: New 2007 Imperial



Sandy
12-30-05, 11:34 PM
I saw the preview of the all new 2007 Imperial, today. It will be unveiled September, 2006. It will be Sandy's next new car, and I have a waiting buyer for my 2003 Town Car that has 7,700 miles on it now, and should have 11,000 in Sept. '07.
Rolls Royce Phaeton "A" - "B" & "C" pillars, very similar taillamps and a very similiar headlight/grille and front fender configuration, with Suicide doors and a R.R. roofline. Will be black. Interior, depends what is available....
1st choice = White leather
2nd choice = Black Leather
3rd choice = Red Leather

I am afraid it will be very very expensive, as it LOOKS that way....
A masterful job of copy-ism ! :thumbsup:

Stoneage_Caddy
12-30-05, 11:54 PM
I saw the preview of the all new 2007 Imperial, today. It will be unveiled September, 2006. It will be Sandy's next new car, and I have a waiting buyer for my 2003 Town Car that has 7,700 miles on it now, and should have 11,000 in Sept. '07.
Rolls Royce Phaeton "A" - "B" & "C" pillars, very similar taillamps and a very similiar headlight/grille and front fender configuration, with Suicide doors and a R.R. roofline. Will be black. Interior, depends what is available....
1st choice = White leather
2nd choice = Black Leather
3rd choice = Red Leather
I am afraid it will be very very expensive, as it LOOKS that way....
A masterful job of copy-ism ! :thumbsup:
Sandy ive been hearing about this car for a few weeks ....I guess you got a personal Invite to see the car in person ?

I cannot wait to see it , i hope it lives up to its name , unlike the last imperial we got from chrysler ....

Kev
12-31-05, 12:02 AM
Are there no spy pics to which we can link for a look-see?

90Brougham350
12-31-05, 12:04 AM
A new Imperial? Chrysler is really working the old-school angle. Think we'll see gem-quality emblems again?

Stoneage_Caddy
12-31-05, 12:06 AM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/vdubjetta/NAIAS002.jpg

Elvis
12-31-05, 12:26 AM
Suicide doors?

Caddy Man
12-31-05, 12:39 AM
holy crap that looks ugly. Whats up with chrylser ripping off designs?? First it was Bentley with the 300C, but the 300C is pretty nice. And now its the RR Phantom?? And a really ugly version at that? Just my opinion.

gary88
12-31-05, 01:43 AM
From what I see, at least they didn't put an umbrella in the rear door

Kev
12-31-05, 02:57 AM
From what I see, at least they didn't put an umbrella in the rear doorWhat? No umbrella?! Aww, man!

Caddy Man
12-31-05, 03:02 AM
What? No umbrella?! Aww, man!
now im gonna get all wet :ill:

LaneWvr
12-31-05, 05:56 AM
Nice! Cadillac needs to bring back the Fleetwood!

Lord Cadillac
12-31-05, 09:07 AM
Thanks, Mike! I don't know, man! I LOVE it! Then again, the Rolls Royce Phantom is my dreamcar.. Wow.. Chrysler really is kicking ass.. I hope this car comes about.. WTF is Cadillac doing about the Fleetwood?! Now I want a Talisman...

deskjockey
12-31-05, 09:36 AM
ok, i want it. think it comes with bulletproof glass, skid plate and armored doors?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 10:14 AM
I think it looks great. I really like the rear end and the profile. It's great to see Chrysler bring back an honored nameplate!

Sandy
12-31-05, 10:18 AM
It looks in person, looooooonger than that picture!! The fold in the magazine has taken with it some length. It's about 8 inches longer than a 300. Chassis is 6 inches longer than the 300. I'd estimate it to be the length of the Cadillac STS (2005), perhaps 1 to 2 inches longer, no more. Not sure butI think the price will be in the $53,000 range. Which HEMI it will have, also unsure. Will the SRT-8 be standard? Optional, or Not Available, is unknown.
No, I will never get rid of my Sixty Special, not to worry !! It would be the '03 Town Car. This Imperial should ONLY be made in black, white, cream, deep emerald, dark dark brown, dark grey (charcoal), or navy. Someone needs to put a picnic basket in the trunk !

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 10:21 AM
Dark brown with cream leather!
mmmmm yes!

Stoneage_Caddy
12-31-05, 03:04 PM
itll look GREAT in production form guys ....dont worry to much , these cars chrysler does that are production conecpts always looked a bit bloated and funny to hide the finial lines, but when they arrive at dealerships they always look just about right

dbdartman
12-31-05, 03:07 PM
Vergil Exner on LSD interprates Cadillac's Art & Science design? :hmm:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 03:12 PM
Vergil Exner on LSD interprates Cadillac's Art & Science design? :hmm:

What???

Stoneage_Caddy
12-31-05, 03:13 PM
vergil was the harley earl of chrysler , one of the great designers of our time , christine , the turbine chrysler and several of the great chryslers of the 50s and 60s owe alot to him

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 03:23 PM
Yeah I knew who Virgil Exner was, but I dont get how Art & Science ties into the Chrysler head of design from the 1950's

Stoneage_Caddy
12-31-05, 03:27 PM
ohhhh .....there i went ASSuMEing things again .....

youll have ot pardon ol stoney , hes not running on all 8 today

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 03:31 PM
yeah I can tell! :p

dbdartman
12-31-05, 05:18 PM
What???

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif That's what I though when I first saw the pics of that car. :ill:

Stony, Virgil did so some very fine designs. Some of the later stuff however (like the 61 Dart & Valiant for example) is just strange (again, to me they seem to be "design by a committee" that doesn't consult with it's members).

I can only hope that before I die, designers REdiscover visually pleasing proportions (something I think is lacking in about 98% of the current auto styling).

Sandy
12-31-05, 06:50 PM
The new Imperial is going to "breakthrough" in design, so it will have its admirers and also its haters. Like the Cadillac STS & CTS. Many Cadillac loyalists dislike the STS as they were looking for a redisigned Seville, and that is definately NOT what was delivered. The Imperial will be very "stately" and elegant ~ do not look for avante garde or new wave styling. It's not about that. It's more about a modern interruption of what the 1960 Imps stood for, that being opulant interiors, and restrained elegant styling.
"X" percent will love it AND "X" percent will hate it, and NOBODY will be in the middle, or undecided. My guess? 70% will love it & 30% will hate it. It will sell very well, mostly to 40-50 someones, who grew up in a MOPAR family, or have always like Imperials or who (such as me) have had Imps and were impressed with them. Hard Core Lincoln & Caddy people (better known as conquest sales) will be tough. But, then again, look at the Chrysler 300 sales!! Most ChryCo loyalists were pissed about putting the " 300 " badge on (GOD FORBID) a Four Door Sedan !

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-31-05, 07:10 PM
What was so wrong with the 1990-93 Imperials?? The only problem I see with them is they are K-car based. They look like a good competitor to a Park Ave/ Ninety Eight seeing as how they are a FWD/ V6 setup.

Will the new ones compete with the S Class market, or the deVilles and Town Cars?

Randy_W
12-31-05, 11:09 PM
But, then again, look at the Chrysler 300 sales!! Most ChryCo loyalists were pissed about putting the " 300 " badge on (GOD FORBID) a Four Door Sedan !

I can't imagine why, since several years were offered in 4 door models.

I guess the new one would look better in something other than shit brown, or maybe not!

Sandy
12-31-05, 11:26 PM
I was referring to the 300 Letter Cars,
i.e. (B C D E F G H J K and L.)

gdwriter
01-01-06, 02:32 AM
Virgil Exner on LSD interprates Cadillac's Art & Science design? :hmm:

ROTFLMAO!

I'll reserve judgement until I see more pictures. Like the idea of bringing back a great name, especially if it's done right.

Now GM, build the Sixteen, dammit!


What was so wrong with the 1990-93 Imperials?? The only problem I see with them is they are K-car based.

Just my opinion, but those 1990-93 Imperials were one of the tackiest cars of recent memory. I haven't seen so much chrome slapped onto a car since the '58 Buick and Oldsmobile. Their K-car heritage make them even more insulting to the Imperial name.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-01-06, 03:53 AM
Were the 90-93's reliable cars? Did they have any major problems? Or is it that they are tacky, bland looking cars?
They had very nice looking seats with a full digital dash, which I like :)

Jesda
01-01-06, 07:35 AM
This Pleases Me!

Sandy
01-01-06, 03:54 PM
They were very reliable cars, but their downfall was that they were built on a stretched K-Car platform, which while of course waaay better than a K-Kar, they had inheirant limitations, and that they were front wheel drive ... but so were the Caddies of the day, remember. Secondly, they were too narrow and looked kinda pinched ) ( ~ I think the "Imperial-Buyers" stayed away from them, as well. It was the only series (1990-1993) that even we didn't purchase, switching to Cadillac (my 1993 Sixty Special).

brougham
01-01-06, 04:46 PM
It looks in person, looooooonger than that picture!! The fold in the magazine has taken with it some length. It's about 8 inches longer than a 300. Chassis is 6 inches longer than the 300. I'd estimate it to be the length of the Cadillac STS (2005), perhaps 1 to 2 inches longer, no more. Not sure butI think the price will be in the $53,000 range. Which HEMI it will have, also unsure. Will the SRT-8 be standard? Optional, or Not Available, is unknown.
No, I will never get rid of my Sixty Special, not to worry !! It would be the '03 Town Car. This Imperial should ONLY be made in black, white, cream, deep emerald, dark dark brown, dark grey (charcoal), or navy. Someone needs to put a picnic basket in the trunk !

The 300 already is bigger then the STS is so the Imperial should be even longer then that. The only thing I read about the new Imperials said that Accubuilt is going to make them.

I like those 1990s Imperials. They look nice and they're really cofortable inside. They have a lot of neat things that even Cadillacs didn't have.

Sandy
01-01-06, 05:48 PM
Accubuilt is going to make a limo of the Imp. Chrysler is making the Imperial Sedan. There allready are test mules running of the Imp Limo built by Accubuilt, wearing 300C bodies....

SilverFleetwood85
01-01-06, 06:18 PM
They were very reliable cars, but their downfall was that they were built on a stretched K-Car platform, which while of course waaay better than a K-Kar, they had inheirant limitations, and that they were front wheel drive ... but so were the Caddies of the day, remember. Secondly, they were too narrow and looked kinda pinched ) ( ~ I think the "Imperial-Buyers" stayed away from them, as well. It was the only series (1990-1993) that even we didn't purchase, switching to Cadillac (my 1993 Sixty Special).

K Car was reliable? I don't think so. The K car had problems with their transmissions and engines (they were, I believe mitsubishi built). The 90-93 looked nice and always reminded me of an oldsmobile 98, but they lack independent rear suspension which the olds, buick, and cad had.

Pete Benson
01-01-06, 06:29 PM
I saw the preview of the all new 2007 Imperial, today. It will be unveiled September, 2006. It will be Sandy's next new car
Omigod Sandy, I saw the magazine too and please tell me you're not serious - why would you want a vehicle that's such an obvious ripoff of another car?? And the proportions are COMPLETELY wrong: it looks like it's about eight feet long and as if it weighs about 40,000 pounds - so you're really kidding, right? Right??

Sandy
01-01-06, 07:39 PM
Nope! Dead serious, I saw the finished car, and you did not ~ The magazine car is NOT THE finished car, but an artist's conception. Remember that. The only part that is dead on is the roof & "C" pillar .....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-01-06, 07:47 PM
Sandy, where can I see the real car??

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-01-06, 07:49 PM
They were very reliable cars, but their downfall was that they were built on a stretched K-Car platform, which while of course waaay better than a K-Kar, they had inheirant limitations, and that they were front wheel drive ... but so were the Caddies of the day, remember. Secondly, they were too narrow and looked kinda pinched ) ( ~ I think the "Imperial-Buyers" stayed away from them, as well. It was the only series (1990-1993) that even we didn't purchase, switching to Cadillac (my 1993 Sixty Special).

I think of those as a car that competes with the deVilles for features and amenities with a drivetrain that competes with the Park Aves/ Ninety Eights.

Actually, now that I think about it, that car would be very similar to the 1990-93 Lincoln Continental, but about $4000 less new MSRP.

Pete Benson
01-01-06, 11:12 PM
Nope! Dead serious, I saw the finished car, and you did not ~ The magazine car is NOT THE finished car, but an artist's conception. Remember that. The only part that is dead on is the roof & "C" pillar .....
Ohhkaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy, I hope you're right. I admit to being crazy about the '57 Imperial - quality issues notwithstanding.

Sandy
01-02-06, 12:26 AM
Sandy, where can I see the real car??

Ahhhh, truthfully ~ you can't. Well, perhaps *IF* your parents had owned 22 consecutive Imperials, Chrysler Corporate Stock and Stock Options, your Uncle had been an ICP dealer and you yourself had sold ICP for many years and knew well placed "Hoy Paahloy" (hebrew, for VIPs) in the company yesterday (meaning in the last couple of years) as well at present...well then you'd have a shot. Remember this:

(Sadly) Mother MOPAR is no longer really American, but German-American, and on its own has been really making the $$$$ over the last decade, and has the benefit of wealthy Mercedes Benz financial piggy bank, and have been investing heavily in ~HOT~ product. Pacifica, Crossfire, Magnum, Charger, 300C, The SRT-4 Neon, the SRT-8 trio, the SRT-10 Dodge Ram Truck, an All new Sebring for '07, All new Durango last year, etc, etc.
Bringing back the HEMI and more to come! {Supercharged 6.1 Hemi, maybe :rolleyes: ) ~ so...... if they are going to Re-Introduce the Imperial.....
They ARE going to do it correctly. You will be impressed. I am not too keen on the color choices, in some instances....otherwise, she'll be black over black, perhaps cream piping........and a cream pin stripe.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-06, 12:31 AM
Will it be at the 2006 Detroit Autoshow perhaps??

Also, will it be an Imperial, or a Chrysler Imperial?

Gee, I'm so excited about this!!!
It's not everyday a luxury nameplate comes back from the abyss!
What's next, the LaSalle??

Sandy
01-02-06, 01:20 AM
There is a very good chance it will be at that show .... :rolleyes:
BTW....
It was NEVER a Chrysler Imperial, it was ALWAYS just "Imperial" ~ Well....
Imperial Custom
Imperial Crown
Imperial LeBaron.

The MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin) which was the paper from
where the Statement of Ownership (title) was created, ALWAYS said:
I M P E R I A L.....Never ever Chrysler Imperial ! :helpless:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-06, 01:22 AM
Really?!
I thought for the 1990-93's that they were a Chrysler because they in the 1990 Chrysler full line catalog.

I always thought that they had really cool hood ornaments with the crystal and whatnot.

90Brougham350
01-02-06, 02:18 AM
As much as I hate Chrysler, I have to admit they're really taking chances and pushing forwards with retro models and new designs, they're not sitting back and being ultra-cautious.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-06, 02:24 AM
Yeah I liked Chrysler from 1957-1971, then I didnt like htem from 72-about 94, but since 94 I have liked a few of their cars.

Sandy
01-02-06, 09:21 AM
I once considered getting a PentaStar tatoo !:D "Hate" and "Chrysler" cannot go in the same sentence. Similiar to "hate" and "money" or sentences such as "Sure hope I don't win the lottery." :) :) :D

mccombie_5
01-02-06, 09:48 AM
Yeah I liked Chrysler from 1957-1971, then I didnt like htem from 72-about 94, but since 94 I have liked a few of their cars.
I agree in this, I have only dealt with very few of Chryslers cars, but the 1996-now cars seem to be nicer than previous stone age mobiles.

I like the 1998 Concorde, hte 2002 300M and a few others, nice looking cars, I got a Concorde as a rental once when I was in Florida, seemed like a good car, and we did quite a few miles in it too.

Katshot
01-02-06, 10:43 AM
There is a very good chance it will be at that show .... :rolleyes:
BTW....
It was NEVER a Chrysler Imperial, it was ALWAYS just "Imperial" ~ Well....
Imperial Custom
Imperial Crown
Imperial LeBaron.
The MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin) which was the paper from
where the Statement of Ownership (title) was created, ALWAYS said:
I M P E R I A L.....Never ever Chrysler Imperial ! :helpless:

I sure was MARKETED as a Chrysler though. And built by Chrysler. I've never heard anything other than it being a Chrysler.

Katshot
01-02-06, 11:24 AM
Here's a link to a VERY interesting site that has probably the largest single mountain of Imperial data. There's even an article by someone we all know and love! ;)

http://www.imperialclub.com/Articles/index.htm

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-06, 12:30 PM
Chrysler really had it going in the late '50s when Virgil Exner was the lead designer, then they really had it again from about 1968-71 back when the Charger ruled the streets and the hemi was king. Ever since then, they have been on a road to revival, which has really been helped by the merger in 1998.

Katshot
01-02-06, 12:42 PM
IMO, prior to the merger, most of the Chrysler product was crap. The K-car years may have been memorable for some but it did little to entice me to even look at a Chrysler lot when I was buying. It wasn't until the redesigned "Kenworth looking" Dodge P/U, Durango, and the 300M came along that even considered buying a Chrysler product.
I was a MOPAR fan back in the late 60's, early 70's but that was only due to their performance cars. BTW, as I recall, the 440-Six-Pack was usually the best performer even though the "Hemi" got the headlines.

Sandy
01-02-06, 02:22 PM
The Hemi was a track engine! The 440 was thebetter street engine. The Hemi would not idle for crap,drove like a car with Parkinson's, too!
I ordered my Demos with 440s, or the 340 6-Pac. I was a nut-case, and I am lucky to be alive today. Closed up at 9PM and during the 9 mile ride home, nightly, I was good for 3 to 4 drag races. I lost one (1) :lildevil:
A Challenger with a 440 4Bbl. & sure grip was (almost) unbeatable! We put a Mallory Ignition in my demo, in the shop on a Saturday (when nobody was around - early in the AM) and I was running Sunoco 260 (not sold locally, any longer). Got Home, pulled into driveway.. to join 2 Imperials. '70 LeBaron Coupe & '71 LeBaron 4-Dr. Coupe was "Teal Blue" - 4-Door was "Crystal Dawn" and to this mix I added the Challenger R/T ~ S.E. Coupe in SubLIME, with a White Limousine Style Vinyl top and black & white checkerboard Cloth interior, trimmed in leather with Red-Line Tires. It was like a flare in the middle of the road. (But...I knew all the cops in the 2 towns I went thru, as I worked the Bids, and we sold them the cop cars AND serviced them.
When I sold that 1970 Challenger it had 8,000 miles on it, and we needed to put on new tires :D
1971, I think I got a Super Bee Coronet 440, with the Super Track Pack and 4.11s/

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-06, 02:32 PM
Personally I think that Mopar had the best muscle cars from 68-71.

Sandy
01-02-06, 03:19 PM
Only car I ever lost to was a car I had no respect for, and "he" showed me~
A funny looking thing that looked like a turtle. or better yet, a walnut shell on wheels, called a Porsche Speedster. My Challenger could not beat him. He played with me like a cat with a fly. Otherwise, nothing could take me.

If I was younger, I'd buy the forthcoming Challenger if I could get the E59 motor in it :getaway: :jawdrop:

I think I'd look look a fool in a Challenger,
at 59 years young! I guess I have become my Dad;
Hello Imperial

Katshot
01-02-06, 03:26 PM
A Porsche Speedster out-dragged you? Get out! I used to build those engines back in the 70's and 80's. I can't imagine one being as quick as any of the old muscle cars unless it had a TON of work done to it (including a turbo).

gdwriter
01-02-06, 04:01 PM
I once considered getting a PentaStar tatoo!

We interrupt this thread for a related story:

Sandy, I thought about getting an Impala tatoo, and a couple of years ago, I found this temporary tattoo paper that you could run through an ink jet printer. I made up tatoos with the leaping Impala and wore one whenever I went to a car show. Also wore one on a trip back to my hometown to see if it would freak out my parents. It did. Sadly, Office Max doesn't seem to carry the temporary tatoo paper anymore.

http://www.gdwriter.com/graphics/impala_logo_tattoo.jpg

We now return to you to your regular thread.

Sandy
01-02-06, 05:41 PM
I would not get a permanent tatoo, but that there is pretty neat.

I don't have a clue what was in the Speedster, but I backed off J.F.K. highway (speed limit of 60) & I backed off at 80 MPH and HE was absolutely over 95 ! I was nuts. He was plain crazy. I did race a couple of times a local kid in his 4.4.2. W-30 Cutlass 2-Dr. Post Coupe. I always won. I raced a Mustang (1969 MACH I) 351 & I won and a '69 Z-28 of some configuration.... ? I won. The Super Bee that followed was quick, too. In 1971 the 'Bee came (optional) with ram air. I had that, and the Trac Pac (H/Duty Rear End, 4.11s and Sure Grip) She was a 440 4Bbl. 'Bee. BLack with no vinyl hat and vinyl buckets, white. 6-way power driver & P/W and am with Stereo 8-Track Tape and wood steering wheel & Hood Pins.

Sandy
01-02-06, 06:31 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/ef0ne/Jesse/File0110.jpg
NOTE THE SIDE SCULPTURE LINE ON THE REAR QUARTER PANEL, THE DIP ON THE REAR DOOR,
AND HOW IT MEETS THE HORIZONTAL LOWER SCULPTURE. IT'S QUITE PRONOUNCED ON THE DOOR.

Randy_W
01-02-06, 06:38 PM
IMO, prior to the merger, most of the Chrysler product was crap. The K-car years may have been memorable for some but it did little to entice me to even look at a Chrysler lot when I was buying. It wasn't until the redesigned "Kenworth looking" Dodge P/U, Durango, and the 300M came along that even considered buying a Chrysler product.
I was a MOPAR fan back in the late 60's, early 70's but that was only due to their performance cars. BTW, as I recall, the 440-Six-Pack was usually the best performer even though the "Hemi" got the headlines.

A couple of problems with Hemi's in street racing scenarios were,(1.) they usually were geared too high, most had 3.23-3.54 gears. Hemi's did not have great low end torque, but rather made a ton of horsepower at high rpm.(2) Most people didn't adjust the valves every 3000 miles or less that was required to keep a Hemi anywhere near peak performance. Often times a well tuned Hemi against a well tuned 440+6 with both cars having 3.23 gears, the 440 would win. Take the same cars and install 4.56 gears and the Hemi would blow it's doors off! I had several 440 cars as well as a 1968 GTX/Hemi.;)

90Brougham350
01-02-06, 09:18 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/ef0ne/Jesse/File0110.jpg
NOTE THE SIDE SCULPTURE LINE ON THE REAR QUARTER PANEL, THE DIP ON THE REAR DOOR,
AND HOW IT MEETS THE HORIZONTAL LOWER SCULPTURE. IT'S QUITE PRONOUNCED ON THE DOOR.

Very BMW-esque, in the fact it looks like the total length of the vehicle is no more than 13 inches longer than the wheel base. The chrome edging on the door is hideous. Looks too much like an early 90's Buick.

lacmang
01-02-06, 09:52 PM
since ripping off a Bentley worked for Chrysler ripping off a Rolls Royce should do wonders.

davesdeville
01-03-06, 06:46 AM
It damn well better be longer than it looks like in either pic. If it IS and has at least the 6.1, then I might have to reconsider my planned purchase of an STS-V in several years...

Randy_W
01-03-06, 08:26 AM
It's proportioned like a 1940's car, which in my opinion, was one of the worst periods in style history! That is one UGLY car!!!:bulging:

Katshot
01-03-06, 08:48 AM
I saw some more pictures of the Imperial and Challenger in this week's AutoWeek. IMO, the car is too short, and the lines are too choppy-looking. Yeah, it resembles recent Rolls Royce's but I think that's NOT a good thing since I think they're ugly too. The car looks disproportionately tall for the overall length. Is this maybe showing the limits of the LX chassis? Who knows? It's an interesting exercise but I think it needs some tweaking. Sandy, do you think the B-pillar-less design will make it to production? It would be cool but somehow I doubt it.

Sandy
01-03-06, 10:20 AM
Yes, I believe it did. However, what this car needs is to be the exterior size, length, width, etc. of your FLWD Brougham !! I agree that IF (key word) it's that short that it looks to stubby. I am sick of small cars. Well, actually, I am sick of NOT having a choice anylonger of BIG OR SMALL, & having BIG taken away.

Lord Cadillac
01-03-06, 11:30 AM
I agree on the length opinions.. It's too short. It looks like a stubby Phantom. Still, I love the Phantom and I think I'll like this car overall...

HotRodSaint
01-03-06, 12:00 PM
A Porsche Speedster out-dragged you? Get out! I used to build those engines back in the 70's and 80's. I can't imagine one being as quick as any of the old muscle cars unless it had a TON of work done to it (including a turbo).

In 1970 the chances of finding a car with an aftermarket turbo charger was slim to nil. If anything, it might have been supercharged.

Stock, I'm not sure if a 110hp 4-Cam Carrera motor, which was an available option for the 1800lb Speedster, could have beat a 440 Challenger but a 911 engine swap certainly could have increased the Speedsters odds.

I was once beat by a Porsche powered VW while driving a Ferrari 308.

HotRodSaint
01-03-06, 12:05 PM
This Imperial would look good in black with an aftermarket 'Rolls Royce' grill!! :yup:

And if they are clinic testing the design, then I'd expect it to be a 2008.

Katshot
01-03-06, 12:45 PM
In 1970 the chances of finding a car with an aftermarket turbo charger was slim to nil. If anything, it might have been supercharged.
Stock, I'm not sure if a 110hp 4-Cam Carrera motor, which was an available option for the 1800lb Speedster, could have beat a 440 Challenger but a 911 engine swap certainly could have increased the Speedsters odds.
I was once beat by a Porsche powered VW while driving a Ferrari 308.

I was HEAVILY into the VW scene in the late 70's early 80's. I used to build VW and Porsche engines, did a few engine swaps (Porsche into VW bugs), and was building "Cal-look" Bugs on the east coast before most people even knew what they were. It's not that we didn't build HOT VW engines but this was several years after Sandy's story. Back when he raced that Speedster, IMO, it would've been REAL rare to have found one fast enough to even stay with the MOPAR, let alone BEAT it. Hell, even a stock 911 engine in a bug wouldn't give an old MOPAR muscle car a run in those days. The couple we did were fast but they weren't THAT fast. Oh, and by the time I got into the high-performance bugs in the mid to late 70's, turbos were very common on them.

Katshot
01-03-06, 04:38 PM
I'm surprised nobody's posted these pictures yet. Looks an AWEFUL lot like the Imperial concept.

Lord Cadillac
01-03-06, 06:26 PM
Yup. That's my dream car.. Not in that color, however.. Black.. It DOES look like what the Imperial is trying to be - which is why I like it.

Katshot
01-03-06, 09:17 PM
You REALLY like that? I think it's nasty looking. Looks more like a tank than a Rolls Royce IMO.

HotRodSaint
01-04-06, 12:00 AM
I was HEAVILY into the VW scene in the late 70's early 80's.

Then you know about EMPI and how they were running low 12's with a N/A VW engine in the late '60's.

If the Inch Pincher was rated about 220hp, then a Speedster with a 200hp 911s motor and some aftermarket goodies could easily beat the Challengers mid-13's.

ted tcb
01-04-06, 01:35 AM
Sandy, like most Chrysler's starting with the Viper, I'm sure the car will look superb in the flesh.
I've been a member of the Online Imperial Club for years ... most members are voting thumbs down on this design ... it's the hottest topic on their web forum.
Of course, they haven't had a new Imperial since 1993, and most members barely recognize the fuelage era Imperials as true Imperials. You cannot compare modern styling to a classic 1966 Imperial ... apples to oranges.

My only question is why drop 30-40 large on a new Imperial? Chrysler has the worst resale value this side of Kia. Why not buy a 2 year old, warrantied example when your 61 yrs old for about 15k? I figure when my 99 STS gets too tired in about 2 years time, I'm going for a fully optioned 300C with low miles.
If you can't warm up to the Art & Science theme Caddy's, then a used 300 is a helluva buy.
Can't wait to see the new Imperial in the flesh ... nobody brings concept cars to the market faster than Chrysler.

Sandy
01-04-06, 10:27 AM
Lots of things there to address, Ted.

1). I spent 27 years in the retail car business. I am also a car-a-holic, since age 5. Now age 59. With that background, we don't buy used cars, unless they are collectible, restored or original to perfection. Regarding the depreciation, it does not matter to me. I do not fly, therefore other than staying home & relaxing, I have never taken a "traditional" vacation. Being in New Jersey, one might think one would be a frequent Atlantic City Gambler. I am not. I don't like to lose money. But, I enjoy new cars, and with them come the price of entry as well as the depreciation. I am okay with that.

2). People who recall the heritage of the 1957-1975 Imperial (and 1976-1978 NewYorker Badged Imperial), and bring that to the table, will of course not be jumpin' up &down over this new one ~ but, then again, who today makes ANY car that has anything in common with any 1957-1978 car? They have to size it & style it to fit into today's "accepted" style of car, (which, of course will be laughed at uncontrollably in 10 years) !!

3. The new Imperial will be in the "lower fifties" ~ meaning around $53,000.
I also like the new Cadillac DTS, but spec'd out with options it windows at $60,000. I feel it's overpriced. Remember, the only parts NEW on it are the front fenders, grille and hood, the rear quarters, deck lid & tailamps. It's NOT a total redesign, yet they'd kicked the price up a good $6,000.

4.) In truth, the manufactutrers are ripping off everyone, to pay their pensions and UAW contracts. For the cost of the new cars, the selling dealers are making very little money and the sales forces are nearly starving to death. Can you imagine selling a $40,000 item (any item....think outside of cars....any item..... and making a commission of $45.00 Gross?)
50% of the $$$ the consumer pays gos towards the production, engineering, and manufacturing expences and 45% goes to pension funds, health care, etc, etc, and 1% to transportation, 2% to selling dealer, 1% to advertising, .2 % to sales , .5% to make ready servicing and .3% to financing fees.

ted tcb
01-04-06, 11:24 AM
I couldn't agree more with your 4th point re margins on new cars.
I've grown up around the car retailing biz, and anyone in the industry with any business sense prefers selling used cars.
You want a black 99 LS400 Lexus with under 60k? I may have the only one in Toronto, and I'm sticking to my margin of $3k gross.
You want to buy a 4door Chev Aveo with the power pkg? In red? You'll find one at every GM dealer in Toronto, selling for close to invoice.

I liken the purchase of a good, previously enjoyed car to a fine bottle of red wine. Any idiot can drop $30 bucks on a good bottle of wine. The challenge is in finding a good merlot for under $10 bucks. Same with a car. I've had 45 cars in 28 years, about half of them used. The challenge for me is in finding a good, used Cadillac for about 10k Cdn ... I've done it on three occasions, and I've bombed out on the 4th ... a 1989 Fleetwood that looked showroom fresh, but was rotting out from the inside. For me, its a fun hobby, and like all hobbies, it costs money and you get better at it with practice.
You're in a position to spend the money, enjoy the vehicle in new condition, and keep it properly serviced. Before kids and college, I used to do the same ... I couldn't imagine letting some goon beat on my car prior to my ownership. Thankfully, being a Cadillac afficienado, most of these cars are treated with respect from an older demographic ... if you can buy them used before the 2nd or 3rd owner abuses the power and neglects the maintenance.
Good luck with the Imperial ... the 300C goes for about $40-45Cdn retail, so I guess the Imp will be north of $50. I'd love to see Car & Driver do another "King of the Hill" test with Caddilac, Imperial, and then I'm stumped ... the Town Car no longer plays in this field.

HotRodSaint
01-04-06, 11:45 AM
Oh, and by the time I got into the high-performance bugs in the mid to late 70's, turbos were very common on them.

Until about 1975 or 1976, after Porsche introduced it's Turbo Carrera and BMW it's 2002Tii, there were virtually no turbo kits available in the aftermarket.

Yea, I know GM had a turbo model in '64. But how long did that last???

So in the year 1970, to find a turbocharged Speedster or any other car would have been a very rare find indeed.

Supercharging was much more likely, and you being HEAVILY into VW's also should know that there was a supercharger available for the VW Bug way back in the mid-'50's. It wouldn't take much modification to fit that to a 356, if Judson didn't offer a 356 kit.

Sandy
01-04-06, 02:28 PM
Ted, I agree, see & understand your points, (well except the Town Car bit). My daily driver is a 2003 Town Car Signature Spring Feature model, "THE LIMITED" ~ I have found it to be a most comfortable and problem-free car, with all the luxury touches & bells & whistles. Yes, at 239 H.P. it does not delver sudden bursts of power. I've had 3 Lincolns: 1986 Mark 7 1998 Mark 8 and the '03 Towniee. Also 2 Caddies; 1988 SDV and my current "Show car" a 1993 Sixty Special (a one off ~ made especially for me at Orion) with 9,821 miles on it, mulitple trophy winner. Don't even ask about Imperials. Parents had 22 consecutive, and I had a 1975 & a 1982 Bustleback Cpe. in GOLD, 1 of 57. Know what ya mean 'bout college, as our son is a senior, presently. $35.000 @ yr. (USA) ~ but he got a scholorship, he's a 3.75 GPA.:thumbsup:

http://www.smatarese.com/forum/sandy/

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-06, 02:30 PM
Sandy, I always liked those 81-83 Imperials, What was it like to drive and own? Did you like it a lot?

lacmang
01-04-06, 08:24 PM
I will say this I wish GM had Chrysler's BALLS!

Sandy
01-04-06, 09:08 PM
It was a joy to drive & own. I can think of no faults it had. It was quick, silent and drew ALOT of looks & thumbs up. HOWEVER, they all (1981-1983) had driveabilty problems with the early EFI designed for Chrysler by TRW. I sold it after only 14 months, as I diod not want the EFI to go bad in my ownership and hav eot be conveted to Cordoba carburation. I paid $ 16,100 (after a $3,000 rebate) and sold her for $ 14,000 on her 14th month.
Shje was Goldenrod ~ (bright gold metallic) with Camel Tan leather. That was 1 of 2 new colors for 1982, which is why I chose it.

http://images.webkrafters.com/trinity/20700/82chrys20710-A.JPG
Not my actual car - but one like it !

90Brougham350
01-04-06, 09:41 PM
I will say this I wish GM had Chrysler's BALLS!

I couldn't say it any simpler!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-06, 09:59 PM
It was a joy to drive & own. I can think of no faults it had. It was quick, silent and drew ALOT of looks & thumbs up. HOWEVER, they all (1981-1983) had driveabilty problems with the early EFI designed for Chrysler by TRW. I sold it after only 14 months, as I diod not want the EFI to go bad in my ownership and hav eot be conveted to Cordoba carburation. I paid $ 16,100 (after a $3,000 rebate) and sold her for $ 14,000 on her 14th month.
Shje was Goldenrod ~ (bright gold metallic) with Camel Tan leather. That was 1 of 2 new colors for 1982, which is why I chose it.

http://images.webkrafters.com/trinity/20700/82chrys20710-A.JPG
Not my actual car - but one like it !

They were gorgeous cars I agree, with very nice interiors and I think that "Frank Sinatra" edition is really neat too, but a lot did end up getting converted back to carbs. I wonder why they never sold well compared to the Eldorados or Mark Vi's.

90Brougham350
01-04-06, 10:42 PM
I wonder why they never sold well compared to the Eldorados or Mark Vi's.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess the styling, lol. To each his own, but that thing is hideous! That's an Impy? I saw one of those at the junk yard last summer, thing was pretty much debadged and cleaned out, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-06, 11:57 PM
I really like the wheels they had standard on 'em.
http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/SpottersGuide/front-view.jpg

ted tcb
01-05-06, 12:45 AM
Sandy, my comments on the king of the hill tests, ie Town Cars, is based upon horsepower and market demographics. It really doesn't compete as a pure driver's car in the 300hp plus market with the STS V or hopped up Chrysler SRT motors. I'm guessing the new Imp will offer more than the ponies under the hood than the basic hemi motor.
Having said that, I've driven to Florida from Ontario in two different TC's, and they are superb highway cruisers ... plenty of power, supreme road isolation, decent sound systems. I've also driven down in my father's 90 fwd Fleetwood, and the TC was more comfortable in pleasant weather ... snow in the hills, and I'll take the caddy.
As a previous fwd Fleetwood owner, I'm seriously jealous of your 60 Special. An absolutely gorgeous machine ... every one that comes for sale up here have had multiple owners and are beat to hell.

We've had one Imp in our family ... a metallic brown, '77 NYK Brougham with road wheels and leather ... basically a 74-77 Imperial ... nice car with a 440 lean burn.
I too had an LSC ... 1988, drove her to Fla. and back ... nicest sport cruiser for the day.
For me, I'd love to pick up a 98 Mk VIII in Toreador red, hid headlamps, puddle lamps, improved tranny ... really an undervalued car. I just have to find the right one, hopefully with the air blend door replaced.

Here's a pic of one car I'll never get rid of ... my '71 Cutlass Supreme. Too many sentimental moments in her ... my favourite car.

ted tcb
01-05-06, 12:49 AM
Try again with those Cutlass pics.

ted tcb
01-05-06, 12:51 AM
One more.

ted tcb
01-05-06, 12:55 AM
Obiously, not my bag.

Sandy
01-05-06, 10:17 AM
He He He, so...you know about the ole blend door, do ya? :D
I actually kept my 98 MK8 FIVE years. During that tme, I averaged a
serious problem every 6 weeks. I kept it that long as I was keeping
a log of the world's worse luxury car. Everything that could, went
wrong. It had every option, and was an end-of-the -run "Collector's~Edition" ~~ one of 1265 (I think) it was # 903. Pearl White with tan interior. ONLY reason I bought another Lincoln was the terrific care my dealer took of me, with free loaners of Town Cars, and alot of other perks.
Now, I've had the TC for 2 years & 9 months, and have yet to have "Problem #1" ~ So, I am happy with it. I think that the T.C. competes with the DeVillle and (2006) DTS at Cadillac, for the same buyer.

Nice Cutlass, put some red-line tires on her.

ted tcb
01-05-06, 10:28 AM
Actually, since I snapped the Cutlass pics, I've put on some nice whitewalls.
It made a huge difference in the car's appearance ... I even had it featured in a major Toronto daily paper. There's something to be said for exiting a turn with rwd, top down, and gunning that rocket 350.
Its the only car I've owned that goes up in value ... I have to get her appraised every 5 years for collector's insurance.

Katshot
01-05-06, 02:13 PM
Needs RWL tires IMO. I LOVE those old Cutlass's!!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-05-06, 03:33 PM
I actually kept my 98 MK8 FIVE years. During that tme, I averaged a serious problem every 6 weeks. I kept it that long as I was keeping a log of the world's worse luxury car. Everything that could, went
wrong. It had every option, and was an end-of-the -run "Collector's~Edition" ~~ one of 1265 (I think) it was # 903. Pearl White with tan interior. .

How bad was it, what were the major problems? I really love the Mark VIII's and I would love to get one, but I dont wanna buy a car with a lot of problems.

Sandy
01-05-06, 10:15 PM
1. The HID headlights blow out, because of an ill-installed exterior headlight cover, allowing moisture in along with dampness, that finds its way to the socket:bonkers: . Thusly, they blow. Not bad under OEM warrantee, as I was, but $250.00 apice, afterwards.

2. The driver's side bucket seat is known to suddenly, without warning, nor provocation, RRRRrrrrip right thru the floor pan, providing the driver with "instant recliner" option. It order to repair, the car goes on lift, and needs steel plates welded BOTH to the underside of the chassis AND under the carpet, on the inside, because the bolt causes the floor pan to "mushroom".

3. The LED crystal in the wall to wall taillamps goes limpy (light-to dark-to normal-to light- to dark) sections. EXPENSIVE !

4. AM Radio has incurable terribble horrible constant static. Useless.

5. Actually eats up brake rotors every 3,000 miles. I had 18,000 miles when I sold it @ 5 years of age and was on set # 6 of front brake rotors.

6. Steering Wheel ShAkE ! Going down looong hills, and using the required braking, - about 1/2 down steering wheel begin JuMpInG all over the place, with Parkinson's decease.

7. Rear Window. The rear window has an exterior moulding (black) that goes 360 degrees, all around the perimeter of the glass. After 3-4 years in the sunshine, the cold and the climaticx changes, said moulding get lumpy wavey l
un un nu and it cannot be replaced use the electric rear window defroster glass window is also replaced $ 1,200.00 for a nice new moulding.

8. Then, there's the old blend door on the Air Conditioning. Of the 5 summers I had the car, 4 of them it suddenly began blowing heat on me in July / August. Under warrantee the first 3 years, it cost me $ 1,000 to "fix" the 4th year.

9. Fuel Release button on driver's side lower door panel (you push it & the fuel door releases) but.... push just slightly TOO hard and the little button falls down doen down into the lower door panel. Removing door panel is then necessary to re-fuel.

10. Ash Tray. I don't smoke in any car, ever, but I did fill it with hard candy for "dry mouth" syndrome. You push a spot on the top cover door and she 1st dips downward, and then opens up. EXCEPT for when she slightly dips downward and the thin plastic mechanism breaks, the the ash tray cover falls down INTO the compartment. The Fix? An entire new center console ($1,475.00), as it's NON-fixable, but you will get a new one WITH the new console.

Other than that, they are fine :alchi:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-05-06, 10:32 PM
Goddamn Fords!

Sandy
01-06-06, 12:09 AM
You asked!

Sorry about the many typos, but the telephone has been ringing every 10 minutes tonight.....I do NOT miss my Mark 8 even one little bit :banghead:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-06, 12:33 AM
Well im not gonna think of all Mark VIII's as a "stinking pile of dogshit" but I will take your advice into consideration...I'm positive there are many Mark VIII owners out there that are ecstatic with their cars, and have never had a bad experience with them, but I think you are just unlucky with yours. Like my deVille leaks coolant through the block, now I know that this was caused due to neglect of the previous owners, and I dont think all 4.9's will leak coolant, its just something to keep in mind :)

Lord Cadillac
01-06-06, 03:01 AM
You asked!

Sorry about the many typos, but the telephone has been ringing every 10 minutes tonight.....I do NOT miss my Mark 8 even one little bit :banghead:
Not to change the subject, but holy crap am I glad I chose the Eldorado Touring Coupe over the Mark VIII!

ReagansRollsRoyce
01-06-06, 03:20 AM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/ef0ne/Jesse/File0110.jpg
NOTE THE SIDE SCULPTURE LINE ON THE REAR QUARTER PANEL, THE DIP ON THE REAR DOOR,
AND HOW IT MEETS THE HORIZONTAL LOWER SCULPTURE. IT'S QUITE PRONOUNCED ON THE DOOR.



Hmm. I would rank it above Art & Science Cadillac but for a new car today I'd still buy either the Lincoln Town Car L (if that's still made since it's the only properly long car out there) or the Jag XJ8 for classic appearance.

I do think it looks awfully short and psuedo-Rolls.

I ditto whoever said above that they wished GM had Chrysler's balls though.

Katshot
01-06-06, 08:47 AM
My son had a MKVIII and the car was actually very reliable. Sandy, your list DID ring a few bells but, after knowing several Lincoln/Cadillac owners, I can tell you that the grass IS NOT greener on either side. For every sad story from a MKVIII owner, there's one from a Seville/Eldo owner. IMO, overall, those cars are close to even as far as headaches and heartburn inducing problems but at least the MKVIII has that wonderful engine! Styling is subjective of course but for my money, I like the looks of the MKVIII better than a Seville/Eldo.

Randy_W
01-06-06, 08:51 AM
Parts of the car work, just not together. Anybody that thinks that brown lump of llama shit looks better than a newer Caddy, probably likes Rossane better than Jennifer Love Hewitt!:thepan:

Randy_W
01-06-06, 08:56 AM
but at least the MKVIII has that wonderful engine!

That in stock form gets a beating from the ETC/STS!
The Ford engine used in Lincolns is easy to mod though, just like the Chevy engine in your Cadillac. Most people with these cars don't mod them, but for those that do, having a less unique engine pays off.

ted tcb
01-06-06, 11:14 AM
Sandy, count yourself lucky with your MkVIII ownership.
What, no tranny or air suspension woes?

I always felt my 89 LSC looked far tougher than the next generation marks, which definitely had a more feminine look.

I guess a used Eldorado makes more sense from a mechanical perspective.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-06, 08:44 PM
I think you can put the springs or coils from the Thunderbirds onto the Mark VIII's

Sandy
01-06-06, 10:56 PM
No.....No tranny nor suspension troubles. I think I had enough, regardless.

I have no trouble with my '03 T.C. Limited, and I like it very much. However, there is one car that a friends has, that I drove for an extended time period, and I fell in love with it, and I really really want to order an '06 {the final year}. I love the 4-wheel steering "feel" asnd the power and the power reclining rear seats, and the style of the interior, and the uniqeness of the exterior and the overall "feel" & responce of the car. But, I REALLY don't want to patronize a non-domestic car company, and would rather buy a homeland product, and also the car is just too expensive for me, at $ 64,500. It's the "Q" at Infiniti > Q45.
My son does & buys & gets whatever he wants, even if I am against it. My wife does not spend too much, she is good that way, but outside of cautious spending habits, she damn well does whatever she wants, even if I don't like it~ MAYBE, I should follow the examples they set ???
:stirpot: a little :)

Katshot
01-07-06, 09:10 AM
I think you can put the springs or coils from the Thunderbirds onto the Mark VIII's

Actually there's plenty of aftermarket companies that offer coil kits that it's not worth playing around with used stuff. We did a coil conversion on my son's MKVIII ourselves in a couple hours and it was a snap. The whole thing cost something like $500 as I recall, and you can chose your trim height. My son went with a 2" drop I think.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-07-06, 09:10 PM
Yeah and It would ride almost as good as the air bags would.

Katshot
01-08-06, 11:24 AM
Actually, the car rode BETTER than with the airbags IMO.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-08-06, 02:45 PM
Really? It was smoother?

Katshot
01-08-06, 05:29 PM
Yeah. Could be that the new stuff we installed was just that, NEW. Who knows though. You ever take a car with 80-90K miles and put a new set of 4 strut/shocks on it? The car feels like new again right? That's kind of how this felt, except that it felt a little tighter to me. Still had a smooth ride though, and now looked hot because of the lowering.Those look REAL mean after lowering.

Lord Cadillac
01-11-06, 03:10 PM
Pictures can be seen here:
http://www.netcarshow.com/chrysler/2006-imperial_concept/

Beefmalone
04-09-06, 12:57 PM
I own 8 Imperials so I feel qualified to make the statement that that car is butt-arse UGLY. The front is a failed attempt to add an Imperial hallmark to a 300 and the rear looks like it's off a Kia (I forget which one)...not to mention it's way to SHORT.

PAULSTSMAN1
04-09-06, 08:40 PM
The Imperial should be sleeker not so chubby looking. As for interior, a butter cream with exterior color piping. Forget the suicide doors, just make the locks like a Mercedes, and use an air suspension. The engine should be a 383 based engine rated at 300 HP.

As for bringing back the Fleetwood, yes as a more contemporary Full Sized Cadillac, with classic styling and better handling, and engine displacement Fleetwood 5.0.