Finally did it....

Just happened to stumble upon a '95 Brougham for sale at a local used car lot when I was doing my usual surfing on Autotrader.com. Emailed them to ask if it was still available and the owner got back to me saying it was, but a few people had also inquired about it from Autotrader like me--but he would get back to me if it sold before I got there.

Specs:
-'95 Fleetwood Brougham...they have an AutoTrader price of $4,995
-117k miles, local car all its life (eastern shore MD/DE)
-Marblehead Metallic w/ light Beige leather
-Full-size spare
-...looking up the other option codes as I type, so I'll add any of those later...
Pulled up and was thrilled to see how nice of shape it was in--paint was gleaming, all trim was tight and looked great, and the vinyl roof was perfect. Also has a set of relatively fresh Michelins on it, but they were blackwalls, so it didn't look *that* amazing. Also, the beige leather all looked great and the only defect was one little tear by the driver's side seat controls (VERY common, as you all know).

Took a look around and inside, and the guy came out to see who I was. Told him I emailed about it and asked if it was open and he told me it was. Looked all around the inside, checked out the seats, etc. and then asked for the keys--went inside, and came back with a license plate and the keys. "Just throw the plate on the dash and take it for a spin".:bouncy:

Well, to cut a long story short, the newer LT1 definately has a quieter idle than my '93 and started up immediately. Went to pull out (they're along a highway) and smoked the tires...whoops...:rolleyes:

My impressions:
-LT1 power seems nice and "zingier" than my TBI '93, but honestly not all that much more powerful. Seemed like it would rev quicker and was a lot like the 5.3L in our Suburban, to be honest.
-Steering seemed a LOT tighter than my '93, which I really enjoyed, and which also made me think something on the '93 is really worn...
-Seemed like something might have dragged or, well, I don't know, when I was on the brakes--but it might also have been that at least one of the front tires looked pretty low. Then again, it was about 35 deg. out and the tires might just have been cold.
-Shifted crisply and without any delay, and kicked down really well when I planted it
-REALLY like the bigger, better placed mirrors--didn't have the wind noise my '93 with the stupid little mirrors seems to

Overall, REALLY liked the car and enjoyed the LT1, but my socks weren't blown off as I was kinda expecting. Definately felt like a newer, revvier powertrain than my TBI 350, but when I got back in the '93 to go home, it felt like an old friend...smooth, torquey as hell, and even balsier than the LT1 did at times. The LT1 car could definately kick my '93s arse from a red light, but it didn't have that cool "turbine-like" feel I've always enjoyed with mine.

In truth, it was in better shape than mine--no loose or faded moldings, flawless vinyl top, etc. Only bugs I noticed were the tiny slit in the driver's seat, the kick panel underneath the steering column was hanging down a little, and that the bottom of the power door lock button on the driver's door had sunked in, so you could only unlock from that one.

Regardless, I loved the damn thing, and would buy it in a second--I just gotta figure out if I have the full $5k right now myself and the 'rents would be willing to let me park it somewhere (not really any driveway space left...). So, at the moment, it's a bit like Dopestar's deal.

Anyway, here's the pics (not great, but I did my best given that they were kinda looking at me weird when I was in picture mode...):
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0001a.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0002a.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0003.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0004.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0005.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0006.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0007.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0009.jpg

Nice car. Seems like nice last gen. Fleetwoods are getting harder to find so if you're serious, you might want to grab it. I noticed it's an early '95 as evidenced by the old-style armrest.

Nice car. Seems like nice last gen. Fleetwoods are getting harder to find so if you're serious, you might want to grab it. I noticed it's an early '95 as evidenced by the old-style armrest.

Precisely my thoughts. Today, even finding a badly colored '93 TBI car is hard enough....stumbling upon a '95 LT1 that's not only in a beautiful color combo, but in awesome shape overall for under $5k is next to impossible.

I'm always interested in the "under $5k" cars, but all I ever seem to find anymore are not so nice '93s or really ragged '94s, a lot of which are never in very nice colors. And they're usually quite a distance away too.

This one has all the good attributes (and I certainly gave it a shake down:cool2: ), is a very good price, is at a very well respected family run dealer, AND is just 30 mins away. I keep thinking "just wait until spring...just wait until spring" because I'm only halfway through my current year of college, but I think if I keep waiting, the pickings are only going to get slimmer.

When I told the guy I had emailed someone about it, he kind of smiled and said "Oh...you saw it on Autotrader, didn't you?", apparently because a few people have been inquiring, but I've been one of the only ones to actually see and drive the car, since I live so close.

I'll be back at work tomorrow--the bank--and am definately going to try and figure out if there's a way I can make it happen.

Different armrest? what did they do different? Mine is that one. Is it more like my mom's 97 Deville armrest? (twin popout cupholders?)

Nice car. Seems like nice last gen. Fleetwoods are getting harder to find so if you're serious, you might want to grab it. I noticed it's an early '95 as evidenced by the old-style armrest.

Nice ride! nearly a twin to mine except mine is a 94 with the same side mirrors you have now. Drop in 3.42's or 3.73's and it might bet better at knocking your socks off.

I'm sure you've read about teh exhaust bolts breaking on the lt1's give it a check before you buy it and if there are missing bolts you can definitely get the price to go lower or maaaaaybe get them to fix it.

A broken exhaust bolt on the heads would definitely caused decreased its really hard to know if that '95 u drove is properly tuned etc. on my caddy I remember when i bought it the car blew my socks off I was so amazed by the power but shortly after it lost its power for about 2 years and then I found the missing exhaust bolt that was causing a hissing sound. After I replaced that exhaust bolt everything has been back to normal.

I'm sure you've read about teh exhaust bolts breaking on the lt1's give it a check before you buy it and if there are missing bolts you can definitely get the price to go lower or maaaaaybe get them to fix it.

A broken exhaust bolt on the heads would definitely caused decreased its really hard to know if that '95 u drove is properly tuned etc. on my caddy I remember when i bought it the car blew my socks off I was so amazed by the power but shortly after it lost its power for about 2 years and then I found the missing exhaust bolt that was causing a hissing sound. After I replaced that exhaust bolt everything has been back to normal.

Interesting. I had read something quickly, but never really focused on it since we only have 2 TBI cars. It's just the bolts holding the manifold on to the engine, right?

Different armrest? what did they do different? Mine is that one. Is it more like my mom's 97 Deville armrest? (twin popout cupholders?)

Nice ride! nearly a twin to mine except mine is a 94 with the same side mirrors you have now. Drop in 3.42's or 3.73's and it might bet better at knocking your socks off.

Well, the late '95s and all '96s got an armrest that had a solid lid, front to back, and two cupholders that sorta popout of the front--probably like the Deville one you mentioned.

As for the back gears, I confirmed it has the typical Brougham 2:93's, which I LOVE in the '93 as is. The power is something I'm having trouble describing--DEFINATELY peppier than my TBI and didn't need as much of a punch to jump off the line, but not all that different from the '93 overall. Then again, I've always been amazed at how fast my '93 feels, so maybe IT is the oddball;) Overall, I'd just say that it had some serious guts, and really did feel like there was something "sports-performance car" related under the hood.

Did some decoding:

N08: Lock Control, Fuel Filler Door Remote Controlled
N81: Tires, Spare Fullsize
03U: Primary Color, Exterior, Marblehead Grey Metallic (Very PURTY:yup: )
52I: Interior Trim, Lt Neutral (1)

So, it seems like a car about as lightly optioned (basically nothing) as our '93. Only question--what's the fuel filler door lock, ACTUALLY? I have a general idea, but didn't really look at that or mess with it.

fuel filler door lock is pretty cool just keeps the license plate from opening when the doors are locked honestly if someone wants to open it they will with a screwdriver its not too tough but if say someone doesn't know where the gas filler is and they tug on the license plate it won't move so they will have a hard time knowing where to put the gas/crap in.

the exhaust bolts are the ones that bolt to the engine holding the manifold in place they break for many different reaons IMO I htink they break because there are so few of them compared to teh deville that has twice as many bolts etc. and almost the same hp the fwb only has 6 bolts per side

Also when i replaced my right side manifold theres this one piece on the rear of the manifold that was missing when i bought it I read they are made differently now the prevent the rear bolts from breaking.

This is a very common problem at least 50 people have had this problem who knows how many are out there with this problem.

I got a broken bolt with only 50,000 miles on my car it was all stock when it happened too.

fuel filler door lock is pretty cool just keeps the license plate from opening when the doors are locked honestly if someone wants to open it they will with a screwdriver its not too tough but if say someone doesn't know where the gas filler is and they tug on the license plate it won't move so they will have a hard time knowing where to put the gas/crap in.

the exhaust bolts are the ones that bolt to the engine holding the manifold in place they break for many different reaons IMO I htink they break because there are so few of them compared to teh deville that has twice as many bolts etc. and almost the same hp the fwb only has 6 bolts per side

Also when i replaced my right side manifold theres this one piece on the rear of the manifold that was missing when i bought it I read they are made differently now the prevent the rear bolts from breaking.

This is a very common problem at least 50 people have had this problem who knows how many are out there with this problem.

I got a broken bolt with only 50,000 miles on my car it was all stock when it happened too.

GOOD stuff to know. Do the bolts just snap off or what? And as far as replacing, it's pretty much just putting new ones in where they're missing--or is there a whole mess of extracting the broken off end?

Regardless, doesn't sound like too much of a problem. Anybody run into transmission issues on their LT1 cars? There seems to be a general consensus over on at least one of the Impala SS boards that the trans in the '94-96 LT1 cars is a bit weak and failure prone, but I honestly don't know--then again, it could also just be that they're more apt to beat the hell out of and race their cars, so who knows.

Any other, common, '95 (or just '94-96) issues that are easy to spot? I know of pretty much all the physical body and interior "bugs", but not so much when it comes to the mechanicals on the newer ones. Everything about this car seemed very right and very well cared for, and it didn't seem to have even close to the 117k miles on it--like I said, even better feeling and tighter than my '93 with less miles.

Now just have to come up with the cash (or whatever) and scoff it up before some other onlooker who wouldn't care for it as well comes knocking...

Even if it has to sit outside covered and uninsured until next spring, I think the chances of finding another this new and this nice for so little will get smaller and smaller.

Ahhh...what a Fleetwood does to a person:D

the bolts usually break off

most dealers will take a deposit and hold the car for upto a month so they dont sell it

GO FOR IT! Damn that thing is nice!

I still can't believe in the past 50 years of GM building SB's, that this ever happened. GM has built 10's of millions engines with Grade 8 bolts, and then someone switches it....

Probably some production line shortage of Grade 8 and someone made a decision to put on a different bolt because they could get it. Or some cost reduction that got pushed through without engineering approval.

I have seen it in my industry. "We are short of this 10K resistor, can we put a 12K on??" NO, it was designed with a 10K, not a 12K!!!! We used to fill them in a book called "Factory Follies"

the bolts usually break off

most dealers will take a deposit and hold the car for upto a month so they dont sell it

GM engineers told me at the time that the breaking manifold bolts was caused by the wrong size (length) being used. The bolts were installed as usual and torqued as usual but they had basically bottomed-out in the holes and were fractured by the torquing. I also heard that they were just plain over-torqued. Personally, I think it also has to do with the fact that the rear cylinders tend to run a little hotter, so they created a greater amount of thermal cycling on the rear manifold bolts (the rear manifold bolts tend to be the ones that break most). There was also a few that cracked the right-side manifold too.

Now that would make sense, but still hard to believe with 40-50 years of experience in small blocks alone, let alone any other GM engine, that they would have ever allow this to happen.

Mine broke the back on the driver's side, but too cold to mess with right now. Maybe if I do get some time off next week I can mess with it in my brother in laws heated garage. It is just 45 min away, so if I need something, it is a long way back to get it.

I bought an angle drill attachment for my dremel that will handle small drill bits, just perfect sizes to fit in the middle of the broken bolts. I am hoping that I can do it w/o removing the manifold, I have an idea, but I have to try. It will be hard to do that way, as the steering is in the way too. May not be possible too.

I've done every manifold bolt IN THE CAR. It's not easy but it's possible. On the driver's side, just disconnect the steering shaft at the top and push it out of the way. I use an angle air-drill, acetylene torch, and short screw extractors. Works everytime! Make sure to use a center punch on the screw though, and start with the smallest bit and work your way up. I don't think I ever used anything bigger than a 3/16" bit though. Too likely to go off the screw and into the head. Once you do that, you're screwed!

Too likely to go off the screw and into the head. Once you do that, you're screwed!

Boy, that sounds familiar. :bomb:

I bought my FW with two broken bolts on the driver's side and attempted to extract them myself. Managed to drill off center (it is very hard to get the angle just right with the right angle attachment and lack of room in there) and cause damage. :banghead:

But then I decided that if I have to take the engine apart, then it's getting a new camshaft. :sneaky: It all went downhill from there... or uphill maybe! I love that darn car and can't stop modifying it.

FYI...
The way I heard it is that GM used grade 5 or 6 bolts for the exhaust manifolds for all iron-headed LT1 engines which is bad for the application due to heat. Never heard about length being incorrect, but may be the case AFAIK. I always suspected that the rears usually broke due to weight on the back on the manifold being a strees point since the cat converters are just below the rear area. I'm sure combined with extra heat this caused major problems.
Even some LT1 exhaust manifolds were known to break and crack themselves, under the heat shields where you can't see the crack.

What did you use the torch for?

Just to heat things up? I am hoping the manifold doesn't have to come out.

My thoughts are to make a sleeve that fits in the bolt hole, then drill a hole in it that is dead center, then insert the sleeve in the hole, and then drill so I keep on center. Then extract the bolt. with or without the sleeve, depends on if it needs support or not. Shouldn't matter, right?

Were the bolts loose or really tight in there?

I've done every manifold bolt IN THE CAR. It's not easy but it's possible. On the driver's side, just disconnect the steering shaft at the top and push it out of the way. I use an angle air-drill, acetylene torch, and short screw extractors. Works everytime! Make sure to use a center punch on the screw though, and start with the smallest bit and work your way up. I don't think I ever used anything bigger than a 3/16" bit though. Too likely to go off the screw and into the head. Once you do that, you're screwed!

All this broken bolts talk is certainly interesting...in a negative kind of way, I guess:suspense: Doesn't sound like a fun fix, but the damn car is so nice *if* it had the problem, I guess it wouldn't be too much of a chore to fix.

On another note, here's an update as of today:

-Good News: Money situation, at least as far as buying, is A-okay. After checking my accounts (what a collection...), the $5k price is well within my budget.

-Bad News: Parents (well, at least one of them, that is) agree that I could easily afford to buy the car--"That's no problem at all", as mother dearest agreed--but then that the insurance would be the deal breaker. Trying to figure something out as I type this...hmm...

A funny part? My father seems part jealous that I found such a great car for so cheap (compared to his/our current '93 at least) and a bit miffed that I would really want another one...as of late, it's not his favorite car, to the extent that he said "NO. Definately won't be making that mistake again." when I was joking around about a couple '94s that were for sale in the local paper this week. Well, that, and he still thinks of the Roadmaster as the beloved child and as "the superior car" to the Fleetwood...but that's his problem.

Argh...so the only issue, trully, standing in my way right now, is the damn insurance, which was quite an ignorant oversight to forget on my part:rolleyes:

It'd be REALLY nice if I saw the keys to the beast under the tree this weekend, but don't think that will be happening just yet.

Going to try and smooze a bit more tomorrow and see if I can work something out over the whole insurance deal. The more I think about it, I'm just crossing my fingers that it doesn't get sold out from under me.

More thoughts on the LT1 power:
-Yesterday, having driven there 35 minutes in my '93 TBI car, the difference in overall power didn't seem drastically different, but the LT1 car definately was peppier and I *thought* was a lot like the feel of the 5.3L in my mom's 2wd Suburban--NOT so. Just drove that behemoth around a bit today and it definately feels like a slug with a lot of dead spots in the rev range (mostly due to poor trans gearing and a weird throttle). So, in thought, I think the LT1'r could definately take on the TBI car throughout the entire rev and speed range, and would just obliterate the Suburban--which I always thought was one of the punchiest rides I'd driven.

Oh, and strangely enough, the '95 LT1 also seemed quieter and to have LESS of an exaust note than my single piped '93. Roared a bit when I floored it and it kicked down, but otherwise seemed almost a little too quiet. Not bad, just quiet--but that can be a good thing.

Wish it was mine already:rolleyes:

Hi!

Where there is a will, there is a way! While you are diddling around thinking someone else is buying. If you want it, make it happen! You can always sell it later if necessary.

Dave

Oh, and strangely enough, the '95 LT1 also seemed quieter and to have LESS of an exaust note than my single piped '93. Roared a bit when I floored it and it kicked down, but otherwise seemed almost a little too quiet. Not bad, just quiet--but that can be a good thing.

The LT1's are a true dual exhaust system with two reverse flow mufflers and two straight flow resonators. They are indeed very quiet cars. The engine and exhaust note in my '92 deVille is much easier to hear than my LT1 Roadmaster's was. The LT1 didnt have a distinctive sound to it IIRC like my 4.9 does.

I must say, I like the Brougham style stock wheels more than I like mine... Ah well

http://www.greene-shipman.org/LastFleetwood.jpg

vs

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/320000-320999/320142_81_full.jpgull.jpg

I must say, I like the Brougham style stock wheels more than I like mine... Ah well

Hell, you want to buy a set? I just have mine sitting in my warehouse taking up space.

Shadowlvr400, do you have a Fleetwood or Fleetwood Brougham?

Shadowlvr400, do you have a Fleetwood or Fleetwood Brougham?

His is a "base", hence the mesh wheels.

Phil,
When are you gonna update your Cardomain page? The Eldo's been gone HOW long? It's time to move on and put some more Fleetwood pics on there.

His is a "base", hence the mesh wheels.

Ah yes I saw those wheels, I just thought that it may be a FWB with the standard wheels.

I must say, I like the Brougham style stock wheels more than I like mine... Ah well

Me too. Actually, I like the semi-rare factory chromed versions of the Brougham wheels the most, but the standard machined ones are great too--style matches the car VERY well.

The base "meshies" are nice on the car too, but I think the Brougham ones look a little better.

On another note, still trying to figure out a couple things with potential '95 purchase right now, in addition to a ton of X-mas activities. I'll repost when and if there's any change...:cool:

Still diddling around a bit...

After the '93 just about died on me yesterday, I pretty much decided that I have to buy SOMETHING and hopefully soon. Still love the '95 Caddy, but after doing some more internet looking, there's a few other Roadmasters and, I think, even an Impala SS in the price range that have interested me enough at least to call.

I have to check back in with the dealer who has the Caddy tomorrow, to see if it's still there, along with calling about a few other cars "just for kicks", I guess.

Just to ask it again, besides the broken manifold bolts, anything else pretty common for '95s? Still reading a lot of transmission horror stories for the newer LT1 cars, but has anyone here had any such problems? The '95 Caddy, at least when I drove it, seemed to shift perfectly--crisp and responsive--but you never know. Probably will drive it again, and even take dad along, but not sure yet.

Clean Broughams are hard to find. I have almost $9.5K invested in mine already and I still have to do the suspension and exhaust before I am "done" with the current mod list. Just remember that you pay for what you get and $5K sounds like a steal if it is clean.

As for the LT-1 power, the engine is very restricted on these cars. With a few bolt-ons, gears, and reprogramming, you can have a high 13 second daily driver.

Goodluck!

I haven't seen any issues on trans myself.
Look for broken backup lights (tap on them gently to see if it falls out..) from rear ending.

Rear windows are a common problem in the B bodies. I haven't heard too much on D bodies. But make sure they work. Look for my post back in Feb about looking for a Fleewood. Got a lot of tips there. Front clips on the back window tracks often break and window falls, sometimes resulting in breakage. I will be replacing mine this summer just as PM.

Look for underhood light out, often caused by blown fuse from the AIR pump, which the light is on same ckt. Mine was out, but was due to the lens missing and dirt getting on mercury switch contacts. Tapping on the switch itself fixed it. But on AIR pump, it is EPA legal to remove and plug off. GM recertified the LT1 in the B/D body to not need AIR pump. However, it DOES make a nice vacuum pump for the crankcase..... :lildevil: Dynos have shown vacuuming down crankcase with a pump showing upwards 15 hp, due to improved ring sealing.

Look for leaking waterpumps. Ensure vent system on Optispark is ok. You can check operation with a hand vacuum pump (one of my most used tools) and a vacuum gauge. Connect pump (with gauge on it) to line from intake (drivers side, has check valve in it) after the check valve. Pump up. Should pump up to 10 or so inches and bleed off moderately fast. If it pumps up and stays pumped, bad. If it doens't pump up, bad. Reconnect lines. Pull line out of the intake air tract. connect gauge. start engine, should pump down to 15 more vacuum. Shut off engine. Should hold vacuum. If it doesn't check on check valve and look for leaks.

As always, start car cold (overnight sit) and have someone looking at tail pipes for blue smoke.

Look for underhood light out, often caused by blown fuse from the AIR pump, which the light is on same ckt. But on AIR pump, it is EPA legal to remove and plug off.

Well, technically you can only disable the AIR pump, not remove it. Hundreds or even thousands of people have removed the AIR pump anyway and not had a hassle from the emissions/inspection station whatsoever.
http://www.impalassforum.com/tech/engine/air_pump/air_pump.htm
That link is the GM TSB for AIR pump disable.

Pretty much anything on the Caprice/Impala/Roadmaster for trouble issues applies to the fleetwood since they are almost the same vehicle. I'd pull the dipstick and make sure the tranny fluid is a nice light shade of pink, and not worn out muddy brown sludge.....

And I'll throw in my opinion here also...
I have a low mileage Caprice that's fully loaded with all the bells and whistles (leather, power, posi, LT1, sport suspension, etc) and I love driving it. But my Fleetwood, even when it was stock, has something the B-body doesn't have. I can't place my finger on it, but I'd rather drive the Caddy! Even if it handles like a slug (that will be fixed shortly :sneaky: ).

Good luck in whatever you purchase. I'm a B/D body nut and I'd gladly own and drive any version of one every day for the rest of my life!

FW's have 4 channel ABS and TC, which B bodies don't get.

I broke the rear differential on my Roadmaster. It would clunk when shifting from 1st to 2nd under somewhat heavy throttle. I can guess that all the aggressive driving I did caused that. That really taught me a lesson :(

What broke in it? Does it clunk rythmically? Or did it lock up? Or only noises in turns?

I haven't seen any issues on trans myself.
Look for broken backup lights (tap on them gently to see if it falls out..) from rear ending.

Rear windows are a common problem in the B bodies. I haven't heard too much on D bodies. But make sure they work. Look for my post back in Feb about looking for a Fleewood. Got a lot of tips there. Front clips on the back window tracks often break and window falls, sometimes resulting in breakage. I will be replacing mine this summer just as PM.

Look for underhood light out, often caused by blown fuse from the AIR pump, which the light is on same ckt. Mine was out, but was due to the lens missing and dirt getting on mercury switch contacts. Tapping on the switch itself fixed it. But on AIR pump, it is EPA legal to remove and plug off. GM recertified the LT1 in the B/D body to not need AIR pump. However, it DOES make a nice vacuum pump for the crankcase..... :lildevil: Dynos have shown vacuuming down crankcase with a pump showing upwards 15 hp, due to improved ring sealing.

Look for leaking waterpumps. Ensure vent system on Optispark is ok. You can check operation with a hand vacuum pump (one of my most used tools) and a vacuum gauge. Connect pump (with gauge on it) to line from intake (drivers side, has check valve in it) after the check valve. Pump up. Should pump up to 10 or so inches and bleed off moderately fast. If it pumps up and stays pumped, bad. If it doens't pump up, bad. Reconnect lines. Pull line out of the intake air tract. connect gauge. start engine, should pump down to 15 more vacuum. Shut off engine. Should hold vacuum. If it doesn't check on check valve and look for leaks.

As always, start car cold (overnight sit) and have someone looking at tail pipes for blue smoke.

VERY good stuff to know. The back windows on our '93 can be finicky at times, and I never tested them out on the '95 during my first test drive, so more to watch out for.

I'm still thinking the transmission issues I was reading was a lot of beat to the death SS's, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

What broke in it? Does it clunk rythmically? Or did it lock up? Or only noises in turns?

It would clunk only when shifting from 1st to 2nd under heavy throttle, and when I would make a long turn. There may have been more places too, but I cant remember. It was over a year ago I sold that car. It was a Limited Slip Differential if that matters at all.

Well, technically you can only disable the AIR pump, not remove it. Hundreds or even thousands of people have removed the AIR pump anyway and not had a hassle from the emissions/inspection station whatsoever.
http://www.impalassforum.com/tech/engine/air_pump/air_pump.htm
That link is the GM TSB for AIR pump disable.
Pretty much anything on the Caprice/Impala/Roadmaster for trouble issues applies to the fleetwood since they are almost the same vehicle. I'd pull the dipstick and make sure the tranny fluid is a nice light shade of pink, and not worn out muddy brown sludge.....
And I'll throw in my opinion here also...
I have a low mileage Caprice that's fully loaded with all the bells and whistles (leather, power, posi, LT1, sport suspension, etc) and I love driving it. But my Fleetwood, even when it was stock, has something the B-body doesn't have. I can't place my finger on it, but I'd rather drive the Caddy! Even if it handles like a slug (that will be fixed shortly :sneaky: ).
Good luck in whatever you purchase. I'm a B/D body nut and I'd gladly own and drive any version of one every day for the rest of my life!

Just went back and re-read your post...and gotta say I AGREE. My father's '92 Roadmaster LTD is nice, granted, and even seems to have a more solid, tough feel overall than the Fleetwood, even with double the miles on it, BUT it is in a completely different league of car. My tops with the 'Wood:

1. Styling, inside and out, is the classiest and most eye catching, IMHO, of the bunch
2. Interior is head, shoulders, and even mountains above the plebian Buicks and Chevy's...dash and door materials are nicer, seats have dramatically nicer leather, carpet is thicker, styling is better...just a NICER car.
3. Smoother, more polished overall feel, especially when it comes to the powertrain--even though it's exactly the same as the other cars, mechanically.

I'm still "tempted" by lots of different Roadmasters and even the one out odd Caprice I find, but just when I think I could drive one myself, I see a Caddy and that thought is gone. My father, on the other hand, pretty much dislikes the Caddy...I know, I know..., and much prefers his Roadie to it. Regardless, bugs and all (like it right now being "out of order" in the driveway), I'd rather have a dead Fleetwood than a perfect Caprice or Roadmaster most days of the week...


OH, and good point on the transmission fluid--had just added that to my mental checklist, especially after the '93 FWB we looked at a couple years ago that was beat up and had burnt smelling trans fluid...BAD sign.

Called to make sure no one else had scoffed it up in the past week, and the friendly salesman guy said "Yes, it's still here.":bouncy:

At this point, even though I don't have a clue where to park it, I know that I just need to buy it ASAP and think about things like that later. Going to call the insurance company tomorrow to ask a few questions and hopefully try and get something figured out as far as a deposit, or what have you. Would LOVE to have it before the year ends, especially since I'm having arm surgery on Monday, but we'll see.

Right now, their pricing is as this:
-$6995 on their site, which is apparently the price they're asking if you need to finance it through them
-$4995 on their other internet page, which is the "Cash ONLY, no financing" price

Though I'm always for getting something as low as possible, I don't think it'd be possible to get them anything below the $4995, especially considering the shape and model year of the car. Any thoughts? Just offer the full $5k and be done with it?

yeah that would make an excellent new years resolution:
to make a supercharged 350LT1 powered FWB!

yeah that would make an excellent new years resolution:
to make a supercharged 350LT1 powered FWB!

Haha, yeah right...a supercharged one:thumbsup:

Stopped by again today so my brother could see the car. They had the gates closed, but you could still get in....and strangely, they don't ever lock ANYTHING. Pulled on the door handle and pop, it opened. Same thing with the Grand Marquis next to it, except it also had the keys IN the ignition...guess they just depend on some kind of honor system...:cookoo:

Regardless, snapped a few more pics and noticed some more stuff that I missed in the excitement last time:
*Kick panel under steering wheel is hanging on lower side, and looks like someone tried to tape it back up once, but it didn't work.
*In addition to the usual little slice in the side of the driver's seat, also has a half worn through mark on the backrest. Also, the leather in the front is kinda dirty, but still in nice shape overall.
*Carpet looks GREAT.
*Not sure why, other than typical "variable" GM fit & finish, but the passenger's side edge of the hood sticks up just a bit above the fender and the one side corner of the back bumper is a little out of line with the rest of the trim--the car definately has never been in an accident or had any body work, so just must be a few odd GM quirks.
*Was pretty certain the Michelin X-one tires on it were whitewalls that just happened to be blackwall-out, but I looked underneath and they seemed to just be plain blackwall on both sides.
*Underside is VERY clean, with only the tiniest bit of surface rust in a couple places--guess it pays to be a beach life car.

After looking at it again, I still think it's a great car and a lot of the outside bits and pieces are a lot nicer than my '93 (no faded gray trim or loose chrome panels), but that I probably wouldn't offer them the full cash asking price of $4995--more like $4500 maybe, considering the over 100k miles and that it would take some time to clean the seats and get a few other minor things back to perfect shape.

Here's the pics from today:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0022.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0023.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0024.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0025.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0026.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0028.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0029.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/Marblehead%2095%20FWB/DSCF0027.jpg

My father seems to be okay with it, I think, but already made the comment "Those blackwalls would have to go immediately--it's just too ugly to drive with them". That said, for the price and overall shape of the car, I could care less about having to drive around for a few months on a set of blackwall Michelins with a ton of tread left until I had the money to change them out.

I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that someone made a bolt on supercharger for the 94-96 Impala SS's that would give you half the horsepower you already have, which means that on a completely stock LT1, it would be around 390hp.

There's plenty of superchargers for the LT1. I think the Pro-Charger is possibly the easiest one to install. Basically just a bolt-on.

yeah thats what it was, procharger.

I remember back when I got my Roadmaster, I figured if I spent about $5000, I could have about 625hp with the LT4 Conversion and Supercharger. I didnt even think about if they would work together. It was just me daydreaming about having the fastest B-Body in MN. :)

wow, she looks nice. why cant i find any around where i live? it is crazy look at that one picture and not seeing any mountains or hills. guess ive been here to long. anyway, good luck man 5k isnt a bad asking price, i would definitely go for it. the only one close enough to me is asking 8,9k for it so that isnt going to happen. good luck oh and dont forget the LT4 conversion!

wow, she looks nice. why cant i find any around where i live? it is crazy look at that one picture and not seeing any mountains or hills. guess ive been here to long. anyway, good luck man 5k isnt a bad asking price, i would definitely go for it. the only one close enough to me is asking 8,9k for it so that isnt going to happen. good luck oh and dont forget the LT4 conversion!

Yep, that's Delaware for you...not a hill, or even a lump to be seen ANYWHERE;)

The $5k seems very good to me too, but it never hurts to try. I NEVER find these cars anywhere even remotely close to here either, except maybe 1 every 6 months about an hour away. This is, by far, one of the nicest that's ever been around here, and only a quick 25 minute spin up the road. The fact that it's so close alone, according to my brother, should be reason enough to hurry up and start writing the check:yup:

I was going to call the insurance company(ies) today, but had surgery on my arm and have felt pretty miserable all day, so most likely tomorrow after my dentist appt. The lowest quote I got, strangely enough, was from State Farm--anyone have anything to say, good or bad, about them?

Just for shits and giggles, I may go out and test drive a '95 FWB with the cloth seats tomorrow. Its got like 92k miles on it and its going for like $4995. Its dark blue with the dark blue leather. I am in no way in the market for a new car, I just wanna see how it compares to the Town Cars. (and my deVille/Roadmaster)

Just for shits and giggles, I may go out and test drive a '95 FWB with the cloth seats tomorrow. Its got like 92k miles on it and its going for like $4995. Its dark blue with the dark blue leather. I am in no way in the market for a new car, I just wanna see how it compares to the Town Cars. (and my deVille/Roadmaster)

Go for it!

In the past almost 3 years that we've had the Roadmaster and Fleetwood, I've still always "kept and eye out" and at least went and looked when a similar car of interest came available, just for the hell of it.

As for the '95 being discussed here, I'm still working on it, but have had to deal with some pretty horrible post-op issues after my arm surgery on Monday...still just barely mustering up the energy to get on the net for a few minutes:(

But, still working on it, and fairly sure the car is still there, so going to try and at least get a call in to the insurance co. tomorrow.

I looked at it and wasnt that impressed. Between that and a Town Car, I'd pick the Town Car hands down even though the FWB is much quicker and powerful, The T/C has better seats, better dashboard, better sightlines, less blindspots, more gadgets. It seems to me that Ford threw a lot more money into the Town Cars and that GM just kinda said "ok well we are going to modernize the Broughams, but we're not gonna spend a lot of money" The materials in the T/C are a higher quality, the faux wood trim pieces on the doors of the FWB were coming off, just like on my Roadmaster. And the cloth material on the seats seemed real thin, and the piece on the front armrest was tearing.

I looked at it and wasnt that impressed. Between that and a Town Car, I'd pick the Town Car hands down even though the FWB is much quicker and powerful, The T/C has better seats, better dashboard, better sightlines, less blindspots, more gadgets. It seems to me that Ford threw a lot more money into the Town Cars and that GM just kinda said "ok well we are going to modernize the Broughams, but we're not gonna spend a lot of money" The materials in the T/C are a higher quality, the faux wood trim pieces on the doors of the FWB were coming off, just like on my Roadmaster. And the cloth material on the seats seemed real thin, and the piece on the front armrest was tearing.

Yep, that sounds pretty accurate to me. Compared to a TC, the overall build quality and general fit & finish on a FWB (or Roadie, Caprice, etc.) can come off as atrocious. Actually, right up there on "my list" is a TC, but I'm still sticking a bit more towards the Fleetwood solely because they're so much more rare, plus have the LT1-power availability. Laughable build quality for the most part, but oh well...

If anyone around here had an attractive TC for sale and in my range, I'd probably drive one of those too, but there just doesn't seem to be that many, for whatever reason. Going to college in a suburb of Philly, whenever I get into the city, I've ridden in plenty of ex-police car CV city cabs and was actually impressed by everything about them except for the shocking lack of interior space--one of the oddest things about those cars. But they are smoother, more solid, and certainly just as proven (if not more) when it comes to high mileage beat-ups.

And for some odd reason on a 12 year old car, the headliner was sagging in the rear about an inch.

Why is the build quality so much poorer than other Caddys?

And for some odd reason on a 12 year old car, the headliner was sagging in the rear about an inch.

Why is the build quality so much poorer than other Caddys?

That's the million dollar question I, my brother, and my father have had for years now...

While most other Caddy's were more up to date and built on more advanced platforms with higher tech equipment, the Fleetwood's remained on mostly old mechanical parts from the late 70's. That, in truth, isn't such a bad thing when it comes to the reliability, but what is bad is that it doesn't seem like GM ever did much to advance the build quality level over those years.

Most notably on these cars, the outside trim is of very low quality and doesn't seem to last very long, and the rest of the car (inside and out) just isn't all that well screwed together. Nice cars, no doubt, and I still love my '93, but it's definately no "Mercedes bank vault" when it comes to build quality. That said, our '92 Roadmaster seems a good deal more solid, but the interior is too full of rock hard, rattly plastics for my tastes.

Actually, even stranger to me, after looking at and driving several of these cars over the past few years is how so few actually seem to have been maintained properly. A good deal of them you find are literally ripped to shreds and seem to have been beat from day one, which never really made sense to me considering #1) they were Caddy's flagship at the time, and #2) they weren't exactly typically bought by people who could care less about their car. Some are very nice, still, like my '93 and the '95 I'm right now looking at, but the somewhat iffy quality matched with a lot of, apparently, less than caring owners hasn't left a lot of immaculate examples to be found still today.

Like I said, the Ford Panther cars (like the TC) do seem to always have been built better and were actually just a bit more modern overall, but they're also just a bit too "dime a dozen" and the main reason why I still am sticking to wanting a Caddy as #1 choice. Well, that, and it's just nice to have such a big, cool car that so few people even knew ever existed...even if it doesn't have the latest and greatest cool gizmos or even the highest standard of fit & finish.

Its very odd that the Broughams nowadays sell for more money than their contemporary Eldorado ETC's and STS's, and even the Town Cars. The Broughams are dated in comparison to their biggest competition, the Town Cars, and are EXTREMELY dated when compared to the ETC's, Concours and STS's. But yet the public will pay a higher price for these levithans. It must be because they are the last "true Cadillacs" and they are pretty rare too.


BTW, how does the Fleetwood drive compared to your Roadmaster? Is there a big difference (no pun intended!)

I have to say that the 90-92 Broughams are like 5x the car that the 93-96 models are. They are much better built, much more comfortable, more "cadillac traditional" better looking (IMO) and with the 350, they're decently powerful, if I wanted a Brougham, THATS what I would get!

I have to say that the 90-92 Broughams are like 5x the car that the 93-96 models are. They are much better built, much more comfortable, more "cadillac traditional" better looking (IMO) and with the 350, they're decently powerful, if I wanted a Brougham, THATS what I would get!

That's interesting. I myself can't stand the overly ornate and sometimes even gawdy excess of chrome trim inside and outside the Broughams, not to mention the fact that they just come across as a little *too* antique to me.

But, like you said, it's weird that you think the older ones are better built. Never had that impression, though I've never driven an older model either.

UPDATE:

Even though this thread has gone a bit off track towards the end, just thought you'd all like to know I sent them an email last night offering $4500 and got a call this morning saying "I talked it over with my boss, and he agreed" from the sales guy. He gave me all the tax/tag figures then and also answered my question about inspection.

NOW the only problem is getting insurance...which would be no biggie, but this will be the first time I've put a car completely in my name and had my own, separate insurance. Geico is winning out, right now, with the lowest quote and internet availablility...wish me well...:cool:

The one thing you must remember when comparing the last gen Fleetwood to anything else is that shortly after the introduction of the '93, GM was already making plans for it's exit from the line-up. For this reason, the car was doomed right from the start, literally. The car was bought predominently by fleets and old farts so Cadillac wasn't terribly worried about keeping anyone happy IMO since they were getting ready to abandon both markets. The last gen Fleetwood was a great example of a car that "could have" been a great car but was left to die on the vine by GM. Believe me, as one of their largest fleet customers, I fought tooth and nail with Cadillac for improvements but was always disappointed with what showed up each year.

OHHHHH SO THAT EXPLAINS IT!!!! :)


I was curious as to why the D bodies seemed to be forgotten when the other Caddys had so much technology and stuff in them. The Roadmaster I had, and the FWB I looked at had really quite poor build quality, and they used cheaper materials. So that explains that too :)

The car was bought predominently by fleets and old farts so Cadillac wasn't terribly worried about keeping anyone happy IMO since they were getting ready to abandon both markets.

Haha, so true, and now so odd with so many "youngsters" like me craving the Cadillac style and comfort with Chevy maintenance costs and a Vette engine under the hood...:thumbsup:

Can't wait to have my new '95 in the driveway, well, as long as I can get my insurance figured out...

Hey just think if back in 1996 Caddy made the FWB available with 22" rims and DVD players and stuff like that, then it would have jumped from "granny's cruiser" to "music star's dream"! :histeric:

LOL!

Hey just think if back in 1996 Caddy made the FWB available with 22" rims and DVD players and stuff like that, then it would have jumped from "granny's cruiser" to "music star's dream"! :histeric:
LOL!

Yeah, now that would have definately been interesting...

It is very weird how the people who bought these cars new are COMPLETELY different from the people now lusting over them and buying them used.

Actually, a little bit ago, I started thinking back to '96/97 when we were minivan shopping and I still rarely had even seen or heard of the Roadmaster/Fleetwood at the end of their production. Now, years later after we bought one of each used, I wish one of us had the "vision" back then and bought one new.:rolleyes:

It's been insisted that I still "take dad" over to check it out (not that he'll check out anymore than I already have...), so am going to try and do that tomorrow afternoon, then come home and get the insurance confirmed, and *hopefully* actually get the car by late Friday or Saturday.

All depends on how long it takes me to get the actual insurance policy and when someone wants to ride along with me over to the dealer.

The bummer? Excited about the car as hell, but have to go back to Philly and college on Monday, so it'll be almost 2 months until I'm back and able to drive it again:(

Then again, paying $4500 for a '95 Marblehead/Neutral beauty is just too darn good to pass up, regardless of whether it has to sit a bit while I'm still in school.

Should have it later today/this evening:D :D

Just have to get the insurance finalized, which should be pretty quick, and ride on over there. Dad wants to check it out himself before I sign anything, but I don't expect anything to jump out at him...somehow he had heard enough about the LT1 from someone at work to say "You know, check around and make sure the water pump isn't leaking and whatever else." The dealer also does 90 day/4500 mile warranties on all the cars they sell, so that's at least a bit of a safety net.

Can't wait;)

Caddy cruiser you will be proud!

How is the build quality on that car?
My Roadmaster and the 94 FWB I looked at had pretty poor build quality. The faux wood trim on the doors was peeling off, and the leather in the Buick was really rough and firm (lack of care probably) and in the Caddy, the cloth on the front armrest was wearing thin, and the headliner was sagging! This is on a 12 year old car with 94k miles!

But judging from your pics, yours is in better shape!

Good luck and have fun! :)

Caddy cruiser you will be proud!
How is the build quality on that car?
My Roadmaster and the 94 FWB I looked at had pretty poor build quality. The faux wood trim on the doors was peeling off, and the leather in the Buick was really rough and firm (lack of care probably) and in the Caddy, the cloth on the front armrest was wearing thin, and the headliner was sagging! This is on a 12 year old car with 94k miles!
But judging from your pics, yours is in better shape!
Good luck and have fun! :)

Actually, even with 117k on it, my new one feels like a TANK rolling down the road, and is also noticeabley better screwed together (or at least feels that way) than our '95 FWB. I'm totally impressed, and am definately sure I'd never find something like a Town Car that gave me the same feeling.

Check out my new thread on the car:D :
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=563712&posted=1#post563712