: Camaro Spy Shots Leaked!!!



ben72227
12-21-05, 01:22 AM
http://www.wheelsjamaica.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=34645.new

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

OH MY GOD!

If that thing is FOR REAL, then GM will definately be back on top. I told you all - GM wasn't going to have a retro design - they were going to be futuristic, and DAMNIT that is a futuristic design. Looks like they got the designers from the Cadillac Cien to do it...It looks so...futuristic...

DopeStar 156
12-21-05, 01:30 AM
Looks good, but I'm not a fan of the Corvetteish rear end on it. I wish that car all the success in the world and maybe after college, a place in my driveway.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-21-05, 01:41 AM
wow that looks awesome! Not as awesome as the '08 Challenger, but still awesome!
Great Job GM! :thumbsup:

illumina
12-21-05, 01:59 AM
Maybe I missed GM's last few announcements or something, but I though that they were not bringing back the Camaro?

ben72227
12-21-05, 02:00 AM
Well maybe its a Firebird then:thumbsup: Who cares - it looks awesome!

CaddyCrisis
12-21-05, 02:28 AM
Holy Shit! That Is Nice!

Kev
12-21-05, 02:57 AM
I definitely see lines reminiscent of the 69 Camaro in the rear side windows and the cowl induction hood. The gages are remind me of the early Camaros. The way the pics are chopped up I wonder how close the actual (if there will be one) will look to that concept.

SilverFleetwood85
12-21-05, 03:31 AM
The new camaro looks alot better then the old one. It has lines from the past camaros and some modern elements too. It is a really cool looking car.

Spyder
12-21-05, 03:42 AM
I don't like that at all...hopefully, if it IS built, the real one is toned down a lot from the concept...IMO, anyways...

Caddy Man
12-21-05, 05:58 AM
I wouldnt call that a 'spy shot'. spy shot usually refers to a car already built and being tested. Those pics look completly computer rendered, it dosnt look like a real fucntioning car, just a concept. I mean, hell, you could kill someone with those sideview mirrors!!

70eldo
12-21-05, 06:29 AM
Nice concept!

But what is it with American brands keep relying on the old models??? Why just not come up with a new model with a new name? So you keep out the expectations (and disappointments) people would have based on the prior model(s).

I think it looks a lot better than all the Camaro models we've seen after the 70's. But apart from the retro Camaro lines, I think it just looks like a very aggressive design. I like it! And here you go; another use for the new Corvette engine! That single technician mentioned before can sure wave his holidays and sick days!

Blackout
12-21-05, 07:24 AM
Its a photoshop and a bad one at that. Look at the picture of the front of the car and then look at the fog lights. But this is one of a million "concepts" circling around the internet. At this point I'll wait for GM to show us some pics.

SwftCdy
12-21-05, 08:26 AM
For heaven's sake. These were pulled off of every major site due. Scott made a personal request that they be removed.

Could someone please remove these pictures?

(No, I haven't been able to find the request to remove thread on the other F-Body forums)

Randy_W
12-21-05, 08:32 AM
The real thing will be at the Detroit Auto Show in January, I'll pass judgement then.:thumbsup:

Katshot
12-21-05, 08:40 AM
There ARE some interesting design cues yet overall I still don't like it. It DOES appear to be a relatively poor Photoshop job too. We'll see. I've heard that there "may" be something at least hinted at (if not actually shown) at the NAIAS in Detroit.

Randy_W
12-21-05, 08:51 AM
It's not hinted at, GM announced two weeks ago that the new Camaro concept would be there.
No offense Kat, but it ain't a Ford, so I didn't expect you to like it.:D

Elvis
12-21-05, 10:20 AM
I want the Pontiac version.

Katshot
12-21-05, 11:01 AM
It's not hinted at, GM announced two weeks ago that the new Camaro concept would be there.
No offense Kat, but it ain't a Ford, so I didn't expect you to like it.:D

You really think I hate GM don't you? That's just not true Randy. Hell, I've owned FAR more GM product than anything else so I would think that my wallet would dictate who I like the most. As for whether I like a design or not, I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Randy_W
12-21-05, 11:05 AM
I'm just picking on you Kat. :thumbsup:

Katshot
12-21-05, 11:21 AM
Now THIS is what I would like to see.

HotRodSaint
12-21-05, 11:26 AM
Looks like a real clay model to me. Notice the stands underneith supporting the car? Most people wouldn't photochop those in.

The design studios frequently make a clay model of two halves so that competing designs can be explored side by side. And if you look closely at the surfaces on the front and the back, there are clearly two different design directions being explored here.

It looks to me like we are only seeing the uglier half.

And Randy is right, we will see the Camaro concept at Detroit.

tru504187211
12-21-05, 11:37 AM
I can't picture the undercover in those...the mirrors look like they could kill somebody!

SwftCdy
12-21-05, 01:19 PM
I want the Pontiac version.

The pontiac version is the GTO. GM isn't bringing back the TA.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-21-05, 01:29 PM
GM isn't bringing back the TA.
How come?

ben72227
12-21-05, 01:53 PM
Well, GM had better do something about the GTO. From what I hear, it's not the hottest seller, even with the rushed-addition of hood scoops:stirpot:

turbojimmy
12-21-05, 02:02 PM
Well, GM had better do something about the GTO. From what I hear, it's not the hottest seller, even with the rushed-addition of hood scoops:stirpot:

The GTO scoops look silly and like an afterthought. One of the car mags had a good quote about them. Something about painting angry eyebrows on your aunt Mabel. She looks a little meaner but she's still aunt Mabel.

That Camaro 'concept' has plenty of cues from the '69 Camaro, so it's not surprising to me that they'd target a release exactly 40 years later.

Jim

malcolm
12-21-05, 02:06 PM
Cool but the freakin bow tie has to go.

Katshot
12-21-05, 04:24 PM
Well, GM had better do something about the GTO. From what I hear, it's not the hottest seller, even with the rushed-addition of hood scoops:stirpot:

Something about putting non-functional hood scoops that screams RICER to me. Sorry GM but that was lame.

Randy_W
12-21-05, 05:34 PM
Ah, last time I looked, Ford was putting non functional scoops on Mustangs, I know, some are funtional but some aren't. Dodge is putting fake scoops on trucks left and right, why is it worse on the GTO? After all the first GTO's built had twin fake scoops! I think it's just another reason for some people to bash GM. By the way, the '05's sold very well bearing in mind it was a limited production car, the '04's were another story.

DopeStar 156
12-21-05, 05:44 PM
I think that orange concept Katshot posted looks a little more realistic. If they make the Camaro look good enough, when I graduate college I'll buy one. I've wanted a Camaro since I was 12 and looks like this may be the one that sways me to finally buy one.

Katshot
12-21-05, 06:10 PM
Ah, last time I looked, Ford was putting non functional scoops on Mustangs, I know, some are funtional but some aren't. Dodge is putting fake scoops on trucks left and right, why is it worse on the GTO? After all the first GTO's built had twin fake scoops! I think it's just another reason for some people to bash GM. By the way, the '05's sold very well bearing in mind it was a limited production car, the '04's were another story.
Damn would you get off me. I'm not just bashing GM for Christ's sake. I don't like non-functional scoops on ANY CAR, okay? The main reason I would especially gripe in this case is that the hood scoops were a very much anticipated modification to the car, as was the dual exhaust modification. In this case, it would be like installing the dual tailpipes but only having one actually functional. Again, I probably wouldn't make a big deal of the scoops if they weren't such a high-profile addition to the car.

Katshot
12-21-05, 06:11 PM
I think that orange concept Katshot posted looks a little more realistic. If they make the Camaro look good enough, when I graduate college I'll buy one. I've wanted a Camaro since I was 12 and looks like this may be the one that sways me to finally buy one.

Yeah, that one looks pretty hot to me too.

ben72227
12-21-05, 06:29 PM
What's wrong with Randy this week??? He's being extra mean to anyone who isn't a GM fanboi:thepan:

Besides, Hood Scoops or not, the GTO still looks like the redesigned Sunfire:histeric: and nobody wants to buy a $30,000 that looks like a $13,000 car:helpless:

Kev
12-21-05, 06:35 PM
What's wrong with Randy this week??? He's being extra mean to anyone who isn't a GM fanboi:thepan:There are quite a few folk who are tired of the constant anti-GM rhetoric they've been bombarded with lately.
You would do well to lighten the tone a bit Ben.
Please treat others with respect, that goes for everybody.

Thanks,
Kev

DBA-One
12-21-05, 06:37 PM
Fresh design my ass. That looks like a customized '69. I've seen these pict before. I'd love to see Chevy bring the Camaro back. However, if I wanted a '69 I'd buy that. They did a good job on the 93+ cars and even better with the LS1 in '98. I'd like to see a fresh car, not clinging to the past. I know GM can do it, they just need to put their backs in to it. I'm rooting for them

DBA-One
12-21-05, 06:41 PM
Oh and GM has a legal problem with bringing back the car. According to the deal in Canada where F-Body cars were built, they can't build a new car and call it a Camaro unless they build it there or pay out the butt. Something nuts like that.

Kev
12-21-05, 06:47 PM
I personally like the retro look. I like the retro Mustang but not the T-Bird. The retro truck is OK too. I think there are a lot of people my age and a little older who feel similar. It brings back great memories for some and is a great sales gimmick in my opinion.

The 69 Camaro and Mustangs were great looking cars but they lack the refinement in technology that we have become used to now. Of the group mentioned above, who wouldn't like to be able to drive a 69 Camaro with smooth, four wheel independent suspension, four wheel disk brakes with ABS, computer controlled multi-port fuel injection, enjoy whiplash performance while still getting moderate fuel economy?

I see it as a win-win proposition. :highfive:

Randy_W
12-21-05, 06:48 PM
Damn would you get off me. I'm not just bashing GM for Christ's sake. I don't like non-functional scoops on ANY CAR, okay? The main reason I would especially gripe in this case is that the hood scoops were a very much anticipated modification to the car, as was the dual exhaust modification. In this case, it would be like installing the dual tailpipes but only having one actually functional. Again, I probably wouldn't make a big deal of the scoops if they weren't such a high-profile addition to the car.

To quote Alvin the chipmunk, O.K!!:histeric:

DBA-One
12-21-05, 07:00 PM
Well, I can see how retro would appeal. Imagine being able to buy that car you wanted in your youth but could not afford it. Getting it with all the latest features, etc. You could build a '69 with C4/5 components and come out with the same thing but at what cost?

However, Why buy the same car over again? I've got a '92 Seville and if Cadillac started advertising the reintro of the '92 Seville I would not be one of the folks you'd spot in the show room.

This is not a GM bash post either.

I'd suggest something like what Nissan has done with the Z. It has evolved. You can put a 05 350Z Next to a mid '70's 240,260 and put a '90 300 in between. They all look very different but you know what you are looking at.

I'll say it again, they (GM) can do this and they can do it right. They just need to take some time. The concept in this thread is just throwing things at a problem, it has no depth. The car can't look like a customized '60's car and attract a large population. Hell, half the last generation F-Body owners probably didn't know a Camaro exisited in the sixties or even that there were the sixties!

Kev
12-21-05, 07:34 PM
Well, for one, it's obviously not the same car. It is reminiscent of the old Camaro in a few lines and features but will likely perform much better in all areas except maybe the gut wrenching torque of the early high performance models.

Retro styling is a temporary fad which I wouldn't expect to last more than a few production years nor should it. Hopefully, if it is successful, it will give GM an added time frame with which to improve the lines and bolster their financial position.

As far as retro not bringing people in to the show rooms, I can see that it is not for everyone. As I said, I don't care for the new T-Bird but I'm sure there are many who like it. I see a few driving around my little town. But look at the current popularity of the new Mustang, it seems to be doing pretty well and that seems mainly due to it's styling cues from it's early predecessors.

SilverFleetwood85
12-21-05, 08:35 PM
What is so wrong with the GTO? The interior of the car is really well put together with good materials and its RWD. I understand peoples dislike for the exterior, the front and rear are a little bit too round but that can be easily fixed with a freshening. The Camero will be really good for GM because it will (hopefully) take sales away from the Ford Mustang.

DBA-One
12-21-05, 08:43 PM
I agree Kevin, there is nothing wrong with styling cues from the past. The Mustang on the other hand is rehashed stuff. I'm a former Mustang guy so I know a thing or two about them. I'll mention the Z again. It has progressed, not fallen back because they couldn't come up with something. By the way. The T-Bird was a flop and has been killed.

DBA-One
12-21-05, 08:48 PM
What is so wrong with the GTO? The interior of the car is really well put together with good materials and its RWD. I understand peoples dislike for the exterior, the front and rear are a little bit too round but that can be easily fixed with a freshening. The Camero will be really good for GM because it will (hopefully) take sales away from the Ford Mustang.

There is nothing wrong with the GTO. If it had "in your face styling" people would complain about that, too. People have to understand that cars designed for the Australian market are much more restrained than other regions. Iíve talked to a few people from down under who have confirmed that a car like the Holden Menaro(sp) would and does sell there while something like the 93-02 F-Body would struggle.

Basically, Gm worked with what it had to minimize the cost to reintroduce the GTO. Even though it has first rate build quality, a very powerful motor people have to, just have to tear the car down because it doesnít have enough flash in their eyes.

To me this is all BS. The only thing wrong with a GTO is the price. It doesnít compete with a Mustang because sticker to sticker there is a gap of thousands. I wish the new GTO a long life. Itís a good car.

Kev
12-21-05, 08:56 PM
I think there is a fine line between the terms "rehashed" and "retro" in our conversation here and I think that line is personal opinion and that's OK. There seems to be enough people on the retro side to make the Mustang rather popular right now and that's good too.

If GM can bring back the Camaro with as good a response or better than the Mustang they will have themselves a home run. No matter how it comes out, there will be those who love it and those who hate it and the rest will fall somewhere in between. :)

DBA-One
12-21-05, 09:11 PM
It's too soon to tell how the Mustang's styling will fare over the next few model. I used to be a Mustang nut. Many in that community don't care for the new car. I'm one of them.

I'd love to see Chevy have a smash hit with the new Camaro. All those 4.6, 5.0 people who love to bad mouth the LS1 need a proper ass kicking. I simply don't think it is needed to rebuild old cars today. Styling cues from the past belong in cars, not simly tweaking a 40 year old design and passing it off as new.

Kev
12-21-05, 09:15 PM
It's too soon to tell how the Mustang's styling will fare over the next few model. I used to be a Mustang nut. Many in that community don't care for the new car. I'm one of them.Let me ask, if I may, which Mustangs were you nutty about?

DBA-One
12-21-05, 09:26 PM
For me, I like the Fox Coupe. A four eye 5.0 is my fav. I also like SN95 cars. I've owned a '86 5.0 hatch, '93 black on black 5.0 coupe, and lastly a '98 GT coupe. I like older ones as well but really only 64-70. After that it all went bad to me until '85. I know about the whole "Boss is back" in '82 but that car wasn't quick.

turbojimmy
12-21-05, 09:40 PM
There is nothing wrong with the GTO. If it had "in your face styling" people would complain about that, too. People have to understand that cars designed for the Australian market are much more restrained than other regions. I’ve talked to a few people from down under who have confirmed that a car like the Holden Menaro(sp) would and does sell there while something like the 93-02 F-Body would struggle.

There's everything wrong with the GTO. It's a car developed for a completely different market re-badged and sold with a legendary U.S. nameplate slapped on it. It's bland an uninspiring to look at. It's only saving grace is the powertrain and evidently that hasn't been enough to move them out of showrooms. It was a decent idea that was terribly executed. As someone else mentioned in this thread, when you resurrect a nameplate there are expectations that go with it. The designers at GM missed the boat right out of the gate with the new GTO. Primarily because there was no 'design'. It's just GTO badges on a Monaro. It has zero relevance to the original marque. They couldn't even give it dual exhaust and hood scoops like every other GTO ever made. Once you fail so miserably, tacking on hood scoops does little to fix it. They missed all of the things that were cool about the original GTO.

The Mustang is a completely different story, first in that it's wildly successful and second that it was not a resurrection of an abandoned nameplate. The Mustang has followed a natural evolution and has gotten back to its original roots. I think they've done an awesome job 'crossing over' with that car. I was never a fan of the early models. I really found nothing appealing about them until the 5.0s came out. My love for the Mustang blossomed in the late '80s with the Fox body. I had a blown '88 GT droptop and would love to own another one. They've blended the old cues with modern styling in the new Mustang. I like them a lot. The new Cobra is going to be killer.

I don't go out of my way to bash GM, but when they beg for it with this GTO crap it's well deserved. Other manufacturers have figured out how to make stuff that people want to buy. Instead, GM pulls the plug on the F-body rather than try to compete with the Mustang. They did the same thing to their RWD sedans. In both cases they handed both markets directly to Ford. Those markets may have been struggling at the time, but abandoning them was very short-sighted IMO. It's coming back to bite them now.

Jiim

Kev
12-21-05, 09:50 PM
I can agree with most of those choices though I didn't care for the body styling of the late 90's. The Mustang II was a horrible disappointment for me but I grew up with the originals. With the exception of the 67 Shelby GT350 & 500's I didn't care for the 67-68. 64-66 are great in either fastback or coupe. Who wouldn't like the 69 Boss 302?! and the Mach I was no slouch in 69-72. I even liked the 73 a little.

The 79 was still too encumbered by smog requirements to interest me. I didn't start enjoying them again until 85 with the GT's and of course the 88 5.0 HO was tough to beat (California had mass air flow that year) and I like the LX coupe that I gave to my daughter. 88-93 was good for me in the coupe and convertibles, the GT's were too much added weight in useless ground effects and other body candy and I never cared for the hatch back.

But the new Mustang with the fog lamps has caught my eye.

So there's my opinion on the Mustang's history in a nutshell.

DBA-One
12-21-05, 09:55 PM
Well didn't Gm finally give it the scops and true duals? And 50 mor hp to boot? They really got it wrong with the price. It is too high. I'm not defending GM's business choices. Killing the F-Body gave thier piece of the pie away. However, the cars were not selling. Due in part by lack of attention by GM. Howerver, Bringing the Holden here wasn't all that bad of an idea. Ever see what Ford offers dow there? It is stunning that GM and Ford offer the things they do there and off so little here.

Randy_W
12-21-05, 10:09 PM
A little history, every GTO starting in 2004 has TRUE dual exhaust, yes the '04 had both pipes dumping on the left like the Monaro's do. They were still dual pipes, front to rear. In 1967 and 1968, a GTO could be ordered with the economy delete package that consisted of a low compression 400 2 bbl with 2.56 gears and yes, a single exhaust! As for the scoops, you guys seem to say that had they put them on the '04 it would have been fine, but since they waited until '05 it's now a bad thing??

By the way the '05's have sold quite well and '06 sales and orders are above early '05 so far. The next gen will address some of the styling issues, which I readily admit is passive. There is, however, nothing wrong with the car as a whole.

ben72227
12-21-05, 10:23 PM
Apparently the Monaro isn't a big hit in Australia either. It is ALSO a resurrected nameplate from Holden. The "classic" Monaros were comprable to our classic Muscle Cars...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/HTMonaroGTS.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Holden_Monaro_GTS_%28HG_series%2C_1970%29.jpg

So really, the new car is yucky. The only good thing about it is the Vette engine, but nobody wants to pay $30,000 for a muscle car that's blander than a Lexus:thepan:

Randy_W
12-21-05, 10:29 PM
Ben, you removed your age from the profile!:thumbsup:

DBA-One
12-21-05, 10:33 PM
I noticed that, too.

AlBundy
12-21-05, 10:37 PM
Well I noticed all of these Old/New models are all comming out with HP to spare. What's next increased speed limits or increased speeding tickets$$$?

turbojimmy
12-21-05, 11:05 PM
In 1967 and 1968, a GTO could be ordered with the economy delete package that consisted of a low compression 400 2 bbl with 2.56 gears and yes, a single exhaust!

Sorry for generalizing. The low-output 400s were a very, very small portion of the GTO population. I owned a low-output '67 GTO. When you look at how the car was marketed, where were the ads that showed the low-output, open-rear, single exhaust GTOs? There weren't any. 2 pipes coming out on the same side place doesn't mean 'dual exhaust' to 99.9% of the population. SLP tried it with the F-body, too, and quickly reailized what people really wanted. Mechanically it may really have dual exhaust, but it's just another example where they failed to realize the importance of maintaining marketing and visual conistency in the GTO marque.

I'm kind of torn on the scoop thing. Of all scoops to try to imitate they picked the tacked-on look of the '64 GTO. Anything else would've been better. The tear-drop bulge of '65-67 would've been great or the more molded looks of the '68-'69s. They just look out of place on the new ones.

I think they messed up the GTO, that's all. There were countless ways to do it better. If you mess it up with the first model year there's not much you can do to fix it going forward. They learned that the hard way with the Fiero. The '84 4-cylinders caught on fire. It was a decent car (I had an '87 GT) but it never recovered from that first year.

Jim

fast66
12-21-05, 11:13 PM
They have been selling the cuurent GTO in Kuwait since 1997 as a Caprice Classic SS, it comes with hoodscoops and dual exhaust. It has a huge following there.

LittleB
12-21-05, 11:52 PM
WOW :jawdrop: Beautiful.

LaneWvr
12-22-05, 12:00 AM
http://www.wheelsjamaica.com/wheels_forum/index.php?topic=34645.new

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

OH MY GOD!

If that thing is FOR REAL, then GM will definately be back on top. I told you all - GM wasn't going to have a retro design - they were going to be futuristic, and DAMNIT that is a futuristic design. Looks like they got the designers from the Cadillac Cien to do it...It looks so...futuristic...

Sorry but your wrong. It's a retro of the 68 Camero. Guy on here says 69 but thats wrong cause it dosen't have the fenders! http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420367
Pretty nice, I like it. Needs some work though. Tried to find more pics but most have been pulled by GM's request. According to the form I posted above, the pics were actually stolen!

Destroyer
12-22-05, 12:46 AM
Its flat out gorgeous, just like every version of the new Camaro I've seen. I have owned several f-body cars of every generation. Loved them all, even the 4rth gen (93-02) that doesn't seem to popular with you guys. I hope GM builds it. I think the retro thing is cool. Its a fad but lets face it, the best looking cars GM, Ford and Chrysler made were in the 60's. The retro thing gives us the best of all years, new tech, high hp, and the looks. I'm all for it, keep em coming!.

ben72227
12-22-05, 01:26 AM
Ben, you removed your age from the profile!:thumbsup:

And?:rolleyes:

Randy_W
12-22-05, 08:50 AM
And?:rolleyes:

Oh, I thought maybe you grew up.:histeric:

Randy_W
12-22-05, 08:57 AM
Sorry for generalizing. The low-output 400s were a very, very small portion of the GTO population. I owned a low-output '67 GTO. When you look at how the car was marketed, where were the ads that showed the low-output, open-rear, single exhaust GTOs? There weren't any. 2 pipes coming out on the same side place doesn't mean 'dual exhaust' to 99.9% of the population. SLP tried it with the F-body, too, and quickly reailized what people really wanted. Mechanically it may really have dual exhaust, but it's just another example where they failed to realize the importance of maintaining marketing and visual conistency in the GTO marque.

I'm kind of torn on the scoop thing. Of all scoops to try to imitate they picked the tacked-on look of the '64 GTO. Anything else would've been better. The tear-drop bulge of '65-67 would've been great or the more molded looks of the '68-'69s. They just look out of place on the new ones.

I think they messed up the GTO, that's all. There were countless ways to do it better. If you mess it up with the first model year there's not much you can do to fix it going forward. They learned that the hard way with the Fiero. The '84 4-cylinders caught on fire. It was a decent car (I had an '87 GT) but it never recovered from that first year.

Jim

Actually they did advertise them as "The Secratery's GTO". Not very appealing, I admit. I'm a Pontiac guy and have been for most of my life. I bought a new '85 Fiero GT and had a blast with it. Fieros were selling well when GM killed them off. They were still quite profitable, but GM wanted more capacity to build trucks and Chevy complained that the upcoming '89 and later cars would take away Vette sales. Ever see the details on the ready for production '89? The Formula was going to be a 210 h.p. n/a Quad 4 while the GT was to have a Turbo version with 255h.p.

Katshot
12-22-05, 09:28 AM
Wow! This thread really grew since the last time I visited! Kev touched on something I've wondered about for a while. Would there be a market for a '69 Camaro built with 2006 technology but with the EXACT interior and exterior designs of the original? How about a '57 Chevy? Or a '59 Eldo? I'm not advocating bringing all the old cars back but how about if GM took the lead in an ALL NEW market? Say they produce a select group of well-known and loved classics with today's technology? Is there a way to do it? I don't know for sure, but I'd love to see a brand new '70 Olds H.O. with an LS7, SIR, ABS, Bose sound system, re-engineered suspension....and a factory warranty!

As far as the GTO, prior to driving the '05, I really wasn't sure I liked it at all. But after driving it a while, and sitting for a while looking at it from different angles, I really started to like it a lot. It drives SO NICE, has such great power, is very comfortable inside, and sounds SO sweet! My only issue quite frankly was the lack of a useful trunk. Having a 2-door is tough enough on everyday utility but no truck kills the deal. As for the styling, and issues that they supposedly missed on the '04, I think GM did whay they could with what they had. They had no cars in their international lineup that could easily be made into a GTO and there was no time or money to start with a clean slate design. The design "could've" been a little better I guess, but I don't feel it's anywhere near as bad as many make it out to be. Dual exhaust is dual exhaust in my book. Where the tailpipes exit is a subjective issue really. Personally, I prefer them on opposite sides as in a "classic" dual exhaust but hell, the Corvette doesn't do it that way, does it not have TRUE dual exhaust? As for GM missing the boat in the '04 model year and that making for a lack of credibility, yeah, I suppose that's a possibility. It's hard to overcome a bad first impression right?

70eldo
12-22-05, 09:31 AM
Again, how about just come up with a new name/model?
Sure would take away a lot of expectations and disappointments based on the prior models... :thumbsup:

turbojimmy
12-22-05, 09:35 AM
Ever see the details on the ready for production '89? The Formula was going to be a 210 h.p. n/a Quad 4 while the GT was to have a Turbo version with 255h.p.

No, I never saw that. The car had its quirks, but I really liked the '87. You don't see them anymore. I'm not sure if it's because there wern't many to begin with or that they didn't hold up well. I see more Turbo Regals from the era than I do Fieros.

Jim

turbojimmy
12-22-05, 09:52 AM
Dual exhaust is dual exhaust in my book. Where the tailpipes exit is a subjective issue really. Personally, I prefer them on opposite sides as in a "classic" dual exhaust but hell, the Corvette doesn't do it that way, does it not have TRUE dual exhaust?

Now that I think about it, does anything have a true dual exhaust anymore? As in a pipe off of each header running the whole way back? I know the F-bodies are crossed-over into one cat and one intermediate pipe and one muffler before they split out into 2 tailpipes. Is the Vette the same way?

And as far as success of the new GTO goes, 'success' is in the eye of the beholder. They cut production by 30% 2004 to 2005 so now they are meeting their sales goals. Lowering the bar certainly makes it easy to succeed.

I don't think they did their marketing homework with the car. They may be able to re-invent it but I do wish they would have left the GTO name rest in peace.

Jim

Randy_W
12-22-05, 10:37 AM
Kat, I have to agree on the trunk of the GTO, again that was a result of the comprimise. The feds wouldn't sign off on the gas tank where it was so they moved it to the front of the trunk and took 1/2 the space.
Turbojimmie, yes the GTO, Mustang V8, CTS with the big V6 and the CTSv, the STS, Vette, SRX and XLR have true duals.

HotRodSaint
12-22-05, 11:25 AM
Would there be a market for a '69 Camaro built with 2006 technology but with the EXACT interior and exterior designs of the original?

Unique Performance is offering a Chip Foose designed '69 Camaro with upgraded technology. But it's 150,000 grand...

The trend right now, to restomod these cars. Most of the numbers matching rare V8's have been restored. So now we have run of the mill V8's being brought up to somewhat modern standards.

I think GM makes enough the GM Performance in to be happy.

turbojimmy
12-22-05, 11:45 AM
Unique Performance is offering a Chip Foose designed '69 Camaro with upgraded technology. But it's 150,000 grand...
The trend right now, to restomod these cars. Most of the numbers matching rare V8's have been restored. So now we have run of the mill V8's being brought up to somewhat modern standards.
I think GM makes enough the GM Performance in to be happy.

There's guys doing really cool LSx and modern suspension retrofits into old Vettes, too. My dad mentions them every time he fusses with the carbs on his Vettes. I think he'd really like to drop an LS6 into his '80. I think Paul Newman owns one of the companies doing it. Either that or it was salad dressing. Or popcorn.

EDIT: here's the link http://www.carcreationsinc.com/

Jim

Katshot
12-22-05, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I've seen those companies. They do some interesting work. But I'm talking about the FACTORY doing them from the ground up with modern technology. Not just swapping some drivetrain and suspension components into an old car. I'm talking about making a car that LOOKS as much as possible like the original, but use up to date technology in everything from seating to HVAC. Give them power windows and locks, air bags, the whole shabang! Or how about just dropping an old body on a new chassis to save money?

Kev
12-22-05, 01:25 PM
Yeah, I've seen those companies. They do some interesting work. But I'm talking about the FACTORY doing them from the ground up with modern technology. Not just swapping some drivetrain and suspension components into an old car. I'm talking about making a car that LOOKS as much as possible like the original, but use up to date technology in everything from seating to HVAC. Give them power windows and locks, air bags, the whole shabang! Or how about just dropping an old body on a new chassis to save money?That's an interesting spin on what I mentioned. I would never expect that to actually happen though it would be very cool and I expect very expensive, limited offerings. The nostalgic look with today's refinements would be a winning combination for quite a few old relics such as myself!

DBA-One
12-22-05, 02:07 PM
I see limited appeal in an '06 '69 Camaro. Sure they would sell some. Of course they would. But it would be a halo car. Those don't sell in enough numbers to really turn a big profit like GM needs to do. If Gm were to do something like Kat mentioned I'd be a bit miffed. They didn't have the money for the newer RWD cars and canceled the program and if they did something like I mentioned in my first sentence I'd know they have compleltey gone nuts.

Isn't there a company that is now making new Camaro bodies? You can basically build your own these days. There isn't much sense in GM doing a factory retro rod.

The Camaro name is too valuble to not be brought back to life. I just think they need to do it in a way that appeals to a large group of buyers and not just those who were there back in the old days.

HotRodSaint
12-23-05, 01:09 AM
Isn't there a company that is now making new Camaro bodies?

Yeah, I saw that being offered over at Classic Industries. Officialy licensed steel bodies.

ShadowLvr400
12-23-05, 10:35 AM
I prefer the Chris Horton designed Camaro over GM's apparent one. (Katshot posted the Orange one, that's a Horton sketch from a few years back actually.)

Katshot
12-23-05, 11:27 AM
That's Kris Horton alright! I like his designs. How 'bout this one:

AlBundy
12-23-05, 11:37 PM
That does it for me. That's one badass design.

Caddy Man
12-24-05, 12:47 AM
I was on the Chevy/Cadillac dealer today talking to one of the salepeople and we touched on the Camaro concept. He showed me this picture, he said we arent supposed to know what it looks like exactly, but he said its very similiar to this design I attatched. He said the drawing was by an art student somwhere in California, and GM acutally worked something out with him because they wanted to do a design very similiar to his drawing. He was telling me one of this customers, his cousin is someone higher up at GM, and was also telling him he cant show him what it looks like since that could get everyone into a lot of trouble, but its pretty similiar to what we will see. The concept we also see at the auto show is basically what we get. Just as the Mustang concept is basically what we got in production. The salseman was telling me some lady already dropped a 1000 dollar deposit for a car she hasnt even seen!

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0409phr_camaro_13_z.jpg

Katshot
12-24-05, 08:55 AM
Not bad, all the true authorities around the country are unable to uncover anything more than rumors and here a 21 year old kid is able to get the facts from a dealership salesman just by asking. Why didn't any journalists think of that? ;)

Caddy Man
12-24-05, 04:45 PM
Not bad, all the true authorities around the country are unable to uncover anything more than rumors and here a 21 year old kid is able to get the facts from a dealership salesman just by asking. Why didn't any journalists think of that? ;)
haha yes I know what your thinking, but your forgetting I am from the Detroit area, a lot of people around here are very involved in the auto industry. There are people aroung here who have family that are high up in GM, Ford and Chrysler or know people that are. We see a lot of camoflaged cars just driving on random streets here in Michigan. The saleman was a younger more enthusiast type of guy, not saying he is right, but that sjust what he told me.