: The last American car!!



Randy_W
12-19-05, 10:01 PM
Check this out, politics aside, it's very disturbing!! :(

http://automotivemileposts.com/garage/v3n9.html

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-19-05, 10:13 PM
yah that is sad

DopeStar 156
12-19-05, 10:21 PM
Wow..... I don't even know what to say....... I honestly feel like crying.... I for one swear to never buy any car not built by GM, Ford, or Chrysler, ever. I really don't know what to say right now..... You can bet I'll be circulating that.....

SilverFleetwood85
12-19-05, 10:25 PM
The article reveals the problem faced by most people who buy a foreign made car, should I have a dead reliable car or support the American economy. As I have said in my past posts, I am very disappointed with most new American cars I sit in. Their are no easy answers to this problem, but I think the American Economy will survive better then what is predicted in the article. GM, needs to come out with a good family sedan, and stop making cars that only appeal to Fleet buyers.

Playdrv4me
12-19-05, 10:42 PM
When the likes of Packard, Nash, Studebaker, and DeSoto began to disappear 50 years ago...
Funny he includes Packard and Studebaker in there... when it was the big three themselves that put them and others out of business in one way or another to begin with :rolleyes: In a strange way completing their own precipitous circle...

Packard and Studebaker btw who really took no prisoners when it came to making cars that were VASTLY ahead of their time in safety AND technology in a time when no Japanese company could touch them, and the Europeans werent an issue. If we still had that spirit alive today, If GM, Ford and DCX had embraced their rivals as healthy competition rather than stomping them into the ground, who knows... things might be different today.

...Foreign brands such as...Mitsubishi have become so popular...
Ok thats just funny...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-19-05, 10:46 PM
yes, very odd indeed.....maybe theres a new big 3 in town:
-Honda
-Toyota
-Nissan?

ben72227
12-19-05, 10:54 PM
:bigroll:

Right. And when the American Auto industry bites the dust, they will have no one to blame but themselves. Why do you think people even bought Honda's in the first place???:thumbsup: It's because America stopped making quality cars. You can only put up with so many K-cars, Cavaliers, Berettas(sp?), Dodge's, etc. before you finally just throw your arms up in frustration.

I guess though, if Americans stopped making cars, then it would put mechanics out of business too:), since Jap cars don't break down...:stirpot:

All kiding aside though, American car makers are coming back. Chrysler's new designs are the best looking in the world, Ford's introduction of the Freestyle, Fusion, and Mustang have rejuvenated(sp?) them, and GM...well...actually GM doesn't have anything going for them - They have no pony car, their trucks are obsolete, their cars are all Wrong Wheel Drive, and the Cadillacs all look the same, with the new Escalade predicted to take a nosedive in sales with its hideous redesign:thumbsup:

Maybe the Saturn AURA can save GM:stirpot:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-19-05, 10:55 PM
what does (sp?) mean?

Sandy
12-19-05, 10:55 PM
THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS A MASTERPIECE OF WRITING! I will print that and make several copies. It needs to be handed to anyone even remotely thinking of buying a car other than GM, Ford and maybe, with a stretch, Chreysler.
It's so true, of exactly what can (and will) take place. You think not? Did you ever think you'd see Mercedes buy Chrysler? Plymouth end? Oldsmobile end? Course not, and the masses would never think the imiginary facts in this article...could become reality, but they most certainly will, if the public continues lapping up every foreign car that comes along. Humans are very short sighted anyway, and given a reason to ignore shortsightness (Asian / German cars are better) is all they need. Most lease for 30 months, the entire time any car is under warrantee i.e. no $$$$ outta pocket. Nothing is really going to go wrong in 30 months, yet, they buy Toyota over Chevy or Ford, because they are sold on quality? Things only gonna have 25,000 miles on it when they dump it! :cookoo:

terrible one
12-19-05, 10:57 PM
what does (sp?) mean?

It means "spelling?" as in "Not sure if I spelt that right"

ben72227
12-19-05, 11:02 PM
Nothing is really going to go wrong in 30 months, yet, they buy Toyota over Chevy or Ford, because they are sold on quality? Things only gonna have 25,000 miles on it when they dump it! :cookoo:

Sandy I wish we were all as rich as you are:thumbsup:
The fact is that people nowadays that have a mortage(sp?), 2 kids and a car payment can't afford to buy a new car every 3 years. They want (and need) cars that will last them for like 7-10 years. The cars don't have to be the best looking, or the most fancy either; but they need to be efficient and reliable. And Jap cars are both:thumbsup:

Now, American auto makers are getting better, but they're still a bit behind. The new designs are nice, but most of them still lack some refinement that is needed. Perfect example - the CTS. It's a great comeback car, but I bet the next generation will be EXCELLENT:thumbsup: I mean, judging by how nice the new Buick Lucerne is, I can tell that GM is only getting better with each step they take...

Still, they are doing some questionable things - like a FWD Impala, no pony car in sight, etc...:confused:

Playdrv4me
12-19-05, 11:10 PM
no pony car in sight, etc...:confused:

They will be showing the new Camaro concept in Detroit.

SilverFleetwood85
12-19-05, 11:11 PM
Yes Sandy, you are right about the fact most people lease their cars, but their are many who don't. People who buy Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are buying them usually because they owned one in the past, its all about their excelent (reliability) track record which the big 3 have lost.

For example, my aunt had a 1990 Toyota Corolla, that thing went 200,000 miles without a problem and she is not the best a maintaining a car. The car finally did die but it wasn't the cars fault. So she goes out to buy another car she won't even look at another brand and buys a 2004 Camry. I know the Camry is new but it has needed no warranty repairs.

iametarq
12-19-05, 11:11 PM
That's horrible. I don't want to think about there not being any American Cars. Makes me want to go out and by a Buy American bumper sticker.

DopeStar 156
12-20-05, 12:08 AM
Jap cars don't break down...
Hahahaaha! Yeah ok... Sure thing. My friend's Civic crapped out at 90k and it was stock. My other friend's Mitsubishi bit the dust at 110k, and my cousin's Accord, 89k.... Meanwhile my Fleetwood has close to 130k and runs like it's brand new..... Also my grandma's Accord which is like a year and a half old went in for servicing twice..... My point is all cars break down no matter where they were built. There's no real difference, new parts are new parts. Don't be swayed by rumors, rumors are rarely true. We rely heavily on our automakers for a healhy economy and all we're doing is screwing ourselves in the long run.


They have no pony car
GTO? Monte Carlo?

JC316
12-20-05, 12:31 AM
The biggest problem with american auto makers is how many sub divisions they have. GM= Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac and Saab. Chrsyler, Dodge, Jeep and Mitsubishi. Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and Mazda. It goes on and on. They used to be distinctive, but now they are just carbon copies with a different badge on them. Now, how many Sable's didn't sell because people bought the Taurus? If GM consisted of Chevrolet as the mainstream and Cadillac as the luxury, I think they would do much better. They could conserve their factories and engineres to making quality cars to compete with the foreign market. Just my .02 cents.

Kev
12-20-05, 01:24 AM
...Why do you think people even bought Honda's in the first place??? ....I believe I can answer that one for you Ben. It's because they were cheap, gas stingy and novel. Quality was dismal in the early Japanese imports but customer service was impressively attentive.

The cars were made of thin sheet metal which made them nice and light but also no match for Detroit iron in a collision. Thus, they were considered by many to be potential death traps. There was a lot of plastic in them as well. Things seemed to break on them very easily.

The Honda 600 Coupes and Sedans were among the most popular back then. They were diminutive cars from which most expected a troupe of clowns to emerge where ever they parked. They were gutless little wonders but because they were so small they felt like they handled like go-carts, if fact, there were a lot of go-cart jokes made about them.

But, as I said, they were quite novel and I think that was one of the biggest reasons they sold so well back then. :)

Night Wolf
12-20-05, 01:44 AM
My father told me lots of stories of people he knew that got killed in the early Jap cars.....

his g/f's sister and some friends... the sister and 1 friend died, the driver was badly hurt, but lived... as their ~1979 Honda Civic crossed the double yellow and hit a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass head on... well, the driver side corner, catching the bumper.

The guy driving the Cutlass drove the car home.

I don't care how much they saved on gas, it was a freakin death trap that I woudln't get anywhere near.

ben72227
12-20-05, 01:48 AM
and while GM was going down in a heap of flames (in the Roger Smith era), Honda was building itself up and ended the 80's with the Accord and the Acura brand:highfive:. In less than 20 years, Honda had become THE asian car company...of course, Toyota came along with Lexus and became the number one...but Honda is still the most reliable...They make some...questionable products (like the Element)...but then again, GM made the Aztek:rolleyes:


Hahahaaha! Yeah ok... Sure thing. My friend's Civic crapped out at 90k and it was stock. My other friend's Mitsubishi bit the dust at 110k, and my cousin's Accord, 89k.... Meanwhile my Fleetwood has close to 130k and runs like it's brand new..... Also my grandma's Accord which is like a year and a half old went in for servicing twice..... My point is all cars break down no matter where they were built. There's no real difference, new parts are new parts. Don't be swayed by rumors, rumors are rarely true. We rely heavily on our automakers for a healhy economy and all we're doing is screwing ourselves in the long run.

I'm not "swayed by rumours." I'm swayed by my own experiences. I had my '89 Accord hatchback for 10 years, with well over 200,000 miles and i NEVER had problems with it. Then I had my '98 Accord until i bought an '05 CR-V. NONE of my Hondas have ever given my problems, and neither has my '99 V6 Camry...Everyone told my my engine was supposed to "sludge up" but guess what? It never did...

All these cars had proper maintainence at regular intervals performed, had the oil changed at the correct intervals, etc. I take care of my vehicles. The Cadillac takes a little EXTRA care:thumbsup: and I've spent more on it than its worth, but I keep it because I love it, like we all do:highfive:

Besides, Mitsubishis are CRAP and they're Chrysler cars (or used to be anyway), so I consider them to be as Japanese as much as I consider Chrysler to be American:thepan:


GTO? Monte Carlo?

Those are MUSCLE cars, and VERY BAD muscle cars at that. THe GTO is a half-assed Australian car (which looks like a Chevy Cavalier:thehand: ) and the Monte is quite possible the worst car ever. I mean, it went from being cool (remember the one Denzel drove in Training Day?) to being a NASCAR look-alike POS...


If GM consisted of Chevrolet as the mainstream and Cadillac as the luxury, I think they would do much better. They could conserve their factories and engineres to making quality cars to compete with the foreign market. Just my .02 cents.

That's a good arguement, but a bit extreme. With the elimination of Oldsmobile, it seems now that every brand makes sense:

Chevy - cheap cars, and the flagship brand
Pontiac - "sporty" cars, but really, its the brand for Women
Saturn - upscale cars bread and butter cars...something to compete with VW...
GMC - Work Trucks
Hummer - Hummers
Cadillac - Flamboyant Luxury
Buick - Conservative Luxury
Saab - GM's bland European brand (They should get rid of this one)
Holden - GM's Australian brand
Opel - GM's German brand
Vauxhall - GM's UK brand...:thumbsup:


I don't care how much they saved on gas, it was a freakin death trap that I woudln't get anywhere near.

It's funny how GM cars have become deathtraps (Cavalier, Aveo) while Hondas have become number one. Like I said, when we got lazy, they went into overdrive...and it paid off...

Kev
12-20-05, 02:01 AM
Sandy I wish we were all as rich as you are:thumbsup:
The fact is that people nowadays that have a mortage(sp?), 2 kids and a car payment can't afford to buy a new car every 3 years. They want (and need) cars that will last them for like 7-10 years. The cars don't have to be the best looking, or the most fancy either; but they need to be efficient and reliable. And Jap cars are both:thumbsup:

Now, American auto makers are getting better, but they're still a bit behind. The new designs are nice, but most of them still lack some refinement that is needed. Perfect example - the CTS. It's a great comeback car, but I bet the next generation will be EXCELLENT:thumbsup: I mean, judging by how nice the new Buick Lucerne is, I can tell that GM is only getting better with each step they take...

Still, they are doing some questionable things - like a FWD Impala, no pony car in sight, etc...:confused:I have a wife, three kids and a mortgage but no car payments. I can't afford to buy a new car so I buy mine used. My wife drives our 96 Aerostar which we are second owners. It has around 130K and is still running strong (yes, we just had the tranny rebuilt but that is the only major repair). We've had the car for over 7 years.

Then there is the 88 Mustang which I recently passed down to my oldest daughter. I bought it about 14 years ago (3rd owner) with 44K on the clock. It now has over 330K with no major repairs (other than head gaskets) and I've never replaced the clutch.

Last is my 89 DeVille. It started as a Delco fleet car and my neighbor bought and put 74K on it. I bought it last July and it has just recently passed the 100K milestone. No major problems, it drives like a dream and has been very dependable.

In fact, all of my cars have been used, only two were imports. My first was a 67 VW Bug which I beat to death, the second was a 71 RX-2. All of my cars have been relaible when I took proper care of them but the nicest of them have been the Mustang, the Sable and especially the DeVille.

I can't think of an import that I would be interested in buying new or used.

DopeStar 156
12-20-05, 02:10 AM
It's funny how GM cars have become deathtraps (Cavalier, Aveo) while Hondas have become number one. Like I said, when we got lazy, they went into overdrive...and it paid off...
Not necessarily death traps, they all have airbags, ABS, the works. I am in no way a fan of the Aveo but it's just GM trying to compete with the other tiny ass economy cars on the market and in case you haven't noticed over the years, that's not GM's speciality. The Cavalier at least the Z-24 model I never found to be that bad, they're actually pretty fun to drive. Tiny economy cars aren't what people want from GM, if that were the case GEO would still be open. GM needs to go back to it's roots, the glory days of the company. V8's are selling again as are larger vehicles. Hell Honda came out with a V8 Pickup truck. All the Japanese brands are building V8's now. They just can't stand up to the original, no matter how hard they try here.

ben72227
12-20-05, 02:14 AM
I can't think of an import that I would be interested in buying new or used.

I don't think I could buy anything from Europe new, but I could from Japan. Lots of European cars look very appealing to me (especially VW's stuff) but they too, are, for the most part, unreliable and expensive to fix. Japanese cars are bland (or just not as flamboyant as American cars;) ), but I know from past experiences that I won't have to have anything done to them besides regular maintenence(sp?). That's been my experiences anyway, and I do take care of my cars. I'm sure if you don't take care of your cars (no matter who makes it) it will have problems...

My Cadillac though, is another story. It's on its third engine, and since I've had it, I've had to replace the radiator, the starter, both batteries, the brakes, the coolant overflow tank, the oil pan, the windshield washer pump, and the paint:(. Granted, this car is 26 years old, but STILL, 3 engines??:lildevil::sneaky: Which is why it's my only American car (at the moment, anyway)

;)

Hell Honda came out with a V8 Pickup truck.

V6. Honda still doesn't have a V8, nor do they need one. If they did have one though...it would definately be the end of GM :lildevil:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:14 AM
All of my cars have been relaible when I took proper care of them but the nicest of them have been the Mustang, the Sable and especially the DeVille.

Did the Sable have the 3.8? They are notorious for headgasket failures

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:16 AM
My Cadillac though, is another story. It's on its third engine, and since I've had it, I've had to replace the radiator, the starter, both batteries, the brakes, the coolant overflow tank, the oil pan, the windshield washer pump, and the paint:(. Granted, this car is 26 years old, but STILL, 3 engines??:lildevil::sneaky: Which is why it's my only American car (at the moment, anyway)
;)

It's the goddamn 350 diesel what did you expect?!
:bomb::bomb: :bomb:
If you're gonna base your entire opinion of american cars' "lack of reliability" on your experience with one of the worst engines of all time, then you need to some help. But I know you have more common sense than to base your entire "hatred" of GM on the 350 diesel.

(its been a rough night, im not mad with you)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:21 AM
I hear Honda is coming out with a V8 for the Pilot, Ridgeline and something for the Acura RL too

Kev
12-20-05, 02:25 AM
Did the Sable have the 3.8? They are notorious for headgasket failuresYes, it did have the 3.8 and the gaskets blew. It was a defect in the early 3.8's. The other thing I hated about the engine was changing the plugs against the firewall. Other than that the engine had very nice power and still managed to get decent mileage. It was my first FWD and it was a graceful lady for which I am glad.

Kev
12-20-05, 02:33 AM
..My Cadillac though, is another story. It's on its third engine, and since I've had it, I've had to replace the radiator, the starter, both batteries, the brakes, the coolant overflow tank, the oil pan, the windshield washer pump, and the paint:(. Granted, this car is 26 years old, but STILL, 3 engines??:lildevil::sneaky: Which is why it's my only American car (at the moment, anyway)

;)
...Is that the infamous gas conversion diesel engine? Those were ill conceived at best, weren't designed for the pressure of a true diesel. They were known for early failure.

Now, as a gasoline engine the 350 is nearly bullet proof!

Night Wolf
12-20-05, 02:35 AM
my 27 year old American car is on its origanal engine, no major work done at all. I do not baby it either (nor do I beat on it). Funny how some things go both ways.

I think a certain person really needs to leave this place already....

Kev
12-20-05, 02:49 AM
One of the cars that I wish I still had was my 70 1/2 Camaro. I sold it to a friend of mine who I believe still has it.

It was a 'Plain Jane' with a 350cid/350TH, only 2bbl and no power options or A/C. I bought it from my girlfriend's Dad who let it overheat so bad the he warped the heads. I picked it up for $500, put on a fresh set of 'Fuelie' heads, dual exhaust, new tires and buffed out the old red lacquer paint.

It had a 273 10 bolt and got 25+ mpg on the highway! Had plenty of torque and with the dual exhaust sounded like a small block Vette. That was a sweet little ride. Decided to sell it after I was married and had a little one on the way. We needed a family car so I sold it and bought a 73 Country Squire for $800 which I drove into the ground 5 years later.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:50 AM
Rick that certain person knows very much about Cadillac's history and does like Cadillac alot, he may be somewhat anti GM, but hes got some good points too :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:51 AM
Is that the infamous gas conversion diesel engine?
Yup!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 02:52 AM
Yes, it did have the 3.8 and the gaskets blew. It was a defect in the early 3.8's. The other thing I hated about the engine was changing the plugs against the firewall. Other than that the engine had very nice power and still managed to get decent mileage. It was my first FWD and it was a graceful lady for which I am glad.

Yeah I remember my friend had a 93 Taurus GL with that 3.8. It had a very good amount of low end torque for a V6, he did some really nice burnouts in that car!

Night Wolf
12-20-05, 02:55 AM
Rick that certain person knows very much about Cadillac's history and does like Cadillac alot, he may be somewhat anti GM, but hes got some good points too :)

I see no need to stick up for said person.

I wouldn't consider copying and pasting some facts from other websites once a week knowing alot about Cadillac history.....

Somewhat? every other word he types is bashing GM/praising Honda/Nissan/Toyota. It gets old REAL fast, especially with the stupid emoticons to further instigate.

Really, only sticks around for the attention, like a little kid.... go to NICO, Honda-Tech and whatever Toyota site there is, join in on praising them and bashing GM there... atleast so I, or any of us actually interested in GM don't have to hear this crap.

Playdrv4me
12-20-05, 08:13 AM
I hear Honda is coming out with a V8 for the Pilot, Ridgeline and something for the Acura RL too

I wanna hear more about this!

Not that id ever own a honda, byut this wuld put them on an almosrt even playing field withLexus!

I can hear the boardroom conversation in Japanese now... "Colleagues, the day we had all hoped would never materialize is here... Our production of a V8 engine is now...inevitable!" (GASP!)

70eldo
12-20-05, 08:38 AM
The worst that could happen is that any of the American brands is share taken by a foreighn brand. Like Benz did with Chrysler. What I see what the result is, it is not that bad! You keep the brand name and you keep your work in the US. You just make it a little crappy enough, so even the workshops have work enough =). And Chrysler shares German high quality technology.

You will never see a Japanese brand taking over US car manufacturing capacity and cease the US name. That would definately be intactful for the excistence. They also need the competition to survive.

Benz certainly kept the Chrysler line and Mercedes line wide apart, so they wouldn't have competition among their own lines. That is what GM should do too!

Randy_W
12-20-05, 08:53 AM
I don't think I could buy anything from Europe new, but I could from Japan. Lots of European cars look very appealing to me (especially VW's stuff) but they too, are, for the most part, unreliable and expensive to fix. Japanese cars are bland (or just not as flamboyant as American cars;) ), but I know from past experiences that I won't have to have anything done to them besides regular maintenence(sp?). That's been my experiences anyway, and I do take care of my cars. I'm sure if you don't take care of your cars (no matter who makes it) it will have problems...

My Cadillac though, is another story. It's on its third engine, and since I've had it, I've had to replace the radiator, the starter, both batteries, the brakes, the coolant overflow tank, the oil pan, the windshield washer pump, and the paint:(. Granted, this car is 26 years old, but STILL, 3 engines??:lildevil::sneaky: Which is why it's my only American car (at the moment, anyway)

;)


V6. Honda still doesn't have a V8, nor do they need one. If they did have one though...it would definately be the end of GM :lildevil:


Everything you replaced except the oil pan is a regular maintenance item on a 26 year old car.

You're vast overuse of :stirpot: :lildevil: shows us that you're a typical very immature teenager. Join a debating team, grow up, mature, then spread your opinion on someone who cares, Trollboy!:bigroll:

70eldo
12-20-05, 09:10 AM
Granted, this car is 26 years old, but STILL, 3 engines??:lildevil::sneaky: Which is why it's my only American car (at the moment, anyway)

It's not a surprise that Cadillac/Oldsmobile cancelled their Diesel program :D

RobertCTS
12-20-05, 09:55 AM
Interesting thread. I've posted my thoughts in other similar threads regarding imports. I will not buy one for a lot of reasons. First I think America makes more than enough fine cars to select from without looking to imports. Second, the imports take away jobs from American workers and weaken our economy. Third, many of the imports are subsidised by their Government and their Government has big tariffs on our cars making it difficult for us to sell American cars abroad.

Fourth is like sour grapes. I haven't forgotten what these countries have done to us. Several have been at war with us and two have denied us support in Iraq after all we have done for them. I'm a Veteran and I know what the mind set is of these countries. IF I had to buy an import it would be English. Unfortunately they no longer makes cars. That in itself is sad.

Lord Cadillac
12-20-05, 11:13 AM
I think we all forget that not everyone who buys foreign cars buy them because they're more reliable. That's not the only reason. Many people just like them better.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-20-05, 11:41 AM
I see no need to stick up for said person.

I wouldn't consider copying and pasting some facts from other websites once a week knowing alot about Cadillac history.....

Somewhat? every other word he types is bashing GM/praising Honda/Nissan/Toyota. It gets old REAL fast, especially with the stupid emoticons to further instigate.

Really, only sticks around for the attention, like a little kid.... go to NICO, Honda-Tech and whatever Toyota site there is, join in on praising them and bashing GM there... atleast so I, or any of us actually interested in GM don't have to hear this crap.

Maybe I am just too naive to really see his statements for what they are......

Elvis
12-20-05, 11:50 AM
I hear Honda is coming out with a V8 for the Pilot, Ridgeline and something for the Acura RL too

I heard that rumor six years ago. It was supposed to be for the RL in 2003.

If the Ridgeline, MDX, and Pilot didn't warrant a V8, I can't imagine what else would, particularly with $3.00 gas projected as the stabilizing point.

Also remember that everything Honda makes is high-compression and requires premium gas. So theres an extra .25c per gallon built in.

Don't get me wrong, I love Honda quality and will likely someday own another one. But it will have to pass the comfort test. I'm done with these cars designed by short people FOR short people.

DBA-One
12-20-05, 12:44 PM
I've owned three Accord Coupes. They have all been great cars. My wife drives a '91 Acura Legend. I call it the Crapura. It didn't even have 80k miles on it before the tranny, ABS, etc all went bad. It has electrical problems, too. I was surprised by this knowing Honda's quality. I owned an Accord that was older than this car and better so it wasn't just an age thing. That car has been a disappointment.

My '92 Seville has none of the problems the Acura does. I even feel it is better built and it is sure much easier to work on. Ever seen the engine bay of a Legend?.

I own my cars outright and have no plans to buy something brand new. I despise car payments and the only way I'll get back in to one is if the Acura totally dies on us. However, I've looked at a few new cars recently and most were American. I liked what I saw. The Fusion is a nice looking car. I drove a Ford 500 and I found it to be very well built. It lacked power but it seemed to be a good car.

Now, on to what GM has to offer. The new STS and DTS from Caddy are nice looking cars. If I were to spend that kind of money I'd buy a DTS over any other new car, even Benz, BMW, Jag, etc. The new Impala is a very good looking car. I like it. The Buick Lucerne is gorgeous. I commend them on this car. Even if Buick stole the rear from the Phaton I don't care. I really like the look of this new car. Even now that Pontiac has stopped putting all that ugly side cladding on their cars things have gotten better. The new Bonneville (with the V8) is a car I would consider. I like the G6 coupe as well. I don't care for the Solstice but that is because I don't like convertible cars. The last generation Aurora was a great looking car I thought as well.

I like the Chrysler 300 but not the Charger. A proper Charger would never have four doors. The SRT 4 may be based on one of the worst cars ever, the Neon but they have little in common really. Dodge really got that right. The car is affordable to the younger people who are in to the boy racer thing, it's very powerful and has a lot of room to grow. Dodge even offers up to stage three power improvement kits. While I don't care for the cars looks I've got respect for what it can do.

Now that I've babbled on I'll close with the statement that the US automakers have plenty of good cars to offer. They now have to really work hard on getting people to come to the showroom to look. All US car makers built poop in the 80's and early 90's but they have really improved. Magazines and shows need to be fair, too. I've read too many articles where a reviewer has to pick some small detail and they pronounce a car crap for all the wrong reasons. It sometimes seems to me they get paid just to trash a new GM, Ford, or Dodge while any other automaker can't do any wrong.

Night Wolf
12-20-05, 12:51 PM
Yeah Honda is due for a V8 in 2008 or so.

I don't care at the very least.

They are already far behind Nissan and Toyota.....

light years behind the Americans.

Really.... if Honda makes a V8, it'll follow their V6 and I4.... probably about 4.2L, DOHC, V-tec, 350hp and 250ft-lbs of torque.

The Ridgeline is a complete joke, the Pilot is a streched Accord chassis..... why would you put a V8 in such a sissy "truck" is beyond me.

At least the Tundra, and moreso the Titan are real, manly type trucks, full box frame, RWD/4WD, transfer case, lot more torque then HP (even with DOHC)..... they are TRUCKS..... Honda has yet to make anything remotely close to a truck. Even the Tacoma/Frontier are good small trucks... the Tacoma being a personal favorite of mine.

Sorry, but I don't consider Honda a threat... mostly because they do not make a product I am interested in, therefor I would never consider them. Toyota? Yeah, I would take a Tacoma over an S10.... well Colorado now, or Ranger..... so in that case, Toyota would be getting the sale (though I would be buying used) but when talking Honda...... they don't make a thing that I would go out of my way to own.

The Honda V8 is also due in the next generation NSX.....

but really, those were right around $100k when sold.... you can buy a new Corvette Z06 for about, what? $70k and run 11.7s @ 126mph...... Lets see the NSX compare to that.

Or the Dodge SRT-8 cars with the Hemi.... 12's in a full size, 4 door automatic car..... the new Challenger with a 6-speed manual is going to be sweet.

The Camaro is due back.... the new Mustang Cobra is going to be sweet.... so really, as far as I am concered... as always, the Honda is not a treat, there are SO many more cars I would rather own then a new NSX, even if it was V8 powered.

Elvis
12-20-05, 01:25 PM
I've owned three Accord Coupes. They have all been great cars. My wife drives a '91 Acura Legend. I call it the Crapura. It didn't even have 80k miles on it before the tranny, ABS, etc all went bad. It has electrical problems, too. I was surprised by this knowing Honda's quality. I owned an Accord that was older than this car and better so it wasn't just an age thing. That car has been a disappointment.



1991 was a horrible year for the Legend. It was the first year of a redesign. I had a 1990 Legend that I still say was the best car I ever owned.

The people I've known who had 1994-95 Legends feel the same way I did about my 1990.

DBA-One
12-20-05, 01:37 PM
I do know it was a completley different car from the first gen. I've talked to many members of an Acura board who have had none of the problems my car has. Perhaps I just got a bad one? Regardless, I've now been scared away from these high-end, feature packed cars. Burn me once...

Between reverse not working when the car is warm, the ABS problem, it needs a valve job, etc we are talking about thousands of dollars and the car isn't worth it anymore. I'll never buy another. I should have bought a Lexus, or better yet a Caddy!

ben72227
12-20-05, 01:39 PM
If you're gonna base your entire opinion of american cars' "lack of reliability" on your experience with one of the worst engines of all time, then you need to some help. But I know you have more common sense than to base your entire "hatred" of GM on the 350 diesel.

I don't "hate" GM. If I hated GM, I would have bought a Lincoln, not a Cadillac:thumbsup:. I'm a fan of GM, but I do "hate" certain aspects of GM - the management that brought it to its knees, the UAW employees who demand WAY too much money, etc. Even today, the management is still stupid. I mean, for 2007, they should have been focusing on their CARs, maybe make a hybrid or two, but they should have overhauled their cars. Redesign the Monte Carlo, the Malibu, the Cobalt, Grand Prix, whatever.

But what do they do? WHen gas prices are at their highest, GM announces that their entire '07 line will consist of almost all BRAND NEW SUVs. Obviously GM didn't get the message that the SUV phase is over. Not only are these SUVs coming out at the wrong time, but some of them look WORSE than their previous models (i.e. the Escalade).

Rather than bring out what consumers ACTUALLY want (a Camaro):thumbsup:, GM completely dropped the ball.:rolleyes:


Is that the infamous gas conversion diesel engine?

Yup!

Wrong! The 350 Diesel Is not a converted Gas engine..it is a completly different block..It isn't a gas engine with different heads or a gas engine sleeved, etc etc..There was no gas Oldsmobile engine sharing the same block. The Diesel block is specific to the diesel, it is a heftier, more solid block with stronger mains and a port in the valley for the injection pump adapter. The block is cast with a high nickle content. The 350 Diesel is not a converted gas block but can however be converted into a gas engine.


I think a certain person really needs to leave this place already....

atleast so I, or any of us actually interested in GM don't have to hear this crap.

spread your opinion on someone who cares, Trollboy!:bigroll:

As for Rick and Randy, crawl out from under your rock already. In the real world, not everybody is going to have the same opinion as you. Get over it.

As Sal once said:


I didn't want this to be a Cadillac parade. It was meant to become a platform for "constructive" criticism, as well as a place to hand out kudos when they're due.. Like Katshot mentioned, it's difficult to improve on a product without constructive criticism...

Kev
12-20-05, 01:55 PM
** A Casual Social Studies Lesson **

I think that one of the biggest problems in this situation is perception. There has been for quite a few generations, decades really, well, in fact, from the beginning of our nation, a great prejudice against America in general.

Few, if any, other nations wanted us to succeed really, and when we did there was obvious jealousy. As we have grown and progressed to become leaders in the free world those feelings have not changed and now they are beginning to effect our own people.

This started building in the 60's and has become stronger and more popular in the subsequent decades. It's popular, cool, hip to be anti- government, anti-establishment, anti-corporation, anti-union, anti-American. This is affecting our economy and business more and more.

Add to that the cheap imports of all sorts, we want to save as much money on things we need so that we can spend more on things we want. We are quickly loosing sight of the fact that we are no longer supporting our own economy, we are building that of China, Taiwan, South Korea and of course Japan not to mention European countries.

There is a great deal of prejudice that our Auto manufacturers have to overcome now. As DBA said, there are lots of great cars built here, it's just a matter of getting people to open their minds and eyes to that fact.

** End of Social Studies Lesson **

Kev
12-20-05, 02:04 PM
I believe this thread has run it's course in usefulness so I am going to close it.