: Pictures of Turbo Project



MARK99STS
01-12-06, 12:50 PM
Ok guys,
here are some long awaited pics of the turbo project. More to follow as we progress. The performance guy doing this with me is a true artist as he wants this to be a show car as you can tell by the sanded and polished exhaust. We ground and sanded all the welds so it looks like one continuous pipe. All welds are stainless so no rust at all. When the front end is put back on, you will never know it has a turbo on it.


http://www.markonemtg.com/marks99sts/id3.html

eldorado1
01-12-06, 01:56 PM
More details on the burp valve plug?

What specs are the turbo?

Were you upgrading the fuel rail just to make it pretty, or what? The stock stainless rail is good for like 500+hp...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-12-06, 05:23 PM
Ohhhh this sounds enticing

A Turbo Northstar

mmmmmm!

Are you gonna do a BOV,BPV or a wastegate?

AlBundy
01-12-06, 08:17 PM
Wow a turbo-charged N* STS that looks like any other STS. Cool.

Tim99ws6
01-12-06, 08:35 PM
I'm unaware, but how much boost are you planning on running at this motor(Is the northstar forged internally stock?)? got any future plans for a inercooler? I assume you are getting pretty space limited since there isn't a intercooler in the piping setup.

The setup looks VERY well thought out as a whole! keep us updated!

STS 310
01-12-06, 10:20 PM
God, that is looking nice.

I wish Rob was here to add his 2 trillion cents........

Those that know what I am talking about can relate....

99 NS
01-13-06, 11:16 PM
More details on the burp valve plug?

What specs are the turbo?

Were you upgrading the fuel rail just to make it pretty, or what? The stock stainless rail is good for like 500+hp...


I popped out the blow off valve at the end of the intake and plugged it with a 3" plumbing test plug from ace hardware. It is a piece off rubber sandwiched between two pieces of metal and when you tighten it the rubber expands and seals tight.

The turbo is a 62:1 Tubonetics.

The fuel system on my car was the plastic tubes running from each injector so it needed to be replaced with rails for more capacity. I'm running 42lb injectors.


PS: I am also 99 NS

99 NS
01-13-06, 11:20 PM
I'm unaware, but how much boost are you planning on running at this motor(Is the northstar forged internally stock?)? got any future plans for a inercooler? I assume you are getting pretty space limited since there isn't a intercooler in the piping setup.

The setup looks VERY well thought out as a whole! keep us updated!


I'm going to run about 7lbs of boost and it will be intercooled.

eldorado1
01-14-06, 01:05 AM
I popped out the blow off valve at the end of the intake and plugged it with a 3" plumbing test plug from ace hardware. It is a piece off rubber sandwiched between two pieces of metal and when you tighten it the rubber expands and seals tight.

The turbo is a 62:1 Tubonetics.

The fuel system on my car was the plastic tubes running from each injector so it needed to be replaced with rails for more capacity. I'm running 42lb injectors.


PS: I am also 99 NS

That's right, because you wouldn't be under the recall, the fuel rail would've probably set you back more if you stuck with the GM part...

Your turbo is about "3 sizes too small". It would be running it completely off the compressor map. GT42 is about the minimum you'd want for 7psi. T60-1 is "okay", at least it's on the map, but you need to figure max efficiency at 1.5 P2/P1 and 50lb/min* for airflow.

*Assuming stock 6500rpm revlimit.

btw- good idea on the test plug! Now that's ingenuity! And it's removable!!

denscor
01-14-06, 12:03 PM
With the northstar having headgasket trouble, wouldn't putting a turbo on it make this worse? Headgaskets are normally the first to blown on a forced air mod this also would pull the bolts out of the block. Then what is max boost you could run? I love the idea of a turbo northstar don't get me wrong but would like to know this. I have more questions who is going to tune the car? Is the stock pump going to be able keep up? Has anyone seen the sts turbo system?(it put the turbo out back near the tail pipes). I'm thinking about trying this.:thumbsup:

nash8
01-16-06, 02:27 AM
Yeah i've checked out those sts turbo systems and was thinking about putting one on my car too. The numbers those turbo systems were puttin out on those Trans Ams and Camaros was disguisting. I emailed them and i believe they said it was only 4000 dollars for a universal kit. I believe that included all piping and you just have to find a shop to fab the flanges and connector pieces. You should try one of those kits though, if i can't be the first one it will be nice to see how much power they put down.

Props on the turbo kit 1999sts, set up looks real nice can't wait to see the finished project. The stock pistons and rods will be good up to about 7 lbs of boost maybe a little bit more. CHRF uses the stock pistons on their supercharger and twin turbo N* hot rod engines, the Trans Ams and Camaros run 7lbs of boost and up on the stock internals and their running over 10 compression. The only thing i was wondering is how your gonna control that fuel system, a/f ratio, and stuff like that, and if your going to build the head up? Looks good so far though if you have a full exhaust and some other mods you should be putting down some serious numbers. That thing is going to be a highway beast. You should be able to take down saleens, modded Cobras, camaros, and the new CTS-V:tisk: lol. Not dissing the CTS its a good car i just prefer the N*.

speedyman_2
01-16-06, 01:50 PM
This is great! Keep us updated. Hopefully I'll be able to do something like this soon!! Great Job so far!! Can't wait to see it running.

danbuc
01-16-06, 02:27 PM
With the northstar having headgasket trouble, wouldn't putting a turbo on it make this worse? Headgaskets are normally the first to blown on a forced air mod this also would pull the bolts out of the block. Then what is max boost you could run? I love the idea of a turbo northstar don't get me wrong but would like to know this. I have more questions who is going to tune the car? Is the stock pump going to be able keep up? Has anyone seen the sts turbo system?(it put the turbo out back near the tail pipes). I'm thinking about trying this.:thumbsup:

It's not cylinder pressure that causes the N* headgaskets to fail, it's corrosion. Mark has had his block timeserted anyway when he had the heads off I believe, so there should be no chance of them failing.

illumina
01-16-06, 03:21 PM
Mark, I like what you've done here. I am currently stalled on a 4.9 liter turbocharger project due to time issues, but I would like to know a few extra things like what you're using for extra fuel and such.

Anyways, good work :thumbsup:

denscor
01-17-06, 06:40 AM
It's not cylinder pressure that causes the N* headgaskets to fail, it's corrosion. Mark has had his block timeserted anyway when he had the heads off I believe, so there should be no chance of them failing.


Too much boost will blow head gaskets!! I was running 5 psi boost on my LS1 corvette with stock gaskets, changed pulley and went to 9 psi boost and between 5 and 7 blew.Headgaskets need to be MLS headgaskets. I know this from experience. Plus I seen it happen to others on the CF. LS1 runs 10.25 compression. Corrosion pulls the threads out?

auroradude
01-17-06, 11:37 AM
Mark, that is BEAUTIFUL! I cant wait to see what that baby looks like and runs like when it's done. Best of luck with everything and I sure as hell hope you dont blow the motor with after all this.

danbuc
01-17-06, 02:10 PM
Too much boost will blow head gaskets!! I was running 5 psi boost on my LS1 corvette with stock gaskets, changed pulley and went to 9 psi boost and between 5 and 7 blew.Headgaskets need to be MLS headgaskets. I know this from experience. Plus I seen it happen to others on the CF. LS1 runs 10.25 compression. Corrosion pulls the threads out?

Yes...TOO MUCh boost will blow the head gasket in any vehicle...even a top fuel dragster. That's not what you were implying by your question though. With Timeserts installed (which Mark has done) there should be no problem running 7psi of boost. It's corrosion that causes head gaskets to fail. It's soft alunimum and a somewhat poorly designed thread pitch on the head bolts, that makes the threads weak and pull out when removed. Actuall cyclinder pressure doesn't cause the N* headgaskets to fail, unless like you mentioned, you over boost the engine. I'm not sure why you would ever boost an engine without making sure the headbolts (or any other stressed part for that matter) could take it. In most boosted applications, it's recommended that you put stronger head bolts (or even studs) in place to prevent such a thing form happening. Looks like you loearned the hard way.

denscor
01-18-06, 06:24 AM
Boost = power So is too much boost like too much money or girl too pretty? LOL There is about 20 LS1 running 15-20 psi boost on stock headbolts and gaskets so 9 should have been ok,it was just my unlucky day.What I did find was GM went to MLS gasket in 2002 I used graphet for 2001 models because my car was a 2001. Yes I have ARP head studs put them in when did head and cam swap. In the future I will turbo the sts just getting ideas and watching to see what problems others have with the turbo.


Who will tune the car? Ed Wright told me he doesn't do the northstar no more! What is the fuel pump rated? Can you change it to a high volume high pressure one? If not it will go lean then bad things happen! Same with tuning!

danbuc
01-18-06, 06:33 AM
What is the fuel pump rated? Can you change it to a high volume high pressure one? If not it will go lean then bad things happen! Same with tuning!

Mark swapped out the fuel pump, for a better performing one, he also did extensive fuel rail modifications. Have you even looked at any of his posts,or his website?

MARK99STS
01-18-06, 09:27 AM
Yeah i've checked out those sts turbo systems and was thinking about putting one on my car too. The numbers those turbo systems were puttin out on those Trans Ams and Camaros was disguisting. I emailed them and i believe they said it was only 4000 dollars for a universal kit. I believe that included all piping and you just have to find a shop to fab the flanges and connector pieces. You should try one of those kits though, if i can't be the first one it will be nice to see how much power they put down.
I assume your talking about Squires turbo that is mounted in the rear. I talked to them and they will sell you the 'basic " package for a generic setup as they don't have a specific application for Cadillacs. This does not include any fuel modifications,ie: rails, injectors, plugs, higher flow pump, adjustable pressure regulator, lines and fittings. Also not included is the piggyback computer system you will need to control the fuel. You will also need a bigger MAF as the stock one will max out because of the increased air flow from the turbo.
I think some negatives of their system are:
1) the air intake is under the car & subject to water and dirt no matter what they say.
2) you need an oil pump for the return line to get it back from the turbo to the pan. If it fails for any
reason, your hosed. Most systems are gravity return.
3) The MAF has to go on the inducer(intake) side of the turbo as most are on the pressure side. This is called a draw thru vs. a blow thru. This is necessary on our cars because there are no fuel tables we can use like LS1 edit or other after market programs use when the MAF maxes out. If the MAF is on the pressure side it will max out and you have no way to control the fuel and then your screwed. How would you put the MAF at the intake of the turbo and run wiring to it??
4) They claim no turbo lag. I would think theirs would have more lag given the distance of the pressure piping and not knowing the specifics of our cars.
I'm sure there are a list of other things that I forgot, but these are the basics.
The biggest and most important thing is to find someone to put all this together for you who understands the computer and the piggyback and is familiar with the specific application for a cadillac.
What my guy and I have determined is that there is no way that this could be done as a kit that could be sold and the average person hook up due to the uniqueness and specific problems our cars present. And this is just for 98-99 as I assume other years have other issues that mine does or does not have. Some things could be universal, but many others would be very specific to that year of car.
Regarding the cost, it is still to early as I have been doing half the work with him using his knowledge so I don't know exactly what he would charge for the complete setup as we have not determined that yet but I guess it would be in the neighborhood of 10,000+ for all parts and labor, including tuning and dyno testing. Just a guess right now.
Keep in mind that you could save by not going all stainless and go with hard lines instead of AN lines and fittings.

denscor
01-18-06, 01:16 PM
Mark swapped out the fuel pump, for a better performing one, he also did extensive fuel rail modifications. Have you even looked at any of his posts,or his website?


Yes I have seen his website and read the post, thanks for asking! The question is what type of fuel pump! Better performing one is not an answer! Were the injectors changed if so what type? Explain how corrosion can pull bolts? I would say Soft metal ( alm block) steal bolts and 100000 miles is the mostly cause! We could debate this for months to me its not that important,I just was wanting to know what type of pump, tuning, injectors I need to get! Or I could do it the old fashion way and do it myself! By the way,how many race cars have you built? How many times have you been in the 6's in the 1/8 or 9's in 1/4?

denscor
01-18-06, 01:27 PM
I assume your talking about Squires turbo that is mounted in the rear. I talked to them and they will sell you the 'basic " package for a generic setup as they don't have a specific application for Cadillacs. This does not include any fuel modifications,ie: rails, injectors, plugs, higher flow pump, adjustable pressure regulator, lines and fittings. Also not included is the piggyback computer system you will need to control the fuel. You will also need a bigger MAF as the stock one will max out because of the increased air flow from the turbo.
I think some negatives of their system are:
1) the air intake is under the car & subject to water and dirt no matter what they say.
2) you need an oil pump for the return line to get it back from the turbo to the pan. If it fails for any
reason, your hosed. Most systems are gravity return.
3) The MAF has to go on the inducer(intake) side of the turbo as most are on the pressure side. This is called a draw thru vs. a blow thru. This is necessary on our cars because there are no fuel tables we can use like LS1 edit or other after market programs use when the MAF maxes out. If the MAF is on the pressure side it will max out and you have no way to control the fuel and then your screwed. How would you put the MAF at the intake of the turbo and run wiring to it??
4) They claim no turbo lag. I would think theirs would have more lag given the distance of the pressure piping and not knowing the specifics of our cars.
I'm sure there are a list of other things that I forgot, but these are the basics.
The biggest and most important thing is to find someone to put all this together for you who understands the computer and the piggyback and is familiar with the specific application for a cadillac.
What my guy and I have determined is that there is no way that this could be done as a kit that could be sold and the average person hook up due to the uniqueness and specific problems our cars present. And this is just for 98-99 as I assume other years have other issues that mine does or does not have. Some things could be universal, but many others would be very specific to that year of car.
Regarding the cost, it is still to early as I have been doing half the work with him using his knowledge so I don't know exactly what he would charge for the complete setup as we have not determined that yet but I guess it would be in the neighborhood of 10,000+ for all parts and labor, including tuning and dyno testing. Just a guess right now.
Keep in mind that you could save by not going all stainless and go with hard lines instead of AN lines and fittings.


Something to try!! LOL I think the Computer would be the hardest to mod because noone like to tune the Northstar! The GTO, with that kit is getting 15-20 psi of boost but its a shorter car and twins!

OffThaHorseCEO
01-18-06, 02:17 PM
so, when this is all said and done with, will it be a produced kit?
also, im assuming theres is not much of a engine difference between the sts n* and dts n* so, would the work be compatible? i know it would require different routing of the piping but as far as controlling fuel etc would that all be the same?

auroradude
01-18-06, 06:15 PM
Mark what about the computer? That thing needs to be able to handle the boost obviously, so I would be very curious how you are going to go about that

nitrous1
01-18-06, 07:29 PM
The question is what type of fuel pump!

I believe he is using an off the shelf Walbro pump, but I'm not sure which model - perhaps Mark will chime in and let us know the exact model.

MARK99STS
01-19-06, 01:08 AM
The question is what type of fuel pump! Were the injectors changed if so what type?


I went with a 255 Walboro pump, 42lb injectors with an Aeromotive 1000 boost referenced FPR. Tuning will be done with the XFC computer from PCS.

MARK99STS
01-19-06, 01:12 AM
so, when this is all said and done with, will it be a produced kit?
also, im assuming theres is not much of a engine difference between the sts n* and dts n* so, would the work be compatible? i know it would require different routing of the piping but as far as controlling fuel etc would that all be the same?

It will be a kit to some extent, depending on what year and model of Cadillac. The same system could be used on a DTS as far as computer and fuel system, but piping and placement would have to be engineered.