Well, as most of you know by now (if you've paid attention to the NAIAS) that Toyota is really stepping up their game bigtime.

The next Camry will have a 270 HP V6 and a 190HP I4 Hybrid and has (IMHO) one of the best looking interiors I've ever seen on a family sedan.

The new Lexus LS460 (in an effort to compete with Mercedes/BMW) will be Lexus' first PERFORMANCE car (that's right, a luxury performance car from Lexus) and will feature a 380HP V8 with an EIGHT speed transmission that hits 0-60 in less than six seconds. It will also have a NINETEEN speaker sound system, an 8 GB audio server and a massager in the rear right seat:bonkers:

I must say, America needs to bring it big time. GM can't go around pushing Pontiac G6 with drum brakes and pushrods against a Camry hybrid that gets 40MPG. And while the Lexus doesn't *really* compete against Cadillac, its obvious that they're moving up to compete with the S class and 7 series. Cadillac, in the meantime, has no ultra-luxury car yet and we STILL don't have a coupe yet!

Ford, apparently, has brought in a Carlos Ghosn-type (FYI, he was the guy that brought Nissan back from the dead) that they expect to try and turn
Ford around. They have a new slogan at Ford - "Change or Die!" Obviously they're taking it seriously.

Ford is doing pretty good though; they finally have a great bread and butter car (the Fusion) and their trucks are still number one. Not to mention they still dominate the pony car market:rolleyes:.

I'm worried about GM though; the bread and butter cars are Okay, but they aren't anywhere near the level of the current Camry, and I'm afraid that the '07 will completely blow them out of the water. The G6, like I mentioned earlier, is woefully inadequate to compete against today's cars. It would have been great 5 years ago, but this industry changes quick, and it's only mediocre now. The Malibu, Monte Carlo, Cobalt, are all the same - boring and not worth it. The Impala is nice, but the styling redesign was dissapointing, as they were obviously trying to make it look more Japanese:nono:.

I wish GM cared as much about their bread and butter cars as they do about the Corvettes and the Cadillacs.

At least Saturn seems to be headed in the right direction, and Cadillac seems to be doing okay. Buick even seems to be a bit more invigorated with the new Lucerne car that has the N* in it...

I am worried though...I hope that Cadillac doesn't end up becoming a brand name of Toyota Motor Corp. one day:bighead:

This one is going to get locked beause it is going to turn in to one of those "GM sucks" threads. Mark my words

People on here think GM sucks? :bonkers: But, isn't this a CADILLAC forum? That seems strange; all of the auto forums I usually visit don't bash the companies that make their cars. I'm worried about GM, but I CERTAINLY don't hate it...:hmm:

Some people do and threads like these usually go down hill real fast. This is a Caddy site to be sure but that doesn't mean everyone here thinks GM can do no worng. Stick around a while. YOu will see what I'm talking about.

The new Lexus LS460 (in an effort to compete with Mercedes/BMW) will be Lexus' first PERFORMANCE car (that's right, a luxury performance car from Lexus) and will feature a 380HP V8 with an EIGHT speed transmission that hits 0-60 in less than six seconds. It will also have a NINETEEN speaker sound system, an 8 GB audio server and a massager in the rear right seat

This sounds like a spectacular car to me! Lexus has always been on top of their game, and has some top-notch cars.

and a massager in the rear right seat:bonkers:
Confused. Why the right rear seat? Do they expect that the driver, if needing a massage, will stop the car, go to the RR seat, and hang out?

Don

MORE RICE FOR EVERYONE!!!!! :cloud9: REJOICE PEOPLE, LETS BUY CAMRYS AND ENJOY THE GREAT RICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHO NEEDS GOOD CARS WHEN THERES ALL THAT RICE AROUND US. CAN U BELEIVE THAT AMERICA IS LOOSING TO RICE THE SECOND TIME AROUND :helpless:

But really guys, I wouldn't want to drive a Lexus. Just doesn't seem exciting or respectful at all. Still think it's a cheap Mercedes knock-off and nothing more, plus they make RICE :crowded:

I wouldnt worry about this thread getting locked...
Ben72227 isnt around anymore..and he was always the one causing trouble and making people mad

Still think it's a cheap Mercedes knock-off and nothing more, plus they make RICE

I'm not in the market for a Lexus, but they're reliable cars. Lexus' styling doesn't excite me, but they all have top-notch leather and wood interiors that make you feel successful. I don't think any of us should "bash" a certain make of car just because we don't like where it comes from, it seems a bit barbaric to me.

Besides, we like our Cadillac's and that's all that matters!

Confused. Why the right rear seat? Do they expect that the driver, if needing a massage, will stop the car, go to the RR seat, and hang out?

Because the LS460 is the Longbase version of the LS; its meant to be ridden in, while the shorter one (430?) is meant to be driven. See, I told you Lexus was moving up!

Confused. Why the right rear seat? Do they expect that the driver, if needing a massage, will stop the car, go to the RR seat, and hang out?

I think he means right front seat (since it makes much more sense), but I could be wrong.

Getting a massage from your seat, drinking Starbucks, talking on your cell phone, and driving with your knee's......now THAT'S what I call multi-tasking!

Because the LS460 is the Longbase version of the LS; its meant to be ridden in, while the shorter one (430?) is meant to be driven. See, I told you Lexus was moving up!

I was proven wrong! Honestly, if you have a performance oriented car, wouldn't you want to drive it yourself?

(I also get nervous when other people drive me anyplace, I feel much safer being behind the wheel)

I'm not in the market for a Lexus, but they're reliable cars. Lexus' styling doesn't excite me, but they all have top-notch leather and wood interiors that make you feel successful. I don't think any of us should "bash" a certain make of car just because we don't like where it comes from, it seems a bit barbaric to me.

Besides, we like our Cadillac's and that's all that matters!

lol, i was just having a bit of fun. no harm done :duck:

It's funny how Lexus intentionally makes their cars ugly. It's part of Toyota's design philosophy...Kind of wierd, but hey, they must be doing something right if they're number one in the country:hmm:

The designs aren't ugly, they're reserved. Not flashy or showy, just in good taste. I mean, if you're calling the 460 ugly, you're also calling the new 7-series ugly, as well as about 30 other vehicles out there right now. They all pretty much look the same these days. However, you can't say Lexus is a cheap knockoff of Mercedes. How can something with twice the quality and value be a knockoff? I think this new LS460 is really something to watch out for. With Lexus' very high quality record, along with the smoother ride of a bigger vehicle and finally some pep, it's really gonna be an extraordinary car. Gotta hand it to Lexus. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em (a lot like White Castle I've found), they build one very fine machine.

I'm not in the market for a Lexus, but they're reliable cars. Lexus' styling doesn't excite me, but they all have top-notch leather and wood interiors that make you feel successful. I don't think any of us should "bash" a certain make of car just because we don't like where it comes from, it seems a bit barbaric to me.

Besides, we like our Cadillac's and that's all that matters!

I agree with you we shouldn't bash a certain make just because of where it comes from. Lexus interiors are nice, don't get me wrong, but they lack individuality, just look at the sea of tan (or grey, or black) soft plastics covering the interior. Boring! Lexus may be reliable but their cars don't particularly age well at all. Audi has my vote for the best interiors, they are beautifully finished.

To 90Brougham350 the new BMW 7 series is ugly, I think even BMW realized this.

Yes, I agree that Audi is the only luxury brand with cars that look absolutely gorgeous! MB looks bland, Lexus sets the bar for bland:histeric:, and BMW just looks FUGLY. Jaguars always look good though:p too bad they don't run:duck:

Troll

I think Ford's new slogan spells out what everyone in Detroit already knows. Gm has some nice product but they will need to be able to take a leading role rather than the "me-too" role they have been taking. It's possible for GM to stay on top but it will require some serious surgery on their product line, and corporate structure to turn things around. More so than any other auto maker mainly due to their current size and monitary position. They need to gain some positive cashflow and reduce their debt load. Then, if they can aquire some talented leadership, and put fourth some inspiring product, they will be the king of the hill. If this doesn't happen, they will end up going down in flames and possibly end up as a subsidiary of Toyota or worse.

Lexus may be reliable but their cars don't particularly age well at all.

Have you ever seen a Lexus rust or die before hit 100,000 miles?

I think Ford's new slogan spells out what everyone in Detroit already knows. Gm has some nice product but they will need to be able to take a leading role rather than the "me-too" role they have been taking. It's possible for GM to stay on top but it will require some serious surgery on their product line, and corporate structure to turn things around. More so than any other auto maker mainly due to their current size and monitary position. They need to gain some positive cashflow and reduce their debt load. Then, if they can aquire some talented leadership, and put fourth some inspiring product, they will be the king of the hill. If this doesn't happen, they will end up going down in flames and possibly end up as a subsidiary of Toyota or worse.

Your absolutely right Kat. I always thought of Ford as I guess more of the dweeb of car companies; I think Bill Ford is a bit of a pansie, but they seem to have realized the dire situation American autos are in, and they've actually decided to do something about it. Why don't we ever hear anything from GM about how they're committed to saving themselves and selling great products once again? Bob Lutz can say what he wants in his blog, but how about actually getting the message out to America on TV and radio?

The new Lexus LS460 will do 0-60 in 5.5 seconds.. The current LS430 does 0-60 in 5.9... Just an FYI...

Otherwise.. The new Camry IS very nice.. Toyota is becoming more interesting every year. They ARE capable of nice designs.. Look at the Supra.. Very nice.. The new Lexus LS is very nice.. And again, this Camry is very nice - especially the interior - where you spend most of your time with the car...

Ford DOES seem to be making some good moves.. I like the Fusion very much.. I think GM is very close - there's a new Buick SUV coming in the near future that looks nicer, in and out, than the Lexus RX...

wow nevermind my previous comment about Ben72227 starting trouble, I didnt notice he started the thread!

that was an ignorant mistake on my part :/

You fool!

Who unlocked it?

Have you ever seen a Lexus rust or die before hit 100,000 miles?

I never said that they were not reliable, I just said that their paint, leather, and plastics don't keep their "newness."

The reason is that I see early LS400s and similar vintage Cadillacs and high end German brands (BMW 7 series, BMW 5 series, Mercedes S Class Mercedes E Class, Audi V8) which held up much better then the LS400, they didn't lose that new car feeling.

My friend has a 1990 LS400 with 80,000 miles with good maintainance, and it did not hold up nearly as well as my Deville. An example is his leather is all stiff and my leather is nice and soft.

I've never seen a dead or dying Lexus. But I see American cars in that condition all the time that are fewer than 10 years old. The only Toyotas and Datsuns I see in horrible condition are over 15 years old and probably have over 250,000 miles.

I'm not worried about the trade deficit anymore, or the fact that GM will lose their #1 status this year. Eventually the American car buyer will start thinking like I did--it's US against THEM--and buy at least ONE American-designed and built vehicle. While some people use their conscience to think "green" for the environment, I used mine to think green for our economy. I haven't regretted it--yet.

There will be a revival of American cars. Detroit will be dead by then and the factories will be spread out all around the country. It may take another 15 years but I see it happening. I see us hitting the proverbial "tipping point" about the same time the Chinese cars get a foothold.

wow nevermind my previous comment about Ben72227 starting trouble, I didnt notice he started the thread!

that was an ignorant mistake on my part :/

It wasn't a mistake. Ben72227 created another account, started this post, then had his accounts merged. I saw no reason for this thread to be locked, so I unlocked it... If I missed something, let me know...

Thank God. This proves I am not nuts and it was locked.

And thank goodness it wasn't locked.:sneaky:

I thought about posting with my usual account, but I knew in the back of my mind that anything i posted would immediately be blasted by IluvCaddys or Randy or Rick or one of the people who think I'm some sort of "troublemaker troll" even though I've been here longer than most and am one of the main Cadillac historians:nono: on this site.

Basically this thread was supposed to be a discussion of the NAIAS preview thread (which I also started) but those people who dislike anyone who likes cars other than the ones made in Detroit immediately assumed it was some sort of "anti-GM" thread.

Personally, I don't like being labeled as a troublemaker. In my mind, those people are the ones who say mean and hateful things towards others and bring no real points into the discussion. It's okay not to have the same tastes in cars as me, but don't hate me for it people;).

I tried to contact Sal by the way, but I didn't know his email and I couldn't PM anybody...

As for why I didn't "just go join a Honda/Toyota forum" is simple. I don't like those forums and I don't own a Toyota. Besides, those people don't like American cars and think that their Japanese cars are best. Personally, I like all types of cars, and so it wouldn't have worked out; I like everything from Cadillacs to Jaguars to Mazdas to Saturns (the new ones anyway:p ).

Anyway, just thought I'd clear up the situation coming from the man himself...

Ben, I have no problem with you, I know you're not trying to start problems by posting and praising about other cars. But not all have the same view as me.

I believe if you were trying to "start problems" you would insult people and their viewpoint and their cars

I'm not the kind of guy that will only buy GM or American cars all the time. I admit it's great to help out our economy, but If theres a Japanese car that is better for me and my needs, I'll buy that. But at this point in my life, it doesnt matter what kind of car I buy because I'm buying used cars, and none of that money goes back to the home country's economy. I bought a Cadillac because I genuinely love Cadillacs, and I have since I was 14. It would have been a better idea economically speaking if I bought a Honda or some sort of reliable small car because I am in college right now, and money is tight. But I bought to satisfy my wants, not my needs. :)

Good cars are built all over the world. The US and Asian, european makes all have their bombs. I'm kinda thinking along the same line as Elvis wrote. We will soon be a nation of consuption but build nothing.

Back on topic...

I've owned more Japanese cars than most folks on this forum, and some were awful while others were fantastic. There isn't some magic Japanese touch that turns water into wine. Its just luck with certain models and drivetrain configurations. Gotta love the media for exaggerating everything.

The 80s are over. Things change.


Toyota's surge in popularity is disconcerting to me, and not just in an economic sense. It says something important about Americans: We're boring, sad, and lifeless people.


Now excuse me while I go play with my die cast Corvette.

Boy it's amazing how posts disappear around here! :hmm:

Regarding the massager in the backseat, I think that's probably correct. You don't want the driver to be TOOO relaxed... It's ok to fall asleep in the back seat though..