it fixed...I wouldn't say I'm making money just yet.

Drained the oil and took the filter off today. No metal bits in the oil that I could see, and I cut my filter in half and nothing struck me as unusual.

You know the best part? My assumption is this guy screwed me, and he did a good job of it. Although, I don't understand why he would have been so cooperative and have such an open line of communication with me if he was trying to pull one over on me. As I pulled the oil drain bolt out, the first quart or so of liquid was what appeared to be tranny fluid. My first reaction was WTF? I didn't just open up my tranny drain did I? Then oil started coming out for the other 6 or so quarts. So either this guy is a dumbass and put tranny fluid in the oil, or he put it in there to try and mask some kind of noise? I'm kind of puzzled at the moment...:hmm:

zonie77
01-22-06, 08:24 PM
ATF is very thin so I don't know what he would be trying to mask. It can be used for cleaning the engine though, but I've never noticed it seperate from the oil once it mixed. Did the oil seem unusually thin? Possibly refilling the engine with 10w30 is the next step.

Odin8
01-22-06, 09:17 PM
The two seperated almost perfectly, I have the jug sitting in my garage...half ATF ( I'm assuming it's ATF, it's the same color as the liquid on my tranny dipstick, and I couldn't imagine what else is pinkish in color) on the bottom, half oil on the top. The oil itself didn't seem thin, and you couldn't see anything other then oil on the dipstick.

eldorado1
01-22-06, 09:37 PM
Is it viscous and oily? Does it taste like tranny fluid? :D

I don't see why tranny fluid would separate either... I think it might possibly be coolant.. Isn't dexcool red? Or one of those other long life ones?

The fact that it came out first is another indication that it might be water - oil floats on water. I don't have the time to reread the thread, but I think you said it made some noise when it suddenly died, right? It's possible (probable) that if something let go, something pierced the cooling jacket.

Odin8
01-22-06, 11:46 PM
Yah...the pink stuff is definately viscous/oily, because that was the first thing that got all over my hands.

If it was different weight oils, wouldn't they seperate anyways? Yah, it did make a horrible noise before it died, made me cringe...heh. And if I did pierce the cooling jacket and put coolant into the engine oil, wouldn't it be a whiteish and frothy instead of it being a clean seperation between the two? One more thing...wouldn't I be empyting out more then roughly 7.5 quarts of fluid, which is the usual amount of engine oil? I filled up an entire one gallon jug along with a little more than 3/4s another (including emptying the filter), so that's about right on for the right amount of engine oil capacity.

zonie77
01-23-06, 12:26 AM
If it was different weight oils, wouldn't they seperate anyways?

No, oil is made up of a lot of different chemicals and they don't seperate once they are mixed.


Yah, it did make a horrible noise before it died, made me cringe...heh. And if I did pierce the cooling jacket and put coolant into the engine oil, wouldn't it be a whiteish and frothy instead of it being a clean seperation between the two?
No, I just changed intake gaskets on my Blazer. Leaking coolant into the oil. It was pretty much seperated like you describe.


One more thing...wouldn't I be empyting out more then roughly 7.5 quarts of fluid, which is the usual amount of engine oil? I filled up an entire one gallon jug along with a little more than 3/4s another (including emptying the filter), so that's about right on for the right amount of engine oil capacity.

If it uses some oil it may have just wound up close with some coolant mixed in.

I think you have to do a cyl pressure test. It may be head gaskets at the root of the problem. I'd try running it with fresh oil and see how it sounds/runs.

eldorado1
01-23-06, 01:16 AM
And if I did pierce the cooling jacket and put coolant into the engine oil, wouldn't it be a whiteish and frothy instead of it being a clean seperation between the two? One more thing...wouldn't I be empyting out more then roughly 7.5 quarts of fluid, which is the usual amount of engine oil? I filled up an entire one gallon jug along with a little more than 3/4s another (including emptying the filter), so that's about right on for the right amount of engine oil capacity.

Normally, yes. Give it enough time and it will separate out though.

I think a northstar draining 7.5 quarts of oil is an indication something is wrong. :D (Usually I'm down a quart or two)

Harry Yarnell
01-23-06, 06:59 PM
If you mix ATF with engine oil, it will NOT seperate.

Ranger
01-23-06, 07:02 PM
Tranny fluid is oil. It will mix with engine oil and you won't see any difference. If the two are seperated as you say, it has to be coolant.

zonie77
01-23-06, 08:07 PM
Harry, Did you get to Tucson?

Harry Yarnell
01-23-06, 09:19 PM
Yes, got back last night. Same weather as we're having here in Maryland.

Tommy Deville
01-23-06, 09:21 PM
ok a few things here that I need to comment on................
1. the fact the guy gave you 2gs was a nice gesture.
2. Ive been told ny numerous people that the N* is a "throw away motor", well, if thats the case y r there so many of em around? they all cant b coming from wrecks. Some one has to be rebuilding them.
3. 4 grand
is a "rough est, I would expect to pay more i payed close to 5Gs after all was said and done
4. From what I understand N* dont dump coolant into the oil....which Im not sure why they wont, but im not a mechanic. But I agree the thin liquid could be the sign of a head gasket costing $2500 to $3500. Either way u r still laying money out. Myself personally I recall the day i drove my auora off the lot and the service engine light came on and speedometer stoped working I had 48 hours to bring the car back. i thought about it and hind sight is 20/20 but I had the feeling maybe I should and did not. Funny story the day i got the car
i was at my friends house and he was looking at the car and in the front passenger pocket he found a lil piece of paper that had a note written on it and it said "THE WORST MISTAKE OF YOUR LIFE" WE LAUGHED BUT IT GOT ME THINKING AND FREAKED US OUT. I should have given back the car..& so should you.

zonie77
01-23-06, 10:19 PM
Tommy Deville, N*'s can put coolant in the oil but the way they are designed, limited oil to the heads and return passages away from the cyls, the head gasket has to get REAL bad to do it. Initially they loose coolant to the cyl, not to the crankcase.

If you look at a pic of a N* you'll see it's laid out a little differently than an older block.

Harry Yarnell has one that he bought with coolant in the oil but he doesn't know how long it was driven with bad gaskets to do that. I'd say a long while.

Harry Yarnell
01-23-06, 10:32 PM
What is the typical gap in the headgasket when the headgasket goes? In mine, the gap was about 3/4" in TWO cylinders.

zonie77
01-23-06, 10:51 PM
What do you mean gap? We saw an area of the firering that didn't have the same compression and showed rust on one side. It was hard to see but I'd say less than 1/2''. There were spots on 2 cyls like this.

Did you see something worse than that? Got any pics?

Odin8
01-23-06, 10:58 PM
Hm ok, more updates. The pink stuff IS coolant...I got bored and decided to taste it. Gotta try everything in life at least once right...well, actually, this was probably the third of fourth time...it's just so sweet...

I still don't see how it could be a headgasket though, seeing as how the engine wasn't overheating AT ALL, and the engine died after horrible knocking, which was all pretty abrupt.d

Car got picked up by a shop today. The owner has an STS and works on them all the time, my dad's mechanic recommended him for it. They told me if I OK an engine tomorrow, I'll have the car for Friday...the engine that the guy was suggesting was one with 90k miles, for 1700 + another 400 for a two year warranty. He said all buttoned up, handing me the keys and all, on Friday it'll be 31xx. He's looking for one with less miles said it'd be more in the 3500 range, but if he can't find one, I'm going to go with the 90k mile one. That's where it stands right now...whaddya guys think?

zonie77
01-23-06, 11:00 PM
After I posted the prev I found this pic (in the link). Maybe they were worse than I thought.? The head side was worse than the block side. I pulled the gaskets off the head awhile after pulling them off (job was spread over a couple of months) so I don't know if the corrosion got worse setting on the garage floor. The pic on this thread was the head side.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5052

auroradude
01-23-06, 11:23 PM
Make damn sure there is a complete service history on that 90k engine. Otherwise you damn well may have another ruptured ass lining.

Can you afford $7500 for a new Jasper engine? They arent rebuilt, they are remanufactured. Personally I would never get a "Rebuilt" Northstar.

eldorado1
01-23-06, 11:37 PM
The pink stuff IS coolant...I got bored and decided to taste it.

:D

A little bit won't kill you, but an ounce or two might... Just you know, FYI.



I still don't see how it could be a headgasket though, seeing as how the engine wasn't overheating AT ALL, and the engine died after horrible knocking, which was all pretty abrupt.d

Like I said before, you probably threw a rod and punctured the cooling jacket. Normally you'd see bits of metal in the oil though, so I'm at a loss there.

For the engine, it sounds like a reasonable price to me. $3100 ain't bad at all for a 90k mile engine installed.

Odin8
01-23-06, 11:40 PM
Yah, He's gonna get the VIN for me and I'm going to CARFAX it and run to a local caddy dealership to have them look it up.

I was looking at putting a remanned Jasper in it...If I HAD to get the money, I could, but it'd hurt a bit...I just don't see why I'd want to pay another 4 grand, for a total of 7200, to put a remanned engine in an almost 10 year old car. It'd be nice, sure, but would the extra 4 grand be justifiable if I could find a solid used motor?

Odin8
01-24-06, 06:52 PM
Well, the deal is done. He got me the VIN today, I looked up the CARFAX and went to the dealer and I found out the coolant system was flushed and refilled twice, at the right times. I gave a deposit of 2100 today on the engine + a 2 year warranty on it. Come Friday ( Monday at the latest), I have to pay the remaining balance for a total of 3159 and I'm driving home in my caddy.

AlBundy
01-24-06, 10:22 PM
Seems like a good deal to me so I hope it works out for you.

RLLOVETT
01-25-06, 01:30 AM
Sorry to hear your story--sounds like you're on the right track to have a good driver, though. Just a couple of things: Since I live in MA I'd be curious to know who you found to work on this car--Precision in Watertown did a great job on my head gaskets but they swore never again and I'm always looking for backup; recommend you bite the bullet and have them replace anything (that remotely needs replacing) that's hard to get to like bottom motor mounts, heater core, inner front suspension parts, etc. since it's just the cost of parts once the motor is out.
Last but not least, for those that don't reside in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, we have a great lemon law that imposes a 30 day 'warranty' on ANY seller (value must be above a certain #, like $1k). It means that major system failure within 30 days falls back on the seller, at least partially, as Odin8 found out. Happy driving, it's a great ride!

CadiJeff
01-25-06, 02:45 AM
odin8 if you can find out I'm curious what the failure was please post if you find out

Tommy Deville
01-25-06, 06:35 AM
hope it works out.keep us posted how it runs when u get it back

Harry Yarnell
01-25-06, 01:08 PM
Here's a picture of blown gasket on my '97 DEVILLE.Not sure this will 'take'.17114

zonie77
01-25-06, 01:41 PM
WOW! Those are WAY worse than the one's I pulled off. I agree that those would be mixing coolant with the oil. Some one drove that a long time with those burned out. Were the heads/block OK?

Harry Yarnell
01-25-06, 04:00 PM
As I mentioned the PO had dumped a ton of sealant in the coolant, and EVERYTHING was clogged. Except the headgasket.
The machine shop checked everything for straightness; the block was OK, but the heads took some shaving.

turbojimmy
01-25-06, 04:20 PM
They arent rebuilt, they are remanufactured.

What's the difference?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Sounds more like a marketing differentiation rather than a real one. By their definition my rebuilt GN engine is actually 'remanufactured'.

Jim

Tombo47
01-25-06, 05:44 PM
i cant believe the a$$hole before put reg gas in it. Unless its a '00 or later thats not a good idea at all. My engine is configured to sue reg gas and i scolded the previous owner for putting it in, haha. Prem only for me.

M.A.C
01-26-06, 11:54 AM
You'll be in for more than $2k if the engine needs replaced but $2k 'cash back' on a used car is an excellent deal. In NJ you'd be screwed if it was sold private property or via a dealer (dealers have to specify that it's "As-is; No Warranty).

Jim

Actually Jim, that's not totally correct. In NJ there’s also a Lemon Law that protects consumers that purchase from car dealers. The law states, to my recollection, that dealers are obligated to fix drivetrain and suspension, etc. defects within the first 1000 miles or 30-days, whichever comes first. Also, dealers must guarantee the vehicle will pass inspection. Even if a dealer states a particular car is being sold "as is", the dealer can still be held liable for repairs. See below:

Price v. S&S Auto Sales, Inc.
A-3398-97T2 (N.J. Super. App. Div. 1999) (Unpublished)
March 10, 1999

AUTOMOBILES; AS-IS; WARRANTIES—The purchase of a used car sold “as-is” without warranty can be rescinded if the vehicle is replete with defects.

A buyer purchased a used car, clearly marked as being sold “as is” without warranty. The battery failed on the day of purchase. Within two days, it was discovered that the brakes, the carburetor, the radiator, and the master brake cylinder were defective and required repair or replacement. The buyer attempted to return the car to the dealer within the two days, but the dealer refused to take the car back. The lower court, with the Appellate Division’s affirmance, set aside the contract even though the car was sold without warranty. It was “understandably disturbed with the extent of the repairs that were needed to be made and the fitness of the vehicle,” and concluded that there was “not a meeting of the minds” because of “overreaching.”

turbojimmy
01-26-06, 12:02 PM
Actually Jim, that's not totally correct. In NJ there’s also a Lemon Law that protects consumers that purchase from car dealers.

That's good to know. I thought the "Lemon Law" applied only to new cars. Thanks for the info!

Jim

Odin8
01-26-06, 01:08 PM
Autopedia.com has a pretty a pretty good summary of all the states different new and used car lemon laws. That's where I originally looked to see what I could do, and after talking to my lawyer he affirmed that the laws for RI and MA were accurate.

Possibly a day until my caddy is done, gonna call the shop today and figure out what's up...I can't wait to rip the sack out of it. :devil:

94greencaddysls
01-26-06, 02:06 PM
If I were you I would check the radiator of your car. Coolant could mix with the oil through the oil cooler which is located inside the radiator.

mtflight
01-30-06, 06:51 PM
If I were you I would check the radiator of your car. Coolant could mix with the oil through the oil cooler which is located inside the radiator.

I second the motion. Transmission fluid can also get coolant in it this way. Why did they make those tanks out of plastic?

Odin8
01-30-06, 07:15 PM
Grr. So the shop calls me today, tells me the engine they picked up was shit after they tested it a few more times, and they're going to find me another one...more time wasted. I'm becoming irritated now. Guess it's better they're testing it good now though.

As for the whole oil cooler thing...are we talking motor oil cooler inside the radiator or transmission cooler inside the radiator?

mtflight
01-30-06, 07:24 PM
As for the whole oil cooler thing...are we talking motor oil cooler inside the radiator or transmission cooler inside the radiator?

The full radiator has the oil cooler on the passenger side, and the trans cooler on the driver side. They are built into the radiator, made out of plastic, and may crack (internally or externally) with age.

I've heard of trannies being destroyed by coolant this way.

Odin8
01-30-06, 07:35 PM
Interesting. I'm definately going to tell them to check that out too. Hope my tranny is fine, or otherwise :fan:.

auroradude
01-30-06, 07:45 PM
Thats a good reason to replace oil cooler and the other lines mentioned above every 10k miles or so. Personally I do it every year along with a complete drain of every fluid (brake, coolant, trans etc) cant go wrong that way ;)

94greencaddysls
01-31-06, 07:08 PM
The problem isnt from the lines it is from corrosion or breaking of the lines. I would think taking the radiator out and replacing the cooler or any of the lines every 10k is overboard. As well as doing all the fluids mentioned every year. I have heard of a northstar motor being fried from coolant mixing with oil. But when they pulled the tank cap you could tell there was oil present. But just like the heater cores in these cars I am not sure why the end tanks are plastic? It may save on cost or something like that. The plastic of my heater core cracked when removing the hoses so I replaced it with an all metal design but could not find an all aluminum radiator without plastic tanks anywhere.

Tommy Deville
02-01-06, 04:18 AM
pATEINCE MY FRIEND, LET THE SHOP DO THERE JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME SO U WILL NEVER HAVE TO SEE THEM AGAIN

Odin8
02-01-06, 09:44 PM
Yah...I'm trying to be patient...I just want to drive my caddy...:crying2:

It'll be done tomorrow, shop called me today and told me...don't have any of the details though, they said they'd fill me in tomorrow. I can't wait...I'll make sure to fill you guys in once I break her in. :burn:

CadillacSTS42005
02-01-06, 11:08 PM
damn man i kno this may be too late but i was lookin on ebay and found this complete vin 9 motor (sts and etc) with tranny computer and all wireing for buy it now of 900!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Northstar-96-STS-Fiero-Dune-Buggy-Rod_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQitemZ8034670 578QQrdZ1

Odin8
02-04-06, 03:49 AM
Alright. Well guys. Here goes.

Apparently, one of the pistons seperated in half, the top half went up to destroy my valvetrain and almost made it through the head, and the bottom half of it fell into the sump. From there, the bottom half of it got kicked back up, through the adjoining piston wall, then up through the block right over the crank. It was pretty impressive looking, I could fit my fist in the hole above the crank shaft. Lots of metal pieces everywhere, and a good chunk of piston about say, half the size of my fist.

As for the reason...they're telling me it's because my EBTCM failed. That was the reason my traction control light was on...go figure. They looked at it and said it seemed to be burnt out for quite some time, so the previous owner must have drove it like that for a while. Which made sense, when I first looked at the car and asked the guy about the light, he said it came on a month or two before and never had it looked at. Now...what the EBTCM does, or so they've told me, is control the rev limiter in some aspect...and since it was fried, if the previous owner did some WOT and expected it to shift at redline, it wouldn't, and it kept going. So basically the engine failed from being over revved. He probably cracked the piston sometime in his travels and when I was on my 40 mile trip home, I did enough to finish it off.

They put in the new engine, which I might add runs beautifully, I lucked out. It has under 100K miles, (I dunno where I put the paper, and I forgot the exact mileage) , compression/leak down tested perfect, and they replaced the intake, exhaust and oil pan gaskets, and it has the recall fuel rail...I think I should be all set for now, *knock on wood*. 2 year warranty on the engine and labor too if things don't go according to plan. I'm going back Monday for them to put in a new EBTCM, and the car should be done and perfect after that.

It rides like a boat, I'm limited to 90 MPH because all the traction stuff is disengaged, and I haven't even come close to WOT until I get the new computer in, but I'm loving it, and life is good. :cloud9:

More to come once the EBTCM is in...

turbojimmy
02-04-06, 07:42 AM
Sounds like pretty spectacular damage. No wonder it wouldn't start.

I doubt the EBTCM had anything to do with it, but it sounds like it needs replaced anyway. The EBCM doesn't really provide rev limiting functionality - the PCM does it at the EBCM's request. The EBCM calls for reduced power under certain circumstances (low traction) but wouldn't be responsible for WOT rev limiting or transmission shift points.

However, if it wasn't 'over revved', I'd be curious as to how a piston came apart on a Northstar. While a totally different animal, we had one fail on a 5.0L Ford engine. It was a salvage car whose engine had seized during the reconstruction. It was freed up using the gorilla method (big bar on the crank pulley). Evidently a piston cracked and failed a few thousand miles later in a similarly spectacular manner.

Jim

eldorado1
02-04-06, 11:49 AM
If northstars are overreved, they fail at the lifters. Somebody needs to tell those guys that the bottom end is safe to 7500rpm, and spurts to 8500rpm.

Has anyone inspected it to see if the rod is still connected to the crank?

Tommy Deville
02-04-06, 11:33 PM
Damm northstars

Odin8
02-08-06, 12:07 PM
Life is good. They replaced the EBTCM, and that did the trick. All my warning lights are off, car runs excellent, shifts well, the ride is great, and everything works the way it's supposed to...damn...this car goes like a raped ape...:cloud9:

Yes, the rod was still connected to the crank.

I also had P0404, so they pulled the EGR valve off and cleaned it, along with the hoses connected to it. They also installed something called a carbon trap gasket? They told me it should keep the problem from ever happening again...opinions on this? I know nothing about it.

I'm working on re-sealing my trunk now, and it also takes a while to crank over...which from reading up, I think is the FPR, which I'm going to check this afternoon. Other then that, I've gone over the car completely and scrutinized everything, and that's all I can find for quirks. I'm very happy. Only thing I can think of doing soon for maintenance is replacing the tranny fluid, because I'm almost to 100k. I have to drop the lower pan, then a side pan to get most of the fluid, correct? And that's something I can do without lowering the tranny?

Oh, and thanks for the help guys, I'm going to put this baby into pristine condition.

turbojimmy
02-08-06, 12:30 PM
I have to drop the lower pan, then a side pan to get most of the fluid, correct? And that's something I can do without lowering the tranny?

The side cover can't be removed with the trans in the car. When you drop the lower pan, there will be a little plug near one of the solenoid wires that you take out to drain the side cover. If memory serves it's at the front, left of the trans (viewed as if you were sitting in the driver's seat).

I got relatively little fluid out of mine after removing the pan and the drain plug so I did a budget purge using some advice I found here. I unhooked the top hose and let it pump the fluid out into a 5 gallon bucket as I added fresh stuff. It's the only way to completely change all of the fluid out.

Jim

mtflight
02-08-06, 01:25 PM
The side cover can't be removed with the trans in the car. When you drop the lower pan, there will be a little plug near one of the solenoid wires that you take out to drain the side cover. If memory serves it's at the front, left of the trans (viewed as if you were sitting in the driver's seat).

I got relatively little fluid out of mine after removing the pan and the drain plug so I did a budget purge using some advice I found here. I unhooked the top hose and let it pump the fluid out into a 5 gallon bucket as I added fresh stuff. It's the only way to completely change all of the fluid out.

Jim

I just replaced the fluid using the same method. Except, it was the bottom line that I unplugged (by the lower radiator hose). To get to it I had to take out the driver's side cooling fan. So I guess you unplugged the top line from the transmission? That makes more sense LOL. I bet the line is longer and thus easier to work with. I got a clear vinyl hose at Home depot, and connected it to the line.

Poured the brown/dark transmission fluid out as I poured new Dexron VI in, and stopped the engine when the fluid started coming out bright red.

turbojimmy
02-08-06, 03:49 PM
I just replaced the fluid using the same method. Except, it was the bottom line that I unplugged (by the lower radiator hose). To get to it I had to take out the driver's side cooling fan. So I guess you unplugged the top line from the transmission?

It's been a while (over a year now) but I thought I removed the upper cooler hose from the radiator. Maybe not? I definitely did not have to take the fan out. I don't think I had to take anything out other than the plastic cover over the rad support.

Jim

mtflight
02-08-06, 03:55 PM
It's been a while (over a year now) but I thought I removed the upper cooler hose from the radiator. Maybe not? I definitely did not have to take the fan out. I don't think I had to take anything out other than the plastic cover over the rad support.

Jim

Hmmm... the bottom line flows out of the transmission, while the top one flows in.

There may simply be more clearance in a Deville, than in the Eldo.

-Alex

turbojimmy
02-08-06, 04:13 PM
Hmmm... the bottom line flows out of the transmission, while the top one flows in.

There may simply be more clearance in a Deville, than in the Eldo.

-Alex

That's true, but I put a brass fitting (thread on one side, nipple on the other) in the top of the cooler and hooked up a long plastic tube to it and let it pump into a bucket.

Jim

mtflight
02-08-06, 04:17 PM
That's true, but I put a brass fitting (thread on one side, nipple on the other) in the top of the cooler and hooked up a long plastic tube to it and let it pump into a bucket.

Jim

Bingo! Sounds like you had the better method. What size fitting fit there?

turbojimmy
02-08-06, 04:28 PM
Bingo! Sounds like you had the better method. What size fitting fit there?

It was 1/2". It was a flare fitting that you cut the flare off of. There's a thread, with a picture, here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29512&page=2&highlight=transmission+fluid

Jim

Tommy Deville
02-08-06, 09:30 PM
The side cover can't be removed with the trans in the car. When you drop the lower pan, there will be a little plug near one of the solenoid wires that you take out to drain the side cover. If memory serves it's at the front, left of the trans (viewed as if you were sitting in the driver's seat).

I got relatively little fluid out of mine after removing the pan and the drain plug so I did a budget purge using some advice I found here. I unhooked the top hose and let it pump the fluid out into a 5 gallon bucket as I added fresh stuff. It's the only way to completely change all of the fluid out.

Jim

Actually the best way to change the fliud ou completly is have the fan cut a hole in the trans line and it will all leak out, than u have your mechanic replace the line :thumbsup:

Tommy Deville
02-08-06, 09:34 PM
[quote=Odin8]Life is good. They replaced the EBTCM, and that did the trick. All my warning lights are off, car runs excellent, shifts well, the ride is great, and everything works the way it's supposed to...damn...this car goes like a raped ape...:cloud9:



Yo brother man, Im very happy too hear that you got your ride back, Take good care of her, Btw what was the final cost over all, and your out of pocket expense.

Keep on posting!:thumbsup:

Odin8
02-08-06, 11:46 PM
Well. Summary time.

I paid 5 for the car. The guy gave me 2 back when the engine blew up. After the complete motor swap, new EBTCM, EGR valve and FPR, it came out to 3627. The engine they put in had 93xxx miles on it. The car needs some minor touch ups, cause I'm anal. ( scratch on the driver's side door, scuff on the rear bumper, and some new weatherstripping ) That'll be about 300ish. So I figure I'm into the car for right about 7 grand. 7 grand for a mint caddy, strong engine, pristine interior/exterior. I'm real happy. :woohoo:


Figure another 400 for window tint all the way around and a stereo install ( I have the stereo already, from my previous car), and I'll have her decked out to where I want it for the time being. :cool2:

Oh and fellas...She's already been christened. The g/f likes the leather. :thumbsup:

CadillacSTS42005
02-09-06, 12:06 AM
ha ha ha dude me and my gurl love the heated seats, the sunroof, the hood the backseats etc etc etc etc rofl Elaine (thats my ETCs name) is a dirty dirty whore no matter how much i wash her

cl1986
02-13-06, 08:14 PM
All casual sales(owner to owner) are "as is". Unless you have a specific written warranty statement from the owner you are SOL.

Wrong, any major purchase over $1000.00 is subject to the 3-day rule. Enforcing it from person to person may be tough, but lieing and/or not telling the truth about the vehicle can be fought and won.

Any major problems like over $1000.00 in damage can be given back to seller and money must be returned to buyer, unless such stuff is noted when buying.

STS al UK
02-16-06, 11:24 PM
I've read this thread from the start and I'm glad to hear you got a good result in the end, as for getting cash back when you have been done wrong... at least you aint been dealing with the main GM dealer because over here in the UK you have no chance... update on STS tranny trouble thread.
I am gonna name and shame em any day soon cos they ripped me off :ripped:

Tommy Deville
02-16-06, 11:37 PM
Its been two weeks, hows it been going??

Odin8
02-16-06, 11:47 PM
It's been going great. I've been hauling balls in style. I do need to give her a bath though, and armor-all the back seat...heh.

Had my first 1000 mile oil change, went smoothly, they said everything checked out well. Today while driving the DIC came up with a message that said "A/C Compressor off, low refrigerant." That's kinda bugging me, I'm trying to be optimistic and think it just needs a recharge, but I'm probably looking at something else expensive. :helpless:

Still working on the stereo, I have my deck physically installed, but I have to get the intiative someday to re-wire it all and set stuff up. Tweeter wanted 800 to do it, screw them.

All around, I'm happy. Life is good. I got a caddy. :thumbsup:

CadillacSTS42005
02-17-06, 02:00 AM
damn 800 lol best buy wouldnt even rape u that much

Tommy Deville
02-17-06, 04:32 AM
nring your car back and tell them about the A/C its under warrenty so they gotta fix/ charge it they will probaly tell u to bting it back in the spring. but at least they know.

STS 310
02-17-06, 09:06 PM
It's been going great. I've been hauling balls in style. I do need to give her a bath though, and armor-all the back seat...heh.

Resist the urge to Armour All your seats. There are far better products that silicone based products.

mtflight
02-17-06, 11:01 PM
Resist the urge to Armour All your seats. There are far better products that silicone based products.

Agreed. Instead get some leather cleaner--Luxol seems to be a favorite. Get a few clean hand towels... a bucket with a little warm water... wet the hand towel, ring it, spray the leather cleaner on the hand towel, and lather away. You can use a soft brush in the stitches.

Then dry the seat with another hand towel. Get another clean hand towel, wet it in the warm water, ring it so it's moist, and spray the leather conditioner onto the moist hand towel. Now, "moisturize" your leather.

Wait a few minutes or hours until it dries, and buff it with yet another clean hand towel. Wow, the smell and touch and longevity of your leather will be worth the little bit of elbow grease.

Zorb750
02-18-06, 07:50 AM
Armor All leather cleaner should be ok I think, do NOT use Armor All protectant on leather. Armor All used to specifically warn against it on the package.

lamistar
02-21-06, 03:47 AM
It might not be the engine at all- I cracked the flywheel on my 93 Eldo and it sounded just like something let loose inside the engine. Engine still cranked but not enough to start the car. Broken flywheel/messed up tranny is cheaper than a new engine. Good luck!!

Zorb750
02-25-06, 09:03 AM
It was the engine on his.

1993 eldorado green1
03-18-06, 12:53 PM
sounds to me like either he was getting some bs from the shop or something, remember he said that he drained all the oil and it was perfectly clean except for the trans fluid? and he even cut open the filter and it was normal right?

then all the sudden this shop tells him that the motor was blown to pieces... where? there would have been tons of sh** in that oil/filter if that was the case, especially if the cracked piston had been like that for awhile.

and the rev limiter in the ebtm? last i knew it was in the pcm unless they changed something, well i guess if hes happy then thats all that matters but it just seemed odd to me thats all....

Tommy Deville
03-18-06, 02:28 PM
who knows

clarkz71
03-18-06, 07:55 PM
I believe he was shown the broken piston and damaged block.

Odin8
03-19-06, 12:32 PM
Yah the oil was clean, but what I originally thought was trans fluid was actually Dexcool, the coolant. I cut the filter open as well, and it was clean, so dunno there. I was also shown the engine...I actually have a chunk of piston sitting in my glovebox as a souvenir, and I was able to fit my hand through a hole in the block.

Zorb750
03-19-06, 07:45 PM
Should have taken the broken engine and parked it in the parking lot at the Willow Run of Livonia GM plant. That's where they were made. Either that, or have you noticed the prices of scrap metal lately? $400/ton for some!

Loose screw
03-20-06, 03:20 AM
One possiblity that is not frquently mentioned (but I don't think it is your problem) is a AC compressor that freezes up. You will be able to crank the engine and even start it for a few seconds before the AC clutch engages and brings everthing to a sudden stop. You can test this by disconnecting the AC clutch wires or turn off the AC and the defrost.