Well, if all of you remember my ex-girlfriend's 1991 Sedan de Ville, or if you don't here's the shots from the day we bought it....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91frontleft.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91dash.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91right.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91hoodpose.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91operalight.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/DopeStar156/1991%20Cadillac%20Sedan%20de%20Ville/tesscaddy91hishers.jpg

Well she told me today she plans to move to Manhattan and won't need a car there so she's thinking she should sell it. She told me she'd sell it to me discounted because she wants to sell it to someone she knows will take care of it. Now the car has around the same mileage my Fleetwood has, around 130k. 4.9 V8, new cat, muffler, power steering, and sadly because she's been driving with a blindfold on apparently, new hood, grille, headlights, and a new fender and front end from a previous accident. Car's in great cosmetic shape and mechanical, you just can't kill her car, she's tried many times.... Haha. So yeah any thoughts? I absolutely love her car. I've driven it tons of times and it is fun, but in a way different way than my Fleetwood. Custom landau top and opera lamps. leather interior, the works. The only thing that has to go are the wheels. I don't like those wheels, I want these instead.....

http://carad.ebayimg.com/i7/02/a/05/bf/10/20_4.JPG

I have a set of those wheels if you get the car and want to change them.

Blaze

Dope, you say the deville is fun in a different way than your Brougham, what exactly do you mean? I know the deVille is more modern, quicker, and better handling..but it lacks the Brougham's presence and charisma. The Brougham is also much more old school and much less "garden variety".

That is a good choice to change the rims to the other OEM style Deville alloys.:thumbsup: That is what I have on my car.

What I mean is both cars are tons of fun to drive, but are completely different in the way they ride, handle, and perform. The Fleetwood Brougham has more of a cloud like ride. The car feels like it has no wheels and just floats. It handles in a more traditional way because it's RWD, and even though the acceleration is pretty poor off the start the car has tons of torque and overall power and can really unleash the beast. The DeVille has a much different ride. It rides smooth still but it's tighter, not smooth like the Fleetwood, but smooth none the less. The car handles tightly and really flies. The DeVille is very peppy, it has get-up-and-go. It however lacks the monsterous, tyrannic, behemoth power and presence of the Fleetwood. So they're two entirely different cars from two entirely different worlds, however they are both awesome cars and are both orgasms on wheels to a driver like myself. If I get it it will take over most of my Fleetwood's tasks that I wouldn't mind handing over to it such as going to work or the mall, or pretty much anywhere I wouldn't wanna take my Fleetwood.

I remember when I drove a '90 Brougham D'elegance it felt like it was totally disconnected from the ground, almost like a 90's Town Car. The Brougham was a little bit scary on a curvy road at 5 over the speed limit. The steering is very vague. But the handling wasn't very bad at all. The car stayed planted through the turns, and all though the steering gave very little feedback, you knew where it was going. My '92 SDV felt like a sports car after that Brougham. The hood on that brougham seems a mile long, and it seems as though the hood on the deVille is wider and harder to see where it ends. The Broughams' hood is much straighter and flatter than the devilles.
I would loved to have gotten that car, even if the 307 was a dog.

Yeah I slow down on turns but I'm used to the car so I can maneuver it with no problems. I also noticed the difference with the hoods, but the Fleetwood's hood is more straight and narrow as opposed to the DeVille's which looks short and wide.

I have a set of those wheels if you get the car and want to change them.
Blaze
I'll keep that in mind.... What would you wanna do? Sell or trade?

I also noticed the difference with the hoods, but the Fleetwood's hood is more straight and narrow as opposed to the DeVille's which looks short and wide.

Its funny because the deville's hood is shorter and narrower than the Broughams. The Brougham has a massive hood, I mean my hood is 54" long (yes I measured it) and the Brougham's seems about a foot longer. I think its because the Brougham has those very evident hood creases and the devilles are more subtle.

I dunno what the hood is in inches but I can lay on it and spread my arms out and my finger tips will reach the windshield and headlights. I'm also 6 feet tall.

im gonna bring a tape measurer next time I go to the junkyard and measure various cars hoods..I hope they have a Brougham or Town Car.

Hmm, here's a question. This particular 91 has the traditional analog speedometer. I am more of a fan of the digital one. Can I swap out the original analog one and replace it with a digital speedo? Is it a simple plug in swap or do I need to do something else? Also is there a way to program the odometer mileage in the new digital instruments? I would swap out the analog set with the digital set if it's just a simple plug in swap.

Hmm, here's a question. This particular 91 has the traditional analog speedometer. I am more of a fan of the digital one. Can I swap out the original analog one and replace it with a digital speedo? Is it a simple plug in swap or do I need to do something else? Also is there a way to program the odometer mileage in the new digital instruments? I would swap out the analog set with the digital set if it's just a simple plug in swap.
Unfortunately it would be more than you would want to get into. The thing in the tank would have to be changed, wiring harnesses, speed sensors, the whole nine yards.

Blaze

Ahh crap. Ok.... Dammit I wanted a digital speedo! What thing in the tank?

DS,dont worry about the analog 85mph ribbon style speedo, its kind of neat to have a throwback to the old style speedos, and its VERY easy to bury the needle ;) And if you really want the digital speedometer, there is one in the Diagnostic mode. EO9 I believe is the speedo.

I have one with the old style speedo. I might have a shop do it though, depending on how much they'd want to do it, but I'm getting ahead of myself.... I don't even have the car. What would a 91 DeVille with 130k go for anyway? If I had to guess, somewhere between $1,500 - $2,000?

oh yeah I forgot your '89 has it. A 91 deville with 130k miles goes for around $1960 according to blue book

Hmmmm.... Let's hope I pay way less. LOL! I'm hoping for $1,000. Haha.

Unfortunately it would be more than you would want to get into. The thing in the tank would have to be changed, wiring harnesses, speed sensors, the whole nine yards.
Blaze

Hmmm??? It's actually not that difficult to do. If you have ever installed a headunit by yourself, you could convert to the digital. However, the odometer mileage is the one hangup. That stays in the cluster, and to change it requires considerable modification. But installing it and having it work as Cadilac intended? Not difficult at all.

Hmmm??? It's actually not that difficult to do. If you have ever installed a headunit by yourself, you could convert to the digital. However, the odometer mileage is the one hangup. That stays in the cluster, and to change it requires considerable modification. But installing it and having it work as Cadilac intended? Not difficult at all.
Nice, mind going though it with me? You could PM me if you want or just drop it here since I'm sure others might wanna know about it too. Thanks.

Nice, mind going though it with me? You could PM me if you want or just drop it here since I'm sure others might wanna know about it too. Thanks.

I'll dig up the post I made with the write up in a sec, but off the top of my head, the biggest challenge was running two wires down to the Fuel data center, and legenthing a wire or two.

Edit: Here you go, take a look at posts 9 and 10 http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20454

Ok, I'll look at it in a minute or so. Thanks, just got home and I'm pretty beat...

Sedan De-what?

oh... yeah.... ummm....nice car... shes pretty. :)

Hahaha she's my ex. Yeah she's very pretty. I was waiting for you to chime in on this. What's your opinion on the car? THE CAR!!! haha.

oh... car...gotcha..... let me re-read the post...

ok...

I would say go for it!

First, those wheels, are the "base" DeVille wheels.... they are my favorite of all wheels for the DeVille in 1993.

130k is fine for the car.

It would be a much better daily driver, IMO then the Fleetwood.

Did you ever get that '79 Coupe? will your parents let you have 3 cars? if you didn't get it, are you going to run into the same problems trying to get this as you did with the Coupe?

It seems like a great car though... I am not a fan of the aftermarket half-top roof, or the all dark blue interior, but for the price and condition, it really dosn't matter, and if you like it, then it really dosn't matter :).

I would say go for it, its a great car.

Are you still thinking about that '94 Fleetwood Dope?

Are you still thinking about that '94 Fleetwood Dope?
Naah I'm gonna walk on that.... Same thing with the 79 Coupe. As stated before I want a new daily driver so the DeVille is a much more practical choice. Rick, what kind of performance am I looking at with this 4.9 DeVille? In terms of fuel economy and HP? I'm sure I can talk my parents into this seeing as it's a deal and I want it as a daily driver. They might bend for me.

performance?

my '93 Coupe ran a best of 15.9 @ 85mph at the track.... more weight then stock in it and it wasn't a full tune up at the time.

It's about even with a '99+ Grand Am GT... I'm a bit faster off the line, the Grand Am pulls ahead from 90+ on the highway.... once 3rd gear on the 4.9 cars hits, it slows down.

200hp

275 ft-lbs torque

it SHOULD be getting 16mpg town and 25mpg highway.

I *used* to get 18mpg town and 28mpg highway.

I dunno why, but my highway milage has been pretty bad.... the whole trip down from NY it was about 22mpg... yeah, the car was loaded to the max, but still. I wonder if the TPS being set wrong had anything to do with it.

I currently get about 16mpg town... maybe less... but its lots of stop and go traffic here, and gosh, I drive with a heavy foot.

My car has a little hiccup I really havn't tried to figure out yet (gas mileage) otherwise at 113k miles, she runs and drives like new..... just looks worse and worse with the stupid paint problem.

Keep in mind the car was designed around 1980..... the chassis is the same from 1985, which really came out in 1984, and it had to be designed a few years prior.... so I look at my '93 as a car right from 1980 or so, same with my Olds since it is the sister chassis designed in the same year.... which is why the '94 DeVille is light years ahead of the '93 DeVille in terms of "newness" design, style, body etc...

In my case, I would like to retire the '93 Coupe from daily driver use.... simply because I am tired of it... not so much "it" but luxury cars.... well, "cars" in general.... I badly want a Jeep Wrangler... but thats another story.

I will say one thing, the '93 is a much better DD then the '79 is.... I love the '79 far more after the recent mega-trip with that (more on that later) but it does kinda get old after awhile, so the '93 is a nice change.... then when I get tired of that, I go back to the '79.

Honestly, my 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight Royale is perhaps the most well-rounded "car" I could ever want, or own.... but THATS a whole nother story :).

IIRC 1991 made ABS standard. FWD and ABS will help you alot in the snow, since you do get plenty of snow in Joysee, that would be pretty good.... just get some good all-seasons on it. I have Good Year Weather Handler LS tires (white walls) on the Oldsmobile and it was amazing in the snow.

the '91 Sedan will be a better, more practical car for you to use on a day-to-day basis.... I kinda wish I had a '91-'93 Sedan, in ok shape to use as a daily driver while I put the Coupe away.... but I don't, and I am not buying another '91-'93 DeVille.... if anything, I'll bring the '79 to my mothers and her faincee's place this Spring when their new house will be done (200 miles from me in FL) buy one of those mini garages things, pull the plates and put them on the Oldsmobile, then drive that down and use it down here..... the car (Olds) has a rust issue... but I decided to just drive it while I can and enjoy it..... I can't say enough about that car and I know it would be a better DD then the '93 or '79 is right now... because it was back in NY :)

lots of rambling.... if you have anything specific to ask, just let me know :)

Yeah the 1991-93 deVilles are almost as quick as a LT1 Fleetwood around town, but on the highway, the FWB would pull away. But yeah, the 91-93 devilles are a great daily driver. They're more garden variety than your '89 and are probably much better in the snow. They are better handling too, and much quicker which can be fun. I would love to get a big Brougham or a Mark IV and have the deVille be the winter/weekday car.

Hey Night Wolf what is wrong with your paint on you 93 Deville? :confused: From some of the pictures I have seen of the car it looks to be in flawless condition.

I guess the clearcoat (?) is fading in some spots

Good bits of info... Her's I believe is in peak mechanical condition and prolly gets the best possible fuel economy. Where I live it's all 40 MPH roads and highways so my Fleetwood has lots of room to gallop, however when I get into town that's where we slow down to 25 with lots of city blocks and traffic lights. I don't have a problem with fuel economy really. My Fleetwood I fill from a third of a tank with close to 300 miles on the trip odometer. I mainly want the DeVille because it's more practical and I'd like to keep the Fleetwood sheltered. I like the DeVille because of the styling, and all the little electronic stuff my Fleetwood doesn't have like the fuel data center, oil life indicator, computer command ride, and the biggest and my most favorite difference, Port Fuel Injection. The Q-Jet is nice and believe me there's nothing like dumping fuel into an engine nor is there anything like that feeling on the highway when you bury that pedal and feel the third and forth barrels open up. It's just that there's little to no trouble with a FI system and I miss that. I also want the DeVille because it's quicker. I got a friend with a 4 -cyl Sunfire whose head is just too big and needs to be schooled. Haha. I do love that particular DeVille because I've gotten so acquainted with it and attached. I'd hate to see it go.

Yeah, the handling is worlds better.... and there are still stuff you can do to improve it.

After driving the '79 for a week and making the 1,400 mile trip, I got back to my apartment, fired up the '93 Coupe, and as soon as I got out on the road I kept my foot into it as I made a few sweeping turns, Chris (friend that came down with me) was like woha, slow down... I was like, eh, this isn't the '79.... that car just feels planted to the road and handles really nice. The Oldsmobile did handle better though.. smaller and lighter, plus it has the firm ride and handling option, then I added a strut bar... even with 4 worn struts it still handled really good. When I pushed that car hard, the front end would start to skip... could feel it in the wheel and stuff, not so with the '93, I never had that problem.

The older tires, though worn, made the '79 handle alot better... they were, IIRC 235/75/15 the new tires are 225/70/15, and I can definitly tell the difference, it handles pretty bad now, but oh well.

4.9 Cad AND LT1 Fleetwood are about even stock, neither are "fast" either. Yeah the LT1 has lots of potential, but stock, in the Fleetwood it isn't a Mustang killer or anything.

Yeah, the clearcoat on the Coupe is fading, it is happening on all horizontal surfaces now.... getting pretty bad, and it'll only get worse... pisses me off too.

About the carburator thing.... the PFI really dosn't do much for driveability in my mind, if the carburater isn't 30 years old without a rebuild, and is tuned well, you'll never know. About the only real driveability benifit to the PFI over carb is the winter starting.... it is more easy, even then, when I used the '79 in the winter, 5minutes to warm up it was good to go. Here in FL, I don't have to worry about that.

Fuel Injection isn't as worry-free as it may seem either....not that it fails often, or many times, but there is stuff to go wrong and it can get pretty involved.... then all of a sudden a carburator slapped ontop the engine dosn't seem like a bad idea anymore :)

If you think a 307 Brougham is fast on the highway, then the 4.9 will definitly wow you, even though they are not all that fast themself on the highway.

Personally, IMO if I had to choose '89 Brougham or '91 DeVille, it would definitly be the Brougham, for many reasons...... but in your case, I think the '91 would be a nice addition, and its cheap, and great to have a 2nd car too.

Oh yeah, I've had a 4.9 DeVille out on the highway before. Actually this one.... There used to be a slight vibration around 75 MPH but that was before the new front end was put in so that might be gone. Ahh the more I think about getting this car the more excited I get and I won't see anything until the summertime. Plus I need to put some serious cash away.

One thing was kinda itching me here..... Someone before mentioned having to mess with something in the gas tank if I wanted to convert the car to a digital speedometer. Why do I have to mess with the fuel tank if the gas gague is already digital? Also does anyone have any idea where I could get a digital speedo or perhaps even have one I could take off their hands? Dave thanks for the instructions, these should be helpful. I have installed a headunit before on my old Lincoln and that shit worked.

yeah, i heard about that too...

I don't think you gotta touch the gas tank or anything, the gas gauge isn't even part of the cluster, nor does it use the same wiring harness... I don't think you'll have to worry about that.

where to find one? Junkyards... pretty much it, or ebay.

Yea, you dont need to do anything else anywhere to the car except right at the dash. Just about everything you would need is right there. I did that conversion on carnerd's old coupe Deville awhile back. Worked flawlessly, including having the English/Metric button switch over the Climate control and fuel displays (but you might not want to wire that in, not worth the wire routing... have to bring a wire over to the BCM. You dont really need it anyway)

Well if it's not too hard I'd finish the job and wire the Eng/Met button. I kinda like having that feature.

Well if it's not too hard I'd finish the job and wire the Eng/Met button. I kinda like having that feature.

It's in an interesting spot. Cadillac brought the wire all the way over to right around to the area behind the climate control panel, where it just stops on analog cluster equipped cars. The wire originates from the BCM. I figured it would be easier to just splice into the wire at the BCM, much easier to find and access. For clarification, with this wire disconnected, the speedometer and odometer will still change whenever the button is pushed, just not the fuel data and climate control panels. If you just wanted to see the speedometer in km/h, you would be set.

On average, how long would the swap take to do? An hour maybe?

On average, how long would the swap take to do? An hour maybe?
Sounds about right, maybe an hour and a half. Depends if you have done dash work on the car before.
Don't know if you have ever pulled a Deville dash pad off, but its not too bad of a job. First, pop out all the front vents. There are screws behind each. Then there are some up by the defroster grille (angled, so you can use a regular screwdriver). There may also be two in the glovebox pointing straight up. Not sure though, might be thinking of my car. After that, the top pad should just lift out. Next remove the wood trim around the FDC and CCP. Pop out the small wood trim piece directly under the column to access two screws. At the top of the twilight sentinel and window child lock (or cruise control) switch "block" there is a screw angled downward. Remove these and the two end pieces flip down and lift out. There are two screws (one on either side) behind these for the center piece. In a similar location, there are screws above the "blocks" for climate control and fuel data. Now the center piece should be removable. On the column bowl, theres a small clip (might have a screw in it, I forget) with two small silver cables (looks like fishing line) going to it. Unhook it from the column. Now up by the cluster face, theres a black panel with two screws on either side. remove this first, then remove the two side screws and one top screw holding the cluster in. Should lift right out of the dash. Start making your connections to the new cluster, a small screwdriver is good for depinning the connectors.

You need to grab all the connectors from the junk car. Depin the one wire by wire, matching it up with the wires from the old cluster as you reinsert them. (ie pull the pink/black wire out of the digital cluster plug, and insert the pink/black wire from the analog in the same spot) I think it was 4 wires that didn't reach. They need to be extended about 6 inches IIRC. Now with the warning lights done, take the other plug from the digital cluster (the one for the digital portion) and match the wires up from the old harness the same way. They are NOT the same pins however, so cut off the old pin, and connect the wire to the new plug. (I think there was six wires going to it) Two of these need to be spliced into wires at the fuel data center (or climate control panel) Off the top of my head, I think it was orange/black and purple. Check that diagram though to be sure. One needs any convenient 12v constant power source. After that, your pretty much done.

It sounds like a lot, but say the dash pad? I can have it out in a matter of minutes. It's easy just as long as you know where all the screws are, and what needs to come apart and what doesn't.

gosh.. I have taken the dash pad.... and door panels....glove box and all the stuff in the dash out and back in far more times then I care to count.... atleast a dozen.... ahhh....sorry bout that :)

I've never taken the dash apart for any reason before. Is it that hard to do?

Here we go....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Deville-Fleetwood-Speedometer-Cluster-1991_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33678QQitemZ802542 9628QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/01/d9/69_1.JPG

Is there a way to alter the mileage since the seller has no clue what the mileage is?

Here we go....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Deville-Fleetwood-Speedometer-Cluster-1991_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33678QQitemZ802542 9628QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/01/d9/69_1.JPG
Is there a way to alter the mileage since the seller has no clue what the mileage is?

Nice. That price is a smidgen high though, and MAKE SURE it comes with the plugs and some wiring harness! You have any decent local junkyards? I bought one for $11. If it's gaurnteed to work though, might be worth it. With the bone yard it's a crap shoot. (there usually not bad unless the car has a busted out windshield though)

For most intents and purposes, treat the mileage as non-changable. You would need to go fiddling with the EEPROM and all kinds of fun stuff. Not exactly easy stuff for someone without the right equipment. Ask the seller about the PRNDL pointer. If its still really springy and slides smoothly just by tugging on that silver cable in the pic, odds are the mileage is not too bad.

The dash may take awhile if it is the first time you pulled it. it depends though. Rick or myself? could probably have the thing apart in 5 minutes. (on that note.... If you want to get speakers for it, now would be a good time to put the front ones in, as that needs to come apart anyway....)

I felt the same way about the price and the mileage is unknown anyway so I passed on it. I'm sure it won't be too hard to find. What are all the parts I need to get to change the thing out?

Just the cluster itself and the connectors that go into the back (with a little bit of wire)