This will be a flame message, so don't read on if you do not want to. :bomb: Time to explode!

I just got back from my arbitration with BBB and GM. That was a very interesting arbitration and I am quite upset at GM. First of all, lets talk about my differential whine that I had earlier. Supposedly the GM rep claims that the differential whine is a common characteristic of the vehicle, because the car he drove for 3 months had one too. His car was a lemon, so all of ours is as well! I went to Coast Cadillac and Penske Cadillac and both of them had the GM rep come out(Same guy...Larry) and he claimed it was a normal characteristic and no repairs were to be attempted. I then went to Whittier cadillac, where that damn GM rep doesnt go to, and they replaced my differential. Well that problem was solved but my problem with the shifting is still not resolved. I have not been able to shift from nuetral to first for a while now, and recently have started grinding in 3rd and cannot shift at all into 4th unless I double clutch or grind it in there! Also had a marble noise from exhaust, which is my muffler and whittier cadillac has ordered to try to solve it. WHittier cadillac knows there is a problem with my tranny, but dont know what it is. Anyways, at the BBB meeting today, GM on the phone states that Whittier cadillac should not be reimbursed for the differential and that the dealership should have to eat the cost.
More upsetting than my problems right now is the fact Whittier Cadillac has to suffer. I finally thought I found a dealership where I was treated properly, and GM has to screw that over too. They claim..."The whine from the rear of the car is a characteristic of the Cadillac CTS-V, and is common with all performance cars." "Not being able to shift from nuetral to first is also a common characteristic of ALL manual cars. Grinding into 3rd is also common with the vehicle and due to the fuel economy, shifting into 4th from any gear is difficult" Then he goes and asks me, have you ever driven a manual car before? STUPID GM asks me that question! If I never drove a manual, what the hell would I be doing with a 6 speed tranny????

I have seriously had it with GM. Im not going to be quiet about this one...I worked hard to save that money to buy my car...and as everyone else, I expect decent service and a proper car! I wouldnt mind GM saying that they will try to fix it or something, but saying its common and now we're going to screw u over with the dealership your car is currently at as well, really pisses me off.

So all you people that cannot shift into first from nuetral and grind into 3rd as well as have a rear end whine...good luck! I am about to go outside GM's main office, and just stand there with a sign saying..."DONT EVER BUY A GM...THE SERVICE IS CRAP!" And if I don't get a good decision from the BBB, I am straight out going to court for this bs.

And please dont get me wrong, I love this car...thats why I bought it! I hate GM and Cadillac Service! I'd rather pay the extra 30+ thousand and buy a BMW next time! It'll be cheaper and less stressful in the long run!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :bomb:

I’m sorry to here that… I don’t understand why they are being so unreasonable. It’s like they think their customers are purely stupid. GM really needs to address these issues internally or they will be subject to long-term effects.

This will be a flame message, so don't read on if you do not want to. :bomb: Time to explode!

I just got back from my arbitration with BBB and GM. That was a very interesting arbitration and I am quite upset at GM. First of all, lets talk about my differential whine that I had earlier. Supposedly the GM rep claims that the differential whine is a common characteristic of the vehicle, because the car he drove for 3 months had one too. His car was a lemon, so all of ours is as well! I went to Coast Cadillac and Penske Cadillac and both of them had the GM rep come out(Same guy...Larry) and he claimed it was a normal characteristic and no repairs were to be attempted. I then went to Whittier cadillac, where that damn GM rep doesnt go to, and they replaced my differential. Well that problem was solved but my problem with the shifting is still not resolved. I have not been able to shift from nuetral to first for a while now, and recently have started grinding in 3rd and cannot shift at all into 4th unless I double clutch or grind it in there! Also had a marble noise from exhaust, which is my muffler and whittier cadillac has ordered to try to solve it. WHittier cadillac knows there is a problem with my tranny, but dont know what it is. Anyways, at the BBB meeting today, GM on the phone states that Whittier cadillac should not be reimbursed for the differential and that the dealership should have to eat the cost.
More upsetting than my problems right now is the fact Whittier Cadillac has to suffer. I finally thought I found a dealership where I was treated properly, and GM has to screw that over too. They claim..."The whine from the rear of the car is a characteristic of the Cadillac CTS-V, and is common with all performance cars." "Not being able to shift from nuetral to first is also a common characteristic of ALL manual cars. Grinding into 3rd is also common with the vehicle and due to the fuel economy, shifting into 4th from any gear is difficult" Then he goes and asks me, have you ever driven a manual car before? STUPID GM asks me that question! If I never drove a manual, what the hell would I be doing with a 6 speed tranny????

I have seriously had it with GM. Im not going to be quiet about this one...I worked hard to save that money to buy my car...and as everyone else, I expect decent service and a proper car! I wouldnt mind GM saying that they will try to fix it or something, but saying its common and now we're going to screw u over with the dealership your car is currently at as well, really pisses me off.

So all you people that cannot shift into first from nuetral and grind into 3rd as well as have a rear end whine...good luck! I am about to go outside GM's main office, and just stand there with a sign saying..."DONT EVER BUY A GM...THE SERVICE IS CRAP!" And if I don't get a good decision from the BBB, I am straight out going to court for this bs.

And please dont get me wrong, I love this car...thats why I bought it! I hate GM and Cadillac Service! I'd rather pay the extra 30+ thousand and buy a BMW next time! It'll be cheaper and less stressful in the long run!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :bomb:

I had the same problem with shifting. I took it in the first time and there was a bad slave cylinder, replaced under warranty. The second time it was the same thing, but this time they told me I needed a new clutch as well (after 11K miles). I said "no prob", but then they told me I'd have to pay for the clutch and dual-mass flywheel. I argued for about 10 minutes with the service department manager, and then asked who I could go to over his head. He gave me the number to Cadillac Customer Service. I told them the problem, and they called the dealership. Within 30 minutes the called me back and stated they were taking care of it. It's almost impossible to get anything done on the dealership/regional level. Not saying it will work for all, but it worked for me that time.

Mark

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both of these problems (diff and trans) have been 'fixed' in the '06's. Not that you'd want trade cars, I assume you have an '05.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/t56-06.pdf

I am sorry to hear this, it saddens me to think GM would deny obvoius things like that.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but Markblink, that video of your car is hot!!

That sucks...I feel your pain!

Usually, the easier way to lemon a car is to use an attorney. Most states say that arbitration is an option, not a requirement, and the car companies would rather go to arbitration.

You're not alone, there are others invoking the LemonLaw....I'm staying quiet now.
-ace

Good luck. As I have mentioned to Ace before, I used to be a Cadillac Arbitration Rep ont he phone and we worked with the delears and zone reps like Larry. They make you some things like the rear end whine is a normal characteristic but I have it really bad and know it's not. It depends on everyones situation but you just need to know the lemon law and do you best to meet it. From the dealer names you mentioned I would bet you are either in FL or CA and if you are in CA it is pretty easy to meet the Lemon Law. My job was to evaluate the lemon law with what issues you had, what repairs were made and it help the customer with repairs, trade in to a new Caddy, Certificate towards a new GM, GMPP Ext. Warranty, or refund the money minus usage based on miles.
I lost a couple crappy cases but won most. Usually things worked out pretty good before Arbitration but like Ace said, you can just get a lawyer easily depending on your states requirements.
PM me if you want to chat a bit as I would be glad to call you. I hope Ace will tell you he is a bit better prepared if he wants to pursue it.
BTW, just because GM says it's normal doesn't mean the arbitrator will buy that crap. I just thought it would be helpful to bring along another a 3-4 yr or newer 6sp V8 car that doesn't have these issues for the arbitrator to drive in with your V like a sports car (preferrably a GM car) and say this is a load of crap my $53K car operates like this. It's sad many have the same issues.

From that job I concluded any make including Toyota, BMW, Merc, Lexus, Saturn, Ford, etc.... and have Lemons for some reason but many vehicles are fine. With all our issues I still believe the guys that say they don't have any issues.
I had three Olds Bravadas while my dad had Trailblazers and they were at the dealer probably 12-17 in 2yrs. My V has been there about 7-8x and I just don't want to do back even though my rear has many issues.
My dad retired from GM and I love their products. I work for Ford as a contract employee and they don't like seeing my GM but too bad. Money talks and I get better pricing with GM and that's great. I want to support them.
Anyone can PM if they wish for me to call them for any potential advice.
I think we all like to see how BBB negotiations and arbitrations have gone.
Good luck to all.
I'm interested in what CVP has to say as he is on that road again.

I'm really sorry to hear that Ishminder. Did they say anything about my letter? Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

You may want to point the arbitrator to this site. Many of us are having serious problems with the tranny and rear end just as you are. This is my third GM vehicle with a 6sp tranny and I have never had problems like this. I too am being told that grinding going into 5th is normal...do they think I am an idot! GM just replaced my diff because there was "excessive play" in it. Mine was wining so bad that I couldn't talk on my cell phone when I had my rear seat folded down (needed to fit my golf clubs). All I mostly do is drive back and forth from my office to home (around 4 miles each way). I don't hot rod, haven't tried to do burn outs, etc. GM is not handling these problems in the correct manner at all.

GM has some serious issues with this car and I am afraid many of us that are having problems may end up in court...I just hope it doesn't come to that.

You need to get the Corvette guys involved...

01-04 Z06 Corvettes have terrible trouble with synchronizers. GM can replace the 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 gear packs in those trannies pretty easily.

I had one done in my 01 C5 - 3-4, my friend has an 01 Z06 - I think it took 5 times and a new clutch before it was sorted out.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe both of these problems (diff and trans) have been 'fixed' in the '06's. Not that you'd want trade cars, I assume you have an '05.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/t56-06.pdf

I sure as shit hope so...

That being said, I wouldn't go into a hearing without a lawyer. It sucks to pay someone, but would be better in the long run...

As Ryan said, you need to have as much info as possible. There are magazine articles that explain that the V's wheel-hop is excessive, that they go through tires too fast, that the shifter is not normal. Those are magazine writers/drivers that test EVERY performance car known to man...they have a little more experience than the arbitrators and aren't trying to defend their employer, like the GM reps.
You also need to print all the posts about diff failures, whines, tranny problems, clunking, ect....this brings an arbitrator down a path that brings to light a recuring problem/problems, without making you sound like you're the "squeaky" wheel.
As of tomorrow, my V will be in the service center for 30 DAYS. That's 12.5% of its life as my vehicle. One in eight months. And all the issues have been driveline related...clunks, whines, broken halfshafts, broken trailing-arm bushings....it sucks, because I really do think this V can be the greatest vehicle I've ever owned, it'll just take another $6-8K to beef-up the driveline and remove all the Anti-NoiseVibrationHarshness engineering that GM designed into the car. I can't afford that, not on a vehicle that costs as much as this one does.

Should BBB come back with an unfavorable decision, go directly to a lawyer...a Lemon Law specialist(they are out there) and ask for help. They'd jump on something like this, especially if they know to the extent of the diff/clunk/tranny problems that we've experienced. It shouldn't cost you anything, as they will get reimbursed legal fees from GM. You have nothing to lose but the Lemon.

Good luck,
ace

Its alla damn shame, I know i was treated like crap when my diff blew apart. GM has along way to go to learn how you should treat guys and galls payin' 50 large for a car!!!!!

Even with a deal, doesn't matter! I had a chevy P/U , '97, it had over 100K on it the only prob I ever had was a tensioner pully, and an Alternator. I paid 18K.............................noise is normal, these frikkin a**holes!!!

LOVE THE V HATE THE CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Supposedly the GM rep claims that the differential whine is a common characteristic of the vehicle, because the car he drove for 3 months had one too...

I have not been able to shift from nuetral to first for a while now, and recently have started grinding in 3rd and cannot shift at all into 4th unless I double clutch or grind it in there...

They claim..."The whine from the rear of the car is a characteristic of the Cadillac CTS-V, and is common with all performance cars." "Not being able to shift from nuetral to first is also a common characteristic of ALL manual cars. Grinding into 3rd is also common with the vehicle and due to the fuel economy, shifting into 4th from any gear is difficult."

Ish,

Wut a dick! Hmmm... my car shifts fine from neutral to first, doesn't grind in third, shifts fine into fourth, and the diff doesn't whine. So according to this fine GM rep, I guess that means my car is... broken!!

Ish,

Wut a dick! Hmmm... my car shifts fine from neutral to first, doesn't grind in third, shifts fine into fourth, and the diff doesn't whine. So according to this fine GM rep, I guess that means my car is... broken!!
Guess I'm broke, too:lildevil:

Unfortunately, you are experiencing a problem that I've encountered with both GM and Ford. They try to excuse OBVIOUS defects in their cars by saying it's "normal" for that car. The problem is that just because something is "normal" for a specific model car/truck, that doesn't mean it's not a malfunction or something that should be fixed. This is the very reason the OEMs come out with "Service Bulletins" right? They are based on a malfunction or "condition" that appears at least semi-consistently in a particular model. The "Service Bulletin" is there to help alert the dealerships to conditions that the OEM deems obviously "normal" for that model but still reason for repair. The same could be said for "recalls". Are they not alerts that concern "normal" characteristics for a specific model vehicle? But in THIS case somebody has deemed this "normal" characteristic DANGEROUS and therefore a reason for taking immediate action. So in reality, the only difference between all these "normal" characteristics is whether the OEM decides that the "normal" characteristic is something THEY feel like fixing. If not, they expect the owners to just live with it.
So I don't accept it when a dealership or OEM tries to hide behind a diagnosis of something being a "normal characteristic" for a vehicle. The problem is what to do about it. In my experience, I have had FAR more of these run-ins with GM than with Ford and that is why I do not own any brand new GM vehicles anymore. I refuse to play their games and be held hostage by their warranty. It's absolutely the reason I dumped my '01 Denali before it was even 2 years old in favor of our Lincoln Aviator. The truck was beautiful, powerful, comfortable, and fun to drive but I could not put up with the constant trips to the dealership only to be told that either they couldn't find the problem or the problem was "normal" for that vehicle.
I wish I could give you some "magical" advise but I can't. Common sense just doesn't seem to prevail in these cases. I hope you manage to get satisfaction though.
Good luck.

Unfortunately, you are experiencing a problem that I've encountered with both GM and Ford. They try to excuse OBVIOUS defects in their cars by saying it's "normal" for that car. The problem is that just because something is "normal" for a specific model car/truck, that doesn't mean it's not a malfunction or something that should be fixed.

As much as I hate to say it, if the GM response is to write off these problems that consistently affect a large proportion of the V's (by labeling them as normal) in order to save the bucks on warranty repairs, the appropriate action is a class action lawsuit.

It seems like it can go one of two ways. GM will either make service bulletins to correct the most common issues (e.g., replace diff with '06 diff to fix whine, gear failure, or case cracking, etc); or they will make an effort to squash dealers that go out of their way to do the fixes under warranty (against the will of zone reps). Otherwise, the problem cars are going to funnel to a few "good" dealers who just fix the problems under warranty and make other dealers and GM zone guys look bad.

If that happens, the V owners in the group that are experiencing this "normal problems" will either forgo warranty covereage and pay for the fix themselves -- accepting the new "normal", or they sue their way out of the corner. GM can discount the testimonials on this site as a biased, nonrepresenative mix, or the hardcore group who breaks cars. A class action suit with a unified, broad response is a more effective tool for this type of fight. Yuck, I feel dirty even saying that.

Brian R.

You're probably right Brian. It's really a shame that things seem to go this way but I must admit, I've been VERY frustrated over the years by trying to "work things out" with the dealers and area reps. It just shouldn't be this way. When you buy a car or truck, you shouldn't have to constantly battle with the manufacturer over crap like this. The only experience I have with import vehicles has been with Toyota, Lexus, and Nissan. I have NOT had this adversarial type of experience with Toyota/Lexus but DID have one such experience with Nissan, which I DID eventually prevail in and got reimbursed from Nissan. Maybe this is one reason why customers are flocking to the imports?

Good points, fellas. Good points.

I picked-up my car today, after having it in for 4 days. The reasons were:
-difficulty shifting into 1st from neutral - above "normal" clunking from tranny/clutch area - coolant spray on my motor with resultant smell after every drive.

They had the car for 4 days.....nothing fixed. The clunk is "normal" as per the GM letter explaining "parade clunk". The tranny didn't give them any problems after driving for 1.5 miles (my oh my did they really test that one thoroughly!). The coolant must have been spillage from the water pump/thermostat TSB we did for "howling" two weeks ago (funny, I've checked my oil and cleaned my Corvette engine covers since then and there was no fluid on then).
I spoke with the Master Tech, BillyBob..who I actually like...good guy. He appologized to me for the issues and said that although Caddy says it's normal to clunk and shift rough, its not really OK with him. He understands my grief and suggested I write a letter to Caddy before I contact a lawyer, perhaps that'll result in something, ie. Extended Warrantee. I told him that if I needed to keep the car until the end of my 4 yr Smart-Buy, I'd just give it back...and NEVER look at another GM EVER. Funny, this is my first GM car...I have major buyer's remorse and mentally kick myself for not going foreign...I've had much better experiences before. (Hell, my last car..the MR2Spyder was autoxed for 4 years, and driven like an ANIMAL. I can't believe I never had an issue with that car. Oh, wait...I did...the rear O2 sensor failed 1month prior to lease return. Best car I ever owned...took a beating and kept asking for more.)

So that's it. I brought my service mgr a bottle of wine and my tech a bottle of Cliquot...sort of a thanks for putting up with me....and a "it was nice to know you" as I'll be contacting a Lemon Lawyer on Tuesday.

See, this was my 30th day in service in 8 months...12.5% of my car's ownership time has been in the shop. There's a problem with that. And a larger problem that the issues aren't dealt with properly. That's what really stings, they don't even fix it.

-ace